What does this mean: "I have said, Ye are gods..."

[know1]

Physical healing is not a nature miracle. A nature miracle is calming a storm, walking on water, turning water into wine, making it dark night in the afternoon, making food multiply, etc.

I agree, it's supernatural.
You try to demean the miracle because it was a physical healing?
Perhaps you first missed the "immediately" part, and then the fact that no man can heal another by their own power, but by a supernatural power. A Godlike power.

2Ki 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
2Ki 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
2Ki 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
2Ki 2:13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
2Ki 2:14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

How about parting water?

 

[know1]

Read that in harmony with 1 Cor 8:4,5 not ignoring it.

So you are saying that one scripture is true and the other false because they say the opposite thing.
Paul was talking about the statues themselves as being dumb, and that they are not gods.
2Cor 4:4 specifically says god of this world. You can't have it both ways.
If there is no God other than God almighty, then He is the god Paul is saying is blinding the minds of them which believe not.

 

[know1]

Nobody in the New Testament parted water or made fire fall from heaven. Nor did any nature miracles, but only Jesus did. You failed to show otherwise.

My wife produced gas and drove her car without putting any in the tank. Twice.
What do you call that?

 

[JaumeJ]

If you understood what the water is, and how we all walk upon it and part it, you would not make declarations such.

Jesus Christ has given grace and ddtruth to all who will receive them. I have walked on water ever since He entered into me.

Sometimes the waters are rough, and sometimes the waters are calm, and when they have been in the way, they have parted. This is true for all who believe Jesus kChrist.

He brought to us truthe and grace, be fueled and always nourished by these, in Jesus Christ's name,amen.

 

[jaybird88]

Jaybird, you need to read the OT through completely. Over and over it talks about idols, and how they are not gods. Do you think these idols whether small household gods, or large monuments were mere representations? No! These people worshiped these bits of wood, silver and gold. This is a huge theme in the OT, which John picks up later on in Revelation.

“They have burned the gods of the nations, for they are not really gods, but only the product of human hands manufactured from wood and stone. That is why the Assyrians could destroy them.” 2 Kings 19:18

“3 Our God is in heaven!
He does whatever he pleases!
4 Their idols are made of silver and gold—
they are man-made.
5 They have mouths, but cannot speak,
eyes, but cannot see,
6 ears, but cannot hear,
noses, but cannot smell,
7 hands, but cannot touch,
feet, but cannot walk.
They cannot even clear their throats.
8 Those who make them will end up like them,
as will everyone who trusts in them.” Psalm 115:3-8

“8 Their land is full of worthless idols;
they worship the product of their own hands,
what their own fingers have fashioned.
9 Men bow down to them in homage,
they lie flat on the ground in worship.
Don’t spare them!” Isa. 2:8-9

“18 To whom can you compare God?
To what image can you liken him?
19 A craftsman casts an idol;
a metalsmith overlays it with gold
and forges silver chains for it.
20 To make a contribution one selects wood that will not rot;
he then seeks a skilled craftsman
to make an idol that will not fall over.
21 Do you not know?
Do you not hear?
Has it not been told to you since the very beginning?
Have you not understood from the time the earth’s foundations were made?” Isa. 40:18-21

“Don’t panic! Don’t be afraid!
Did I not tell you beforehand and decree it?
You are my witnesses! Is there any God but me?
There is no other sheltering rock; I know of none.
9 All who form idols are nothing;
the things in which they delight are worthless.
Their witnesses cannot see;
they recognize nothing, so they are put to shame.
10 Who forms a god and casts an idol
that will prove worthless?
11 Look, all his associates will be put to shame;
the craftsmen are mere humans.
Let them all assemble and take their stand!
They will panic and be put to shame.
12 A blacksmith works with his tool
and forges metal over the coals.
He forms it with hammers;
he makes it with his strong arm.
He gets hungry and loses his energy;
he drinks no water and gets tired.
13 A carpenter takes measurements;
he marks out an outline of its form;
he scrapes it with chisels,
and marks it with a compass.
He patterns it after the human form,
like a well-built human being,
and puts it in a shrine.
14 He cuts down cedars
and acquires a cypress or an oak.
He gets trees from the forest;
he plants a cedar and the rain makes it grow.
15 A man uses it to make a fire;
he takes some of it and warms himself.
Yes, he kindles a fire and bakes bread.
Then he makes a god and worships it;
he makes an idol and bows down to it.
16 Half of it he burns in the fire—
over that half he cooks meat;
he roasts a meal and fills himself.
Yes, he warms himself and says,
‘Ah! I am warm as I look at the fire.’
17 With the rest of it he makes a god, his idol;
he bows down to it and worships it.
He prays to it, saying,
‘Rescue me, for you are my god!’
18 They do not comprehend or understand,
for their eyes are blind and cannot see;
their minds do not discern.
19 No one thinks to himself,
nor do they comprehend or understand and say to themselves:
‘I burned half of it in the fire—
yes, I baked bread over the coals;
I roasted meat and ate it.
With the rest of it should I make a disgusting idol?
Should I bow down to dry wood?’
20 He feeds on ashes;
his deceived mind misleads him.
He cannot rescue himself,
nor does he say, ‘Is this not a false god I hold in my right hand?’” Isa 44:8-20

“You people of Israel, listen to what the Lord has to say to you.2 The Lord says,
“Do not start following pagan religious practices.
Do not be in awe of signs that occur in the sky
even though the nations hold them in awe.
3 For the religion of these people is worthless.
They cut down a tree in the forest,
and a craftsman makes it into an idol with his tools.
4 He decorates it with overlays of silver and gold.
He uses hammer and nails to fasten it together
so that it will not fall over.
5 Such idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field.
They cannot talk.
They must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them
because they cannot hurt you.
And they do not have any power to help you.”

6 I said,
“There is no one like you, Lord.
You are great.
And you are renowned for your power.
7 Everyone should revere you, O King of all nations,
because you deserve to be revered.
For there is no one like you
among any of the wise people of the nations nor among any of their kings.” Jer. 10:1-7



What good is an idol? Why would a craftsman make it?
What good is a metal image that gives misleading oracles?
Why would its creator place his trust in it
and make such mute, worthless things?
19 The one who says to wood, ‘Wake up!’ is as good as dead—
he who says to speechless stone, ‘Awake!’
Can it give reliable guidance?
It is overlaid with gold and silver;
it has no life’s breath inside it.
20 But the Lord is in his majestic palace.
The whole earth is speechless in his presence!” Habbakuk 2:19-20


And finally, John echoes these verses (there are more!) which talk about there are NO other gods. Any god is just a human creation, except for Jesus Christ! In fact, idolatry, doesn’t seem to end!

”The rest of humanity, who had not been killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they did not stop worshiping demons and idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk about.” Rev. 9:20

No God except the triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

i agree there is only one Most High, but who are these other gods mentioned so often in scripture? just wood with nothing representing the idol?

Deuteronomy 10:17
For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.

so this passage here is the Almighty, creator of the heavens and the earth, comparing himself to little carved pieces of wood?

 

[jaybird88]

I agree, it's supernatural.
You try to demean the miracle because it was a physical healing?
Perhaps you first missed the "immediately" part, and then the fact that no man can heal another by their own power, but by a supernatural power. A Godlike power.

2Ki 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
2Ki 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
2Ki 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
2Ki 2:13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
2Ki 2:14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

How about parting water?

didnt Jesus say His miracles were done by the power of the Father that sent Him. and didnt Jesus teach believers could do what He did.

 

[jaybird88]

My wife produced gas and drove her car without putting any in the tank. Twice.
What do you call that?

when i produce gas my wife would leave in the car.

 

[know1]

didnt Jesus say His miracles were done by the power of the Father that sent Him. and didnt Jesus teach believers could do what He did.

That's what I read.

 

[know1]

when i produce gas my wife would leave in the car.

Only a guy would say that, and only a guy would find that humorous.
You should have read some of the responses to one guy who asked if it was a sin to pick his nose in church.
Some of the things people were saying was sooo funny.
In a way, I felt bad for the guy, because I think he was serious.
I believe he never responded back to any of the posts.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

I agree, it's supernatural.
You try to demean the miracle because it was a physical healing?
Perhaps you first missed the "immediately" part, and then the fact that no man can heal another by their own power, but by a supernatural power. A Godlike power.

2Ki 2:8 And Elijah took his mantle, and wrapped it together, and smote the waters, and they were divided hither and thither, so that they two went over on dry ground.
2Ki 2:9 And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
2Ki 2:10 And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki 2:12 And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.
2Ki 2:13 He took up also the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and went back, and stood by the bank of Jordan;
2Ki 2:14 And he took the mantle of Elijah that fell from him, and smote the waters, and said, Where is the LORD God of Elijah? and when he also had smitten the waters, they parted hither and thither: and Elisha went over.

How about parting water?

Go out and part water and then get back to me.

 

[DevotiontoBible]

My wife produced gas and drove her car without putting any in the tank. Twice.
What do you call that?

I call that, **implied profanity**

 

[DevotiontoBible]

So you are saying that one scripture is true and the other false because they say the opposite thing.
Paul was talking about the statues themselves as being dumb, and that they are not gods.
2Cor 4:4 specifically says god of this world. You can't have it both ways.
If there is no God other than God almighty, then He is the god Paul is saying is blinding the minds of them which believe not.

That means Satan is a god to the people who are worldly not that he is a literal god since Paul says there are no gods that exist except God.

 

[stonesoffire]

If you understood what the water is, and how we all walk upon it and part it, you would not make declarations such.

Jesus Christ has given grace and ddtruth to all who will receive them. I have walked on water ever since He entered into me.

Sometimes the waters are rough, and sometimes the waters are calm, and when they have been in the way, they have parted. This is true for all who believe Jesus kChrist.

He brought to us truthe and grace, be fueled and always nourished by these, in Jesus Christ's name,amen.

You know Jaume, I wouldn't doubt for a second if you said you literally walked on water.

If the need should ever arise and our faith is high, all things.....

 

[stonesoffire]

I call that, **implied profanity**

You drive on methane?

 

[JaumeJ]

In due time, His that is, we all will, especially you.

You know Jaume, I wouldn't doubt for a second if you said you literally walked on water.

If the need should ever arise and our faith is high, all things.....

 

[know1]

I call that, **implied profanity**

See?
If I were to tell you that I did part some water, you would say the exact same thing, because you CAN'T believe. You have it in your heart that it is impossible for anyone to do such a think, so you call them a liar.
It just so happens to be a true story, and she is not the only one who has driven without any gas in the tank.
Thurman Scrivner is the only other person I heard do the same. Only my wife wasn't restricted to 50 mph.
Many things that don't fit inside you belief bubble are lies.
And even if I can prove you wrong with physical evidence, why do you keep asking for physical signs before you believe?
I would think those who want to know what the truth is, would be interested in what the bible says over the experiences and testimonies of others.
You keep asking for signs or some proof, I believe BECAUSE it is WRITTEN.
That's one difference between a true believer and one who says they are.

 

[know1]

I call that,**implied profanity**

Many things that don't fit inside your belief bubble are not lies.

 

[slave]

From both the old and new.
Psalms 82 referring to "all of you" son's of God and Jesus referring to "them" sons of God like Him.
I didn't know or see that yesterday.

It is a miraculous thing that we have been adopted by the Almighty God Himself in His family as Christ has become our mediator. But to be sure, as miraculous as it is that our union is as welded as the Triune Godhead we ourselves are not gods. We are apart of the family in which at the head is God, but only by God are we apart, even yet surely apart!

(John 17:21-23):

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one -I in them and you in me - so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

(1 Timothy 2:5):

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

 

[know1]

It is a miraculous thing that we have been adopted by the Almighty God Himself in His family as Christ has become our mediator. But to be sure, as miraculous as it is that our union is as welded as the Triune Godhead we ourselves are not gods. We are apart of the family in which at the head is God, but only by God are we apart, even yet surely apart!

(John 17:21-23):

that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me.I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one -I in them and you in me - so that they may be brought to complete unity. Then the world will know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me

(1 Timothy 2:5):

For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus.

I'm guessing you meant a part of and not apart from God.
We are a part of Christ's flesh or His body. We are in Christ.
And yes, there is only one Almighty God, and Jesus is the mediator.

 

[Angela53510]

Jaybird, you need to read the OT through completely. Over and over it talks about idols, and how they are not gods. Do you think these idols whether small household gods, or large monuments were mere representations? No! These people worshiped these bits of wood, silver and gold. This is a huge theme in the OT, which John picks up later on in Revelation.

“They have burned the gods of the nations, for they are not really gods, but only the product of human hands manufactured from wood and stone. .” 2 Kings 19:18

“4 Their idols are made of silver and gold—
they are man-made.
5 They have mouths, but cannot speak,
eyes, but cannot see,
6 ears, but cannot hear,
noses, but cannot smell,
7 hands, but cannot touch,
feet, but cannot walk.” Psalm 115:4-7

“8 Their land is full of worthless idols;” Isa. 2:8a

“18 To whom can you compare God?
To what image can you liken him?
19 A craftsman casts an idol;
a metalsmith overlays it with gold
and forges silver chains for it” Isa. 40:18-19

“Is there any God but me?
There is no other sheltering rock; I know of none.
9 All who form idols are nothing;
the things in which they delight are worthless.
, ‘Is this not a false god I hold in my right hand?’” Isa 44:8-9,21

“5 Such idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field.
They cannot talk.
They must be carried
because they cannot walk.
Do not be afraid of them
because they cannot hurt you.
And they do not have any power to help you.”

6 I said,
“There is no one like you, Lord.
You are great.
And you are renowned for your power.
7 Everyone should revere you, O King of all nations,
because you deserve to be revered.
For there is no one like you
among any of the wise people of the nations nor among any of their kings.” Jer. 10:5-7



What good is an idol? Why would a craftsman make it?
What good is a metal image that gives misleading oracles?
Why would its creator place his trust in it
and make such mute, worthless things?
19 The one who says to wood, ‘Wake up!’ is as good as dead—
he who says to speechless stone, ‘Awake!’
Can it give reliable guidance?
It is overlaid with gold and silver;
it has no life’s breath inside it.” Habbakuk 2:19-20


And finally, John echoes these verses (there are more!) which talk about there are NO other gods. Any god is just a human creation, except for Jesus Christ! In fact, idolatry, doesn’t seem to end!

”The rest of humanity, who had not been killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands, so that they did not stop worshiping demons and idols made of gold, silver, bronze, stone, and wood—idols that cannot see or hear or walk about.” Rev. 9:20

No God except the triune God, the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

i agree there is only one Most High, but who are these other gods mentioned so often in scripture? just wood with nothing representing the idol?

Deuteronomy 10:17
For the Lord your God is God of gods and Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God, who is not partial and takes no bribe.

so this passage here is the Almighty, creator of the heavens and the earth, comparing himself to little carved pieces of wood?

Yes, according to all the above verses I quoted earlier, which you did not read! So, I cut out the context (you can go back to the original post I made, or for that matter, read these quotes in the Bible, to see what they say.

An idol WAS a god, to the ancient Near East people! When Rachel left her father’s house, she stole the “gods” a word that is used interchangeably with the word “idols” in this passage below.

”[FONT=&quot]Now I understand that you have gone away because you longed desperately for your father’s house. Yet why did you steal my gods?”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]31 “I left secretly because I was afraid!” Jacob replied to Laban. “I thought you might take your daughters away from me by force. 32 Whoever has taken your gods will be put to death! In the presence of our relatives identify whatever is yours and take it.” (Now Jacob did not know that Rachel had stolen them.)[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]33 So Laban entered Jacob’s tent, and Leah’s tent, and the tent of the two female servants, but he did not find the idols. Now Rachel had taken the idols and put them inside her camel’s saddle and sat on them.) Laban searched the whole tent, but did not find them. 35 Rachel said to her father, “Don’t be angry, my lord. I cannot stand up in your presence because I am having my period.” So he searched thoroughly, but did not find the idols.” Gen. 31:30-35[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]
So, yes, those little carved pieces of wood, and stone, or representations in silver or gold for the rich people were “gods!!” There were no “small but real gods.” There literally is only one God, the rest is all made up lies.

And the people worshiped them, because they could not see the living and true God. If you knew anything about Near East history, you would know that each house had its own gods to worship. That is what God warned them about! Why? Because gods made of wood, gold, silver or stone are not alive! They do not hear, see, or listen. They do nothing despite worship and prayers.

Very sad that you persist in this polytheism. There is no big God, YHWH, and then some lesser gods. What there is, is one God, the living God who created everything, and nothing else but the stupidity of people who worship dead pieces of wood and stone which are idols, not gods. And totally worthless!

Idol = god[/FONT]