Not By Works
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Thank you, that's constructive. I will re-read Galatians 5 again.
Calvin blah blah blah!
What is the point in going on about that?
Doesn't The Bible make it clear in [I think] Romans Chapters 6 & 7 that we have NO LICENCE TO SIN?
How many people are actually arguing against that?
Are the people posting here stating that they have a right to go on sinning on purpose?
I don't see that. Obviously THAT would be wrong & unacceptable. People here seem to want to do good works don't they?
It's just that they know it's not the works that save them.
Calvin blah blah blah!
What is the point in going on about that?
Doesn't The Bible make it clear in [I think] Romans Chapters 6 & 7 that we have NO LICENCE TO SIN?
How many people are actually arguing against that?
Are the people posting here stating that they have a right to go on sinning on purpose?
I don't see that. Obviously THAT would be wrong & unacceptable. People here seem to want to do good works don't they?
It's just that they know it's not the works that save them.
R
He endured to the end.
A short way to the end for him, but a terrible one. He resisted sin and endured and overcame. That is what is required of saved people, or else they are not saved.
But you are being taught that if have to endure to the end that's you trying to earn your salvation, not knowing that enduring to the end is the SIGN of your faith in Christ in salvation.
It is being taught in the new eternal security doctrine that your sin shows you are not trying to save yourself, and so you are saved because of that. And that if you have to be obedient to be saved that is you trying to save yourself. So your disobedience shows you are not trying to earn your salvation and so you are indeed saved.
This teaching ignores the words of Jesus that say the one who is disobedient is the one who will be rejected when he comes back, not just the ones who thought their works of ministerial service were going to make it good with Jesus-Matthew 7.
You yourself said you are of the doctrinal persuasion that, whether you realize it or not, teaches this, but which we can not discuss. You probably don't know that this doctrine teaches all this. Of course they deny that they teach this. Just as many of you are doing in this thread.
A short way to the end for him, but a terrible one. He resisted sin and endured and overcame. That is what is required of saved people, or else they are not saved.
But you are being taught that if have to endure to the end that's you trying to earn your salvation, not knowing that enduring to the end is the SIGN of your faith in Christ in salvation.
It is being taught in the new eternal security doctrine that your sin shows you are not trying to save yourself, and so you are saved because of that. And that if you have to be obedient to be saved that is you trying to save yourself. So your disobedience shows you are not trying to earn your salvation and so you are indeed saved.
This teaching ignores the words of Jesus that say the one who is disobedient is the one who will be rejected when he comes back, not just the ones who thought their works of ministerial service were going to make it good with Jesus-Matthew 7.
You yourself said you are of the doctrinal persuasion that, whether you realize it or not, teaches this, but which we can not discuss. You probably don't know that this doctrine teaches all this. Of course they deny that they teach this. Just as many of you are doing in this thread.
R
I did not say works retain salvation. I'm saying what the Bible says, they are the SIGN of salvation. Without which you will not be saved, because not having them shows you are not saved. That makes works required to be saved when Jesus comes back. They are what accompanies true salvation-Hebrews 6:9-10.
People will say they believe this but then they will say in another post you do not need to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. I'm uncovering this double mindedness in the church today. and how it's being used to excuse living in sin.
People will say they believe this but then they will say in another post you do not need to have works to be saved when Jesus comes back. I'm uncovering this double mindedness in the church today. and how it's being used to excuse living in sin.
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R
It's not a numeical number. It's a pattern of growth. An increasing measure of the qualities of the Spirit in a person-2 Peter 5-11 (note vs. 8). That is what shows you are saved and will not go in the furnace when Jesus comes back. 'Living in' sin is hardly a pattern of growth in a saving relationship with Christ. But many defend it as being saved nonetheless.
R
That question has been asked many times.....still waiting for the magic number
Maybe you will get an answer...I will be waiting
Maybe you will get an answer...I will be waiting
Do not say you cannot abstain from sin,for by the Spirit you can,and sin does not affect your relationship with God,for it does and there is no excuse because you have the power to abstain from sin,if you hate sin,and do not want sin,and God blesses with money,and material things for your wants,because He does not,having food and clothing be content.
And all this is biblical.
Charity is greater than faith,and faith works through love,and love does not think an evil thought,does not sin,and only goes by their needs,and helps the poor and needy if possible.
This is what seals the saints that they depart from iniquity,and Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but some have not the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.
Have the attitude you can abstain from sin because the Spirit is given,and hate sin,and do not want sin,and sin does affect your relationship with God,and to go by your needs,and stop enjoying money and material things for your lusts.
For your position will be better,and pleasing to God,and it will cut down on much hypocrisy of people claiming to be with Christ,and you will understand the Bible better.
2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.
Because the ministry is being blamed because of people's hypocrisy that think they are alright with God while holding unto sin,and enjoying money and material things above their needs while there is people that need food and clothing.
And do we see that a lot among them.
And all this is biblical.
Charity is greater than faith,and faith works through love,and love does not think an evil thought,does not sin,and only goes by their needs,and helps the poor and needy if possible.
This is what seals the saints that they depart from iniquity,and Paul said awake to righteousness,and sin not,but some have not the knowledge of God,and he speaks that to their shame.
Have the attitude you can abstain from sin because the Spirit is given,and hate sin,and do not want sin,and sin does affect your relationship with God,and to go by your needs,and stop enjoying money and material things for your lusts.
For your position will be better,and pleasing to God,and it will cut down on much hypocrisy of people claiming to be with Christ,and you will understand the Bible better.
2Co 6:3 Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed.
Because the ministry is being blamed because of people's hypocrisy that think they are alright with God while holding unto sin,and enjoying money and material things above their needs while there is people that need food and clothing.
And do we see that a lot among them.
So, God judges by a sliding scale?
And just how many sins does one have to commit a day to be "living" in them? 5? 10? 20?
You do realize our works are simply meant to justify us in the sight of men, they do not justify us in the sight of God because Jesus satisfied all of the requirements to save us, and to keep us saved. That's why He gets all the glory - not us.
And just how many sins does one have to commit a day to be "living" in them? 5? 10? 20?
You do realize our works are simply meant to justify us in the sight of men, they do not justify us in the sight of God because Jesus satisfied all of the requirements to save us, and to keep us saved. That's why He gets all the glory - not us.
R
As you now see I answered this right from the Bible.
The problem is Christians think they can live in their old lives and they are saved nonetheless because salvation is not by works. They don't seem to realize, or ignore, the fact that the Bible says that the person who is doing that is not saved. Need references, or do you already know them?
The problem is Christians think they can live in their old lives and they are saved nonetheless because salvation is not by works. They don't seem to realize, or ignore, the fact that the Bible says that the person who is doing that is not saved. Need references, or do you already know them?
R
Do you click into porn without a thought and have just accepted it as the sin the Christian is doomed to live in? If so, you may well be showing you aren't even born again to begin with.
Prove to yourself that you are born again and have the Spirit of God in you.....turn off the porn and resist it in the power of the Spirit. If you can't do that then you are not born again. Examine yourself this way. They if you see that you do not know Christ at all in salvation, your slavery to sin being the evidence of that, you can stop playing lip service games and get saved.
Plug any other sin in place of 'porn' in the above and you'll understand the point.
Prove to yourself that you are born again and have the Spirit of God in you.....turn off the porn and resist it in the power of the Spirit. If you can't do that then you are not born again. Examine yourself this way. They if you see that you do not know Christ at all in salvation, your slavery to sin being the evidence of that, you can stop playing lip service games and get saved.
Plug any other sin in place of 'porn' in the above and you'll understand the point.
R
Happy New Year Ralphy!
R
Yes, but I'm not living in it in slavery as a way of life-Galatians 5:21, 1 John 6:9-10, Ephesians 5:5, 1 John 3:6-10. Are you? If you are, you are not born again and you are not going to inherit the kingdom when Jesus comes back.
So how bout it? Are you living the life in the passages above? If you are and you think grace makes it so you'll still be saved anyway you are deceived. The evidence of grace is that you are NOT living like that. Grace was given to deliver us from sin, not make is so we can live in it and still be saved.
So how bout it? Are you living the life in the passages above? If you are and you think grace makes it so you'll still be saved anyway you are deceived. The evidence of grace is that you are NOT living like that. Grace was given to deliver us from sin, not make is so we can live in it and still be saved.
