What is "spiritually dead?"

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
Since when can a baby believe with the mind and confess with the mouth to salvation after hearing the word<-faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word....the argument started with your worldly examples of yourself void of the word...of the which I GAVE 2 EXAMPLES ;)
Just wanted to say, I don't think I had ever actually picked up on the two examples you gave and saw them in this light before.... So thanks...Don't know about anyone else but you taught me something, anyhow...:)
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Since when is "believe with the mind and confess with the mouth" (our work) the way to salvation?

Are you saying mutes, babies, and mentally disabled people can't be saved?
Our work....try again..his work and the latter I never implied
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Just wanted to say, I don't think I had ever actually picked up on the two examples you gave and saw them in this light before.... So thanks...Don't know about anyone else but you taught me something, anyhow...:)
Thanks...clear unto all who will open their dogmatic eyes
 
D

Depleted

Guest
I am really think on this. I still keep coming back to the spiritually dead are separated from God through sin. I know no one can save themselves and the only way to be saved or made alive is through Jesus.

So like I said I have been thinking a lot about this. I have seen many lost people in my life who seem to have a “spiritual longing”. They may even come to church sit down and listen to the message being sent out, and just sit there with tears streaming down their face. You can tell that they are longing for God, but for some reason they are not willing to turn it over to God. There is something or somethings in their life that they are not willing to give to God. They are not willing to give him their whole heart and put their complete faith in Him. So they go away sorrowful.

You can also see this in the scripture regarding the rich young man. He came to Jesus wanting to be his disciple, but was not willing to do what Jesus said to do and sell all that he had, give to the poor, and follow him…which was really just to put Jesus first, give Him his whole heart, and love Him more than anything.

The rich man wasn’t willing to put Jesus first and give it all to him so he walked away sorrowful. He remained spiritually dead, yet, that was his choice.
You know people I've never met. I know that sounds, "Duh now," but I mean the type of people I've never met, not exactly the same people.

Most of my family are Catholic. One is atheist. One is agnostic. Obviously the atheist isn't worried about God at all, but the others are. They all think they're getting what they want out of God -- that eternal-vacation-plan. (Heaven.) But what they imagine isn't related to reality at all. They want God to do for them, but have no concept they need anything from God. And they think they're doing what he wants by going to mass every week. Some even go to confession once in a while. They think that's it. The contract is paid in full. They give God what he wants, (mass on Sundays, and occasional penance) and they get the eternal-vacation-plan.

That's not longing. It's lack-of-longing.

I am not as sure as I was what spiritually dead is when I started this thread, but it strikes me, my blood family is that. They are spiritually dead. Whenever I talk to them anything about the Lord, they have the look of "This again?" My dad scoffed, my oldest brother looked like I was speaking Inuit to him. Nothing made sense to him. Most of my siblings think I'm cute in my folksy beliefs. The uneducated bumpkin, and yet they know me enough to know I'm not that... except about God.

It's like trying to move a corpse, and I am literally not strong enough to move a corpse.

Interesting concept study. Four times, someone came to Jesus and asked him what they should do to be saved. Three times he told a story or told them something they simply wouldn't do. (Often both at the same time.) One time he out and out told the guy what he must do. (John 3 is that conversation.)

We hear nothing at all, ever again, from the three he told stories to, and yet the one he out-and-out told shows up again later on. He becomes one of the saved, in a round about way. I think Jesus has something on us. (Well, he has a lot of stuff on us. lol) He knows who he will save and who he won't. All four of those people came to him as spiritually-dead-men-walking. One walked away spiritually-alive.

I don't get the knowing he has, since I'm not God. But, man! I wish I knew if I should be telling my family stories they won't ever listen to, or out and out tell them the gospel. 45 years of praying and hoping he will save them and not getting anywhere on my part, has worn me to a Cape May diamond.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
I do agree with what you are saying here. I just think we have a different understanding of John 3:19-20. To me this is everyone's choice whether they will come into the light and let their works be manifested and changed or if they choose to stay in darkness.

Don't know why but the rich young man is still on my mind here...so I'm gonna go with him on this one too, I guess....lol

He didn't even know that he had sin. He thought he was doing good and keeping all the commandments, until he came before Jesus (the light). The light showed him the error of his way, but he chose to walked away and to stay in darkness rather than light.
Are you sitting down? Sit down, if you're not.

Then take a deep breath or too, because I don't want you to faint when I say the next thing.

Ready?

Here goes...

I agree with you. We DO have choice. We could choose to go into that light. That choice is very much involved in 19 and 20.

BUT, look at who does choose that?

That's where we differ. "For everyone who does wicked things." Ever meet anyone who didn't do wicked things? I am disqualified immediately. So was the rich man, specifically because he was hoarding his riches. If he was not, he would have had no problems doing exactly what Jesus told him to do. That was his line in the sand, and we all have one. We hold back. We hold back for our own sake, because we are number one in our own eyes. We deserve whatever more than God himself. Which brings us right back to "who does wicked things."

And what does it say about who does wicked things? "hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed." That's what rich guy was hiding. That's what I was hiding. That's what we were all hiding. It was a choice. It was always the same choice.

Sometimes I even want to slide back into the darkness, and I can't even remember what I was hiding. It's more comfortable there. It's what I'm used to. I'm less exposed. And, dumb me, still kind of thinks maybe God can't see me being me if it's dark enough. (NOT the brightest bulb in the box. lol)

What changed that choice?

And now changed, we still make choices, but the choices have expanded. We don't get "sin, sin, or... sin" anymore. We chose to sin or follow the Lord every single day.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like a butterfly, but forgot I can fly, so I shimmy-shimmy up a branch. Looking forward to the day when choice leaves!
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Thanks...clear unto all who will open their dogmatic eyes
Sooo, honestly? You've got some grand belief that is so much more important to you than what the Bible says, and my eyes are dogmatic? Yeah. Okay. At least now I know it wasn't always me wanting to start an argument just for the sake of arguing.

If it were important to you because it was something the Lord showed you and you just have to get everyone else to get it too, this would have ended differently. You would have tried your best to show your point. But, nope. All about your point.

#SNAFU
 
Mar 23, 2016
7,021
1,673
113
Renewed, between what you taught me, and Spurgeon, I think I'm getting this (maybe) a bit more.

We are given new life from the Lord, but that doesn't mean perfect life and all grown up, healthy and wise. God has to dig out the corrupted, reproduce perfect from severely-mutated, and washwashwash the corroded off of us.

He's turning worms into angels!

“Perfect in Christ Jesus.” Col. 1:28

Do you not feel in your own soul that perfection is not in you? Does not every day teach you that? Every tear, which trickles from your eye, weeps “imperfection”; every harsh word, which proceeds from your lip, mutters “imperfection.” You have too frequently had a view of your own heart to dream for a moment of any perfection in yourself. But amidst this sad consciousness of imperfection, here is comfort for you-you are “perfect in Christ Jesus.” In God’s sight, you are “complete in him;” even now you are “accepted in the Beloved.” But there is a second perfection, yet to be realized, which is sure to all the seed. Is it not delightful to look forward to the time when every stain of sin shall be removed from the believer, and he shall be presented faultless before the throne, without spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing? The Church of Christ then will be so pure, that not even the eye of Omniscience will see a spot or blemish in her; so holy and so glorious, that Hart did not go beyond the truth when he said-
“With my Saviour’s garments on,
Holy as the Holy One.”

Then shall we know, and taste, and feel the happiness of this vast but short sentence, “Complete in Christ.” Not till then shall we fully comprehend the heights and depths of the salvation of Jesus. Doth not thy heart leap for joy at the thought of it? Black as thou art, thou shalt be white one day; filthy as thou art, thou shalt be clean. Oh, it is a marvelous salvation this! Christ takes a worm and transforms it into an angel; Christ takes a black and deformed thing and makes it clean and matchless in his glory, peerless in his beauty, and fit to be the companion of seraphs. O my soul, stand and admire this blessed truth of perfection in Christ.
Right.

And in this lifetime, I will always have something corroded for God to remove from me. In other words, I will never be perfect in this life. I will never see God face to face in this lifetime.


And sometimes when God is in the process of removing something unneeded or unnecessary to me, I have the audacity to struggle with Him. I hold on to that dead weight rather than let go. So God works on me some more until I finally let go of that unnecessary weight, that which is hindering me in my spiritual growth. And I wonder to myself "why did I argue with God? I'm so much better off without that weight in my life!"


And then God is gracious and merciful to me!!! So patient in the face of my stubbornness. I just love Him more and more every day.


When we are first born again, we are babes in Christ. As we continue in our spiritual growth, we mature in Christ. We become like those spoken of in Ephesians 4:14 - no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.


Just as we grow physically ... from infancy to adulthood.


So we grow spiritually. Again, a process. God will see to it. We are to remain confident that he which hath begun a good work in [us] will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
3,729
1,921
113
Are you sitting down? Sit down, if you're not.

Then take a deep breath or too, because I don't want you to faint when I say the next thing.

Ready?

Here goes...

I agree with you. We DO have choice. We could choose to go into that light. That choice is very much involved in 19 and 20.

BUT, look at who does choose that?

That's where we differ. "For everyone who does wicked things." Ever meet anyone who didn't do wicked things? I am disqualified immediately. So was the rich man, specifically because he was hoarding his riches. If he was not, he would have had no problems doing exactly what Jesus told him to do. That was his line in the sand, and we all have one. We hold back. We hold back for our own sake, because we are number one in our own eyes. We deserve whatever more than God himself. Which brings us right back to "who does wicked things."

And what does it say about who does wicked things? "hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed." That's what rich guy was hiding. That's what I was hiding. That's what we were all hiding. It was a choice. It was always the same choice.

Sometimes I even want to slide back into the darkness, and I can't even remember what I was hiding. It's more comfortable there. It's what I'm used to. I'm less exposed. And, dumb me, still kind of thinks maybe God can't see me being me if it's dark enough. (NOT the brightest bulb in the box. lol)

What changed that choice?

And now changed, we still make choices, but the choices have expanded. We don't get "sin, sin, or... sin" anymore. We chose to sin or follow the Lord every single day.

Honestly, sometimes I feel like a butterfly, but forgot I can fly, so I shimmy-shimmy up a branch. Looking forward to the day when choice leaves!
I do honestly agree with you more times than not.

Thanks for this thread it has really made me think more on this subject, and thanks for the conversation. I have enjoyed your posts. :)
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
So the spiritually dead can do spiritually? They live and move and have their spiritual being, except it is apart from God?
fallen angels and demons are spiritually dead.

i guess it depends on what you define as life and living.

we know that the Word of God is living waters that flow from our hearts.

yet do we recognize the poisonous waters that flow from the world?

its been a while since i have been online and i have only skimmed the thread.

but when i look at the world, i see a lot of spiritually dead people. zombies wandering around with no care or concern for God or the things of God.

the Bible calls it the flesh or the things of the world that are at war with the things of God.

the Bible says that God gives breathe to every living thing. in Job it speaks of how God could take that breathe away and all flesh would die and decay.

so if anyone is drawing breathe, then by God's providence they have been given a bit of grace. however faith and grace aren't the same thing.

folks also have "faith" in many things and not in God who saves, not in Jesus but in false gospels and lies of the world. so some are seeking but have not found a saving faith.

sometimes God blesses us and increases our faith by using us to give to others that gospel. its a humbling and awe inspiring experience to see how God's Word gives life to a dying soul.

yet some people get prideful and try and take God's glory for themselves. they have a tally of how many people "they have saved" not giving all glory to God but building their own kingdom and empire, gathering power and acclaim .

Jesus says to those who seek to build their own kingdoms "depart from me you workers of iniquities"

it doesn't matter how many "miracles" and "healings" they preformed because these bodies are just temporary tents made to die and decay. we are but strangers in a strange land, making our way back to our Heavenly Father. we are promised a body that will never die or decay. our hope is not in earthly things and wealth and power but our treasure is in Heaven. we gather that treasure by every kind act of agape love for others. when we are tested by fire, our works will be revealed as either for God and golden or for the world and burnt up hay and straw.

its heart breaking to have loved ones who don't know Jesus or worst who have been innoculated with a false gospel and don't want to here that they don't get a guaranteed vacation plan in Heaven.

The Bible warns us that the world will see the children of God as strange. for the gospel will be foolishness to the gentiles and the jews will seek a sign, but for those of us who are being saved He is Life.

to be spiritually alive is to know God. to be able to pray to Him and know He hears us. to have His joy and peace within our hearts always through out trials and tribulation that is promised to come in this world. it is to learn discernment and see what people say is true or what is lies that are trying to lead us away from our Heavenly Father.

then we have the spiritually dying. those who have been touched by God's grace yet don't fully accept Him. those who are double minded and in their hearts still seek things of the world. i am not talking about those with spiritual strongholds that the Holy Spirit is helping to tear down. no i refer to those people who like Aggrippa tell God that they are "almost" convinced to accept Jesus as savior but haven't made that final step.

we can debate if God will continue to send messengers to change their hearts or we can follow God's instructions and be His hands and feet.

should we speak in parables or just give them the gospel plainly?

Jesus spoke in parables for the crowd and for those He knew would not listen or accept His message.

perhaps when we start with loved ones we too should start with parables and if they come back and ask s what we mean, we can explain the gospel clearly?

do you remember the demonic man in the tombs with Legion of demons?

the people told Jesus to leave after the swine had committed suicide. Jesus told the man to stay and witness to the Decoplis (spell check needed). when Jesus came back, the people were then ready to hear and many accepted His message and followed Him.

my point being: we don't know God's plans for saving those around us. we can only pray and take it one step at a time.

even if the people chase Jesus away...when He returns, they may be ready then to accept Him.

so even if we get chased away from people or shunned, we should not give up hope because God is able to work in the lives and hearts of the people around us to bring them to Him.

we are but one way to reach the lost and we aren't required to understand all of God's plans. just enough to take that one right and faithful step at a time.

sometimes that might be as simple as listening with love and nonjudgmental spirit to a hurting soul and reminding them that God does love them and is willing to forgive. in fact He loves them so much, He can show them a way out of their sins (most will acknowledge their sins without us pointing them out for the Holy Spirit shows them it) and into His light.

i have to take my poor handicapped son (who broke his arm in a wrestling match) to school. 1st day back after 6 days off for recovery. prayers are always welcomed.
 
Jan 25, 2018
673
10
0
Spiritually alive in God

Finally, my brothers, rejoice in the Lord!
Philippians 3:1

In everything set them an example by doing what is good. In your teaching show integrity, seriousness
and soundness of speech that cannot be condemned, so that those who oppose you may be ashamed because they have nothing bad to say about us.
Titus 2:7-8

Is any one of you in trouble? He should pray. Is anyone happy? Let him sing songs of praise.
James 5:13

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praiseworthy--think about such things.
Philippians 4:8

This is spiritual life, bringing glory to our Lord Jesus Christ.
Peace and grace be with you.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Sooo, honestly? You've got some grand belief that is so much more important to you than what the Bible says, and my eyes are dogmatic? Yeah. Okay. At least now I know it wasn't always me wanting to start an argument just for the sake of arguing.

If it were important to you because it was something the Lord showed you and you just have to get everyone else to get it too, this would have ended differently. You would have tried your best to show your point. But, nope. All about your point.

#SNAFU
You may fool many with your antics, but not me....I gave two sets of scriptures in context that prove that their is an allusion to exceptions to the hard fast rules that many impose upon the bible...you immediately rejected, argued and then came back with some worldly flippant argument and a mouthy response as you do to most....I then asked you to explain how David, under inspiration could say what he did with such assurance about his 0ne week old dead son...and again you came back with some mouthy response and implied I said something that I did not say....Maybe you should take the time to be honest and look in the mirror depleted uranium.....innocent babies/children (until they reach a point of accountability)and the mentally handicapped (born that way) all have a place safe under the blood.....
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
You may fool many with your antics, but not me....I gave two sets of scriptures in context that prove that their is an allusion to exceptions to the hard fast rules that many impose upon the bible...you immediately rejected, argued and then came back with some worldly flippant argument and a mouthy response as you do to most....I then asked you to explain how David, under inspiration could say what he did with such assurance about his 0ne week old dead son...and again you came back with some mouthy response and implied I said something that I did not say....Maybe you should take the time to be honest and look in the mirror depleted uranium.....innocent babies/children (until they reach a point of accountability)and the mentally handicapped (born that way) all have a place safe under the blood.....
election, predestination....

the baby was one of the "elect" (no free will choice needed)

is normally what reformed folks would answer.

not that i would answer for someone...just reposting what i have read in the past.

i am sure someone will correct me if i speak amiss.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Even the ability to believe is from God.[John 6:29]
And when have I said other wise......the subject is not a lost man believing , but rather being spiritually dead....and surely you read the two examples that I gave.....God is just and David, under inspiration stated he would go to his child and see him again....only two possibilities with that one and David speaks of his salvation in the present tense<--logically deduce that one....and the other...PAUL ALIVE, the commandment came SIN revived and he DIED while still breathing....ONLY ONE death possible with that one...logically deduce that ONE........my points are valid regardless of whose doctrine or dogma that disagrees......
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
election, predestination....

the baby was one of the "elect" (no free will choice needed)

is normally what reformed folks would answer.

not that i would answer for someone...just reposting what i have read in the past.

i am sure someone will correct me if i speak amiss.
YEAH.....so....are the 60 million aborted babies in the U.S. since Roe vs. Wade in heaven or hell.......and if heaven is it because they were the elect or because God is just and all who cannot make a cognitive decision are safe under the blood.....!
 
A

Ariel82

Guest
not the person to ask. i believe in universal atonement and that God's grace covers all children until the day He presents to them a choice as He did the Israelites: will they follow Him or will they wander away in darkness of the world?

Until that moment of choice, they are placed under the Law and are slaves and in bondage. will they realize their need of a savior or seek to remain as Egyptian slaves?
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
"Believe with the mind and confess with the mouth" implies we have to have the mental faculties to understand enough and then the tongue to say it, all in our effort to save ourselves. That dismisses mutes, babies and mentally disabled people from being saved.

Friends of ours are missionaries to Southwest Philly. That's where the Lord called them to missionary work, and both are evangelists and teachers in the Biblical sense. They're married and had children, so they evangelized and taught their children too, from 4-months pregnant on up. (They even told their kids about God before they were born.)

Their son was 18 months old when he died in his crib. (SIDS. Poor couple actually had to go through the ordeal of having their son autopsied with cops wondering if maybe they didn't kill their son.) They were devastated as any parents would be.

I still remember the passage the father read at his son's funeral. Always the evangelist. Always pointing to the Lord.

2 Cor. 4:7 But we have this treasure in jars of clay, to show that the surpassing power belongs to God and not to us.8 We are afflicted in every way, but not crushed; perplexed, but not driven to despair;9 persecuted, but not forsaken; struck down, but not destroyed;10 always carrying in the body the death of Jesus, so that the life of Jesus may also be manifested in our bodies.11 For we who live are always being given over to death for Jesus' sake, so that the life of Jesus also may be manifested in our mortal flesh.12 So death is at work in us, but life in you.


So, since the son could barely talk, was he not saved because he could not speech with his mouth or understand in his heart like he could have if he were 12?

That's what "age of accountability" does. It reduces people to "saved by age." It is not "saved by the Lord." It is another way to be saved. There is the one and only way to the Father.

I don't know how the Lord chooses his people, but I am sure it's not on our part based on mental understanding, verbal elocution, or age. ALL of it is on his part.
Ah...I see where your knot is now. :)

I don't view Pauls words as law that condemns. I look at them as...reassurance.
To make them into a "law," as men are wont to always do, brings a rigidness without mercy. It doesn't make any allowances for special cases (like someone carrying a meal to a sick relative on the Sabbath!) They were always screaming at people: working! Working! You are working and the law prohibits it! This was what Jesus was upset with the teachers of law for. That they put impossible demands on men and wouldn't lift one finger in mercy to relieve that weight.

So to make Pauls words (to people who had all their mental faculties) into a law that says if someone is handicapped in some way and cannot understand or talk cannot be saved and will not be saved is making a law of Pauls words. It always ends in the exclusion of mercy, which is a weightier aspect. To try to bring back law with Pauls words will always end in no mercy.

You are arguing against an age of accountability while also arguing for it by saying there are some cases where there never really ever WILL be an age of accountability for babies who die or the mentally impaired, etc.

You are onto something good here. Mephibosheth - could he walk to the temple or stick to the strictnesses of all the law? Probably not. In fact, were the lame even allowed in the temple? I'm not sure....but he was blemished/ crippled. And he was given to eat at the kings table, in mercy. And he knew that he was worthy only of death because of whose child he was and yet he was given a seat! So the crippled, lame, sick, mentally impaired, unable to speak - won't He show them mercy too? Were they born that way because of the sins of their parents or were they born that way so the glory of God (His mercy is part of all His glory) could be shown when one day all will bend their knees and praise Him for His great mercy toward them and for the many other good things that He does and is?

If someone would dare to show no mercy to a man by making a new law of Pauls words by saying his impairment will cause God to show him no mercy since he can't speak with his mouth, when it is God who makes the mouth to speak, then God help that man because if he shows no mercy and seeks to yoke men anew with a law without mercy, then he will be shown no mercy.

You are onto something good. Find more verses and more support, but don't let anyone make Pauls words into a law that can't be borne for its weight AND at the same time, do not discard Pauls words to men who could understand them because of special cases.
 

notuptome

Senior Member
May 17, 2013
15,050
2,538
113
Even the ability to believe is from God.[John 6:29]
Context is important. Jesus was speaking to the elect, Israel, not to Gentiles. This group sought a sign from Jesus.

God makes it to rain and the sun to shine on the good and the evil. God in His goodness cares for the elect and the non elect.

Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Right.

And in this lifetime, I will always have something corroded for God to remove from me. In other words, I will never be perfect in this life. I will never see God face to face in this lifetime.


And sometimes when God is in the process of removing something unneeded or unnecessary to me, I have the audacity to struggle with Him. I hold on to that dead weight rather than let go. So God works on me some more until I finally let go of that unnecessary weight, that which is hindering me in my spiritual growth. And I wonder to myself "why did I argue with God? I'm so much better off without that weight in my life!"


And then God is gracious and merciful to me!!! So patient in the face of my stubbornness. I just love Him more and more every day.


When we are first born again, we are babes in Christ. As we continue in our spiritual growth, we mature in Christ. We become like those spoken of in Ephesians 4:14 - no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive.


Just as we grow physically ... from infancy to adulthood.


So we grow spiritually. Again, a process. God will see to it. We are to remain confident that he which hath begun a good work in [us] will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ.
A loooonnnnnng painful process. I look forward to the day I get to see what the new vessel looks like completed.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
And when have I said other wise......the subject is not a lost man believing , but rather being spiritually dead....and surely you read the two examples that I gave.....God is just and David, under inspiration stated he would go to his child and see him again....only two possibilities with that one and David speaks of his salvation in the present tense<--logically deduce that one....and the other...PAUL ALIVE, the commandment came SIN revived and he DIED while still breathing....ONLY ONE death possible with that one...logically deduce that ONE........my points are valid regardless of whose doctrine or dogma that disagrees......
And, the first thing I told you is that we were never going to agree on this one. And yet, now I'm "depleted uranium?"

I'll tell you the truth. I reported you for that one. Too much vile from you. There is no love in you.