Not By Works

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VCO

VCO

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Ralph- said:
That's not a works gospel.

Even my opponents sometimes say that the believer WILL have works. And since that is true, Jesus will use our lives as the evidence to the universe as to whether or not we are saved, supporting his decision to send us either to the left and into the lake of fire or to the right into the kingdom. That isn't a works gospel. A works gospel is one where you believe that you enter the kingdom on the merit of your own righteousness. That's not what's happening in Matthew 25:31-46.
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TOTALLY WRONG YET AGAIN. Jesus will measure whether or NOT you TRULY LOVED HIM, so to see if you are Worthy for a Heavenly Reward, AND SALVATION is NOT a heavenly REWARD, IT IS A FREE GIFT out of HIS Mercy and Grace. NO ONE WITH GOD's LOVE IN THEM, WILL NOT HAVE SOME FRUIT OF GOD'S LOVE MANIFESTED IN THEIR LIVES. ONLY THOSE WITH NO FRUIT OF GOD'S LOVE IN THEM WILL NOT BE SAVED, which is the majority of those who call themselves Christian. SO, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD's LOVE IS IN YOU?
 
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AbigailZeke

AbigailZeke

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Yes. What you're leaving out of this, Ralph is that, we're outrunning you in good works without even trying.

Ralph- said:
So you are saying that person is saved, right? Be clear so I won't be accused of being a liar when I tell people you say that people with no works will be saved at the coming of Christ just as long as they believed.
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dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Ralph- said:
And we know who has justification, salvation, and eternal life by how they act. The person who continues in his old life is not righteous as he is righteous. They are not born again. They belong to the devil. John said so. But for some reason the church has decided John was wrong about that and that people who do live in their old lives are saved, too, just as long as they had faith at some point in time in the past. No, that's not true. John said that person is not born again.
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You can forget your hard fast rule.....men who are saved still fail and do wicked things...David, Solomon, Samson, Noah, Abraham etc. were ALL saved men and yet FAILED miserably at times.........wake up......saved is saved is saved...one work, two works or 5000 works notwithstanding.....different levels of maturity, different levels of understanding, different levels of growth, different levels of teaching, different levels of faith, different levels of spiritual strength<-----results in varying amounts and types of works....period

faith ALONE is what saves a man....anything beyond that attributed to the bolded above
 
R

Ralph-

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VCO said:
TOTALLY WRONG YET AGAIN. Jesus will measure whether or NOT you TRULY LOVED HIM, so to see if you are Worthy for a Heavenly Reward, AND SALVATION is NOT a heavenly REWARD, IT IS A FREE GIFT out of HIS Mercy and Grace. NO ONE WITH GOD's LOVE IN THEM, WILL NOT HAVE SOME FRUIT OF GOD'S LOVE MANIFESTED IN THEIR LIVES. ONLY THOSE WITH NO FRUIT OF GOD'S LOVE IN THEM WILL NOT BE SAVED, which is the majority of those who call themselves Christian. SO, HOW DO YOU KNOW THAT GOD's LOVE IS IN YOU?
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Guy, you've been resisting the wrong person. I agree with the part of your Calvinist once saved always saved doctrine that says the person who has no life of works/love for Christ is not born again. Haven't you noticed how many here do NOT agree with that?????

Salvation is a free gift. Christ will usher those who have that free gift, as evidenced by their life of love for Him, into the kingdom. He doesn't do that because their life earned that for them. Their life shows that they have the free gift of salvation and so they will inherit the kingdom when he returns.

And in answer to your question, you know that God's love is in you by whether or not you live a life of obedient love. John said so. But so many in the church say John was wrong about that and that not only are those who have no life of obedience saved, but even the one who has gone back to not believing will be saved when Jesus comes back. This is the new once saved always saved in the church today. Calvinistic once saved always saved is being abandoned in favor of this new grace doctrine.
 
R

Ralph-

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dcontroversal said:
You can forget your hard fast rule.....men who are saved still fail and do wicked things...David, Solomon, Samson, Noah, Abraham etc. were ALL saved men and yet FAILED miserably at times.........wake up......saved is saved is saved...one work, two works or 5000 works notwithstanding.....different levels of maturity, different levels of understanding, different levels of growth, different levels of teaching, different levels of faith, different levels of spiritual strength<-----results in varying amounts and types of works....period

faith ALONE is what saves a man....anything beyond that attributed to the bolded above
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You're not answering the question!
Ralph- said:
(what) will happen to the person who gets to the judgment when Christ comes back and they have no works, no changed life?
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Just answer the question. What's so hard about it? Clear the air once and for all and just answer the question.
 
R

Ralph-

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AbigailZeke said:
Yes. What you're leaving out of this, Ralph is that, we're outrunning you in good works without even trying.
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I'm producing the fruit of the kingdom through faith in Christ, not through my own power (that's impossible to do). Aren't you?

Are you the fourth type of soil in the parable of the sower? I hope you are, but are you?
 
dcontroversal

dcontroversal

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Ralph- said:
You're not answering the question!Just answer the question. What's so hard about it? Clear the air once and for all and just answer the question.
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I have answered about 5000 times in this thread regardless of your ability to admit the truth....

SAVED BY FAITH ALONE = SAVED ETERNALLY

ANY fruit or work that MAY or MAY not be produced regardless....

ALL who have BELIEVED have ALREADY DONE the WORKS of the HEAVENLY FATHER in exercising FAITH.....

DEAL WITH IT.......!
 
AbigailZeke

AbigailZeke

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Ehh, I don't think you even read my post. I'm hurt sniff.

Ralph- said:
I'm producing the fruit of the kingdom through faith in Christ, not through my own power (that's impossible to do). Aren't you?

Are you the fourth type of soil in the parable of the sower? I hope you are, but are you?
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stonesoffire

stonesoffire

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BillG said:
If I'm truthful then I would have to say no.
That's not me denying what you are saying.

I just do not get it.

I noticed DC liked my comment concerning this.

A while back I asked him about Romans 7 cause I didn't get that either.
He explained, made sense at the time but now still don't get it.

DC be gentle with me:cool:

Your talking to a guy here who for 36 years as a believer spent 31 one of them not believing God loved me.
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Romans 7

what dont you get about "you're dead"?

Then go to romans 8.


Teasing you...:)

Some people dont get dreams and visions. Not meaning that they don't occur, but Word pictures aren't useful.

I always say I am a bit slow in understanding so I get the book with pictures. ;)
 
R

Ralph-

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AbigailZeke said:
Easy. God will check the lamb's book of life and see if your name's there.
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I know it's there, not because I say so, but because the Bible says those who can see the Holy Spirit at work in their lives in a conforming to the image of Christ know they are saved.

How we live is how we know if we are saved and ready to meet Jesus when he comes back. Does your life show you to be ready to meet Christ? If it does not you can not know for sure if you are truly saved or not. Maybe you are, maybe you're not. Your life is how you can know 'for sure'. That's what the Bible says.

If you or anybody is living in a sinful lifestyle and doing it thinking 'salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you are always saved', and you do not respond with conviction and repentance to the truth that those who live in sin are not saved, you are showing that you are not born again. You are not ready to meet Jesus when he returns.
 
AbigailZeke

AbigailZeke

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I'm a word person. But there are many times when pictures (and videos) better express the words I can't lol. Like this one right here.

[video=youtube;78cGkuKJx9I]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78cGkuKJx9I[/video]

stonesoffire said:
Romans 7

what dont you get about "you're dead"?

Then go to romans 8.


Teasing you...:)

Some people dont get dreams and visions. Not meaning that they don't occur, but Word pictures aren't useful.

I always say I am a bit slow in understanding so I get the book with pictures. ;)
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AbigailZeke

AbigailZeke

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No need to get so defensive. I'm simply answering your question not questioning whether you are or are not saved. That's your job, remember. Lol.

Ralph- said:
I know it's there, not because I say so, but because the Bible says those who can see the Holy Spirit at work in their lives in a conforming to the image of Christ know they are saved.
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