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T
I personally do not know if a woman's clothing necessarily EVER causes a man to lust after her...I do not think they are paying that much attention to it if they have lust in their hearts...kind of kidding...anyway, I think beautiful women can hide what they look like that well anyway--so those who are going to lust will lust no matter what, and those that won't, won't...
I once worked in a water park where I was surrounded by scantily clothed women 11 hours a day...And even then I think it was all about where your spirit and mind were...If I started examining their bodies, even if a women is fully 'modestly' clothed this happens, I felt my heart and mind going astray...But when I focused on God in everything--I looked into their eyes (which yes can be the most seductive part) and was not led astray and could commune with them no matter what...
I am a guy and when I was young there were devout Christians who believed that guys should not take off their shirts in any circumstance as not to lead women astray...and when I remembered them for a long time I never did, I went out and bought a surf shirt to wear while swimming...and I was constantly making sure I was fully clothed...but then I realized how futile it is to try and stop other people's lust...and when you are focused on that, you are already led astray...for you yourself are not focused on the Lord alone...
It is the same with women..especially when they are in bathing suits...though at times I think what they wear is as rediculuos as a guy wearing a speedo... Can women not expect or want in their deceptive hearts lust and other things thrown at them?
But what if the women is not focused on that whatsoever??? What if she is focused on the Lord and not caring about what she is wearing? If you get overly concerned with sinning in clothing you'll drown in it...
It is your lust that causes your sin (what arises from your heart and not their clothing). Though yes women and men are suppose to dress modestly...(whatever that means)
I saw on Oprah? that a lot of muslim women think that completely covering themselves actually leads more people to sexually be attracted to them...food for thought?
And its not just short skirts that you can accuse women of wearing---its spandex pants, with extreme low rise features...And it is hard or near impossible (maybe) for women not to get pants that do not touch their legs everywhere basically showing every feature of their lower body even in winter...
And for the actual thread: it is obvious to any man when he crosses the line...It is not that you can't look at their bodies, but when you start you have to wonder what are you looking for? And watch where your thoughts then lead you, by then you probably are not focused on what you are talking about, much less the Lord, so yes you have probably gone astray...
But yes, Jesus' words are often even told in parables so they can be tricky...
I do think there can be lust in an ungodly marriage...I even think non-Christians can lead people who once were Christians? or seeking God into a relationship that ends in a sham "marriage" that causes the once seeker to forsake the Lord and focus just on sex or raising ungodly children...
Within a Christian marriage, I am reminded of what an early 'dessert church father' said, "Can you not get drunk on the wine in your own cup?" Where else would you expect to get drunk? And we all see other relationships that have two people lusting after (perhaps thinking they love) each other before marriage, and it is still wrong even if it ends in marriage...I would even say it is a sin for two people to constantly be living in lust (even just two) and disregarding the Lord and His will...I think Paul is talking about a 'sexual attraction' that can be there between a male and a female that Christians can be too weak to control, so yes marriage can give that feeling authenticy and legetimize it...but sometimes I wonder why we havve sexual feelings whatsoever; are they wrong in themselves? I am reminded of Paul or Jesus (I forget which) saying do the Father's will and stop worrying about how your natural desires will be fulfilled...
Can a married man or women experience 'sexual attraction' for someone else and it not be considered 'lust'? I doubt it...which leads me to think they may be the same thing.
And I note on David: I think it would be hard for any guy not to feel something seeing a beautiful girl 'bathing'--though I do feel he was close enough to God that He did not have to just follow his sinful desires...To me, God does something like--if I saw something like that--I am given the choice to continue looking (and have my eyes opened in the way Eve's were to sin) or to clost them and pray and forget it...
Was it Bethsaida's fault for bathing on a roof top? I do not think anyone would say that even though the girl was probably naked, that it was David's evil heart that led him to murder and adultry...
God bless and guard your hearts in the LORD.
tony
I once worked in a water park where I was surrounded by scantily clothed women 11 hours a day...And even then I think it was all about where your spirit and mind were...If I started examining their bodies, even if a women is fully 'modestly' clothed this happens, I felt my heart and mind going astray...But when I focused on God in everything--I looked into their eyes (which yes can be the most seductive part) and was not led astray and could commune with them no matter what...
I am a guy and when I was young there were devout Christians who believed that guys should not take off their shirts in any circumstance as not to lead women astray...and when I remembered them for a long time I never did, I went out and bought a surf shirt to wear while swimming...and I was constantly making sure I was fully clothed...but then I realized how futile it is to try and stop other people's lust...and when you are focused on that, you are already led astray...for you yourself are not focused on the Lord alone...
It is the same with women..especially when they are in bathing suits...though at times I think what they wear is as rediculuos as a guy wearing a speedo... Can women not expect or want in their deceptive hearts lust and other things thrown at them?
But what if the women is not focused on that whatsoever??? What if she is focused on the Lord and not caring about what she is wearing? If you get overly concerned with sinning in clothing you'll drown in it...
It is your lust that causes your sin (what arises from your heart and not their clothing). Though yes women and men are suppose to dress modestly...(whatever that means)
I saw on Oprah? that a lot of muslim women think that completely covering themselves actually leads more people to sexually be attracted to them...food for thought?
And its not just short skirts that you can accuse women of wearing---its spandex pants, with extreme low rise features...And it is hard or near impossible (maybe) for women not to get pants that do not touch their legs everywhere basically showing every feature of their lower body even in winter...
And for the actual thread: it is obvious to any man when he crosses the line...It is not that you can't look at their bodies, but when you start you have to wonder what are you looking for? And watch where your thoughts then lead you, by then you probably are not focused on what you are talking about, much less the Lord, so yes you have probably gone astray...
But yes, Jesus' words are often even told in parables so they can be tricky...
I do think there can be lust in an ungodly marriage...I even think non-Christians can lead people who once were Christians? or seeking God into a relationship that ends in a sham "marriage" that causes the once seeker to forsake the Lord and focus just on sex or raising ungodly children...
Within a Christian marriage, I am reminded of what an early 'dessert church father' said, "Can you not get drunk on the wine in your own cup?" Where else would you expect to get drunk? And we all see other relationships that have two people lusting after (perhaps thinking they love) each other before marriage, and it is still wrong even if it ends in marriage...I would even say it is a sin for two people to constantly be living in lust (even just two) and disregarding the Lord and His will...I think Paul is talking about a 'sexual attraction' that can be there between a male and a female that Christians can be too weak to control, so yes marriage can give that feeling authenticy and legetimize it...but sometimes I wonder why we havve sexual feelings whatsoever; are they wrong in themselves? I am reminded of Paul or Jesus (I forget which) saying do the Father's will and stop worrying about how your natural desires will be fulfilled...
Can a married man or women experience 'sexual attraction' for someone else and it not be considered 'lust'? I doubt it...which leads me to think they may be the same thing.
And I note on David: I think it would be hard for any guy not to feel something seeing a beautiful girl 'bathing'--though I do feel he was close enough to God that He did not have to just follow his sinful desires...To me, God does something like--if I saw something like that--I am given the choice to continue looking (and have my eyes opened in the way Eve's were to sin) or to clost them and pray and forget it...
Was it Bethsaida's fault for bathing on a roof top? I do not think anyone would say that even though the girl was probably naked, that it was David's evil heart that led him to murder and adultry...
God bless and guard your hearts in the LORD.
tony
C
I think a great example is in the life of David. 2 Samuel Chapter 11. I don't think he sinned when he saw Bathsheba bathing on the rooftop, although, had he been fighting the battle like he was supposed to, he wouldn't have been put in the situation. I think the sin came when David "sent and enquired after the woman" in verse 3. That is where he started to think in his mind what carnal pleasures he could fulfill with her. Also, David has her husband, Uriah the Hittite, killed, and as a result, pays fourfold as told in chapter 12 in his own personal life. 1) His child by Bathsheba dies. 2)Amnon (David's son) rapes his sister Tamar. 3) Absalom kills his brother Amnon for what he done to his sister Tamar. 4) Absalom leads a rebellion against his father David and winds up getting killed. All of this can be traced back to his decision and actions with Bathsheba, because the prophet Nathan told him "the sword shall never depart from thine house" or his household would be filled with violence. A pretty stiff penalty for the pleasures of sin that lasted only a season, and the heartache that no doubt lasted the rest of his life.
R
Matthew 5:26 is a verse that I am, and have been, struggling to find what it really means. I have two issues with this verse.
Issue #1: The fact that the verse uses these two words: whoever and adultery. We know the only way to commit adultery is to have sexual relationship with another woman while you are already married to one. If it had said "any married man," then the issue would not exist 'cause it would have been clear that it is only referring to married people. But it did not and yet said "adultery." The fact that it says "adultery" (Greek word moicheuo) makes me think that it's only referring to married men and the whosoever means all married men.
Now, even if this was the case, I ask why wouldn't the same law apply to all men? I mean, fornication is clearly wrong. So if a married man can look at another woman lustfully and sin in his heart, then clearly if an unmarried man lustfully look at a woman lustfully, then likewise he is sinning in his heart as well. Though this is what I believe and live by, I still wonder why Jesus said whosoever.... adultery in his heart knowing that adultery only applies for married couples (even though he was talking about marriage in the previous verse).
Issue #2: What is lust? Lust is simply a desire. Lust is wrong when that desire is of something that is forbidden. God, in the OT, told the Israelites He would give them whatever their soul lusted after. However, James makes it clear that the lust in and of itself is not a sin unless and until it is conceived.
James 1:13-15 - 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
It seems here that the lust gives birth to temptation and when you do what you are lusting after, at that point you've sinned.
James 1:15 takes me to the verse in Galatians that says: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16 -KJV) - The NASB has it like this: But I say, (walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
It seems here, that the bible is saying the only way you will not give in (fulfil) to the lust of the flesh is to walk in the Spirit. The reverse of that verse would say without walking in the Spirit, you will give in to the desire of the flesh. Therefore, we understanding from this verse that that lust is not sinful until it is acted upon.
However, Matthew 5 also makes it quite clear that when you(married or not) look at a woman lustfully you've already sinned in your heart (sin of the heart).
Any thoughts?
Issue #1: The fact that the verse uses these two words: whoever and adultery. We know the only way to commit adultery is to have sexual relationship with another woman while you are already married to one. If it had said "any married man," then the issue would not exist 'cause it would have been clear that it is only referring to married people. But it did not and yet said "adultery." The fact that it says "adultery" (Greek word moicheuo) makes me think that it's only referring to married men and the whosoever means all married men.
Now, even if this was the case, I ask why wouldn't the same law apply to all men? I mean, fornication is clearly wrong. So if a married man can look at another woman lustfully and sin in his heart, then clearly if an unmarried man lustfully look at a woman lustfully, then likewise he is sinning in his heart as well. Though this is what I believe and live by, I still wonder why Jesus said whosoever.... adultery in his heart knowing that adultery only applies for married couples (even though he was talking about marriage in the previous verse).
Issue #2: What is lust? Lust is simply a desire. Lust is wrong when that desire is of something that is forbidden. God, in the OT, told the Israelites He would give them whatever their soul lusted after. However, James makes it clear that the lust in and of itself is not a sin unless and until it is conceived.
James 1:13-15 - 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
It seems here that the lust gives birth to temptation and when you do what you are lusting after, at that point you've sinned.
James 1:15 takes me to the verse in Galatians that says: This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh (Galatians 5:16 -KJV) - The NASB has it like this: But I say, (walk by the Spirit, and you will not carry out the desire of the flesh.
It seems here, that the bible is saying the only way you will not give in (fulfil) to the lust of the flesh is to walk in the Spirit. The reverse of that verse would say without walking in the Spirit, you will give in to the desire of the flesh. Therefore, we understanding from this verse that that lust is not sinful until it is acted upon.
However, Matthew 5 also makes it quite clear that when you(married or not) look at a woman lustfully you've already sinned in your heart (sin of the heart).
Any thoughts?
E
lusting is what gets alot of people in trouble, i left my marriage partly because of it , and especially when your young daughter has become a victim of this lusting problem, children become wronged, today lust has taking over the minds of preverts, disease is running rampant, i love and protect my children and myself, it hurts when is close at home , pray for me about this discussion.
Peace be to you
Bretherin when we fast from something, we desire that which we obstain from, especially if we fast for great periods of time.
If we fast from ice cream and we walk down a road with ice cream pallers we will crave that which we gave up.This is the Flesh.
After fasting for long periods of time you will fufill the verse paul speaks of,being content in any state we are in, with Gods help of coarse.
In romans7,Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.<-------------------We die with Jesus to Flesh
These chapter explains the actions of the flesh in all of us;http://www.kingjamesbible.com/B45C007.htm
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
In james,4
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
heb,5
sin dwelleth in us all,Ask for revelation on romans7,Remeber the Godhead here.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Love a friend in God
Bretherin when we fast from something, we desire that which we obstain from, especially if we fast for great periods of time.
If we fast from ice cream and we walk down a road with ice cream pallers we will crave that which we gave up.This is the Flesh.
After fasting for long periods of time you will fufill the verse paul speaks of,being content in any state we are in, with Gods help of coarse.
In romans7,Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.<-------------------We die with Jesus to Flesh
These chapter explains the actions of the flesh in all of us;http://www.kingjamesbible.com/B45C007.htm
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
In james,4
From whence come wars and fightings among you? come they not hence, even of your lusts that war in your members?Ye lust, and have not: ye kill, and desire to have, and cannot obtain: ye fight and war, yet ye have not, because ye ask not.Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume it upon your lusts.
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.
heb,5
sin dwelleth in us all,Ask for revelation on romans7,Remeber the Godhead here.
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.
Love a friend in God
I think that lust is so common people are becoming desensitized to it. If you do not look at a single lady, or for that matter, a single man, like you would look at your sister or brother, that is lust. I know cuz i struggle with this very issue, but thanks to the Lord ive become more and more sensitive to this sin. It is truly a shame and in my opinion an abomination when a lady is shows more than she should: "As a ring of gold in a swine's snout So is a beautiful woman who lacks discretion" Proverbs 11:22. Lust is always adultery in your heart regardless whether you are married or not. Jesus was not talking only about the married couples. It's exhausting even walking through a mall nowadays with all the advertisement and sensual images we are bombarded with. And even double-takes when it comes to people are lust unless you sincerely think you recognized your neighbor or some1.
Proverbs7
(She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)
With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Figure out who this woman is and you will find the answer to the scripture Matthew 5:28
Thankx be to God
Love a friend in God
(She is loud and stubborn; her feet abide not in her house:Now is she without, now in the streets, and lieth in wait at every corner.)
With her much fair speech she caused him to yield, with the flattering of her lips she forced him.He goeth after her straightway, as an ox goeth to the slaughter, or as a fool to the correction of the stocks;Till a dart strike through his liver; as a bird hasteth to the snare, and knoweth not that it is for his life.Hearken unto me now therefore, O ye children, and attend to the words of my mouth.Let not thine heart decline to her ways, go not astray in her paths.For she hath cast down many wounded: yea, many strong men have been slain by her.Her house is the way to hell, going down to the chambers of death.
Figure out who this woman is and you will find the answer to the scripture Matthew 5:28
Thankx be to God
Love a friend in God
I think what you have said here is very mature and shows what God has put in your heart. You seem to be talking about the attractiveness of a person from the opposite sex. Let me clarify a couple of things in the context of what you have said and let me know if I am misrepresenting you. If you lust after the opposite sex because of their attractive appearance, that would be considered impure. If you would want to have a relationship based on that attraction, it could also be considered impure. Am I right so far? If their appearance makes you feel unattractive because you have compared and measured yourself to them, would that also be considered impure or just unwise to do that?
There is nothing sinful or impure for a woman to look attractive and to keep herself that way. There are women that could look a lot more attractive if they did just a few things differently and would feel much better and confident about themselves and that is not sinful. Maybe it would take some professional advice to make that happen. It would always be better for a woman to look her best and be confident then do nothing and be insecure, self conscious or introspective. If she is adorned that way on the inside there is nothing wrong with showing it outwardly and that would be modest. I hope I have been sensative on this subject and forgive me if I have offended any.
There is nothing sinful or impure for a woman to look attractive and to keep herself that way. There are women that could look a lot more attractive if they did just a few things differently and would feel much better and confident about themselves and that is not sinful. Maybe it would take some professional advice to make that happen. It would always be better for a woman to look her best and be confident then do nothing and be insecure, self conscious or introspective. If she is adorned that way on the inside there is nothing wrong with showing it outwardly and that would be modest. I hope I have been sensative on this subject and forgive me if I have offended any.
Are we suppose to turn off our hormones or something? I don't get it. If lusting after women is wrong, why do christians tend to stay pure but get married early. Wouldn't that just be satisfying their lust with marriage....seems like a wrong reason to get married. They always quote Paul, about lusting and getting married early i forget where it is.
H
We as people in general look upon the outward apperance of others as to are they attractive or do they keep themselves up. I think Jesus himself said it best when he said it is written thou shalt not commit adultry.....but I say that who so ever looks upon a woman as to lay with her has already committed the very sin in their heart(Paraphased). So to merely ask God to simply help me to see others, including other women as he sees them....in which he looks on the heart.....Inward parts! So I believe it is fair to say that you can see something that is fair to the eyes and still not sin......to me it is the motives of the heart. I too have stuggled with and have also been forgiven of this very thing. And I have been married to my wife for going on 22 years this May 5th, and to me she is the most Beautiful Woman on earth because God has changed my heart.....and He could only change that part in which i turned over to him.
Greg
Greg
A
This is right. Someone above said one woman wearing certain clothing can send many men to hell.. However, I think that some (not all) men will lust no matter what. Personally, I don't wear clothes that are too tight or that I hang out of but I don't dress in a potato sack with a bag over my head either. Why should women not take care of themselves so that men can control their hormones?
I do understand what you are saying about some women taking it out of control though. Just turn on the TV and you will see Tila Tequila or Girls Gone Wild commercials. You just have to have the power within yourself to change the channel or if you walk by a girl who looks like that refrain from even looking back or letting it go any further in your mind.
Even I have had problems with my husbands friends and coworkers flirting with me and hitting on me when he's not around (and of course have turned them away) and even when he IS around and usually I've just been wearing a t-shirt and a pair of jeans. Nothing too revealing at all. Most of the time I wasn't even wearing any makeup. And I HAVEN'T flirted with them. I am friendly and think of others as my brothers and sisters in Christ (Christian or not, he loves us all and wants us to love eachother). Perhaps, even that amount of friendly can make someone think that there could be a chance? There is not though.
I have struggled with this a lot. Having a couple horrible experiences with men during my life that were undeserved on my part because they can't "help" themselves. If you ask me some men just don't try to control themselves.
So, I am not writing this to offend anyone.. But God made women beautiful to men for a reason. It's okay to appreciate beauty. That's why He made us attractive to eachother. So those of you who are just looking and not thinking much of it other than that they looked good. Personally, I don't think that you are in trouble of burning in the fire of Hell or even being in trouble with God.
But if you can't get it out of your mind and start thinking of things to do with them that you know aren't right.. You need to ask God to help you through it because that is lust.
I'm sorry if I offend anyone. That is not my intention.
C
Lust is not just 'a desire', it is overmastering desire, a passion that masters and overpowers all spiritual and intellectual desires, also descibed as being unbridled or lawless. Admiring the physical form of the opposite sex is not lust, neither is a token of appreciation for the appearence of another, that is not 'Lust', lust manifests itself in ways that are put beyond your self control overiding all other desire, a single-mindedness that is unstable and disrespectful to the one in who the lust is focused.
K
There is one desire that lust can not overcome. 
Fall in love with Jesus! Ask God for a personal revelation of everything Jesus did on the cross. I promise you, the desires of the flesh can not compare the the genuine and authentic love of the Father!
You can be delivered from lust. I am living proof!
Fall in love with Jesus! Ask God for a personal revelation of everything Jesus did on the cross. I promise you, the desires of the flesh can not compare the the genuine and authentic love of the Father!
You can be delivered from lust. I am living proof!
I will agree with you in once sense.... its is really hard to find clothes to wear now days that dont show off everything you got..... but to say that you cant is a cop out.......sounds like your kinda sayin women shouldnt worry about wearing modest stuff cause men are just gonna lust no matter what...... if im wrong about that please correct me, thats just the impression i got
Peace be to you
I like what you said here.Some people try hard to give all to the lord but we are not blind to a womans beauty.Sometimes my desire for one is so prevelant i can feel it on my breath;This usually happens right after i see one half nakid.I keep praying for relief and hoping age will take care of it for me.To the women who do dress modestly I do appreciate you.
Love a friend in God
I like what you said here.Some people try hard to give all to the lord but we are not blind to a womans beauty.Sometimes my desire for one is so prevelant i can feel it on my breath;This usually happens right after i see one half nakid.I keep praying for relief and hoping age will take care of it for me.To the women who do dress modestly I do appreciate you.
Love a friend in God
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