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D
Interesting. You're the first person I've known to think first death and second death are both future events.
What do you see in the beginning of Ephesians 2? (I'd post, but I don't know your version preferences.) Seems past tense to me.
(BTW, took 15 seconds to figure out GWT. Just not the lingo of any church I went to before. Only heard of it on this site. lol)
What do you see in the beginning of Ephesians 2? (I'd post, but I don't know your version preferences.) Seems past tense to me.
(BTW, took 15 seconds to figure out GWT. Just not the lingo of any church I went to before. Only heard of it on this site. lol)
D
I wrote the post to both of you in hopes of helping you both.
If we have hurt feelings, its because of wounded pride.
If our response to wounded pride is more pride, it never gets better, only worse.
When we SEE our pride, then we can ask for what we lack. If we CANT SEE where we are lacking, our prayer is not as effectual, for the good of ourself and our sister, because we don't receive because we don't ask.
If we ask, He gives what we need and the ridiculous patterns change because we change.
You have not heard what I said and think I'm speaking unuseful nonsense. I have great hope that Lynn will see it as useful.
If we have hurt feelings, its because of wounded pride.
If our response to wounded pride is more pride, it never gets better, only worse.
When we SEE our pride, then we can ask for what we lack. If we CANT SEE where we are lacking, our prayer is not as effectual, for the good of ourself and our sister, because we don't receive because we don't ask.
If we ask, He gives what we need and the ridiculous patterns change because we change.
You have not heard what I said and think I'm speaking unuseful nonsense. I have great hope that Lynn will see it as useful.
D
You want to know what spiritually dead is?
Below is a good example of this
Joel Osteen nett worth $40,000,000
Joel Scott Osteen has an estimated net worth of $40 million. Osteen is an
American preacher, televangelist, author, and the leader of Lakewood Church
in Houston, Texas.
[SUB][/SUB]
Below is a good example of this
Joel Osteen nett worth $40,000,000
Joel Scott Osteen has an estimated net worth of $40 million. Osteen is an
American preacher, televangelist, author, and the leader of Lakewood Church
in Houston, Texas.
You can use any version with me Lynn. I look at many.
Ephesians 2 doesn't say our spirit was dead. We were dead in sin. Our human nature corrupt by death. We became a soulish man or woman. Connected to the world and reacting to our surroundings by our 5 senses.
I believe our spirit became "dormant" for lack of a better word. As I said before. Like a well without water. I do a lot of study about symbols. And interpret dreams and visions through scriptural meanings.
So the seed of the Word is implanted in our earth with hearing the gospel. Our well is filled with living water, we become spiritual alive to God, and begin to live by Spirit in this world. No,longer just a soulish being. And we are sealed within our Spirit. Gods ownership stamp.
The spirit is immortal. So we all will be somewhere until the final judgement of the nations. The body of Christ will be with God, not judged at the GWT.
Rev. says death, hell, the sea give up those in them, and then the wicked is cast into the lake of fire. That's why I said destroyed for its the second death.
I haven't really studied this out though. This formed just by reading. I.posted because I wanted to know if anyone else saw this too.
We are a triune being though Lynn. You would understand much more if you understood this.
Ephesians 2 doesn't say our spirit was dead. We were dead in sin. Our human nature corrupt by death. We became a soulish man or woman. Connected to the world and reacting to our surroundings by our 5 senses.
I believe our spirit became "dormant" for lack of a better word. As I said before. Like a well without water. I do a lot of study about symbols. And interpret dreams and visions through scriptural meanings.
So the seed of the Word is implanted in our earth with hearing the gospel. Our well is filled with living water, we become spiritual alive to God, and begin to live by Spirit in this world. No,longer just a soulish being. And we are sealed within our Spirit. Gods ownership stamp.
The spirit is immortal. So we all will be somewhere until the final judgement of the nations. The body of Christ will be with God, not judged at the GWT.
Rev. says death, hell, the sea give up those in them, and then the wicked is cast into the lake of fire. That's why I said destroyed for its the second death.
I haven't really studied this out though. This formed just by reading. I.posted because I wanted to know if anyone else saw this too.
We are a triune being though Lynn. You would understand much more if you understood this.
D
I'm a gardener, so come at dormant from that perspective.
We live in Zone 6 for growing plants. Zone 6 naturally has plants that take our winters. And our winter lows usually don't go to 10 degrees. So any plant that can't take 10 degrees or colder is going to die, and being a gardener, I'm not much for sticking to plants just from this area.
About once every 4-5 years, we get below 10 degrees for a few days. Add to that, I'm a container gardener, so the plants I grow are more exposed at the roots. (Not in ground. In containers.) Butterfly bushes are really Zone 7 plants. If I lived in Virginia's piedmont, (the lands below the Blue Ridge mountains, but not sea level), I could keep my butterfly bush for decades. But, nay, nay, I like them too much to not have them, so when the extreme cold hits, I worry it's going to die.
It does go dormant. No leaves or flowers on it in winter.
The beginning of January, we got a week of below-10.
Last weekend, it hit 60, so we went out into the garden. (My hubby, John, was thrilled to grill in January. lol) I, of course, had to check on butterfly bush! It lives. It's still dormant, so how do I know it lives? New growth. There were a couple of branches with more branch, and the end of the branches had new, green leaves!
Dormant isn't dead. It's retarded, (in the original definition of that word.) It slows down compared to how it really grows. But it grows.
Because of that, I tend to see dormant, when we're talking Christian stuff, as another word -- back sliding.
I also see "seed" as us, and the soil as God. And the living water is Christ, not something in us. Someone in us. A specific someone -- God.
You know I love you deeply. You...lol. This is funny. All this time, I've thought of us as roughly the same age, and we are. But I always thought of you as a couple of years younger than I. No idea why. But I was about to say you're a sweet, kind, old lady, with a chuckle over the word "old." You almost are old! You've only got 5-10 years before hitting old. What did you do -- pass me in age, when I wasn't looking? lol
Okay, getting back to serious.
I really do love you, but you know I don't like WoF. You just did what I don't like about WoF. You put the honus on the wrong one. The honus for WoF is "me." "Humans." The WoF "gospel" always puts the center of attention on people, instead of God. And by calling us dormant in sin, it is up to us to come out of dormancy, like that butterfly bush did. And to think we're the soil, or the keepers of the Living Water, then God becomes less than us.
Spiritually dead is dead. We can't come out of that on our own, and we can't come out of that through our own strength, abilities, effort, skill. The life-giver is God. He is at the center. And he gives life in body, soul, spirit, and plants/seeds. We don't help.
We live in Zone 6 for growing plants. Zone 6 naturally has plants that take our winters. And our winter lows usually don't go to 10 degrees. So any plant that can't take 10 degrees or colder is going to die, and being a gardener, I'm not much for sticking to plants just from this area.
About once every 4-5 years, we get below 10 degrees for a few days. Add to that, I'm a container gardener, so the plants I grow are more exposed at the roots. (Not in ground. In containers.) Butterfly bushes are really Zone 7 plants. If I lived in Virginia's piedmont, (the lands below the Blue Ridge mountains, but not sea level), I could keep my butterfly bush for decades. But, nay, nay, I like them too much to not have them, so when the extreme cold hits, I worry it's going to die.
It does go dormant. No leaves or flowers on it in winter.
The beginning of January, we got a week of below-10.
Last weekend, it hit 60, so we went out into the garden. (My hubby, John, was thrilled to grill in January. lol) I, of course, had to check on butterfly bush! It lives. It's still dormant, so how do I know it lives? New growth. There were a couple of branches with more branch, and the end of the branches had new, green leaves!
Dormant isn't dead. It's retarded, (in the original definition of that word.) It slows down compared to how it really grows. But it grows.
Because of that, I tend to see dormant, when we're talking Christian stuff, as another word -- back sliding.
I also see "seed" as us, and the soil as God. And the living water is Christ, not something in us. Someone in us. A specific someone -- God.
You know I love you deeply. You...lol. This is funny. All this time, I've thought of us as roughly the same age, and we are. But I always thought of you as a couple of years younger than I. No idea why. But I was about to say you're a sweet, kind, old lady, with a chuckle over the word "old." You almost are old!
You've only got 5-10 years before hitting old. What did you do -- pass me in age, when I wasn't looking? lolOkay, getting back to serious.
I really do love you, but you know I don't like WoF. You just did what I don't like about WoF. You put the honus on the wrong one. The honus for WoF is "me." "Humans." The WoF "gospel" always puts the center of attention on people, instead of God. And by calling us dormant in sin, it is up to us to come out of dormancy, like that butterfly bush did. And to think we're the soil, or the keepers of the Living Water, then God becomes less than us.
Spiritually dead is dead. We can't come out of that on our own, and we can't come out of that through our own strength, abilities, effort, skill. The life-giver is God. He is at the center. And he gives life in body, soul, spirit, and plants/seeds. We don't help.
Could you help us with what verses you have come by this opinion? For instance, I believe the opposite somewhat and would give a vs as...let the dead bury the dead, etc.
So it would help to get the verse or verses that led you to your belief.
Don't go looking them up. I'm fine with your own paraphrase and will recognize the verses!
So it would help to get the verse or verses that led you to your belief.
Don't go looking them up. I'm fine with your own paraphrase and will recognize the verses!
I have come away with a suspicion of what others call annihilationism too, stones. I mean a suspicion that it is true.
I think there are verses for before that moment and so we can maybe think those verses are for after that moment.
I also see that satan appears to actually be eternal, to somehow have eternal life in him. But I don't think we are born with that eternal life inside us. In fact, in the garden /god said what if they now eat from the other tree and live forever in this state?? So He mercifully denied the way to it for them and to me that is so they would not live eternally in their fallen state as satan appears to...
I think there are verses for before that moment and so we can maybe think those verses are for after that moment.
I also see that satan appears to actually be eternal, to somehow have eternal life in him. But I don't think we are born with that eternal life inside us. In fact, in the garden /god said what if they now eat from the other tree and live forever in this state?? So He mercifully denied the way to it for them and to me that is so they would not live eternally in their fallen state as satan appears to...
I'm a gardener, so come at dormant from that perspective.
We live in Zone 6 for growing plants. Zone 6 naturally has plants that take our winters. And our winter lows usually don't go to 10 degrees. So any plant that can't take 10 degrees or colder is going to die, and being a gardener, I'm not much for sticking to plants just from this area.
About once every 4-5 years, we get below 10 degrees for a few days. Add to that, I'm a container gardener, so the plants I grow are more exposed at the roots. (Not in ground. In containers.) Butterfly bushes are really Zone 7 plants. If I lived in Virginia's piedmont, (the lands below the Blue Ridge mountains, but not sea level), I could keep my butterfly bush for decades. But, nay, nay, I like them too much to not have them, so when the extreme cold hits, I worry it's going to die.
It does go dormant. No leaves or flowers on it in winter.
The beginning of January, we got a week of below-10.
Last weekend, it hit 60, so we went out into the garden. (My hubby, John, was thrilled to grill in January. lol) I, of course, had to check on butterfly bush! It lives. It's still dormant, so how do I know it lives? New growth. There were a couple of branches with more branch, and the end of the branches had new, green leaves!
Dormant isn't dead. It's retarded, (in the original definition of that word.) It slows down compared to how it really grows. But it grows.
Because of that, I tend to see dormant, when we're talking Christian stuff, as another word -- back sliding.
I also see "seed" as us, and the soil as God. And the living water is Christ, not something in us. Someone in us. A specific someone -- God.
You know I love you deeply. You...lol. This is funny. All this time, I've thought of us as roughly the same age, and we are. But I always thought of you as a couple of years younger than I. No idea why. But I was about to say you're a sweet, kind, old lady, with a chuckle over the word "old." You almost are old! You've only got 5-10 years before hitting old. What did you do -- pass me in age, when I wasn't looking? lol
Okay, getting back to serious.
I really do love you, but you know I don't like WoF. You just did what I don't like about WoF. You put the honus on the wrong one. The honus for WoF is "me." "Humans." The WoF "gospel" always puts the center of attention on people, instead of God. And by calling us dormant in sin, it is up to us to come out of dormancy, like that butterfly bush did. And to think we're the soil, or the keepers of the Living Water, then God becomes less than us.
Spiritually dead is dead. We can't come out of that on our own, and we can't come out of that through our own strength, abilities, effort, skill. The life-giver is God. He is at the center. And he gives life in body, soul, spirit, and plants/seeds. We don't help.
We live in Zone 6 for growing plants. Zone 6 naturally has plants that take our winters. And our winter lows usually don't go to 10 degrees. So any plant that can't take 10 degrees or colder is going to die, and being a gardener, I'm not much for sticking to plants just from this area.
About once every 4-5 years, we get below 10 degrees for a few days. Add to that, I'm a container gardener, so the plants I grow are more exposed at the roots. (Not in ground. In containers.) Butterfly bushes are really Zone 7 plants. If I lived in Virginia's piedmont, (the lands below the Blue Ridge mountains, but not sea level), I could keep my butterfly bush for decades. But, nay, nay, I like them too much to not have them, so when the extreme cold hits, I worry it's going to die.
It does go dormant. No leaves or flowers on it in winter.
The beginning of January, we got a week of below-10.
Last weekend, it hit 60, so we went out into the garden. (My hubby, John, was thrilled to grill in January. lol) I, of course, had to check on butterfly bush! It lives. It's still dormant, so how do I know it lives? New growth. There were a couple of branches with more branch, and the end of the branches had new, green leaves!
Dormant isn't dead. It's retarded, (in the original definition of that word.) It slows down compared to how it really grows. But it grows.
Because of that, I tend to see dormant, when we're talking Christian stuff, as another word -- back sliding.
I also see "seed" as us, and the soil as God. And the living water is Christ, not something in us. Someone in us. A specific someone -- God.
You know I love you deeply. You...lol. This is funny. All this time, I've thought of us as roughly the same age, and we are. But I always thought of you as a couple of years younger than I. No idea why. But I was about to say you're a sweet, kind, old lady, with a chuckle over the word "old." You almost are old!
You've only got 5-10 years before hitting old. What did you do -- pass me in age, when I wasn't looking? lolOkay, getting back to serious.
I really do love you, but you know I don't like WoF. You just did what I don't like about WoF. You put the honus on the wrong one. The honus for WoF is "me." "Humans." The WoF "gospel" always puts the center of attention on people, instead of God. And by calling us dormant in sin, it is up to us to come out of dormancy, like that butterfly bush did. And to think we're the soil, or the keepers of the Living Water, then God becomes less than us.
Spiritually dead is dead. We can't come out of that on our own, and we can't come out of that through our own strength, abilities, effort, skill. The life-giver is God. He is at the center. And he gives life in body, soul, spirit, and plants/seeds. We don't help.
Now, I don't know why you misunderstood what I said. Our spirit being dormant is not the "us". The us before our new birth is soul. And this world spirit rules until the gospel message of Jesus penetrates our spirit. New birth, but not just changed, a whole other new creation of God never lived before.
And how can anyone learn what Jesus has done within us unless we speak of it.
Yes, am 71 but not bragging, or maybe I am...I don't look a day over 70. Haha. I have no idea how old you are. Is just temporal things.
Hey stunned
thank you for your thoughts.
Maybe its just my medical mind, but I see death as something happening to the bodies of Adam and Eve. I don't think there was a sacrifice on an animal to cover their skin, but was given skin to cover the "natural" body. The Hebrew word is just skin. Just a sec. Checking...
21 ADONAI, God, made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. Hebrew to English. The KJV created the view of animal skin.
But, I've read teachings from Rabbi's that say they were beings of light. I tend to believe this for the fact that we are these now, and scripture says there is a natural body, and a spiritual body.
Plus, I think I myself have said that they were cut off from the presence of God, but we have Godvspeaking to Adam and Eve plus Cain and many others. How could this be if spirits were dead? He would have to physically appear.
But, again, is my thoughts. Not trying to make anyone believe this.
Its just not important. I will debate what we have now in Jesus. That matters.
thank you for your thoughts.
Maybe its just my medical mind, but I see death as something happening to the bodies of Adam and Eve. I don't think there was a sacrifice on an animal to cover their skin, but was given skin to cover the "natural" body. The Hebrew word is just skin. Just a sec. Checking...
21 ADONAI, God, made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. Hebrew to English. The KJV created the view of animal skin.
But, I've read teachings from Rabbi's that say they were beings of light. I tend to believe this for the fact that we are these now, and scripture says there is a natural body, and a spiritual body.
Plus, I think I myself have said that they were cut off from the presence of God, but we have Godvspeaking to Adam and Eve plus Cain and many others. How could this be if spirits were dead? He would have to physically appear.
But, again, is my thoughts. Not trying to make anyone believe this.
Its just not important. I will debate what we have now in Jesus. That matters.
I don't see the phrase spiritually dead in the scriptures, do you?
Now, I don't know why you misunderstood what I said. Our spirit being dormant is not the "us". The us before our new birth is soul. And this world spirit rules until the gospel message of Jesus penetrates our spirit. New birth, but not just changed, a whole other new creation of God never lived before.
And how can anyone learn what Jesus has done within us unless we speak of it.
Yes, am 71 but not bragging, or maybe I am...I don't look a day over 70. Haha. I have no idea how old you are. Is just temporal things.
Now, I don't know why you misunderstood what I said. Our spirit being dormant is not the "us". The us before our new birth is soul. And this world spirit rules until the gospel message of Jesus penetrates our spirit. New birth, but not just changed, a whole other new creation of God never lived before.
And how can anyone learn what Jesus has done within us unless we speak of it.
Yes, am 71 but not bragging, or maybe I am...I don't look a day over 70. Haha. I have no idea how old you are. Is just temporal things.
But anyhow as for your age, I looked at your profile a while ago and thought wow she only looks like she is in her fifties...Wanted to ask you what your secret to staying young was, but didn't know how to bring it up without looking like a weirdo...lol
Iggys are dogs? I would go to a land of dogs in a sec! And love every moment.
What I appreciate about decontroversal is his stand. He's completely assured salvation is by the blood of Jesus alone, no wavering. Plus, when he teaches, I'm amazed at what he has within him.
He tells it like it is...no flesh stroking. Which I detest.
What I appreciate about decontroversal is his stand. He's completely assured salvation is by the blood of Jesus alone, no wavering. Plus, when he teaches, I'm amazed at what he has within him.
He tells it like it is...no flesh stroking. Which I detest.
This is interesting you hear that term so much I never realized it isn't in scripture. I have seen a few places that say we were dead in our sins and trespasses, so I guess that is where the phrase spiritually dead is coming from.
But anyhow as for your age, I looked at your profile a while ago and thought wow she only looks like she is in her fifties...Wanted to ask you what your secret to staying young was, but didn't know how to bring it up without looking like a weirdo...lol
But anyhow as for your age, I looked at your profile a while ago and thought wow she only looks like she is in her fifties...Wanted to ask you what your secret to staying young was, but didn't know how to bring it up without looking like a weirdo...lol
Herbal Life skin care is great. Plus neurtrogena skin rotating cleanser. Not sure what to call this little machine. At least once a week. And body lotion every day.
No problem sharing.
Iggys are dogs? I would go to a land of dogs in a sec! And love every moment.
What I appreciate about decontroversal is his stand. He's completely assured salvation is by the blood of Jesus alone, no wavering. Plus, when he teaches, I'm amazed at what he has within him.
He tells it like it is...no flesh stroking. Which I detest.
What I appreciate about decontroversal is his stand. He's completely assured salvation is by the blood of Jesus alone, no wavering. Plus, when he teaches, I'm amazed at what he has within him.
He tells it like it is...no flesh stroking. Which I detest.
D
I don't see the phrase spiritually dead in the scriptures, do you?
Now, I don't know why you misunderstood what I said. Our spirit being dormant is not the "us". The us before our new birth is soul. And this world spirit rules until the gospel message of Jesus penetrates our spirit. New birth, but not just changed, a whole other new creation of God never lived before.
And how can anyone learn what Jesus has done within us unless we speak of it.
Yes, am 71 but not bragging, or maybe I am...I don't look a day over 70. Haha. I have no idea how old you are. Is just temporal things.
Now, I don't know why you misunderstood what I said. Our spirit being dormant is not the "us". The us before our new birth is soul. And this world spirit rules until the gospel message of Jesus penetrates our spirit. New birth, but not just changed, a whole other new creation of God never lived before.
And how can anyone learn what Jesus has done within us unless we speak of it.
Yes, am 71 but not bragging, or maybe I am...I don't look a day over 70. Haha. I have no idea how old you are. Is just temporal things.
Ephesians 2:[FONT="]2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.[/FONT]
That's why I asked what you thought Ephesians 2 was about. Obviously, not physically dead, or we wouldn't be doing anything.
"Souly" Dead? Might or might not be, but that goes back to I don't get dichotomy and trichotomy. And I don't get it because the words "soul" and "spirit" are interchangeable in the Bible, at least to translators. It's often the same word in original language. (Communications degree makes me a stickler for words. lol)
And let me compound the communication problems we're having. (Because, hey, we're just not confusing each other enough yet. lol) I don't believe in spirits the way you do either. AND, I'm not entirely sure if you're one of the types that give names to concepts/types by calling them spirits. So, I don't know, when you said, "worldly spirit," if you meant what the world is like. Or if you meant something like "the spirit of Jezabel," "the spirit of the antichrist," or "the spirit of fornication," as if there are those kinds of spirits roaming the earth like it's Dickens' London for Scrooge's Christmas. I really see no meat on that side of a debate.
Just don't believe in "spirits of," but you might also be talking about the way the world sees things, which isn't that kind of "spirit of" thing. And yet, not entirely comfortable with worldly spirit because it's not just some kind of ephemeral substances that can blow away in just the right breeze. It is -- for lack of better word lol -- the soul of people without God. (I hope you appreciate I don't get dichotomy or trichotomy, but do recognize we are more than just flesh and blood even before God gave us new birth.
) It's the nature of humans apart from the Lord, and it isn't one we want to change or see any reason to change.Which is why I think "spiritually dead", as described in Ephesian 2, isn't our nature was dead. (And I think we're using the same meaning when you call it soul and I call it nature, even though I don't entirely get the di/tri lesson.) Our nature remains in tact even after being regenerated. I'm the same stubborn, bullheaded, Mama Bear, but with a strong empathetic nature that I was before I was born again. But something awakened in me, I don't recognize from before the new-birth. It was absent/nonexistent/void before. Like I'm supposed to have three arms, but was only born with two. And that thing was what changed between that night I asked God to make himself as real to me as the actor on stage playing Jesus in the rock opera, Jesus Christ Superstar, to the next morning when God was realer than the dude on stage. Something showed up. A part of me that wasn't, suddenly was. Since it wasn't physical, and it wasn't soul or nature, what else could it be but spirit?
This happened to me --
Ephesians 2:[FONT="]2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience—[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved—[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.[/FONT][FONT="] [/FONT][FONT="]10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.[/FONT]
Genesis 2:17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
If you look at the words in Gen 2:17 at Blue Letter Bible, the site shows the words thou shalt surely die are the Hebrew words muwth muwth (the Hebrew word is repeated twice).
If you look at the words at biblehub, the site shows the Hebrew words as mō·wṯ tā·mūṯ and when you click on the link to the Hebrew word, in each case it links to H4191 muth.
My understanding of the repetition of the words in Gen 2:17 is that it means dying, you will die.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof dying you will die.
So in my mind, there was a death which took place immediately when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which then triggered their eventual physical death.
If you look at the words in Gen 2:17 at Blue Letter Bible, the site shows the words thou shalt surely die are the Hebrew words muwth muwth (the Hebrew word is repeated twice).
If you look at the words at biblehub, the site shows the Hebrew words as mō·wṯ tā·mūṯ and when you click on the link to the Hebrew word, in each case it links to H4191 muth.
My understanding of the repetition of the words in Gen 2:17 is that it means dying, you will die.
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof dying you will die.
So in my mind, there was a death which took place immediately when Adam and Eve ate of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, which then triggered their eventual physical death.