STOP!!You might be the reason they're going to Hell

NoahsDad · Apr 3, 2009

ok lets try this again.
My last thread was sopposed to be about teaching withtact and it got WAAAAY off topic.
Now heres my biblical backiing
1Co 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.
1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it, neither yet now are ye able.
1Co 3:3 For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men?
1Co 3:4 For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal?
1Co 3:5 Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man?
1Co 3:6 I have planted, Apollos watered; but God gave the increase.
1Co 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.
1Co 3:8 Now he that planteth and he that watereth are one: and every man shall receive his own reward according to his own labour.
1Co 3:9 For we are labourers together with God: ye are God's husbandry, ye are God's building.
1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Co 3:12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;
1Co 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1Co 3:14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
1Co 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
1Co 3:17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
1Co 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.
1Co 3:19 For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness.
1Co 3:20 And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain.
1Co 3:21 Therefore let no man glory in men. For all things are yours;
1Co 3:22 Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; all are yours;
1Co 3:23 And ye are Christ's; and Christ is God's.
\Notice How Paul is teaching this subject,And how it carries all the way down to the 23rd verse.
This is an example of how we are to sew the seeds of faith.
When witnessing to those whom you feel are in false doctrine we are to aproach them with the love of God Not with a rod but a shepherds crook.Jesus did indeed talk to the pharacies and the Church leaders with harshness,But because they were supposed to know better Not because He was contending for the Faith,Those guys were the head of the church and were teaching False doctrine in the name of God ,Not the poor unfortunat victims of that teaching.In fact Jesus fed most of the people he taught in the wilderness befor He taught them,maybe thats where they get the old saying "The way to a mans heart is through his stomach"?
Anyhoo,What Im trying to convey is that even tho we are pure in our intentions we may be doing more damage to those we are trying to teach if we dont know when we are to back off.

Stand_Up_4_God · Apr 3, 2009

Oh great post! I totally agree with you! God bless!

carpetmanswife · Apr 3, 2009

I so agree..ive been thinkin lately ..the word says one man sows another waters but its God that gives the increase and my thinkin about this is ..we must be careful that if we are the one called to 'do the watering' so to speak ,we dont drown them in the process, reminds me of what zanderman says. shake dont pour, shine dont blind.

lifetime · Apr 3, 2009

You're exactly right dad. How often do we hear about those who turn away from faith altogether because of the fanatic wielding a stick with fire in their eyes. This kind of "teaching" if we're lucky does nothing to those who are solid in their faith and can see through the spiritual immaturity. It certainly doesn't do any good to bring anyone to the faith through fear because that's not freedom. Every individual is different and if you want to win someone over to the Lord then you ought to meet them on their level and help them grow from there. Otherwise, how could they understand a thing you say? You would only win them by force which is no solid foundation.

Thanks for bringing up this important topic dad.

imoss · Apr 3, 2009

beautiful! funny today i went to visit a childhood friend...I'd rejoiced prematurely when she enrolled her children in Christian school. Unfortunately because of the righteous judgement of her she's now turned away from Christianity and is leaning towards the feel good Oprah Christianity (pulls tongue outa cheek) where everyone goes to Heaven. She said she had women ask her what church she goes to and when she said she doesnt go they just walked away and left her feeling terrible for who she is. Carefully carefully carefully... Funny on the way to visit her the boys and I were praying for the right words and what came to mind is "there are no words... just let your light shine". I did tell her how mad righteous judgement made me and how it turns people away from the Lord and please dont judge the Lord based on those women. She then went into her positive thought theories and I didnt respond... as instructed. Before she talked she said... I know you probably dont believe in this but... then talked. I listened and then relayed a similar story but with God in control by answering my questions in prayer with scripture... so i didnt tell her she was dead wrong... cause she knew she was before she even told me her story. So yeah I agree with zanders favorite saying and i'm so thankful the Lord told me to shut my big mouth today.

roaringkitten · Apr 3, 2009

It certainly doesn't do any good to bring anyone to the faith through fear because that's not freedom

You have to warn them about hell, judgment, and preach against sin! Then you can tell them that Jesus paid the price for their sins and that they should place their faith in Him alone for salvation. You must tell them why they need a Savior!

imoss · Apr 3, 2009

sigh sigh sigh

BLC · Apr 3, 2009

roaringkitten,

Just read these verses and meditate on them. Let the Holy Spirit write them upon your heart as He has done with so many other beautiful scriptures.

Jer 31:3 ' The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee'.

Hosea 11:4 'I drew them with cords of a man, with bands of love: and I was to them as they that take off the yoke on their jaws, and I laid meat unto them'.

2Cor 5:14,15 'For the love of Christ constraineth us; because we thus judge, that if one died for all, then were all dead: And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again'.

Romans 5:5 'And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Spirit which is given unto us'.

NoahsDad · Apr 3, 2009

but kitten what if they think they are right and You are wrong? What then? What do you do when face to face with a Jim Jones or a branch Devidian follower personality? Do you beat them up and drag them to a conventual church?,Take out your bible and reaferm to them whaT THE FALSE PROFET TWISTED With his brand of teaching? Or do you do as Paul just instructed us to do?sew a small seed of truth,and Prey to the Real God of heaven to send someone to water that seed you,ve just sewn and in so doing let God do His work,I feel as christians in the US.we get a little zealous just like Paul in his early days and throw the sheep to the wolvs instead of kicking the wolvs and protecting the sheep,since the sheep are out there doing what the wolvs have sent them to do ,and thats geting more converts.While the true wolvs are cowering in their large houses spreading their vile doctrine through unlearned people who just want to be accepted.And Im just as guilty as anyone else.
A wise teacher once told me "the best lessons we teach are the ones we've walked through ourselvs." Meaning ,That sometimes we learn how to teach others how to get out of a certain situation is to go through that situation ourselves,and in so doing we learn to be more patient with that perticular person while we are teaching them,cuz we know how they are feeling at that time.Ya know?
I love your heart for spreading the word. And most of the folx in CC,But I feel patience in teaching is lacking most of the time.
It seems as if sometimes most are debating to be right and not to learn,sometimes the teacher becomes the student,I've learnd this many times teaching guitar lessons to kids.I get lost in music theory at times and they have no consept of the rules ,so they are more feeling at times,
then other times they get about 3 strings off key,but I dont hit them over the head with their guitar.

Ancilla · Apr 3, 2009

imoss said:

Well put! Sometimes we just gotta remember that we can't make someone else see things from our point of view.

NoahsDad · Apr 3, 2009

Mat 10:16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

roaringkitten · Apr 3, 2009

Too many people water down the gospel when it is being preached. Many speak of Christ without speaking of why they need Christ! That doesn't make any sense. Of course I'm not going to smack them over the head with the Bible but tell them that I care for them and that they are in danger of hell because of their sins...The world doesn't like it when you tell them they are a sinner(so am I btw) because they hate the things of God(For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:20)....Why was Jesus killed? Because he stood up to hypocritical religion and did not waver in the truth! Of course the world is going to hate Christians for telling them the truth! If Jesus was persecuted, so will you if you preach the truth to them!(John 15:18-20) But too many professing Christians are too scared to offend anyone so they water it down.

"For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek." Romans 1:16

"For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect." 1 Corinthains 1:17

The power is in the gospel...Not in man devising different ways(ie:wisdom of words) and philosophies in reaching the lost. The gospel must be preached with the its full authority. You need to tell the lost sinner they are going to hell in their sins if they do not trust Jesus to save them! Tell them you care for them so much which is why you are warning them! Apostate churches water down the gospel and dont take a stand for God against this wicked world(Psalm 94:16).

NoahsDad · Apr 3, 2009

roaringkitten said:

you aint geting what Im saying.
Of corse you are supposed to preach the gospel to the lost,But what do you do when faced with a person that thinks they arent lost and you are?How you gunna convince them,What if they know more bible than you do?Satan knows the bible,The bible history(heck he was there when it was written),all the little twists and turns ,the ins and outs,all the little tricks.
Waht will you do if you met a guy with small children thats in a death cult that knows the bible inside and out and you see through the false doctrine ,but the profet told them the same verse you just quoted
(For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. John 3:20)....
and hes trying to convert you?You gunna tell him hes in need of a savior?He thinks hes already got the savior,you need the saving,and worse his little kids are in the middle of it,How you gunna comnbat that with a hell fire teaching?
If the first thing you do is confront it with staunch opposition you've just reinforced that verse you posted"The world doesn't like it when you tell them they are a sinner(so am I btw) because they hate the things of God"
What Im saying is this
You cant kill a snake from the tail up,you must go after the head.
so attacking the believers of a cult aint gunna help the victim,
Attack the head by slowly pulling the tail back till you can see the head.

roaringkitten · Apr 3, 2009

Its kind of hard to express emotions on a thread....And I am quite different in person than what I may seem sometimes on here. I know what you mean....I understand....I just dont like it that people water down the gospel.....And/or preach one that is found nowhere in the Word of God. If I thought catholicism is correct I wouldnt mind them. But they subvert the simple gospel to their own destruction. I do make it a point to tell people that I write threads because I care for them.....And that I dont want to be seen as someone that bashes the people addressed..For example, the catholic thread, I write at the very top that Im not attacking catholics but their false theology(the most important one being salvation)...It may appear to be harsh to some, but I am explaining that I do it because I care....Its really hard "writing emotion" on the forums....This is as close as its going to get for "emotion" on a forum---->

Ancilla · Apr 3, 2009

NoahsDad said:

Yeah, when I look at the world and see which places really really need to be Evangelized I often see a history of Christians who screwed up there. According to something I saw on the history of Chrisitnaity, the Middle East's closed minded attitude towards Christianity have to do with the Crusades. And Quebec is now the least reached part of North America, and my mom (who has a history degree) says that's because the church there was oppressive. And the UK now has more people who go to mosque than to church, that's probably because the Anglican Church there screwed up. My aunt's husband wasn't interested in Christianity, and we think that's because he was abused bya priest. And, (oh my goodness, this is going to make me cry!) there was this museum exibit I went to about the Blackfoot people. It had this chronoligcal order to it and lead towards a recreation of a residential school* which deliberatly felt uncomfortable and confining. They were told they couldn't speak their language or have anything to do with their culture. This is where too many Native people learned about Jesus for the first time. I know a Blackfoot woman who's a priest in the Anglican Church. She doesn't call God "God" because she'd suffered so much abuse in the name of God. Instead she refers to Him as "The Creator." And that's really cool because that doesn't just refer to Him creating the world. It also refers to Him creating a new heart in us. At one point when she was young woman, Jesus appeared to her in a dream and told she was going to through a difficult time. He was holding a rosary, and she knew that meant he wanted her to forgive the Catholics who ran the horrific residential school she was forced to attend.

Anyway, as a more contemporary example. On the news I've heard about Christians in the USA saying that "God hates fags." Now, if reading this from the UK, yes, God does not like cigarettes. But in the US and Canada a "fag" is a derogitory term for a homosexual. I just can't imagine how happy that must make the devil, because I really can't imagine anything more destructive for a non-Christian to hear.

*Native kids in Canada were at one point taken from their parents and forced to go to these schools were they were exposed to emotional, cultural, physical and sexual abuse. The schools were a government initiaitve and funded by the government but somehow they talked the church (mostly Anglican and Roman Catholic) into running them. The legacy of these schools has been devistating.

BLC · Apr 3, 2009

roaringkitten said:

We preach Jesus Christ and Him crucified (1Cor 1:23). When we do that effectively, the Holy Spirit will convict the sinner of sin (John 16:8) because that is His job and He does it right with perfect judgment. There is such a thing as loving conviction. Always remember that God's response to a wicked world that is under the headship of Satan, as the God of this world was John 3:16 'For God SO LOVED THE WORLD... that HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON...who did not come to condemn but to seek and save that which was lost. People are lost because of the darkness of sin and Satan blinding their minds, but God gives them LIGHT through LOVE so that they may have LIFE.

roaringkitten · Apr 3, 2009

I've heard about Christians in the USA saying that "God hates fags."

A Christian who says that really doesn't understand what the Word says. God hates SIN. But he loved the whole world enough to die for us! There is a fine line between saying the truth in love and saying it with hatred....Ive seen preachers at my school scream HATRED toward the students....On the other hand, I've seen preachers who preach the truth(like hell is real) but tells them that he cares for them....I dont have the luxury of using "tone of voice" on CC, so, many times people get different viewpoints of me(or anyone else for that matter)...

roaringkitten · Apr 3, 2009

Yes BLC...I agree....You cannot argue with someone who is opposed to the gospel...We are the messengers but God gives the increase....

NoahsDad · Apr 3, 2009

roaringkitten said:

Its kind of hard to express emotions on a thread....And I am quite different in person than what I may seem sometimes on here. I know what you mean....I understand....I just dont like it that people water down the gospel.....And/or preach one that is found nowhere in the Word of God. If I thought catholicism is correct I wouldnt mind them. But they subvert the simple gospel to their own destruction. I do make it a point to tell people that I write threads because I care for them.....And that I dont want to be seen as someone that bashes the people addressed..For example, the catholic thread, I write at the very top that Im not attacking catholics but their false theology(the most important one being salvation)...It may appear to be harsh to some, but I am explaining that I do it because I care....Its really hard "writing emotion" on the forums....This is as close as its going to get for "emotion" on a forum---->

AWESOME.......I liike that emotion.....
Now we pray for the lost children of america together and find the heads of the snakes...and chop them suckers off..........hahahahahaha
HOLLA!

Ancilla · Apr 4, 2009

roaringkitten said:

Yeah, see saying "God hates fags" is not even speaking the truth with hate. That's speaking lies with hate because it imples that God hates the people that He died for which, as you pointed out is a contradiction. The real problem because most gay people I know feel that they'd always been gay, long before their first sexual act. It's kind of like how I can be a heterosexual and a virgin. So when non-Christians hear "God hates fags" they don't hear "God hates sin" they hear "God hate a specific kind of person who Christians are uncomfortable with." Furthermore they see homosexuality as a sin the doesn't actually vicitimize anyone so they wonder why Christians are loosing so much sleep over it when there's so much injustice in the world. They must totally wonder why Christians would support a candidate for president who opposes same-sex marriage but support cluster bombs and torture.

If Christians feel the need to say that God hates someone, why can't they just say "God hates pimps"? I mean first of all, one has to actually have engaged the sin in order to be considered a pimp and secondly, I can't imagine a worse sin. BUT that wouldn't get one on the news would it???

roaringkitten said:

I'm not sure if I agree. Love and hate are pretty different. What I would say is that when one speaks the truth in love, it's very easy to be careless and therefore do more harm than good.

roaringkitten said:

Good grief, what school do you go to? I mean not that I expect you to actually answer that security reasons. I heard about something sketchy at one point going on at one of the schools where I did my undergrad. But, while I was there all attempts at campus evangelism I knew about where pretty good.

roaringkitten said:

So true hey? I never realized how much I depended on my tone of voice to get my message across until I started communicating over the Internet.

STOP!!You might be the reason they're going to Hell

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