New International Version 1984 Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.
Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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R
No, I'm challenging the church's doctrine that says a 'believer' can live in a homosexual relationship, be a drunkard, look at pornographic content, love the world, etc. and they can be saved because salvation is not by works, and once you are saved you can not lose your salvation.
I've been saying if you think that and live like that you show that you are not saved. John said it, not me. But for some reason the church has decided that he is wrong.
Thank you for coming right out and saying it! I mean that. Thank you!
The problem with this new grace doctrine is it makes John a liar. He said the person who lives in sin is not born again. Didn't you know this?
I've been saying if you think that and live like that you show that you are not saved. John said it, not me. But for some reason the church has decided that he is wrong.
Thank you for coming right out and saying it! I mean that. Thank you!
The problem with this new grace doctrine is it makes John a liar. He said the person who lives in sin is not born again. Didn't you know this?
R
Point made in my last post. I didn't have to drag it out of you (much) like I have to with dcontroversal.
You are among the many in the church today that believe John was wrong and that a person can live in sin and still be saved. it's the new grace doctrine in the church today.
And by the way, I do care that you are not living in your old life. You especially should be most glad. It shows you are really born again and ready to meet Christ, even though you say if you were living in your old life you would still be ready to meet Christ. Sorry is the person who thinks that and is living in his old life.
You are among the many in the church today that believe John was wrong and that a person can live in sin and still be saved. it's the new grace doctrine in the church today.
And by the way, I do care that you are not living in your old life. You especially should be most glad. It shows you are really born again and ready to meet Christ, even though you say if you were living in your old life you would still be ready to meet Christ. Sorry is the person who thinks that and is living in his old life.
New International Version 1984 Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.
New International Version 1984 Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
New International Version 1984 Mark 7:6-13 He replied, “Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you hypocrites; as it is written: “‘These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They worship me in vain; their teachings are but rules taught by men.’ You have let go of the commands of God and are holding on to the traditions of men.” And he said to them: “You have a fine way of setting aside the commands of God in order to observe your own traditions! For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death.’ But you say that if a man says to his father or mother: ‘Whatever help you might otherwise have received from me is Corban’ (that is, a gift devoted to God), then you no longer let him do anything for his father or mother. Thus you nullify the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And you do many things like that.”
Am not taking sides in debates where people are saying the sane thing differently and here's why:
To believe means to follow, to follow means to become a disciple, to be a disciple means to be disciplined by the Lord, so that we will not be condemned with the world. To be disciplined by the Lord means to suffer with Him. To suffer with Him means to Love our enemies. Now we are back at the beginning of the sentence. "That whosoever believes in Him should not live a selfish existence. This selfish existence can be with dead works under the law.
If you have not yet understood why debates about the law are unfruitful, its because we don't know God in our understanding and debates are only healthy when both sides recognize their limited view, "Now we see dimly." ""Now we know in part." "If any man thinks he knows he does not know as He should." To think we know, is to stop learning. The fact that people think they know they are eternally secure is enough to recognise they don't know as they should. But we know that Jesus is eternally secure and that if we abide in Him we will bear fruit that will last forever.
To believe means to follow, to follow means to become a disciple, to be a disciple means to be disciplined by the Lord, so that we will not be condemned with the world. To be disciplined by the Lord means to suffer with Him. To suffer with Him means to Love our enemies. Now we are back at the beginning of the sentence. "That whosoever believes in Him should not live a selfish existence. This selfish existence can be with dead works under the law.
If you have not yet understood why debates about the law are unfruitful, its because we don't know God in our understanding and debates are only healthy when both sides recognize their limited view, "Now we see dimly." ""Now we know in part." "If any man thinks he knows he does not know as He should." To think we know, is to stop learning. The fact that people think they know they are eternally secure is enough to recognise they don't know as they should. But we know that Jesus is eternally secure and that if we abide in Him we will bear fruit that will last forever.
Ahh, I see where you're coming from. And I agree, that's not the fruit of a true believer.
That's correct. How else did you expect the woman at the well was saved?
True as well. I'm not repeating the thousands of references to that throughout this thread.
I agree again. I will add though that although salvation is instantaneous, heart transformation may not always be. Some trees take more time to produce fruit than others.
Not my church.
Okay... glad to be of help?
Ah, you see. I'm a believer of the grace doctrine and I agree with John too. Grace is not a license to sin. Did you know this?
That's correct. How else did you expect the woman at the well was saved?
True as well. I'm not repeating the thousands of references to that throughout this thread.
I agree again. I will add though that although salvation is instantaneous, heart transformation may not always be. Some trees take more time to produce fruit than others.
Not my church.
Okay... glad to be of help?
Ah, you see. I'm a believer of the grace doctrine and I agree with John too. Grace is not a license to sin. Did you know this?