“Born of water...” -- exactly what does it mean?
- Thread starter Nehemiah6
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John the Baptist proclaimed:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptise you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptise you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire:
(NOTE: John Baptises with water. The coming Messiah will Baptise with the Holy Spirit & with fire)
Matt 3:11 & Luke 3:16, The baptism into Christ's body via the Holy Spirit. Is a covenant of spiritual circumcision, done without hands and without water.
Col 2:11 In whom also ye are circumcised with the circumcision "made without hands", in putting off the body of the sins of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ:
(NOTE: A circumcision "made without hands")
NOTE: Translators Capitalized Spirit in the beginning & end of the vs. signifying deity/Godhead.
1 Cor 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
(NOTE: Baptised by ONE SPIRIT the HOLY SPIRIT. Into one body The Body of Christ. And no water is used)
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism
Deut 30:6 (A) The LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart
Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter (NOTE: Believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit. A circumcision done without hands & without water)
And that was an obvious misunderstanding. So the Lord had to set him straight, by saying "That which is born of the flesh is flesh" -- and we do not need to discuss it. To paraphrase Christ, "The physical birth is the physical birth, and there is no returning to the womb, or discussing that which is a given. All human beings are born from their mother's wombs. But we are talking about spiritual things".
Correct...It seems to be a clear reference to the water of separation;
num19
[FONT="]9 And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the Lord: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.[/FONT]
num19
[FONT="]9 And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.[/FONT]
[FONT="]10 And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.[/FONT]
[FONT="]11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT="]12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT="]15 And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]16 And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.[/FONT]
[FONT="]17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel:[/FONT]
[FONT="]18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.[/FONT]
[FONT="]20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the Lord: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.[/FONT]
[FONT="]21 And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even.[/FONT]
[FONT="]22 And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.[/FONT]
How could "the water of separation" which belongs to the Old Covenant have any bearing on the "water" which enables a person to be born again under the New Covenant?
So, the water that is mentioned in the New Covenant is a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel).
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. (1 Pet 1:23-25)
So, the water that is mentioned in the New Covenant is a metaphor for the Word of God (the Gospel).
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:
25 But the word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the word which by the gospel is preached unto you. (1 Pet 1:23-25)
I would offer the water of separation is the separation of the Holy Spirit, as the source of mercy .He who is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases has mercy on who he has mercy in that way.
Water represents the Holy Spirit in both testaments. The water of the word is used in the washing and renewing of the Spirit as the doctrines of God . It comes along with daily bread quenching our thirst for the hearing of faith.
Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: .
Interestingly dew ( my speech shall distil as the dew) is used as a foundation to bring the kind of food the disciples knew not of (the will of the father) called Manna which literally means... “What is it” .to help us understand it is a thought of God not seen not something we are familiar with. False familiarity with the Jews caused contempt, hatred and caused the Jew to crucify Christ. The things of God and those of men must be separated.
.
And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host. And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.Exo 16:13
Strongs lexicion 04478 man {mawn} from 04100; TWOT - 1208,1209; n m
AV - manna 14; 14
1) manna 1a) the bread from Heaven that fed the Israelites for 40 years of wilderness wanderings 1b) means 'What is it?'
Reminded me of the hidden Manna (hidden in parables) used to reveal the spiritual understanding in respect to the gospel .
Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
In one way a person could say as the water of the word gives us ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to us the churches.(gets the hard wax out). It is that water of the word , the good foundation of the incorruptible seed.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Water represents the Holy Spirit in both testaments. The water of the word is used in the washing and renewing of the Spirit as the doctrines of God . It comes along with daily bread quenching our thirst for the hearing of faith.
Deuteronomy 32:2 My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: .
Interestingly dew ( my speech shall distil as the dew) is used as a foundation to bring the kind of food the disciples knew not of (the will of the father) called Manna which literally means... “What is it” .to help us understand it is a thought of God not seen not something we are familiar with. False familiarity with the Jews caused contempt, hatred and caused the Jew to crucify Christ. The things of God and those of men must be separated.
.
And it came to pass, that at even the quails came up, and covered the camp: and in the morning the dew lay round about the host. And when the dew that lay was gone up, behold, upon the face of the wilderness there lay a small round thing, as small as the hoar frost on the ground.And when the children of Israel saw it, they said one to another, It is manna: for they wist not what it was. And Moses said unto them, This is the bread which the LORD hath given you to eat.Exo 16:13
Strongs lexicion 04478 man {mawn} from 04100; TWOT - 1208,1209; n m
AV - manna 14; 14
1) manna 1a) the bread from Heaven that fed the Israelites for 40 years of wilderness wanderings 1b) means 'What is it?'
Reminded me of the hidden Manna (hidden in parables) used to reveal the spiritual understanding in respect to the gospel .
Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
In one way a person could say as the water of the word gives us ear to hear what the Spirit is saying to us the churches.(gets the hard wax out). It is that water of the word , the good foundation of the incorruptible seed.
1Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Then why didn't Jesus simply say "water baptized" in John 3:5? That is your biased assumption. Jesus did say, "born of water and the Spirit" but He did not say born of baptism and the Spirit. To automatically read "baptism" into this verse simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted. Scripture interprets itself.
*Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and agent of cleansing the heart from sin. *Plain ordinary H20 has no power to do so.
If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.
*Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.
You need to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture and stop reading the Bible through the lens of your biased church doctrine/church of Christ indoctrination.
*Notice in John 7:38-39, "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of LIVING WATER. But this He spoke concerning the SPIRIT. *The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and agent of cleansing the heart from sin. *Plain ordinary H20 has no power to do so.
If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
In John 4:10, Jesus said, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." In John 4:14, Jesus said, "but whoever drinks of the water that I shall give him will never thirst. But the water that I shall give him will become in him a fountain of water springing up into everlasting life.
*Jesus connects this living water here with everlasting life. *Living water is not water baptism. In 1 Corinthians 12:13, we also read - ..drink into one Spirit.
You need to properly harmonize Scripture with Scripture and stop reading the Bible through the lens of your biased church doctrine/church of Christ indoctrination.
I go off of many scriptures, not just one. You and I have been round and round on this subject, so you know. We clearly disagree, respectfully. Each of us claim to have the truth in this matter- therefore at least one of us are wrong- therefore one of us are closed-minded. Saul (Paul) was well learned, in college so-to-speak. He was so confidently bold in the belief that he had the truth, that he put Christians to death for following Christ.
I am so glad he did not stay closed-minded. Through him most of the New Testament was written, after he seen and accepted the truth. Those who do not have eyes to see and ears to hear are those who refuse to look at what the scriptures clearly say, and someday they will be judged for that, but not by me.
I will just keep on being open-minded. So far no one has shown me a scripture that fits the puzzle of the big picture that I already see. Noah’s ark, the parting of the sea, the thousands who were saved by water baptism and added to Christ church daily, the many biblical meanings of baptism itself, and asking seeking and knocking for understanding through prayer, prove to me that I can have great confidence in the truth that has been presented to me. Yet my mind will always be open, and I will always consider every scripture someone gives me. So far no one has changed the truth as I see it.
"Must be water baptized in order to be saved" = salvation by works. (See Matthew 3:13-15; Titus 3:5). Jesus was baptized to "fulfill all righteousness" so water baptism is a "work of righteousness" and we are not saved by works of righteousness which we have done. We are saved by grace through faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8,9).
OXYMORON. We obey God by choosing to repent and believe the gospel in order to become saved (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21). Acts of obedience which "follow" such as water baptism are works and we are not saved by works and if we were saved by works, then that would add merit on our part to receiving salvation. You try to "shoe horn" baptism "into" salvation through faith, but the shoe does not fit.
The Bible also says "women will be saved through childbearing.." (1 Timothy 2:15). It's imperative to read the Bible IN CONTEXT and not simply cherry pick part of a verse and try to make it fit your preconceived ideas. 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that "baptism now saves you," *yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it.*
Peter says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).
We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." *By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.
So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal-to-God-for-good-conscience" which baptism symbolizes. Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.
If you read 1 Peter 3:21 IN CONTEXT you will find that Peter was not saying that we are literally saved by the mechanical act of being water baptized, but you simply isolate the words "baptism saves" and ignore the rest.
The Greek word "antitupon," as used in I Peter 3: 21, is "an adjective, used as a noun," and denotes, in the NT, "a corresponding type," being “said of baptism." "The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type," each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ.
It is not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the "corresponding type." Noah was saved by the ark "through (via) water." Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of "salvation." Their salvation was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
AFTER be believed and was saved. Acts 8:36 - Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
John 20:31 - John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
He is the source of living water that cleanses and saves. There is a "distinction" between water baptism and Spirit baptism (Matthew 3:11). Even in the OT we see that the Lord is the fountain of living water. Jeremiah 17:3 - O LORD, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You will be put to shame Those who turn away on earth will be written down, Because they have forsaken the fountain of living water, even the LORD. In Isaiah 12:3, we read - Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.
You are confusing the picture (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism). As Greek scholar AT Robertsons points out - A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality. During Spirit baptism (prior to receiving water baptism) believers are placed into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:3) and God performs circumcision of the heart not by human hands (Romans 2:29). You would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water as a result of your church of Christ indoctrination.
You contradicted yourself. The first question that must be answered is "when was Paul saved?" Paul tells that he did not receive or hear the gospel from Ananias, but rather he received it directly from Christ. Galatians 1:11-12 says, "For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ."
Paul had repented (Acts 9:6). "Lord, what will you have me to do?" Repentance means a "change of mind," and is wrought by the grace of God. Paul once persecuted the Lord (Acts 9:5), but is now ready to serve Him demonstrating the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Acts 26:20).
Paul had believed. He had Christ as his Lord (Acts 9:6). The Bible tells us that "no man can say that Jesus is Lord except "by" the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). Paul had, by the work of the Holy Spirit, submitted to Christ as Lord. Paul prayed (Acts 9:11). "Behold, he is praying," the Lord said to Ananias. This indicates that Paul's praying was pleasing to God. Church of Christ preachers teach that God does not hear an unsaved man's prayer, quoting in this regard John 9:31 - "We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will." Well, Paul was a worshipper of God, calling Christ "Lord" and ready to do His will. All of these things characterized Paul before he was water baptized.
So, Paul heard and believed in Christ on the road to Damascus. Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was before he was baptized (Acts 9:18). Acts 9 does not specifically tell us when Saul was filled with the Spirit, but verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. *We know that he received his sight prior to his water baptism.
It's also interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all. Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him. It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him and was not saved.
This "washing away of sin" in water baptism was only "formal" or symbolic. As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ.
I thoroughly explained what that verses means to mean IN HARMONY WITH THE REST OF SCRIPTURE. The gospel is not "water baptized or condemned." The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. To trust in "water and works" for salvation is to NOT believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" *Choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation is to obey the gospel.
Good day to you too.
OXYMORON. We obey God by choosing to repent and believe the gospel in order to become saved (Acts 11:17,18; 20:21). Acts of obedience which "follow" such as water baptism are works and we are not saved by works and if we were saved by works, then that would add merit on our part to receiving salvation. You try to "shoe horn" baptism "into" salvation through faith, but the shoe does not fit.
The Bible also says "women will be saved through childbearing.." (1 Timothy 2:15). It's imperative to read the Bible IN CONTEXT and not simply cherry pick part of a verse and try to make it fit your preconceived ideas. 1 Peter 3:21, Peter tells us that "baptism now saves you," *yet when Peter uses this phrase he continues in the same sentence to explain exactly what he means by it.*
Peter says that baptism now saves you-not the removal of dirt from the flesh (that is, not as an outward, physical act which washes dirt from the body--that is not what saves you), "but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of Jesus Christ" (that is, as an inward, spiritual transaction between God and the individual, a transaction that is symbolized by the outward ceremony of water baptism).
We could paraphrase Peter's statement by saying, "Baptism now saves you--not the outward physical ceremony of baptism but the inward spiritual reality which baptism represents." *By saying, "not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience-through the resurrection of Jesus Christ," Peter guards against saving power to the physical ceremony itself.
So in 1 Peter 3:21; it's not the water itself that saves us, but the "appeal-to-God-for-good-conscience" which baptism symbolizes. Just as the eight people in the ark were "saved THROUGH water" as they were IN THE ARK. They were not literally saved "by" the water. Hebrews 11:7 is clear on this point (..built an ARK for the SAVING of his household). *NOTE: The context reveals that ONLY the righteous (Noah and his family) were DRY and therefore SAFE. In contrast, ONLY THE WICKED IN NOAH'S DAY CAME IN CONTACT WITH THE WATER AND THEY ALL PERISHED.
If you read 1 Peter 3:21 IN CONTEXT you will find that Peter was not saying that we are literally saved by the mechanical act of being water baptized, but you simply isolate the words "baptism saves" and ignore the rest.
The Greek word "antitupon," as used in I Peter 3: 21, is "an adjective, used as a noun," and denotes, in the NT, "a corresponding type," being “said of baptism." "The circumstances of the flood, the ark and its occupants, formed a type, and baptism forms “a corresponding type," each setting forth the spiritual realities of the death, burial, and resurrection of believers in their identification with Christ.
It is not a case of type and antitype, but of two types, that in Genesis, the type, and baptism, the "corresponding type." Noah was saved by the ark "through (via) water." Water was not the means of their salvation, but the ark. The ark is what both delivered and preserved them, the two aspects of "salvation." Their salvation was typical of the salvation promised to the Christian. It pictured it. So also does Christian baptism picture the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
AFTER be believed and was saved. Acts 8:36 - Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God."
John 20:31 - John 20:31 - but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
He is the source of living water that cleanses and saves. There is a "distinction" between water baptism and Spirit baptism (Matthew 3:11). Even in the OT we see that the Lord is the fountain of living water. Jeremiah 17:3 - O LORD, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You will be put to shame Those who turn away on earth will be written down, Because they have forsaken the fountain of living water, even the LORD. In Isaiah 12:3, we read - Therefore with joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.
You are confusing the picture (water baptism) with the reality (Spirit baptism). As Greek scholar AT Robertsons points out - A symbol is not the reality, but the picture of the reality. During Spirit baptism (prior to receiving water baptism) believers are placed into the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:3) and God performs circumcision of the heart not by human hands (Romans 2:29). You would walk around mountains of grace in order to find water as a result of your church of Christ indoctrination.
You contradicted yourself. The first question that must be answered is "when was Paul saved?" Paul tells that he did not receive or hear the gospel from Ananias, but rather he received it directly from Christ. Galatians 1:11-12 says, "For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ."
Paul had repented (Acts 9:6). "Lord, what will you have me to do?" Repentance means a "change of mind," and is wrought by the grace of God. Paul once persecuted the Lord (Acts 9:5), but is now ready to serve Him demonstrating the fruit of repentance (Matthew 3:8; Acts 26:20).
Paul had believed. He had Christ as his Lord (Acts 9:6). The Bible tells us that "no man can say that Jesus is Lord except "by" the Holy Spirit (1 Corinthians 12:3). Paul had, by the work of the Holy Spirit, submitted to Christ as Lord. Paul prayed (Acts 9:11). "Behold, he is praying," the Lord said to Ananias. This indicates that Paul's praying was pleasing to God. Church of Christ preachers teach that God does not hear an unsaved man's prayer, quoting in this regard John 9:31 - "We know that God does not listen to sinners. He listens to the godly man who does his will." Well, Paul was a worshipper of God, calling Christ "Lord" and ready to do His will. All of these things characterized Paul before he was water baptized.
So, Paul heard and believed in Christ on the road to Damascus. Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was before he was baptized (Acts 9:18). Acts 9 does not specifically tell us when Saul was filled with the Spirit, but verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. *We know that he received his sight prior to his water baptism.
It's also interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all. Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him. It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him and was not saved.
This "washing away of sin" in water baptism was only "formal" or symbolic. As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ.
I thoroughly explained what that verses means to mean IN HARMONY WITH THE REST OF SCRIPTURE. The gospel is not "water baptized or condemned." The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16). To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation. To trust in "water and works" for salvation is to NOT believe the gospel (2 Corinthians 4:3,4).
We obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel.Romans 10:16 - But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed our report?" *Choosing to believe the gospel by trusting in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-sufficient means of our salvation is to obey the gospel.
Good day to you too.
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Nicodemus never read 1pet, or ephesians.
He was thee teacher...IN Israel...they had the old covenant scriptures, not the new.
The Ot scriptures spoke of the coming new covenant as has been pointed out.ezk36:25-27.yet Jesus asked Nicodemus about something he should already know.....then soon after this reference in Num 19, Jesus quotes from numbers 21 ....
all posters quoting NT baptism references are in error as NT baptism did not yet exist, and Nicodemus would not know anything about it...
He was thee teacher...IN Israel...they had the old covenant scriptures, not the new.
The Ot scriptures spoke of the coming new covenant as has been pointed out.ezk36:25-27.yet Jesus asked Nicodemus about something he should already know.....then soon after this reference in Num 19, Jesus quotes from numbers 21 ....
all posters quoting NT baptism references are in error as NT baptism did not yet exist, and Nicodemus would not know anything about it...
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The water is the word; but I thought one had to read the word to be saved. This isn't true because then it would be by works not by the spirit. Just like Jesus told Nicodemus "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God (John 3:5)." One can interpret water here to be water baptism but our Lord told the woman of Samaria at the well "But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life (John 4:14)." Water is the word but it has to be mixed with faith in those that hear it. Then the spirit works in them to bring about salvation. Just like Naaman, the Syrian, who was a leper. He heard that he could be cleansed of his leprosy so he came to Elisha who told him to dip himself 7 times (7 being the number of the spirit) in the Jordan and he would be clean (2 Kings 5:10). Naaman heard and he responded and came away cleansed (2 Kings 5:14). It wasn't the water of the Jordan that cleansed him of his leprosy. He heard, he responded and it was the spirit. Watching videos of crusades in third world countries is amazing. The people who come aren't water baptized. They haven't read the Word of God. For many, it's the first time they're heard the gospel. They respond to what they've heard and the spirit fills them. "Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith the Lord of hosts (Zech. 4:6)." So it's not by our works, it's by hearing the word and our responding to it that the spirit works in us. Just like baptism is symbolic of washing away the sins of the flesh, so is circumcision symbolic of rolling away the sins of the flesh. Neither can save. Paul teaches "But the word preached did not profit them, not mixed with faith in them that heard it (Heb. 4:2)." So can water baptism bring salvation --not without faith. Neither can circumcision. "Circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter (Rom. 2:29)." In other words, it's not by our works but by our faith and the spirit working in us that we are saved.
So what? We have the entire Bible, therefore we compare Scripture with Scripture.
Yes, and Exek 36:25 mentions water IN RELATION TO THE NEW COVENANT. This is not the water of separation since God is the one who applies this "water" to the soul and it is the filthiness of the soul through sin that God is talking about. This "washing" is clarified in Ephesians 5:26. So the Word of God is the "cleansing agent" for the soul, but the blood of Christ is the primary cleansing agent. We are dealing here with spiritual realities, not ordinary water (either of baptism or the OT water of separation).
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word
Yes, and Exek 36:25 mentions water IN RELATION TO THE NEW COVENANT. This is not the water of separation since God is the one who applies this "water" to the soul and it is the filthiness of the soul through sin that God is talking about. This "washing" is clarified in Ephesians 5:26. So the Word of God is the "cleansing agent" for the soul, but the blood of Christ is the primary cleansing agent. We are dealing here with spiritual realities, not ordinary water (either of baptism or the OT water of separation).
Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.
That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word