“Born of water...” -- exactly what does it mean?

[Lucy-Pevensie]

It's not so complicated. The verse just means what it says. Water and The Spirit.
2 different births. One of the flesh. One of The Spirit.

1 Born of water from your mother, flesh, the natural. 2 Born AGAIN of The Spirit.

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit .7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

 

[Magenta]

 

[preston39]

Correct...It seems to be a clear reference to the water of separation;
num19
9 And a man that is clean shall gather up the ashes of the heifer, and lay them up without the camp in a clean place, and it shall be kept for the congregation of the children of Israel for a water of separation: it is a purification for sin.
10 And he that gathereth the ashes of the heifer shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even: and it shall be unto the children of Israel, and unto the stranger that sojourneth among them, for a statute for ever.
11 He that toucheth the dead body of any man shall be unclean seven days.
12 He shall purify himself with it on the third day, and on the seventh day he shall be clean: but if he purify not himself the third day, then the seventh day he shall not be clean.
13 Whosoever toucheth the dead body of any man that is dead, and purifieth not himself, defileth the tabernacle of the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from Israel: because the water of separation was not sprinkled upon him, he shall be unclean; his uncleanness is yet upon him.
14 This is the law, when a man dieth in a tent: all that come into the tent, and all that is in the tent, shall be unclean seven days.
15 And every open vessel, which hath no covering bound upon it, is unclean.
16 And whosoever toucheth one that is slain with a sword in the open fields, or a dead body, or a bone of a man, or a grave, shall be unclean seven days.
17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel:
18 And a clean person shall take hyssop, and dip it in the water, and sprinkle it upon the tent, and upon all the vessels, and upon the persons that were there, and upon him that touched a bone, or one slain, or one dead, or a grave:
19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean at even.
20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the Lord: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.
21 And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean until even.
22 And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean until even.

I...,

We are reminded that The Old Testament is The Old Covenant.....and the New Testament is The New Covenant.
In that context we must maintain that if new guidance is provided under The New Covenant...we must declare it to be the current controlling scripture.

 

[preston39]

It's not so complicated. The verse just means what it says. Water and The Spirit.
2 different births. One of the flesh. One of The Spirit.

1 Born of water from your mother, flesh, the natural. 2 Born AGAIN of The Spirit.

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit .7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

L...,


What is meant by..."born of water from your mother"...?

 

[Magenta]

L...,
What is meant by..."born of water from your mother"...?

Amniotic fluid is commonly called water, or waters.
Meaning, referring to the birth of the flesh,
which, in terms of salvation, counts for nothing.

 

[preston39]

That statement is the epitome of irony.

m...,,


Hardly humorous.

One of the most compelling items of righteousness to get correct because ............failure represents total loss of eternal salvation.

 

[Locutus]

Adam Clarke's commentary:

Verse 5

Of water and of the Spirit - To the baptism of water a man was admitted when he became a proselyte to the Jewish religion; and, in this baptism, he promised in the most solemn manner to renounce idolatry, to take the God of Israel for his God, and to have his life conformed to the precepts of the Divine law. But the water which was used on the occasion was only an emblem of the Holy Spirit. The soul was considered as in a state of defilement, because of past sin: now, as by that water the body was washed, cleansed, and refreshed, so, by the influences of the Holy Spirit, the soul was to be purified from its defilement, and strengthened to walk in the way of truth and holiness.


When John came baptizing with water, he gave the Jews the plainest intimations that this would not suffice; that it was only typical of that baptism of the Holy Ghost, under the similitude of fire, which they must all receive from Jesus Christ: see Matthew 3:11. Therefore, our Lord asserts that a man must be born of water and the Spirit, i.e. of the Holy Ghost, which, represented under the similitude of water, cleanses, refreshes, and purifies the soul. Reader, hast thou never had any other baptism than that of water? If thou hast not had any other, take Jesus Christ's word for it, thou canst not, in thy present state, enter into the kingdom of God.

I would not say to thee merely, read what it is to be born of the Spirit: but pray, O pray to God incessantly, till he give thee to feel what is implied in it! Remember, it is Jesus only who baptizes with the Holy Ghost: see John 1:33. He who receives not this baptism has neither right nor title to the kingdom of God; nor can he with any propriety be termed a Christian, because that which essentially distinguished the Christian dispensation from that of the Jews was, that its author baptized all his followers with the Holy Ghost.


Though baptism by water, into the Christian faith, was necessary to every Jew and Gentile that entered into the kingdom of the Messiah, it is not necessary that by water and the Spirit (in this place) we should understand two different things: it is probably only an elliptical form of speech, for the Holy Spirit under the similitude of water; as, in Matthew 3:3, the Holy Ghost and fire, do not mean two things, but one, viz. the Holy Ghost under the similitude of fire - pervading every part, refining and purifying the whole.

https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/acc/john-3.html

 

[preston39]

Amniotic fluid is commonly called water, or waters.
Meaning, referring to the birth of the flesh,
which, in terms of salvation, counts for nothing.

M..,


Correct.

I wish to see what interpretation/application relating to baptism it was used.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It's not so complicated. The verse just means what it says. Water and The Spirit. 2 different births. One of the flesh. One of The Spirit.

How can the physical birth of an individual be A NECESSITY to enter into and to see the Kingdom of God? In fact, the physical birth simply guarantees that no man will enter into the Kingdom of God without the second birth.

The physical birth of all creatures is simply a given. But because all human beings are born separated from God and OUTSIDE the Kingdom of God, they MUST be born again. And there are two "birthing agents" for this New Birth according to the Lord; (1) water and (2) the Spirit. Millions believe that the water of baptism fulfills this requirement. But ordinary H2O cannot wash away sins. And the water of the womb is simply irrelevant.

Except a man be born of [1] water and [2] of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[Nehemiah6]

... it is not necessary that by water and the Spirit (in this place) we should understand two different things: it is probably only an elliptical form of speech, for the Holy Spirit under the similitude of water (quoting Adam Clarke)

In a matter as critical as this, the Lord was being very precise. Had He simply meant the Holy Spirit, He would not have even mentioned water. And other Scriptures tell us what this "water" is:

23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the Word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

24 For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:

25 But the Word of the Lord endureth for ever. And this is the Word which by the gospel is preached unto you. (1 Peter 1:23-25).

["Word" capitalized for its true meaning]

 

[Magenta]

How can the physical birth of an individual be A NECESSITY to enter into and to see the Kingdom of God? In fact, the physical birth simply guarantees that no man will enter into the Kingdom of God without the second birth.

The physical birth of all creatures is simply a given. But because all human beings are born separated from God and OUTSIDE the Kingdom of God, they MUST be born again. And there are two "birthing agents" for this New Birth according to the Lord; (1) water and (2) the Spirit. Millions believe that the water of baptism fulfills this requirement. But ordinary H2O cannot wash away sins. And the water of the womb is simply irrelevant.

Except a man be born of [1] water and [2] of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[stonesoffire]

Nehemiah, google Mikvah. The Jews still do this today with the same understanding as in the days of Jesus.

Then think about these words. Now are ye clean through my Word.

If a believer thinks he must be baptized, then he should. Otherwise he comes under condemnation from his own conscience.

However, you reject the gifts of Holy Spirit don't you? Which is greater? Water or Spirit?

Sorry for going a bit off topic Magenta. I just believe this to be so important!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Nehemiah, google Mikvah. The Jews still do this today with the same understanding as in the days of Jesus.

Not sure what relevance this has, but the Lord was certainly not teaching that ritual immersion produces the New Birth. He was referring to the "clean water" with which God washes sinners.

Then think about these words. Now are ye clean through my Word.

If you have followed my posts, that's exactly what I have been saying. That "water" as related to the New Birth is the Word of God (the Gospel).

However, you reject the gifts of Holy Spirit don't you? Which is greater? Water or Spirit?

Not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. I have never said that I reject the gifts of the Holy Spirit, since that would not only be foolish but presumptuous. What I (and many others) recognize from Scripture as well as the history of the Church, that some spiritual gifts were exclusively for the Apostolic Age, but there are plenty of other gifts that continue to this day. As to "which is greater" according to Christ both the Word of God and the Holy Spirit are involved in the supernatural New Birth. So the issue of "which is greater" is irrelevant.

 

[Nehemiah6]

This passage (John 4:13,14) was a reference to the Holy Spirit, and as already mentioned, water can also be a metaphor for the Holy Spirit. But since the Lord mentioned both water and Spirit, we can see that there are two "birthing agents" for the New Birth.

 

[stillness]

Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, Born of water = that which is born of the flesh . . .
of the Spirit = that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

When one is born of the flesh one is carried within the amniotic fluid, i.e. water . . . a woman's water breaks and gushes out shortly before the baby is born or during birth.

The comparison is plain . . .

To support what has been said:
Interpretation is consistent in the bible, but obviously there are 2 kinds of water, natural and Spiritual: the Water of Life.
The natural water represents the nations as in the example on natural birth and in under the influence of sin.
Interpretation for natural water is given in Revelation:
"Then the angel said to me: The waters you saw, where the prostitute sits, are peoples, multitudes, nations and languages."

 

[Metternich]

Acts 2:38Mt 28:26
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Ac 2:38). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Mt 26:28

[SUP]28 [/SUP]For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
The Holy Bible: King James Version. (2009). (Electronic Edition of the 1900 Authorized Version., Mt 26:28). Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

In both passages the "for" in red is the same greek word. Strongs 1519 eis. In the second passage you cannot deny that it means leading to so therefore it means the same thing in the first passage.

Conclusion, water baptism is necessary to salvation and thus what Jesus meant by being born of water.

 

[auntpoo]

To be born of water is a baptism of repentance. There is power in that...it's indescribable. The Bible teaches a baptism of repentance then we'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit, evidence of which is speaking in tongues, therefore we are "born of water and spirit" because when we experience these, we are a new creation in Christ.

 

[auntpoo]

Not sure how you arrived at this conclusion. I have never said that I reject the gifts of the Holy Spirit, since that would not only be foolish but presumptuous. What I (and many others) recognize from Scripture as well as the history of the Church, that some spiritual gifts were exclusively for the Apostolic Age, but there are plenty of other gifts that continue to this day. As to "which is greater" according to Christ both the Word of God and the Holy Spirit are involved in the supernatural New Birth. So the issue of "which is greater" is irrelevant.

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

How are some of the spiritual gifts not relevant today?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever.

Correct. But God works in different way at different times. As you go through the Bible you will see that.

How are some of the spiritual gifts not relevant today?

Let's take the gift of prophets as an example and ask ourselves a few questions:

1. Is the last book of the Bible a book of prophecy?

2. Does it provide an overview of God's plans for this earth and universe?

3. Does it require that no other words be added to this prophecy?

4. Is the Bible complete and sufficient for all Christians, and has been so since the first century?

5. Then why would prophets be necessary, and the gift of prophecy still relevant?

6. Also have there not been false prophets predicted by Christ who would come in the last days?

7. And do we not have evidence that Joseph Smith and Mohammad claimed to have received Divine revelations through the angel Gabriel?

8. And do Christians in general accept these two prophets?

All the prophets we need are already in Scripture from Genesis to Revelation.

 

[DJ2]

It's not so complicated. The verse just means what it says. Water and The Spirit.
2 different births. One of the flesh. One of The Spirit.

1 Born of water from your mother, flesh, the natural. 2 Born AGAIN of The Spirit.

John 3
5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit .7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’

This is an absurd notion, born out of desperation.

Flesh gives birth to flesh,

This is not a conforming response to Nicodemus's hyperbole "can a man enter again into his mother's womb" comment but the opposite. Jesus is simply pushing aside his comment by saying that the birth he is talking about is spiritual (water) not fleshly (womb). Jesus is not equating water with flesh but water with spirit.