Has Jesus Christ returned?

[Ahwatukee]

In Matthew 24:15 Jesus Christ never said Let the Reader understand though. It was an Insertation by the writer saying Hey go back and look at the prophet Daniel, you're gonna have to understand this old testament book a bit better to understand what is being said here by Jesus Christ. At least not in the King James Version.

Excuse me! Those are the words of Jesus, including "let the reader understand." He is quoting Daniel 9:27 and is reminding the reader that the setting up of the abomination takes place in the middle of that seven years. It is Israel's sign to flee from Jerusalem and the area of Judea, because this the time Paul spoke of when the antichrist will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God.

The reason I find it all silly Ahwatukee my friend in Christ Jesus, is because people can use the scripture for their own benefit, and say well generation didn't mean for them, it is ment for a generation in the future, yet Jesus Christ says openly, this generation, or that generation there at that time, because Jesus Christ said This generation as if it was here (Now), but if you pretend your in the past like standing behind Jesus Christ and His Disciples listening in, it a total different perspective.

your response is typical. You said that it was silly that Jesus would be speaking to his disciples regarding events that would take place in a future generation. So, I gave you examples of where that was done elsewhere in scripture and you ignored it.
Did Isaiah not give king Ahaz the prophecy regarding Christ? And was that not fulfilled approximately 750 years later? Yet Isaiah said to Ahaz "the Lord himself shall give you a sign. A virgin shall conceive and bring forth a son and his name will be called Emmanuel." Point being is that, though Isaiah told the prophecy to Ahaz, he never saw its fulfillment.

You people are unteachable! Why don't you stop following the crowd and stop repeating their apologetic's and listen to the information that we are giving you and search it out and apply it. And regarding going back and reading Daniel, I've been reading it before you were born and will continue to study it. So be assured, I have gone over it more times than I can count, which is why I can provided this information to you and why I am adamant about. You don't understand it, because it hasn't been revealed to you yet.

The reason I find it all silly Ahwatukee my friend in Christ Jesus, is because people can use the scripture for their own benefit, and say well generation didn't mean for them, it is ment for a generation in the future, yet Jesus Christ says openly, this generation, or that generation there at that time, because Jesus Christ said This generation as if it was here (Now), but if you pretend your in the past like standing behind Jesus Christ and His Disciples listening in, it a total different perspective.

Then I would say that you need to go back and take English 101 all over again, so that you can understand sentence structure and grammar, because the generation that Jesus was speaking about was the one where those signs appear. And since we have yet to see any of them taking place, then we can have no fulfillment of those scriptures. The bottom line is, you claim that Jesus has already returned and that without any physical proof of the events that accompany His return.

There is an amazing list of events that must take place prior the Lord's return to the earth to end the age and we haven't even seen the first seal opened yet, which initiates God's wrath.

I have heard it explained to me once there was a man who said "Matthew 24:34 Verily I say to you, this generation may not pass away till all these may come to pass." Is one of the hardest verses into interpret.

The above is just a known apologetic which you are simply repeating and which is meant to circumvent the truth.

My advice to you, is to get off that bandwagon of these last day false teachings that have crept into the church, because all that has happened is that you have been deceived and have adopted their teachings.

You shouldn't be teaching these things, because you will be held accountable for it.

 

[MatthewG]

My advice to you, is to get off that bandwagon of these last day false teachings that have crept into the church, because all that has happened is that you have been deceived and have adopted their teachings.

You shouldn't be teaching these things, because you will be held accountable for it.

You are following a certain view. I am following a certain view.

But let us follow Jesus Christ, and love God, and Love other people, regardless of how they believe.

I'm not gonna take your word for what you are telling, me but I will take Jesus Christ and His words, and what He ment by them when He was talking to His disciples, I have decided to take it literally for them at the time.


There are so many people out there these days, and Christianity is Subjective.

Okay, so I am going to try to explain this one last time on what subjective Christianity. looks like.


From my original post under the Word of God,


I placed 5. Ist, Isms. This is the result of Calvinism, Arminianism, or whatever ist or ism. That can causes divisions.
6. Factions and sectarianism - Because of different beliefs because of division of ist and isms. Causing some to say this way is better, we are doing it right, that way is wrong you are in the wrong.


The Calvinism, Armininism, Protestant, Baptist, Pentecostal, Catholics, Trinitarinist, Unitarinist, are views held by the church they establish and can create for themselves, and teach.


I'm sure just about every one of them believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and God, but the thing is, they are not all going to have to same view, when it comes to certain things pertaining to the bible.


Say someone who reads the Word of God it and takes it literally, and when Jesus Christ says Cut off your right hand, if it offends, you, or pluck out your right eye, out and does it.


Well, what can you say, they read about what the subject Jesus Christ was talking about and took it literally, and subjectivly decided, to cut off his right hand, or pluck out his eye.




You can say, baptism, because not everyone is the same, there are still open different views about baptism. You can be baptised in Water, sprinkled.
Some even consider you must have to in order to be saved
You can be baptised by the Holy Spirit, and Fire by believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.
But people take what they do to heart, and believe what they will as far it goes.


There are people who consider you can get married again until your wife you divorced first dies off, until then you can not remarry.
There are people who consider you have to write your wife a divorce slip, before you send her on her way.
There are people who consider you have to get married in a temple, and have a festive wedding, and have it ordained by a pastor.


There are people who consider that Hell is a place this made of fire mixing it up with the Lake of Fire, when they are two seperate places.
There are people who consider that Hell is a place where people are tortured forever and ever, and it brings God Glory because of this.
There are people who might consider that someone who just passed away family member, that well You may not get to see your mother on the paradise side of heaven, but you can see her on the other side, when you are up there in heaven.

There are people consider think when you die, you go to sleep, and wait for the Lord Jesus Christ to come back rise out of your grave then, having a new glorified body.
There are people who consider when you die, judgement comes, either alone, or with everyone there around them, after waking back up to witness judgement day even.
There are people who consider when you die, you got to hell right away before you ever become judged, or see God.

There are people who don't even consider that the Lord's Desires can not be met. (2 Peter 3:9)
There are people who don't even consider that the places called Hell/Lake of Fire are eternal.
There are people who don't even consider that all people will perish who don't accept Jesus Christ in this life.
There are people who don't even consider that God can still work to draw all to himself, even outside our time-zone, after we die.


There are people who consider that God has only chosen elected people to go to heaven, and the rest to of the planet to go straight to hell.


There are people who consider that the Lord Jesus Christ is coming back, and that we need to prepared for the Rapture soon, because look at the world and look at the times going on around us.


I will say it always about love, and to love everyone who believes differently, and accepting them as they are, and how they are going to think or believe, or ask questions about things they don't understand, and may the Holy spirit, and other believers in Christ Jesus, to be able to help out others in those times.

This is just sharing some view points, and things I considered to included in trying one more time to sum up what it all kinda looks like one more time.


There are many people here in this world, and we are all not all just a like.

 

[Ahwatukee]

You are following a certain view. I am following a certain view.

No, I am not following a certain view. Everything that I have shared with you comes from cross-referencing and comparing scriptures.

I'm not gonna take your word for what you are telling, me but I will take Jesus Christ and His words, and what He meant by them when He was talking to His disciples, I have decided to take it literally for them at the time.

If you are seriously going to do what you say above, then you need to consider what the scriptures are saying. For example, you say that Christ has already returned.

Did you know that the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must first take place?

Has the world seen the two witnesses and the plagues that they are to bring?

Have we seen a third of the earth burned up?

Have we seen the sun scorching the inhabitants of the earth, searing them with intense heat?

Did you know that with just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, that over half the earths population will be killed within the first 3 1/2 years?

Have you seen or do we have records of those demonic beings coming up out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months?

Has a third of the earth been killed by those four evil angels and their army of 200 million?

Has the antichrist been revealed?

Has that angel come up out of the Abyss yet?

Has the world seen the mark of the beast yet?

Do you know that when the Lord returns to the earth to end the age, that the Lord's thousand year reign begins.

These are just some of the events that must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. And this is what you are not taking into consideration when you claim that the Lord has already returned. It's ridiculous to even consider it!

It is written that the Lord will arrive on the clouds of heaven and all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of him. In support of this, Revelation says that "every eye will see him - even those who pierced him. And all the peoples of the earth will mourn because of Him."

Go and read Rev.19 verses 11 thru 19 and ask yourself if that event has yet take place?

 

[MatthewG]

Did you know that the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments must first take place?

Has the world seen the two witnesses and the plagues that they are to bring?

Have we seen a third of the earth burned up?

Have we seen the sun scorching the inhabitants of the earth, searing them with intense heat?
Did you know that with just the 4th seal and the 6th trumpet, that over half the earths population will be killed within the first 3 1/2 years?

Have you seen or do we have records of those demonic beings coming up out of the Abyss to torment the inhabitants of the earth for five months?

Has the antichrist been revealed?

Has that angel come up out of the Abyss yet?

Has the world seen the mark of the beast yet?


To all of this I would say it all passed.

Who was the revelation written to and when was it suppose to come to pass, soon? or 100 hundred million years later?

There is a reason Jesus Christ, said that there would be no greater tribulation like they would see.

But I don't have all the detailed refinement to satisfy your hunger of the knowledge. But will say it can be found, if you dig around hard enough.


Here is a clue; if The REvelation was written to seven churches about times happening really soon and not far off, and pretend you just got the letters, and you read this

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Well this number is relating to a man, that would be considered the beast in that day. That is pretty intresting, but who was that man what was that Mans name?

They had to look and figure it out didn't they? From what I have been given Nero Ceaser Roman Emperor was the known beast, who's number was that of 666.

 

[Ahwatukee]

To all of this I would say it all passed.

Then my friend, if you think that those things have already come to pass, you are in a dream world. You, along so many others, due to a lack of study on the subject of end-time events, have no idea of the severity of the wrath that is coming.

If all of those events had already taken place, with Jesus returning at the end, it would have started the millennial kingdom where Jesus rules from Jerusalem from the throne of David according to the scriptures. In addition, we would now be beyond the millennial kingdom with the great white throne judgment having already taken place and we would currently be living in the eternal state in the New Jerusalem.

Who was the revelation written to and when was it suppose to come to pass, soon? or 100 hundred million years later?

"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass."

The book of Revelation was written to show us, his servants, to reveal to us the events which must take place, those events being the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and all related information. That which must soon come to pass, are those events that I listed, which must take place which serve as proof that we are in that time period, which you unfortunately think have taken place.

But I don't have all the detailed refinement to satisfy your hunger of the knowledge. But will say it can be found, if you dig around hard enough.

As I said, I have studied Revelation and scriptures relating to end-time events for over 40 years. So, I have already done my share of digging around, as you put it. You are just not being honest regarding these events, which is evident by stating that they have all taken place.

Here is a clue; if The REvelation was written to seven churches about times happening really soon and not far off, and pretend you just got the letters, and you read this

Revelation 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Well this number is relating to a man, that would be considered the beast in that day. That is pretty intresting, but who was that man what was that Mans name?

Except for the fact that you have the same problem, which is no fulfillment of the scripture. And speaking of that man of lawlessness, it is of him that the scripture states the following:

"And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of his name."

Regarding this mark, click on the following links to see the technology for what will become the mark:


Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Company to install microchips in employees

Now, since you can see the technology for the coming mark, how can you say that these things have already been fulfilled? At no time in the history of the world have we been able to fulfill the mark of the beast which without no one will be able to buy or sell. The electronic crediting and debiting system is what that mark is going to run on. It will eventually replace card swiping and cell phone bank apps, etc.

If the technology for the mark is still evolving, then who could the events of the antichrist/beast have already taken place?

They had to look and figure it out didn't they? From what I have been given Nero Ceaser Roman Emperor was the known beast, who's number was that of 666.

By the use of your numbering system, everyone from Nero to Obama, their names have equaled the number 666. The fact still remains that we have no record of the antichrist emerging onto the world stage and performing all that is written about him.

I feel sorry for you because you have fallen into and have adopted the false teaching of preterism.

Jesus is coming to gather his church prior to the beginning of his wrath which he will carry out via the seals, trumpets and bowls, which by no means have yet taken place. Once the church has been gathered, those who were not ready will be caught in that time period of God's wrath and will be exposed to all that is going to happen.

The next event to take place will be the gathering of the church, known as the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[MatthewG]

there is a lot i could say but i wont. God bless you, please done feel sorry for me.

i usef scriptures about the lords coming even talked about what jesus christ said.

youre contending for faith and i Get that, keep for your own faith in the lord jesus christ friend.

im over this topic now because i dont really want to talk about anymore until anthor time.

im played out by this because apperently even with scriputures i give and talking ahout what Jesus christ said and his coming to them back this is ever didntly wrong and error and i might just go to hell for it, but im not condemned by the way i beleive because my faith resides in the living hope of the Lord jesus christ.



one more thing regarding the scripture talking about a man with number 666 it says a man not men.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

there is a lot i could say but i wont. God bless you, please done feel sorry for me.

i usef scriptures about the lords coming even talked about what jesus christ said.

youre contending for faith and i Get that, keep for your own faith in the lord jesus christ friend.

im over this topic now because i dont really want to talk about anymore until anthor time.

im played out by this because apperently even with scriputures i give and talking ahout what Jesus christ said and his coming to them back this is ever didntly wrong and error and i might just go to hell for it, but im not condemned by the way i beleive because my faith resides in the living hope of the Lord jesus christ.



one more thing regarding the scripture talking about a man with number 666 it says a man not men.

Your end times views will NOT send you into the outer darkness. Not having received the Holy Spirit will do that. NOT your end times views. And that's from someone who strongly disagrees with your end times view!

 

[wolfwint]

It's a view (Just like other views such as Calvinism/arminianism) that has been around for a long time, but does not make a wrong teaching.

Blessings.

Regardless if see it from a different view or not, your own personal relationship with God, and Jesus Christ is what matters.

The teaching is coming from Jesus Christ, about His return to HIs Disciples/Gather Elect/Destory the Temple/Material REligion, not us... I'm not sure how many more times I'll have to say this.

You can believe Jesus Christ came, you can believe Jesus Christ is still coming, it doesnt matter do you. Do you and live your life, and Love God and Love Others.

I'm really dont have much to add, other than to say, go look at scripture for yourself, and dont believe me, or any one else.

Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, who is here for you now and wants to help you in your life, and His Father.


When reading the bible always ask, Who, why, what, when,where, and how it may help you as you go through the Holy Bible.

The op theme is: has Jesus Christ returned?
It depent not on our view our Lord returned ore not. Not our view makes it.
Bible clear speaks from a for people visible return of Christ. And this has not taken place till now. Ore can you show me were he stays now on earth.
That Jesus sent the Holy Spirit instead of himself, so that we can say withoutany problem Jesus lives in us, has mothing to do with his promissed visible return. Which is in the future.
There is mo single hint in the bible that this prommisef return already has taken place, also there is no single hint in the whole history that he had returned visible. This is fact and independ from what we believe ore what is our view. So if somebody claim that Jesus has returned already visible he is more then a false teacher he is also somebody who deceives the believers.
That Jesus lives in us through the Holy Spirit should be a fact for every believer. If somebody has not the Holy Spirit he has also not fellowship with the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Jimbone]

The Only return was Gods return as the Holy Spirit on the day of Pentecost.. But this is not the second coming spoken of by Jesus when all the tribes of the world would see Him coming in the clouds.. It is sad that people actually think that the second coming of Jesus has already occurred..

And it is a delusion to think this world is a great place to live in.. It is a fallen world with many evil people doing evil things to each other.. We live in assurance that this state of the world will come to an end one day if people think the current state of the world is ok then i do pity them..

You know what? I think it's sad to view the world like it's just "going to hell in a hand basket", sorry. Nothing you can do about it but pray. Right? No I think His Kingdom has come, what did He say about the Kingdom?

Isaiah 9:7
7 There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David and over his kingdom, To establish it and to uphold it with justice and righteousness From then on and forevermore. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will accomplish this.

Luke 1:32-33
32 He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33 and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”

What else does He say about it?

Luke 17:20-24

20 When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. 21 Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.” 22Then He said to the disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23People will tell you, ‘Look, there He is,’ or ‘- Here He is.’ Do not go out or chase after them. 24For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other, so will be the Son of Man in His day

Jesus also likened the kingdom to a few things,

Matthew 13:31-33
31 He told them another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, which a man took and planted in his field. 32 Though it is the smallest of all seeds, yet when it grows, it is the largest of garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds come and perch in its branches.”

33 He told them still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed into about sixty pounds of flour until it worked all through the dough.”

These two examples do not describe something that comes all at once. You say “it is a delusion to think this world is a great place to live in.. It is a fallen world with many evil people doing evil things to each other.. We live in assurance that this state of the world will come to an end one day if people think the current state of the world is ok then I do pity them”

I think it’s more exciting knowing Jesus did come and conquer, He did redeem the world He came to save, and NOTHING can stop the growth of His kingdom until EVERYTHING is under Jesus feet. The world is not “okay” now, but it is being made so. He also says “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit and teaching them to obey all that I have commanded you.”

This perspective has set a fire burning in me like “the world is bad, Satan is running things now until the day we are snatched out of our underwear, and Jesus brings His Kingdom all at once “, ever could. I have held that view and I do not believe that’s the plan He told us about. This view matches everything I read in scripture and has brought His word to life for me like I never knew it could. I think the view Jesus is the reigning, victorious, King of kings is so much bigger and more powerful that the other view you’re describing. I wont say I “pity” you, as you said to him, but I do pray He draw us all closer to Him in truth. Just my thoughts, and I do hope you have a great day.

 

[Jimbone]

Then my friend, if you think that those things have already come to pass, you are in a dream world. You, along so many others, due to a lack of study on the subject of end-time events, have no idea of the severity of the wrath that is coming.

If all of those events had already taken place, with Jesus returning at the end, it would have started the millennial kingdom where Jesus rules from Jerusalem from the throne of David according to the scriptures. In addition, we would now be beyond the millennial kingdom with the great white throne judgment having already taken place and we would currently be living in the eternal state in the New Jerusalem.



"This is the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants what must soon come to pass."

The book of Revelation was written to show us, his servants, to reveal to us the events which must take place, those events being the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments and all related information. That which must soon come to pass, are those events that I listed, which must take place which serve as proof that we are in that time period, which you unfortunately think have taken place.



As I said, I have studied Revelation and scriptures relating to end-time events for over 40 years. So, I have already done my share of digging around, as you put it. You are just not being honest regarding these events, which is evident by stating that they have all taken place.

Except for the fact that you have the same problem, which is no fulfillment of the scripture. And speaking of that man of lawlessness, it is of him that the scripture states the following:

"And the second beast required all people small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, so that no one could buy or sell unless he had the mark—the name of the beast or the number of his name."

Regarding this mark, click on the following links to see the technology for what will become the mark:


Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?...C5293894ECC971F10B69C5293894ECC971F&FORM=VIRE

Company to install microchips in employees

Now, since you can see the technology for the coming mark, how can you say that these things have already been fulfilled? At no time in the history of the world have we been able to fulfill the mark of the beast which without no one will be able to buy or sell. The electronic crediting and debiting system is what that mark is going to run on. It will eventually replace card swiping and cell phone bank apps, etc.

If the technology for the mark is still evolving, then who could the events of the antichrist/beast have already taken place?

By the use of your numbering system, everyone from Nero to Obama, their names have equaled the number 666. The fact still remains that we have no record of the antichrist emerging onto the world stage and performing all that is written about him.

I feel sorry for you because you have fallen into and have adopted the false teaching of preterism.

Jesus is coming to gather his church prior to the beginning of his wrath which he will carry out via the seals, trumpets and bowls, which by no means have yet taken place. Once the church has been gathered, those who were not ready will be caught in that time period of God's wrath and will be exposed to all that is going to happen.

The next event to take place will be the gathering of the church, known as the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.

He may have it wrong, you may be absolutely right, but what benefit is it to devote so much of your time to the end times? To me that view doesn't create much fire to go out and do what Jesus commanded us to do, to "Go make disciples of ALL nations", why would He tell us to go do something we would never be able to accomplish? Really I should say something that He was never planning to accomplish. He said make disciples of ALL nations not "go out there and try to save as many as possible before I come back to save you from the evil that rules earth, the evil I haven't dealt with yet. You seem to think it is finished, but just not really yet, but will be one day. It is done.... well almost done, it will be done in a little while. See what I mean, it just doesn't fit. My main point here is that this is mostly all I ever see you talking about, you're so worried about preaching a pre-trib rapture that you forget about making disciples of all nations. How does convincing other professing Christians of this help save the lost? Jesus clearly tells us to focus on the future right? Don't worry about today, worry about tomorrows problems right?

In my personal experience this view is like throwing a wet towel of the fire over the gospel of the Kingdom. I'm not just waiting for Him in a hopeless evil world, I'm trying to be used in every way He can to grow and proclaim His kingdom (that will see no end to it's increase) and complete victory over this world, His world that He redeemed with His blood. Praise His name I love our God!!!!!!!!!!! <gets up at work and does a joyful dance>

 

[garee]

Excuse me! Those are the words of Jesus, including "let the reader understand." He is quoting Daniel 9:27 and is reminding the reader that the setting up of the abomination takes place in the middle of that seven years. It is Israel's sign to flee from Jerusalem and the area of Judea, because this the time Paul spoke of when the antichrist will stand in the temple proclaiming himself to be God.

The rendering of the abomination that causes desolation therefore making the shadows that preached the suffering of Christ beforehand became desolate when he said... it is finished.The time of refomation had come. The use of the outward flesh Jews in parables as shadows was finished.

No more need for the shadows. The time of reformation had come. The pattern or parables used in ceremonial laws had their fulfillment .The veil is rent indicating Christ would come for that one time demonstration of the unseen work of God could do no more. .

Christ will not appear in the flesh anymore. The demonstration of the work of the unseen Spirit of God is over. The veil will not be mended.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The same tribulation the outward of the flesh Jew faces today .The veil is rent.


When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understandThen let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Mat 24:16

Its why he says flee to the mountains as all the kingdom of the world . Flee out of the temporal temple which was rendered useless when the veil was rent .They kingdoms of this world (everyone to include the Jews) will become the kingdoms of God when we receive our new incorruptible bodies.

But not all Israel is Israel , that did flee . The outward Jew who was not born again are those who gloried in their own flesh they were hoping their flesh could profit for something are still waiting for the abomination of desolation.

When Christ comes to give us our new incorruptible bodies that portion of Israel will be left outside. As those who did not receive mercy.

They who are dead in their trespasses and sin without God in this present world will not rise to new spirit life on the last day.

 

[garee]

Copy of last post..

 

[iamsoandso]

"The time of reformation",,,what do you mean by that?

 

[garee]

Now, since you can see the technology for the coming mark, how can you say that these things have already been fulfilled? At no time in the history of the world have we been able to fulfill the mark of the beast which without no one will be able to buy or sell. The electronic crediting and debiting system is what that mark is going to run on. It will eventually replace card swiping and cell phone bank apps, etc.

Rather than mixing faith (the useen, eternal) in what you do hear. You are mixing up the things seen by faith and those that are seen by walking by sight .

The mark is not a literal mark that awaits technology. It’s been in effect since day one. It’s the father of lies that wants to give it form so that mankind can seek after it. It’s a mark or sign of observation not a literal mark that we should try and literally avoid as if we did walk by sight and the Kingdom did come by observation. .

It is the mark of Cain ( 666 ) the number assigned to natural unconverted man as a beast of the field (made from the dust).

The mark is not for our benefit as outward (walking by sight) but the benefit of God who makes sure if any man finds the unbeliever he will repay seven fold . Cain remained a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth as a restless wanderer (no Sabbath rest)

And the buying ans selling has to do with spiritual truth .Only those with the mark of Cain would sell the spiritual truth for a bowl of soup like Esua. Therefore he is shown as receiving the mark of "no faith"

Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
And the LORD said unto him, Therefore whosoever slayeth Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold. And the LORD set a mark upon Cain, lest any finding him should kill him. Gen 4:14

Today it is tuned upside down and is used as a mark to kill or silence .God used it to protect Cain to make sure no one did kill him.

2Corinthians 5:7 (For we walk by faith, not by sight

 

[kaylagrl]

You are following a certain view. I am following a certain view.

But let us follow Jesus Christ, and love God, and Love other people, regardless of how they believe.

I'm not gonna take your word for what you are telling, me but I will take Jesus Christ and His words, and what He ment by them when He was talking to His disciples, I have decided to take it literally for them at the time.


There are so many people out there these days, and Christianity is Subjective.

Ahhh I see your problem,right there....

 

[iamsoandso]

The rendering of the abomination that causes desolation therefore making the shadows that preached the suffering of Christ beforehand became desolate when he said... it is finished.The time of refomation had come. The use of the outward flesh Jews in parables as shadows was finished.

No more need for the shadows. The time of reformation had come. The pattern or parables used in ceremonial laws had their fulfillment .The veil is rent indicating Christ would come for that one time demonstration of the unseen work of God could do no more. .

Christ will not appear in the flesh anymore. The demonstration of the work of the unseen Spirit of God is over. The veil will not be mended.

Matthew 24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

The same tribulation the outward of the flesh Jew faces today .The veil is rent.


When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understandThen let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Mat 24:16

Its why he says flee to the mountains as all the kingdom of the world . Flee out of the temporal temple which was rendered useless when the veil was rent .They kingdoms of this world (everyone to include the Jews) will become the kingdoms of God when we receive our new incorruptible bodies.

But not all Israel is Israel , that did flee . The outward Jew who was not born again are those who gloried in their own flesh they were hoping their flesh could profit for something are still waiting for the abomination of desolation.

When Christ comes to give us our new incorruptible bodies that portion of Israel will be left outside. As those who did not receive mercy.

They who are dead in their trespasses and sin without God in this present world will not rise to new spirit life on the last day.

I have things that I need to go and take care of so I will state why I was asking you what you meant by "the reformation had come" that is if you were referring to the "restoration of all things"(Acts 3:21) I see it as stating that of a future tense "until the restitution...". Now you are stating that this is past tense from the time that Jesus said "it is finished" but then "afterwards" Peter speaks of it as not yet fulfilled and after he received the Holy spirit that Jesus told him would be sent and explain all things. So also the Holy spirit is stating this after the point in time where Jesus made the statement "it is finished" and by speaking these words through Peter "...until,Acts 3:21" confirms to me that at that time it is seen as "future tense".

What you say then of the temple "flee out of the temporal temple which was rendered useless" is also as I see it not quite correct in that if it were rendered useless and then at that time they were to flee then they would have fled at that time but instead they remained in Jerusalem for many years and saw the temple completely different than you say, That is to James and Paul as also the disciples (Acts 21) they see going to the temple and publicly(Acts 21:26) being purified and an offering should be offered for every one of them as "not rendered useless" at that time also. So this seems to me to go against the things they thought about the same things.

 

[Adstar]

Adstar, You say the only return was God's return as the holy spirit on the day of Pentecost. Thank you for your reply.

The reason I made this post was to have information at hand, for people who may not understand about the Lord Jesus Christ, and His coming, as told by the Apostles.

I understand that there are many views and beliefs, when it involves talking about the return and coming of the Lord Jesus Christ.

There are some who say that it could happen tomorrow.

There are some who say that it could happen in their lifetime, some where.

There are some who say that it could happen and be raptured, and tribulations starts, and the coming of the Lord Jesus Christ judges the whole wide world.

There are some that say that it may not happen in their lifetime but it could.

There are some that say a one world govement will unite, and there will be a global take over, and the anti-christ raises up to power and bring destruction for 3 year 1/2 after a time of peace of 7 years.

Well i am in the group that belkieves it could happen in my life time..
But i do not believe it can happen at any time.. Jesus gave a set of clear signs of things that would happen before His return abd thats why he said that day would not be a surprise to His followers

1 Thessalonians 5: KJV
2 "For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. {3} For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. {4} But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief."

I do not believe any of these things will happen, I believe all of these things where suppose to happen to the people whom it was written to back then when they first received the message they got from John in revelation.

Well this is where we disagree... Everything Jesus said was to happen will happen and if one believes that it was supposed to happen to the people of the time of Jesus and it has not happened then ones foundational idea that it had to happen at that time is false...

The coming of the Lord Jesus Christ did come to pass!

Nope it never came to pass.. It is yet to come to pass..

 

[Adstar]

Ahwatukee, - herefore, even though the first century church believed that Jesus was coming back in their time, that obviously was not the case. And it has been the same for every successive generation up to this very day. It can't be claimed until it happens. - It couldn't have not been the case dear friend. They had to believed He was coming soon, even Jesus Christ gave them forwarning it would be with-in a generation that all things should pass before the generation passes away.

And this is the foundational belief that leads to the rest of your beliefs on the matter..

(Matthew 24:33-34) "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. {34} Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Jesus was not talking about the generation that was listening to Him give these prophecies.. He was talking about the generation that would see all these things That where included in the scriptures preceeding these verses..That would be the generation that would not pass away..

 

[Ahwatukee]

And this is the foundational belief that leads to the rest of your beliefs on the matter..

(Matthew 24:33-34) "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. {34} Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Jesus was not talking about the generation that was listening to Him give these prophecies.. He was talking about the generation that would see all these things That where included in the scriptures preceeding these verses..That would be the generation that would not pass away..

I'm not sure, but I think we are in agreement here with scripture in that, "this generation" is the generation where those signs appear. And since none of those signs have yet taken place, then that generation where those signs appear is still future. Along with the signs that Jesus lists in Matt.24, we also have to include the events of Revelation, namely the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are a more detailed account of the events of Matt. 24.

The facts are that none of those signs that Jesus told his disciples have taken place. And since all scripture must be fulfilled, then those events are all still future and about to take place.

The "ye" in "when ye shall see all these things" is to those who are living at the time when those signs begin to take place. Otherwise in order to make "this generation" the generation that Jesus was speaking from, we have to force the fulfillment of those signs without any actual fulfillment.

 

[Ahwatukee]

Well i am in the group that belkieves it could happen in my life time..
But i do not believe it can happen at any time.. Jesus gave a set of clear signs of things that would happen before His return abd thats why he said that day would not be a surprise to His followers

Jesus gave a clear set of signs regarding his return to the earth to end the age, not the gathering of the church. The Lord's appearing and our being gathered is and has always been imminent, about happen, on the horizon, looming, in the workings. There is no specific sign that needs to take place in order for the church to be gathered. However, since we can see the stage being set for the events that will take place after the church is gone, then we know that the time of our gathering is near.