Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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R
Why are you insisting works, when you should be proclaiming the new life? The new life is how the fruit of the spirit and resulting works are accomplished.
As a new man we allow the fruit of the Spirit to be manifested in us and are set aside to do good works. We do those good works out of love for what Christ and he alone did for us on the cross.
As a new man we allow the fruit of the Spirit to be manifested in us and are set aside to do good works. We do those good works out of love for what Christ and he alone did for us on the cross.
R
I have not named names. You are all acting why I have. That's why I ask if you all are being convicted by what I'm saying.
The appeal of the gospel goes out to whoever has ears to hear. If you (anybody) see yourself in Galatians 5:19-21 you will not inherit the kingdom. You (anybody) can make excuses and rationalize why you're that way and insist you're saved despite what that and other passages says about you, or you can fall on the mercy of God and receive justification and receive power to become a new person. Then you'll be ready to meet Jesus when He comes back. Until then you (anybody to whom the passages cited applies) are not ready to meet Jesus. You will be destroyed, not saved when He returns.
The appeal of the gospel goes out to whoever has ears to hear. If you (anybody) see yourself in Galatians 5:19-21 you will not inherit the kingdom. You (anybody) can make excuses and rationalize why you're that way and insist you're saved despite what that and other passages says about you, or you can fall on the mercy of God and receive justification and receive power to become a new person. Then you'll be ready to meet Jesus when He comes back. Until then you (anybody to whom the passages cited applies) are not ready to meet Jesus. You will be destroyed, not saved when He returns.
E
I am not even sure the pharisees wrote them, They were written after the return from exile in Babylon, they basically took the law. And made rules to make the law harder to break.
Example - plowing on sabbath is a sin, Well we will take it further, do not pull a chair on the sabbath. Ie, make the law so hard to break, it is next to impossible.
the heart was in the right area if you think of religion, churches do this all the time.
What they failed to understand was Gods grace. And we really obey God. WHich jesus had to show us, because they never got it. (Most did not get it)
R
No, no, no! BECAUSE you have God's grace. BECAUSE! You are not hearing what is being said.
Because you have God's grace and do righteous work as a result, it follows that if you have dead faith when Jesus comes back you show that you do not have God's grace by faith.
THAT is the message that will save people from hell. Not this PC garbage that is afraid to make people see what they are and what they are not.
Because you have God's grace and do righteous work as a result, it follows that if you have dead faith when Jesus comes back you show that you do not have God's grace by faith.
THAT is the message that will save people from hell. Not this PC garbage that is afraid to make people see what they are and what they are not.
N
well you have named names with many of your false accusations and you were speaking of the "church" having dead faith
i was making sure you stopped accusing EG of not "letting his light shine" and me being void of growth from the Holy spirit
sorry if i assumed wrongly that you were pointing that last accusation at someone here ralph
i was making sure you stopped accusing EG of not "letting his light shine" and me being void of growth from the Holy spirit
sorry if i assumed wrongly that you were pointing that last accusation at someone here ralph
I still can’t do the multiple quote thing, so I’m probably not going to hit every verse you posted. I’m just going to try and summarize my thoughts.
I really can’t see anywhere that they were actually breaking the Law as to how it was written, the Letter of the Law, or outward appearance, but they were breaking it through the inward man and the spirit in which it was intended.
They took pride and felt justified in obeying it by the written words of it… not because they loved God or had respect unto his ways… it was just for show. They even added laws to it to ensure that they were keeping it, and in doing so they did add grievous burdens on others… which they enjoyed…because they did not have any love for others.
They didn’t understand the spiritual aspect of the Law, so yes, they did always resist the Holy Ghost and did always err…this doesn’t mean they weren’t keeping the Law as written, but they were using it for their own benefit and erring in their heart and in the spirit in which it was given.
They were all about keeping the Law, but they weren’t righteous because they did it for their own reasons not of God. They twisted it around to fit their own needs, yet they still kept it. They believed that you should not steal. So I’m sure they didn’t go around robbing folks openly so they kept that Law…well, so they thought…but when they were selling at the temple Jesus told them that they had made His Father’s house a den of thieves…By the written Law they weren’t breaking any commandments because they weren’t actually stealing from anyone…but by the Spirit and to God they were stealing because they were taking advantage of others.
In Matthew 5 Jesus is explaining this to them…When he goes into what the Law says and then adds the deeper or spiritual meaning behind it. In example, you shall not kill…but I say unto anyone that is angry at his brother without a cause he shall be in danger of the judgement, etc.
So I think that is why Paul said according to the righteousness of the Law he was blameless. He was talking about the written Law. He followed it by the words of it, but not the spirit in which it was given. Just my thoughts on it…
God bless you…
I really can’t see anywhere that they were actually breaking the Law as to how it was written, the Letter of the Law, or outward appearance, but they were breaking it through the inward man and the spirit in which it was intended.
They took pride and felt justified in obeying it by the written words of it… not because they loved God or had respect unto his ways… it was just for show. They even added laws to it to ensure that they were keeping it, and in doing so they did add grievous burdens on others… which they enjoyed…because they did not have any love for others.
They didn’t understand the spiritual aspect of the Law, so yes, they did always resist the Holy Ghost and did always err…this doesn’t mean they weren’t keeping the Law as written, but they were using it for their own benefit and erring in their heart and in the spirit in which it was given.
They were all about keeping the Law, but they weren’t righteous because they did it for their own reasons not of God. They twisted it around to fit their own needs, yet they still kept it. They believed that you should not steal. So I’m sure they didn’t go around robbing folks openly so they kept that Law…well, so they thought…but when they were selling at the temple Jesus told them that they had made His Father’s house a den of thieves…By the written Law they weren’t breaking any commandments because they weren’t actually stealing from anyone…but by the Spirit and to God they were stealing because they were taking advantage of others.
In Matthew 5 Jesus is explaining this to them…When he goes into what the Law says and then adds the deeper or spiritual meaning behind it. In example, you shall not kill…but I say unto anyone that is angry at his brother without a cause he shall be in danger of the judgement, etc.
So I think that is why Paul said according to the righteousness of the Law he was blameless. He was talking about the written Law. He followed it by the words of it, but not the spirit in which it was given. Just my thoughts on it…
God bless you…
I haven't the slightest idea of what you are saying here. Mountains are problems in life. We take the Word in our mouth that is spoken in scripture and shown to us personally as the sword we wield over what comes against us to destroy.
Guard our hearts by the breastplate of truth. Loins girded with His righteousness. There is our battle, there is our work. Not of self, all being outnofbour position in Him.
Dont tell me now that one won't battle. Holy Spirit won't let us dwell in the valleys forever. Chastening through His Word and Spirit is not like our parents paddling. It is His love in truth revealed that breaks stubbornness. Not your reprimands Ralph.
Your ways are not His. And you aren't the only one that falls into this darkness of trying to control the actions of others. That is what you are doing. It's not our job.
If you desire change in another? Pray. Pray rightly though with love and hope for the best. And desire even for your enemies. Even to excel your walk in Spirit, for that is correct to desire others advancement, but criticism is not the Lord.
Guard our hearts by the breastplate of truth. Loins girded with His righteousness. There is our battle, there is our work. Not of self, all being outnofbour position in Him.
Dont tell me now that one won't battle. Holy Spirit won't let us dwell in the valleys forever. Chastening through His Word and Spirit is not like our parents paddling. It is His love in truth revealed that breaks stubbornness. Not your reprimands Ralph.
Your ways are not His. And you aren't the only one that falls into this darkness of trying to control the actions of others. That is what you are doing. It's not our job.
If you desire change in another? Pray. Pray rightly though with love and hope for the best. And desire even for your enemies. Even to excel your walk in Spirit, for that is correct to desire others advancement, but criticism is not the Lord.
I posted that as what many people, churches, denominations , teach and believe. I do not believe that. I believe what Paul said- by grace, through faith, for good works.
might want to read the entire post, not just 2 sentences. just like it is better to read the whole Bible, not the same verses over and over.
might want to read the entire post, not just 2 sentences. just like it is better to read the whole Bible, not the same verses over and over.
Faith alone,not saved by works,when we confess Christ for that is all we can do for we have not received the Spirit yet.
When we receive the Spirit then faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for we are now spiritual doing works of love by the Spirit,and if we lack those works intentionally then our faith lacks.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,so lack in love,lack in faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love,and it is not faith alone,it is love alone,and everything stems from love.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast(fleshy works trying to gain favor with God,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone when they receive the Spirit).
We are saved by grace through faith,so if we lack in love,we lack in faith,we lack in grace.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have love then he is nothing,for faith means nothing with out love,and this love is to love all people,even our enemies,which feed and clothe your enemies,and bless them,and pray for them,and help the poor and needy,and love is not arrogant,not selfish,and not unkind.
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material things,their wants): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy and God's kingdom is love,and they have erred from the faith.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James said that if a person does not have charity then their faith is dead.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
John said if they do not have charity the love of God does not dwell in them.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love is the fulfilling of the law,and love thy neighbor as yourself,so you should want people to prosper as you do,and be fed and clothed such as yourself,and God said He wants equality among the saints,not blessing one more than another,and only blessing them with their needs,not their wants.
Lack in love,lack in faith,lack in grace,and the Bible warns against it so some do lack love.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
It is obvious that some can lack love,and they have been saved for Jesus told them they were fallen,and to repent of their lack of works based on love.
We see many people that lack in love by their lifestyle thinking selfish,and not loving their neighbor thinking they are alright with God,but if they lack in love,then they lack in faith.
Faith without works is dead,and we are justified by works,and not faith alone,for love matters in our salvation for love is the fulfilling of the law,so to lack in those works of love not caring about the welfare of others,and being selfish,then our faith lacks.
When we receive the Spirit then faith without works is dead,and a person is justified by works,and not faith alone,for we are now spiritual doing works of love by the Spirit,and if we lack those works intentionally then our faith lacks.
1Co 13:13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Charity,love in action,is greater than faith,so lack in love,lack in faith.
Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
Faith works by love,and it is not faith alone,it is love alone,and everything stems from love.
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast(fleshy works trying to gain favor with God,for a person is justified by works,and not faith alone when they receive the Spirit).
We are saved by grace through faith,so if we lack in love,we lack in faith,we lack in grace.
1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
Paul said he could have all faith so that he could remove mountains,but if he did not have love then he is nothing,for faith means nothing with out love,and this love is to love all people,even our enemies,which feed and clothe your enemies,and bless them,and pray for them,and help the poor and needy,and love is not arrogant,not selfish,and not unkind.
1Ti 6:4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings,
1Ti 6:5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness(money,material things,their wants): from such withdraw thyself.
1Ti 6:8 And having food and raiment let us be therewith content.
1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
The love of money is the root of all evil for it neglects the poor and needy and God's kingdom is love,and they have erred from the faith.
Jas 2:14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
Jas 2:15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
Jas 2:16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Jas 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
James said that if a person does not have charity then their faith is dead.
1Jn 3:17 But whoso hath this world's good, and seeth his brother have need, and shutteth up his bowels of compassion from him, how dwelleth the love of God in him?
1Jn 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
John said if they do not have charity the love of God does not dwell in them.
Rom 13:10 Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.
Gal 5:14 For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Love is the fulfilling of the law,and love thy neighbor as yourself,so you should want people to prosper as you do,and be fed and clothed such as yourself,and God said He wants equality among the saints,not blessing one more than another,and only blessing them with their needs,not their wants.
Lack in love,lack in faith,lack in grace,and the Bible warns against it so some do lack love.
Rev 2:4 Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
Rev 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
Rev 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God.
Rev 3:3 Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.
It is obvious that some can lack love,and they have been saved for Jesus told them they were fallen,and to repent of their lack of works based on love.
We see many people that lack in love by their lifestyle thinking selfish,and not loving their neighbor thinking they are alright with God,but if they lack in love,then they lack in faith.
Faith without works is dead,and we are justified by works,and not faith alone,for love matters in our salvation for love is the fulfilling of the law,so to lack in those works of love not caring about the welfare of others,and being selfish,then our faith lacks.