Has sin been paid for?
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Remember... Sin has been paid for every single person on this earth by the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, who has came and went since Jesus Christ died on the cross once, paying for the sin of the whole world (for everyone).
All that is laying in the wake of anyone now, is the fact, they just have lack of faith/unbelief.
Do you ever still sin?
1 John 1: 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
What else do we confess in our life?
Romans 10:9 that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved, 10 for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation;
Sometimes do you have lack of faith, or even a lack of love?
I know I fall short still of the Glory of God. The Glory is the Lord Jesus Christ.
I know we can still see our self has having sin, but Jesus Christ is in us now, and God looks at Jesus Christ in us.
Now getting in to the judgement of Hell for a person, I believe that is best left up to God, because I don't believe like everyone else on the matters of this subject, Lake of Fire/Hell.
All that is laying in the wake of anyone now, is the fact, they just have lack of faith/unbelief.
Do you ever still sin?
1 John 1: 8 If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
What else do we confess in our life?
Romans 10:9 that if thou mayest confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and mayest believe in thy heart that God did raise him out of the dead, thou shalt be saved, 10 for with the heart doth [one] believe to righteousness, and with the mouth is confession made to salvation;
Sometimes do you have lack of faith, or even a lack of love?
I know I fall short still of the Glory of God. The Glory is the Lord Jesus Christ.
I know we can still see our self has having sin, but Jesus Christ is in us now, and God looks at Jesus Christ in us.
Now getting in to the judgement of Hell for a person, I believe that is best left up to God, because I don't believe like everyone else on the matters of this subject, Lake of Fire/Hell.
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Hello MatthewG,
In the same way that you obtained the knowledge regarding salvation through faith in Christ, the same information regarding judgment, Sheol/Hades and the lake of fire, can also be found and understood, because God makes it known to us in His word.
While it is true that we are not to pass condemning judgment upon anyone, we can however know what happens to those who die without Christ. And we can know about Hades and the lake of fire and it purpose, how long, etc.
In the same way that you obtained the knowledge regarding salvation through faith in Christ, the same information regarding judgment, Sheol/Hades and the lake of fire, can also be found and understood, because God makes it known to us in His word.
While it is true that we are not to pass condemning judgment upon anyone, we can however know what happens to those who die without Christ. And we can know about Hades and the lake of fire and it purpose, how long, etc.
Okay, well I have nothing else to add towards you brother preacher4truth.
See as you see fit friend.
See as you see fit friend.
I don't even know your own background on how you believe, denomination, systematic belief, or view of scripture is.
But I know that you can believe how ever you wish and see scripture. That is why I like to share this scriptures here, and if you can explain them away for me, I would possibly change my views on the matter.
I highly disagree with Calvinism, you both may not be from this background however.
The other man, just said well nope He didn't pay for everyone, do you say so too?
People believe that God cast people into hell forever and ever and ever.
People believe that God cast people into the lake of fire forever, and ever and ever.
But these places have their own purpose set up for God, and I believe that the Lord desires none to perish but all to come to repentance as stated in scripture, and I believe everyone will, even if they did not accept the Lord Jesus Christ in their life and dying... I believe God can still reach out to that person, and that person make a change of mind into repentance, and come out of hell confessing that the Jesus Christ is the Lord for the Glory of God, or the lake of fire.
I believe in God winning, never Satan, or Man.
But I know that you can believe how ever you wish and see scripture. That is why I like to share this scriptures here, and if you can explain them away for me, I would possibly change my views on the matter.
I highly disagree with Calvinism, you both may not be from this background however.
The other man, just said well nope He didn't pay for everyone, do you say so too?
Okay, so the topic was about did Jesus Christ pay for sin?
1 John 2: 2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of the whole world (everyone).
So Jesus Christ died on the cross... His Father was pleased, at one moment (atonement), because the price of sin had been paid for by His Son, and this only happened once, on the cross.
The price of sin has been paid for, for everyone.
Romans 5: 8 and God doth commend His own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, Christ did die for us;
Even while we were still sinners, Christ had already died for us.
1 Timothy 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing.
Some people just have had yet believed on Him, and His Father, but as we know God is good. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, and God are even near, to the unbelievers just as well as the believers, because it rains on the good and bad.
God bless.
1 John 2: 2 He Himself is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not for ours alone, but also for the sins of the whole world (everyone).
So Jesus Christ died on the cross... His Father was pleased, at one moment (atonement), because the price of sin had been paid for by His Son, and this only happened once, on the cross.
The price of sin has been paid for, for everyone.
Romans 5: 8 and God doth commend His own love to us, that, in our being still sinners, Christ did die for us;
Even while we were still sinners, Christ had already died for us.
1 Timothy 4:10 for for this we both labour and are reproached, because we hope on the living God, who is Saviour of all men -- especially of those believing.
Some people just have had yet believed on Him, and His Father, but as we know God is good. I believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, and God are even near, to the unbelievers just as well as the believers, because it rains on the good and bad.
God bless.
People believe that God cast people into hell forever and ever and ever.
People believe that God cast people into the lake of fire forever, and ever and ever.
But these places have their own purpose set up for God, and I believe that the Lord desires none to perish but all to come to repentance as stated in scripture, and I believe everyone will, even if they did not accept the Lord Jesus Christ in their life and dying... I believe God can still reach out to that person, and that person make a change of mind into repentance, and come out of hell confessing that the Jesus Christ is the Lord for the Glory of God, or the lake of fire.
I believe in God winning, never Satan, or Man.
You are correct in that the Lord desires none to perish and all to come to repentance. However, receiving His pardon requires having faith in Him and repentance, but not everyone does. According to scripture, the opportunity for salvation is now, in this life while you're still alive in this body. Once a person dies without Christ, it is too late. There is no going back. And this is supported by scripture. For man is once to die then comes the judgment.
Can you show us the scriptures that would support your belief that a person can come out of Hades by confessing that Jesus is Lord? It is through the word of God that we get our understanding of every Biblical topic. Regarding your claim, I can tell you that if that were true, that there would be no such thing as Hades or the Lake of fire, because after being in torment in flame, not one person would refuse the offer.
God wants everyone to believe in His Son and not perish, but He doesn't force people, but says that He stands knocking on the door (of a persons heart). If anyone will open the door, he will come in and have fellowship, and that person with Him. But He's not going to force the door open or kick it in. Each individual has to open the door and let the Lord in.
We are saved by grace through faith and this not of our own doing, it is the gift of God. If a person goes to Hades in torment in flame, there is no longer any need to have faith at that point, because that person would be experiencing the results of their rejection of Christ. As I said, if there was an offer after suffering torment in flame, then Hades would be empty and no one would ever make it to the lake of fire. In addition, if this was true, then people could just say, "I'll just live my life and enjoy the sinful life and then when I'm offered a second chance at salvation, I'll accept.
As I made known to you before, the rich man of the rich man and Lazarus did not have a second chance. He didn't even ask for one nor did he ask why he was there, because he knew why. But he did ask Abraham to send Lazarus back from the dead in order to go to his father's house to warn his five brothers so that they didn't come to the same place. But Abraham told him that he had Moses and the prophets (word of God) to warn them. There is no going back! Once a person dies without Christ their record is sealed.
Another thing you need to do, is make sure that you are not posting this as a teaching, because if you are telling people that this is God truth, you will be held accountable for these false teachings. No consequences takes away the fear of God.
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My only response is that God is eternal, there is no limit to God, and some people place a limit on God.
I agree I'm held accountable to the way I see things, and they very different than the common beliefs that most people have, because I have been taught to look outside the box, rather than the rest of the group because of the Freedom in Christ Jesus that lets us be able to do so.
Here is my scripture response of those getting out of hades, (I would like to not hear anything more added to it because this is the only scripture I have, aside from pointing you back to Jonah.)
Revelation 20:13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
This is how I have come to the the decision to see that Hades/Hell is not forever (Also Hell doesn't have flame in it).
People make mistakes in placing the Lake of fire, and Hell together, which they are both very different places.
Heck brother Ahwatukee, you have even said Grace/mercy are shut off at death for someone who didn't accept the Lord Jesus Christ, which I would disagree with that, because you can't put a limit on God.
In fact no one can truly fully understand God, but I believe in Him, and I believe that He can get his desires met...
Regardless of what man can say, or that He would ever be stopped by Satan.
I hope this answers your inquiry.
No one has to agree with me, to make me pleased. I'm already thankful to see things from a different side of the board over here all the way on the Left, but some like staying way over there on the right.
It's kinda like politics, but we are the same and we aren't different because we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who came, died, and was risen again.
I agree I'm held accountable to the way I see things, and they very different than the common beliefs that most people have, because I have been taught to look outside the box, rather than the rest of the group because of the Freedom in Christ Jesus that lets us be able to do so.
Here is my scripture response of those getting out of hades, (I would like to not hear anything more added to it because this is the only scripture I have, aside from pointing you back to Jonah.)
Revelation 20:13 and the sea did give up those dead in it, and the death and the hades did give up the dead in them, and they were judged, each one according to their works;
This is how I have come to the the decision to see that Hades/Hell is not forever (Also Hell doesn't have flame in it).
People make mistakes in placing the Lake of fire, and Hell together, which they are both very different places.
Heck brother Ahwatukee, you have even said Grace/mercy are shut off at death for someone who didn't accept the Lord Jesus Christ, which I would disagree with that, because you can't put a limit on God.
In fact no one can truly fully understand God, but I believe in Him, and I believe that He can get his desires met...
Regardless of what man can say, or that He would ever be stopped by Satan.
I hope this answers your inquiry.
No one has to agree with me, to make me pleased. I'm already thankful to see things from a different side of the board over here all the way on the Left, but some like staying way over there on the right.
It's kinda like politics, but we are the same and we aren't different because we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who came, died, and was risen again.
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There is a "Yes" to this question, but do you have a follow-up question to it? I wonder?...We trample the blood of the Son of God if we think we are forgiven because we are sorry for our sins. The only explanation for the forgiveness of God and for the unfathomable depth of His forgetting is the death of Jesus Christ. Our repentance is merely the outcome of our personal realization of the atonement which He has worked out for us.
It does not matter who or what we are; there is absolute reinstatement into God by the death of Jesus Christ and by no other way, not because Jesus Christ pleads, but because He died. It is not earned, but accepted. All the pleading which deliberately refuses to recognize the Cross is of no avail; it is battering at a door other than the one that Jesus has opened. Our Lord does not pretend we are all right when we are all wrong.
The atonement is a propitiation whereby God, through the death of Jesus, makes an unholy man holy (pure). The follow up question should be "What have we done in allowing Him to become our life, after He has made it pure, and purely His?" For we cannot escape God's will in that He would have us participate in His Kingdom illuminating light and salt to the lost. But to think one can be in the dark and light at the same time forever is a daft consideration.
It does not matter who or what we are; there is absolute reinstatement into God by the death of Jesus Christ and by no other way, not because Jesus Christ pleads, but because He died. It is not earned, but accepted. All the pleading which deliberately refuses to recognize the Cross is of no avail; it is battering at a door other than the one that Jesus has opened. Our Lord does not pretend we are all right when we are all wrong.
The atonement is a propitiation whereby God, through the death of Jesus, makes an unholy man holy (pure). The follow up question should be "What have we done in allowing Him to become our life, after He has made it pure, and purely His?" For we cannot escape God's will in that He would have us participate in His Kingdom illuminating light and salt to the lost. But to think one can be in the dark and light at the same time forever is a daft consideration.
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You're just ignoring the word of God because of your personal belief. Whatever is written in the word of God, it is set in stone. He will fulfill it. This is why we can count on His promises, not maybe or I changed my mind. Since He has already given us his word regarding those who die without accepting His Son, that is not changeable.
I must say, you sure did pick the worst scripture to prove your point. That verse is about the great white throne judgment, where the unrighteous dead are resurrected out of Hades (same place the rich man is) and they will stand before God and those books that will be opened contain every deed of sin that they ever committed. You conveniently left off the part which says, "And anyone's name that was no found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Here's a hint, anyone who is coming out of Hades, their name is not going to be found written in the book of life, because they will have been in Hades for a reason. Here's the entire context of the scripture:
" Then I saw a great white throne and the One who sat on it. The earth and the heavens fled from His presence, and no place was found for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne.
And there were open books, and one of them was the book of life. And the dead were judged according to their deeds, as recorded in the books. The sea gave up its dead, and Death and Hades gave up their dead, and each one was judged according to his deeds.
Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death—the lake of fire. And if anyone was found whose name was not written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Just pointing out one issue, it says, "If anyone's name is not found written in the book of life they are thrown into the lake of fire." It does not say, "but God gave them a second chance." It says that anyone's name not written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. I notice that you have a habit of picking out pieces of verses and leaving the other part of the context out. You can't do that, because the entire context is important. Above, you only posted the scripture in part.
That scripture that you chose, is the judgment of the unrighteous dead. They are being resurrected out for their formal judgment, for since they are coming out of Hades, they will have already been experiencing the results of their rejection of God and Christ, which is torment in flame.
I agree with the above and teach the same. There are a couple of different Greek words all erroneously translated as "Hell," which are Sheol/Hades, Tartarus and Gehenna. The word "Hell" is not even from the Greek, but has its origins in Germanic or Norse.
Sheol/Hades = the place of departed spirits of all the unrighteous, its location being under the earth
Tartatus/Tartaroo = Used only once in 2 Peter 2:4 describing the place where God put the angels who sinned, which is most likely speaking regarding those angels who took wives from the progeny of men in an attempt to pollute the genealogy (blood line) of Christ. These same angels are mentioned in Jude 6 by description. This is a separate place from Hades and the Abyss
Gehenna = Also known as the second death and the lake of fire. This place was originally created for Satan and his angels (Matt.25:41), and will also be the place of punishment for all of mankind who follow him by rejecting Christ and living according to the sinful nature.
You're not putting a limit on God when you are quoting from something that He himself has written in His word. There is no grace and mercy after death, only judgment for those who die without Christ. Allow me to demonstrate:
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”A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name.”
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"they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath."
You see in the verse above which says that God's wrath will be "poured full strength into the cup of his wrath?" That means that there will be no grace or mercy mixed in with his wrath, and it will the same for everyone who has rejected Christ, because they will be going to the same place.
Now, do you see the verse where it says, "The smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever?" That means that there will be no end to their torment. This truth is further supported by the rest of the context which says, "And they will have no rest day or night."
Surely you can read just as well as I can and you know what the scripture is saying above. Therefore, when I am quoting what God has said in his word, I cannot be putting a limit on God, because He's the One who said and I am just repeating it.
It has nothing to do with the left or right. It has to do with what God's word proclaims. There is only one truth regarding these Biblical topics and you are ignoring what God is saying and forming your own opinion outside of his word. Nothing that you posted supports your claim of of God's grace and mercy being applied to the unrighteous dead, nor God giving them a second change after dying without being covered by His Son's blood.
Oh, but your not having faith! You are ignoring the word of God and replacing it with what you believe in your own heart. If you were having faith in the Lord, you would believe His word too. In the same way that you know that Jesus was crucified, buried and resurrected, that same word also claims that Hades and the lake of fire are real and that there is no second chances for those who reject His salvation. I have provided those scriptures, but you continue to ignore them. I'll tell you this, if you ever witness to someone about Christ and then teach them that if they don't make a decision now, that they will have a second chance later, this is a false teaching and gives false hopes and you would be held accountable for it.
I hope you will consider and apply everything that I have shared with you, because what I have shared is the word of God.
I agree, our repentance is merely the outcome of our personal realization of the atonement which He worked out for everyone.
Just not everyone has opened their eyes to see that truth sometimes I believe.
Right it isn't earned but accepted/believed/placed faith in Jesus Christ. He did everything, we didn't do anything.
Because of everything He has done and we accept Him, we can have a relationship with Him, and His Father anywhere anytime, when have been given the truth about how much God loved us, and How much He cares for us right now in this life.
Yes, we can share the Love of God, and Love of Jesus Christ with others in how they have changed our lifes, by being able to live a life with them because we have come to accept them in our lives, and understand even while we were still sinners Christ died for us.
We can share the good news of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done for everyone in the world. So amen, Slave.
Jesus Christ changes everything for a person!
Just not everyone has opened their eyes to see that truth sometimes I believe.
Right it isn't earned but accepted/believed/placed faith in Jesus Christ. He did everything, we didn't do anything.
Because of everything He has done and we accept Him, we can have a relationship with Him, and His Father anywhere anytime, when have been given the truth about how much God loved us, and How much He cares for us right now in this life.
Yes, we can share the Love of God, and Love of Jesus Christ with others in how they have changed our lifes, by being able to live a life with them because we have come to accept them in our lives, and understand even while we were still sinners Christ died for us.
We can share the good news of what the Lord Jesus Christ has done for everyone in the world. So amen, Slave.
Jesus Christ changes everything for a person!
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I will continue to proclaim and contend for the truth of God's word.
And where did you get the information that Jesus Christ paid for sin? It is the same place where I got all the answers that I gave you. It's the only way to know where God stands on any of the other Biblical topics.
In regards to being a "literal futurist" I read God's word in the literal sense until a symbolic interpretation is required. I don't just apply symbolic meanings to everything because someone said the book of Revelation is all symbolic. I read it at face value, which is what you should be doing.
At least you won't be able to say to the Lord that you weren't told the truth.
And where did you get the information that Jesus Christ paid for sin? It is the same place where I got all the answers that I gave you. It's the only way to know where God stands on any of the other Biblical topics.
In regards to being a "literal futurist" I read God's word in the literal sense until a symbolic interpretation is required. I don't just apply symbolic meanings to everything because someone said the book of Revelation is all symbolic. I read it at face value, which is what you should be doing.
At least you won't be able to say to the Lord that you weren't told the truth.