NEW PRETRIB RAPTURE EVIDENCE!!!

[valleyofdecision]

Neither of you embrace the fact that all take the mark.
All on the planet take the mark
( according to the word).
Where would these supposed christians be hiding?

They are the innumerable number left behind,and martyred. It even says they had dirty robes and came out of Great Tribulation.
Millions? Billions?
End of church age happens very quickly.
Early on.
Church disappears off the earth

Rev 20:1-4

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

 

[valleyofdecision]

The foolish asked the wise for oil,or an impartation ov what they had abundance of.
The Holy Spirit is transferrable. Salvation is not.
Yet another reason we can see the foolish are in fact saved born again believers.

Folks,if doctrine trips up a simple parable,change churches

If the foolish wee believers they would have been let in, but they were not.

 

[valleyofdecision]

I recall somewhere in scripture there was someone who was trying to buy the Holy Spirit... he wanted the gifts, and was rebuked by one of the disciples. Maybe someone can help me out. Simon? Stephen? Not related to this parable, but just came to mind now...

Acts 8 and it was Peter rebuking Simon.

 

[heartofdavid]

If the foolish wee believers they would have been let in, but they were not.

That means unbelievers have light,oil (the Holy Spirit),are virgins ( pure and undefiled), and are going out with believers and waiting for Jesus.
It also means they are asking believers to impart something to them that they ran out of.

Quite a bizarre stretch.
Better to leave the parable alone.
That dog wont hunt

 

[heartofdavid]

Rev 20:1-4

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

What translation is that?
It is Causing confusion

 

[valleyofdecision]

That means unbelievers have light,oil (the Holy Spirit),are virgins ( pure and undefiled), and are going out with believers and waiting for Jesus.
It also means they are asking believers to impart something to them that they ran out of.

Quite a bizarre stretch.
Better to leave the parable alone.
That dog wont hunt

You do know this parable is rightly divided with the wheat and the tares , right?

 

[valleyofdecision]

What translation is that?
It is Causing confusion

The only confusion abounding is your lack of truly reading and studying the word and it is rather obvious, you are being spoon fed communicated Bible knowledge.

NASB:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

KJV:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is the second time you have claimed it was a translation causing confusion.

As we can see, you really just stick with what someone else has told you, because twice now, you have discovered something "new" for you in the word.

You need to study on your own and see what the Bible, whatever translation, you use and become knowledgeable.

 

[heartofdavid]

John does not say their number is incomplete. Rem, there are at least two may three types of tribulation saints. Read the text real slow and you will see it.

I looked it up.
My post is correct.
The greek says " up ceasing" meaning staying down,or resting.
And yes they are told " until your number is completed."

Why would you think it needs to be something else?

 

[heartofdavid]

BTW GUYS, That further bolsters my claim in that Jesus does not avenge them until their number is completed,but y'all got Jesus returning,in wrath,and thet are not even resurrected yet.

 

[Bladerunner]

I looked it up.
My post is correct.
The greek says " up ceasing" meaning staying down,or resting.
And yes they are told " until your number is completed."

Why would you think it needs to be something else?

Here, let me help you,,,,,


Rev 6: 9-11..."And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: v.10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? v11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."


This represents all the tribulation saints that will be killed during the time of Daniel's 70th week.

 

[heartofdavid]

You do know this parable is rightly divided with the wheat and the tares , right?

That is GWT JUDGEMENT.
Tares are burned. ( lof)
The tares were gathered up and burned.
The 5 foolish were never gathered or judged.
One is strictly a wedding dynamic
The other strictly a judgement dynamic

 

[heartofdavid]

Here, let me help you,,,,,


Rev 6: 9-11..."And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: v.10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? v11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled."


This represents all the tribulation saints that will be killed during the time of Daniel's 70th week.

And yet martyrs too numerous to count are in heaven killed DURING THE GT.
But you say some are resurrected after the GT.

Sorry,i don't see it your way.

The greek can be translated fulfilled or completed.
Either way,it seems the innumerable number under your template needed to wait maybe?

 

[finaldesire]

Take a fresh look at these verses;

Rev 7;9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

Now we know from 1 thes 4 that the dead rise FIRST.

That means these innumerable one HAD TO ARRIVE AFTER THE RAPTURE.
What a heavy revvie. LOL

I don't understand any of this, please help me understand what you are talking about.

 

[Ahwatukee]

And yet martyrs too numerous to count are in heaven killed DURING THE GT.
But you say some are resurrected after the GT.

Heartofdavid, John is seeing a "vision" of the great tribulation saints prior to the great tribulation taking place. They couldn't have already gone through the great tribulation, because John is seeing them after the sixth seal and before the seventh seal.

John is seeing those who will have been killed during the great tribulation before it happens. It's a vision of the future before it takes place.

 

[heartofdavid]

The only confusion abounding is your lack of truly reading and studying the word and it is rather obvious, you are being spoon fed communicated Bible knowledge.

NASB:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony of Jesus and because of the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand; and they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

KJV:
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

This is the second time you have claimed it was a translation causing confusion.

As we can see, you really just stick with what someone else has told you, because twice now, you have discovered something "new" for you in the word.

You need to study on your own and see what the Bible, whatever translation, you use and become knowledgeable.

ceiracheiraG5495n_ Acc Sg fHANDautwnautOnG846pp Gen Pl mOF-themkaikaiG2532ConjANDalsoezhsanezEsanG2198vi Aor Act 3 PlTHEY-LIVEkaikaiG2532ConjANDebasileusanebasileusanG936vi Aor Act 3 PlreignmetametaG3326PrepWITHcristouchristouG5547n_ Gen Sg mANOINTEDChristciliachiliaG5507a_ Acc Pl nTHOUSANDthousand(p)ethetEG2094n_ Acc Pl n

Look it up yourself.
I already did.
I go to the greek for clarification.

 

[heartofdavid]

I don't understand any of this, please help me understand what you are talking about.

It is sequential.
The dead rise first in the rapture.

We see martyrs IN HEAVEN during the GT.

If the dead rise first, Then those MARTYRS must arrive after the rapture.

 

[heartofdavid]

Heartofdavid, John is seeing a "vision" of the great tribulation saints prior to the great tribulation taking place. They couldn't have already gone through the great tribulation, because John is seeing them after the sixth seal and before the seventh seal.

John is seeing those who will have been killed during the great tribulation before it happens. It's a vision of the future before it takes place.

Not sure which group you are talking about. (they)

Also not sure of your point.

 

[heartofdavid]

Posted by valleyofdecision This is the second time you have claimed it was a translation causing confusion.

As we can see, you really just stick with what someone else has told you, because twice now, you have discovered something "new" for you in the word.

You need to study on your own and see what the Bible, whatever translation, you use and become knowledgeable.

ceiracheiraG5495n_ Acc Sg fHANDautwnautOnG846pp Gen Pl mOF-themkaikaiG2532ConjANDalsoezhsanezEsanG2198vi Aor Act 3 PlTHEY-LIVEkaikaiG2532ConjANDebasileusanebasileusanG936vi Aor Act 3 PlreignmetametaG3326PrepWITHcristouchristouG5547n_ Gen Sg mANOINTEDChristciliachiliaG5507a_ Acc Pl nTHOUSANDthousand(p)ethetEG2094n_ Acc Pl n

Look it up yourself.
I already did.
I go to the greek for clarification.

Yes we can see someone needs to get a greek interlinear.
We won't mention any names though

 

[Ahwatukee]

Not sure which group you are talking about. (they)

Also not sure of your point.

Well, seeing that there is only one group referred to as the great tribulation saints, it should be easy to know who I am referring to.

"So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

And my point being that, John is seeing a preview of these saints who come out of the great tribulation, which from the time line of Revelation hasn't taken place yet.

 

[heartofdavid]

Yes it hasn't happened yet.
It is future