Then in post #222 of http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153312-mark-beast-12.html why are you saying that people are already being implanted with the mark and defending that you will be raptured before this all begins?
Matthew Chapter 24 ; Thoughts?
- Thread starter MatthewG
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Then in post #222 of http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/153312-mark-beast-12.html why are you saying that people are already being implanted with the mark and defending that you will be raptured before this all begins?
Did you watch the following videos regarding people being implanted, which allows them to make purchases by scanning their hands? This is the technology that will evolve into the mark. The electronic crediting and debiting system that is currently in place is what the mark will run on. This technology for the mark is getting set up in preparation for that coming antichrist.
Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...971F&FORM=VIRE
Company to install microchips in employees
The reason that the church will be gathered prior to when the mark becomes the only method of buying and selling, is because during that time God will also be unleashing his wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments upon the world, which the church is not appointed to suffer and that because the mark will become mandatory during the time of God's wrath. The conclusion is that the cannot be here during that time. See Rom.5:9, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9, Rev.3:10 regarding the church and God's wrath.
Swedish office staff offered implants to access facilities - BBC News
https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...971F&FORM=VIRE
Company to install microchips in employees
The reason that the church will be gathered prior to when the mark becomes the only method of buying and selling, is because during that time God will also be unleashing his wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments upon the world, which the church is not appointed to suffer and that because the mark will become mandatory during the time of God's wrath. The conclusion is that the cannot be here during that time. See Rom.5:9, 1 Thessalonians 1:10, 5:9, Rev.3:10 regarding the church and God's wrath.
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lol.In reality though if you really believe that all the stuff in the videos are correct in that they are leading up to the mark then the beast who is setting this all in motion is already here and going through those motions. Now that would cause a problem with the fact that you aren't suppose to be here but already raptured....
Well, the technology for this system had to evolve in preparation for when it will become the mark. This electronic crediting and debiting system couldn't just pop up over night. The technology for the UPC system and the POS with its Verifone and other devices, had to evolve in preparation for that coming antichrist and will continue to do so until he is revealed. By that time the system will be completely ready to control all electronic crediting and debiting world-wide.
Obviously the church has been here to see this system evolve, but It is during the time in which the antichrist will be here and that mark becomes mandatory for electronic crediting and debiting that the church won't be here to be exposed to. And since we can see the stage beings set for that time period and we cannot be here for it, then how close are we to the church being gathered? Very close!
The bottom line is that, the technology for this electronic crediting and debiting had to evolve, which is partially what Daniel is referring to when he says that in the last days "Many will go here and there to increase knowledge."
You may not have seen this timeline before, so i will put the image here for you.
i have asked others as well, and will ask you to, if you can find one verse that is contrary to what is in the Timeline, i would like to see it. As of right now, there is not one verse that is contrary to what is in the Timeline. Now granted what people believe to be the TRUTH, and their own interpretation will contradict what is in the Timeline. But Scriptures does not contradict. Most of what is in the Timeline is what God told me is going to Happen and when it is going to happen. But i would not listen to any person who is still living in sin, thinking they know the TRUTH.
God will reveal to whom God will reveal His secrets, but woe to those who try to gain secrets of God through their own intellect, their own studies, their own beliefs. These will be more deceived then many others. And a double woe to them that teach things that are contrary to Scriptures. They will not escape the wrath of God, even though they are not appointed to wrath. No born again Christian is appointed to wrath, UNLESS they freely choose to live in sin, bringing wrath upon their own selves. If you sow to the flesh of the flesh you SHALL reap corruption. God is not a liar, and He will do it.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
i have asked others as well, and will ask you to, if you can find one verse that is contrary to what is in the Timeline, i would like to see it. As of right now, there is not one verse that is contrary to what is in the Timeline. Now granted what people believe to be the TRUTH, and their own interpretation will contradict what is in the Timeline. But Scriptures does not contradict. Most of what is in the Timeline is what God told me is going to Happen and when it is going to happen. But i would not listen to any person who is still living in sin, thinking they know the TRUTH.
God will reveal to whom God will reveal His secrets, but woe to those who try to gain secrets of God through their own intellect, their own studies, their own beliefs. These will be more deceived then many others. And a double woe to them that teach things that are contrary to Scriptures. They will not escape the wrath of God, even though they are not appointed to wrath. No born again Christian is appointed to wrath, UNLESS they freely choose to live in sin, bringing wrath upon their own selves. If you sow to the flesh of the flesh you SHALL reap corruption. God is not a liar, and He will do it.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
What Ahwatukee fails to understand is that the Coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, the gathering to Him, the Day of the Lord. Are all the SAME DAY, the same event. He, for some ungodly reason, separates all those things into different times. When in Truth they are all the same event, same Day. When Jesus Comes back the second time, He will gather the Church, and that Day is called the Day of the Lord. That DAY will not happen except there be a falling away first and the antichrist revealed.
What he teaches is plainly contrary to Scriptures.
Scriptures Plainly and Clearly teach this:
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
What it plainly says is what it plainly means. But Ahwatukee interprets these verses to mean something other than what these verses actually say and teach. Ahwatukee is changing what these verse plainly says, to something that Ahwatukee thinks it means. Ahwatukee is wrong, and the Scriptures are right. Believe what the Word of God says, not what Ahwatukee teaches. But don't blame him though. He has got it into his head that He knows the TRUTH, and therefore he will alter any verse, or interpret any verse that does not line up with his version of what the TRUTH is. Let him be, the dead shall bury their dead. Let us pray for him, to start relying on the Word of God and what it says, and less on his interpretations of what He thinks Scriptures are teaching.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Not Scriptural. This is your opinion. The Truth is, the Appearing of our Lord Jesus, is the Day of the Lord, that Day is when the Church is gathered up with Him. What you say above is not Scriptural, but is your opinion based on your own thoughts. Hence your opinion.
Your opinion again. The Day of the Lord is the very Day that He gathers up the Church.
All in the same verse, because all of it is on the same day, the Day of the Lord is when the Church is gathered up with Him, but you seem to think otherwise, based on what? NOT Scriptures, but what your own interpretations.
Again, you opinion. It is your opinion that God's wrath follows the gathering. This is not What Scriptures actually teaches, but is what you believe based on your own interpretations. Again, from you, like i see all the time, you teach as if your opinions are fact. And worse yet you actually believe your own opinions even over what Scriptures plainly teach. Scriptures plainly teach the antichrist will be revealed Before the Rapture, not so with your teaching though, you teach he is revealed after the Rapture, and why do you teach that, because that is what YOU BELIEVE to be TRUE, even over what Scriptures plainly teach. You teach things contrary to Scriptures, but are so blinded to the TRUTH you can't even see it. Scriptures plainly teach the antichrist will be revealed first, but you teach contrary to that. You are wrong, and Scriptures are right.
Perfect example you have given to back up what i said previously. You teach that the Church will be gone before the antichrist is revealed. What Scriptures teach that? The answer is NONE. There is not one verse that teaches that the Church will be gone before the antichrist is revealed, not one verse teaches that, but look above you say it as if it is the TRUTH, because you believe it full heartedly, and there is no convincing you otherwise, not even Scriptures can do that, but how did you come to that truth, via your own interpretations, your own studies, your own mind, your own intellect. You teach something as it is TRUTH, yet that truth contradicts verses in Scriptures. What you teach is not TRUTH, but only your version of what YOU think the TRUTH is. i am certain many people believed full heartedly that the earth was flat, and they absolutely believed it with all their might and strength, doesn't make it the TRUTH though does it.
This is what God told me, and you would do well to remember it, and apply it to your thinking.
"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG"
So then instead of interpreting Scriptures to fit into what YOU believe is the TRUTH, change what you believe to line up with what Scriptures teach. Scriptures plainly teaches that the antichrist is revealed first, so then instead of interpreting Scriptures to line up with what you believe, try changing what you believe to line up with Scriptures. or continue as you are doing, and think you know the TRUTH, when in Truth you don't.
Anyone who believes a thing, and that thing is contrary to Scriptures is wrong. Change what you believe to line up with Scriptures, don't change Scriptures to line up with your belief. Those who do so are devoid of the TRUTH, even if they yell the loudest they have it.
What Scriptures teach that? Or is that again your opinion? i understand that is what you believe to be True, makes sense. Because you believe that it is the Church that is restraining him from being revealed, then according to that logic, When the Church is taken away, only then can he be revealed. The problem with that logic is, ITS NOT SCRIPTURAL. Scriptures teach that he is revealed before the Church is taken up, so then how about changing what you think is TRUE to fit with what Scriptures teach. Scriptures teach he is revealed before the Church is Raptures, therefore discard what you believe based on your own opinions, and change what you believe to line up with what Scriptures teach, CHANGE your belief to where the antichrist is revealed before the CHURCH is gathered together, exactly like Scriptures says will happen. OR do you hold on to your own belief for dear life, that you have a need to change Scriptures to match what you believe is the TRUTH?
Yes, yes, this is your opinion, this is what you believe, and no Scripture is going to convince you otherwise, right? Even if that verse plainly and clearly shows you are wrong, it can't change you can it, no. you will just change that verse to mean something other than what it says, just so it does not contradict with what you think is the TRUTH, sigh. . .. .
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Your opinion again. The Day of the Lord is the very Day that He gathers up the Church.
All in the same verse, because all of it is on the same day, the Day of the Lord is when the Church is gathered up with Him, but you seem to think otherwise, based on what? NOT Scriptures, but what your own interpretations.
Again, you opinion. It is your opinion that God's wrath follows the gathering. This is not What Scriptures actually teaches, but is what you believe based on your own interpretations. Again, from you, like i see all the time, you teach as if your opinions are fact. And worse yet you actually believe your own opinions even over what Scriptures plainly teach. Scriptures plainly teach the antichrist will be revealed Before the Rapture, not so with your teaching though, you teach he is revealed after the Rapture, and why do you teach that, because that is what YOU BELIEVE to be TRUE, even over what Scriptures plainly teach. You teach things contrary to Scriptures, but are so blinded to the TRUTH you can't even see it. Scriptures plainly teach the antichrist will be revealed first, but you teach contrary to that. You are wrong, and Scriptures are right.
Perfect example you have given to back up what i said previously. You teach that the Church will be gone before the antichrist is revealed. What Scriptures teach that? The answer is NONE. There is not one verse that teaches that the Church will be gone before the antichrist is revealed, not one verse teaches that, but look above you say it as if it is the TRUTH, because you believe it full heartedly, and there is no convincing you otherwise, not even Scriptures can do that, but how did you come to that truth, via your own interpretations, your own studies, your own mind, your own intellect. You teach something as it is TRUTH, yet that truth contradicts verses in Scriptures. What you teach is not TRUTH, but only your version of what YOU think the TRUTH is. i am certain many people believed full heartedly that the earth was flat, and they absolutely believed it with all their might and strength, doesn't make it the TRUTH though does it.
This is what God told me, and you would do well to remember it, and apply it to your thinking.
"If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures, then what you believe is WRONG"
So then instead of interpreting Scriptures to fit into what YOU believe is the TRUTH, change what you believe to line up with what Scriptures teach. Scriptures plainly teaches that the antichrist is revealed first, so then instead of interpreting Scriptures to line up with what you believe, try changing what you believe to line up with Scriptures. or continue as you are doing, and think you know the TRUTH, when in Truth you don't.
Anyone who believes a thing, and that thing is contrary to Scriptures is wrong. Change what you believe to line up with Scriptures, don't change Scriptures to line up with your belief. Those who do so are devoid of the TRUTH, even if they yell the loudest they have it.
What Scriptures teach that? Or is that again your opinion? i understand that is what you believe to be True, makes sense. Because you believe that it is the Church that is restraining him from being revealed, then according to that logic, When the Church is taken away, only then can he be revealed. The problem with that logic is, ITS NOT SCRIPTURAL. Scriptures teach that he is revealed before the Church is taken up, so then how about changing what you think is TRUE to fit with what Scriptures teach. Scriptures teach he is revealed before the Church is Raptures, therefore discard what you believe based on your own opinions, and change what you believe to line up with what Scriptures teach, CHANGE your belief to where the antichrist is revealed before the CHURCH is gathered together, exactly like Scriptures says will happen. OR do you hold on to your own belief for dear life, that you have a need to change Scriptures to match what you believe is the TRUTH?
Yes, yes, this is your opinion, this is what you believe, and no Scripture is going to convince you otherwise, right? Even if that verse plainly and clearly shows you are wrong, it can't change you can it, no. you will just change that verse to mean something other than what it says, just so it does not contradict with what you think is the TRUTH, sigh. . .. .
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
The appearing of the Lord to gather the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age, cannot be the same event. As I have said so many times, the wrath of God must take place via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments before the Lord returns to the earth to end the age. And since Christ has already suffered God's wrath on every believers behalf, and the fact that scripture states that we are not appointed to suffer said wrath, then scriptural logic says that the church must be removed from the earth prior to God's wrath. So that so-called "ungodly reason" is because God has made it known in His word that believers will not go through His wrath. But by your teaching you put the living church through the entire wrath of God and thereby truly don't believe that Jesus experienced God's wrath on every believer's behalf. It's like contradicting yourself "I believe in Christ, no I don't!"
I have made known to you many times that Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride/church in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb. Then in verse 14 the bride/church is seen following Christ out of heaven riding on those white horse and wearing her fine linen that she will have previously received.
But then again, I am speak with someone who believes that the new Jerusalem comes down on this present earth in the middle of the seven years, right in the middle of God's wrath and that because of misinterpreting scripture, as well as believing that the 7th trumpet as being synonymous with the "last trumpet." And that while ignoring the fact that the 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath, where the "last trumpet" is a blessing to the church. In addition, there is nothing in the context in or around the 7th trumpet that reveals the church being gathered.
I have made known to you many times that Rev.19:6-8 reveals the bride/church in heaven receiving her fine linen at the wedding of the Lamb. Then in verse 14 the bride/church is seen following Christ out of heaven riding on those white horse and wearing her fine linen that she will have previously received.
But then again, I am speak with someone who believes that the new Jerusalem comes down on this present earth in the middle of the seven years, right in the middle of God's wrath and that because of misinterpreting scripture, as well as believing that the 7th trumpet as being synonymous with the "last trumpet." And that while ignoring the fact that the 7th trumpet is a plague of wrath, where the "last trumpet" is a blessing to the church. In addition, there is nothing in the context in or around the 7th trumpet that reveals the church being gathered.
That the gathering of the church and the Lord's return to the earth to end the age as being two separate events, is indeed scriptural, and here are the scriptures:
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! - Rom.5:9
"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. - 1 Thes.1:9-10
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thes.5:9
As you can see, it is not my opinion and these are just a few of the scriptures that demonstrate that believers cannot go through God's wrath. And since this is true, and God's wrath must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth, ergo, the church must be removed prior to said wrath. Do you get it?
* Gathering of the church
* God's wrath
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom
That's a summary of the order of end-time events
"Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him! - Rom.5:9
"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. - 1 Thes.1:9-10
"But since we belong to the day, let us be sober, putting on faith and love as a breastplate, and the hope of salvation as a helmet. For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thes.5:9
As you can see, it is not my opinion and these are just a few of the scriptures that demonstrate that believers cannot go through God's wrath. And since this is true, and God's wrath must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth, ergo, the church must be removed prior to said wrath. Do you get it?
* Gathering of the church
* God's wrath
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom
That's a summary of the order of end-time events
Your opinion. If it were Scriptural, then you would have been the first one to reveal that exact Scripture that teaches that, but because Scriptures does not plainly teach what your opinion is, you state it as a TRUTH based on what YOU THINK, Again, your opinion.
You keep saying that, but give no Scriptures to back that up. So then i keep saying "Show me the Scriptures that teach what you are saying?" But you don't, because you can't, there are none. So then we continue this circle, you claim something that is your opinion, i ask for Scriptures, you reply that you have answered me, circle over and over again.
lol, Christ has suffered God's wrath for every believer for sins that are past. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord and Repents on that Day, all that persons sins "That they are repenting of, that are PAST" are then on that day forgiven, and on that DAY, Christ takes the punishments for that person sins. What then? If a person is Saved 3 years ago, and they commit adultery last night, do you think Jesus suffers God wrath for that persons sin yesterday. If you actually believe that false doctrine, then you have indeed effectively voided the Word of God, which plainly teaches Christians, "if you sow to the flesh of the you SHALL reap corruption" If Jesus pays the punishment for our sins even today, they why will a person suffer corruption in their flesh, if Jesus takes God's wrath for us? Also you make void the verse that says God punishes those that He loves, this can't be True, if Jesus is still taking it for us, now can it?
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
i am not saying that Jesus does not forgive us when we Truly Repent, because He does. But He took the punishment for our sins ONCE, He does not go to whipping pole daily for YOU. He does not go to the Cross DAILY for you, He did that ONCE FOR YOU, the day you accept Him as your Lord. If you willingly choose to obey His enemy and commit sin, He is not going to take the punishment of that sin for you, YOU WILL MOST CERTAINLY REAP WHAT YOU HAVE SOWN. Jesus will forgive you of that sin, but you will most certainly pay for the consequences of that sin. So those who continue to obey satan and live in sins, are indeed storing up wrath for themselves, storing up punishment from God for themselves. They will reap what they have sown because God is not a liar.
Scriptural logic! i like how you said that,there are no verses shows it to be TRUE, so you say Scriptural logic to try to back up what you are saying, still your opinion.
Christians are not appointed for wrath, this is absolutely TRUE and is accurate. Do you know who is appointed to His wrath? Those who continue to live in sin and do not cease from them. Any Christian who sows to his/her flesh, will suffer God's wrath and shall receive Corruption in their flesh.
Gal_6:8 For he (the word "he" applies to "she" as well) that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
So then even though we are not appointed to His wrath, if we sow to the flesh, then we most certainly are appointed for His Wrath. God punishes those that He loves. What? If you sow to the flesh, Jesus is going to take your punishment for you, if this was the case, then God is a Liar. God says if someone sows to the flesh, they will reap corruption in that flesh, God says they will get punished for that. God is not a liar. But those who teach that Jesus will take the punishment for us, is indeed lying. So even though you continually believe that since the Church is not appointed to wrath, that must mean "TO YOU" that the Church is not here during God's Wrath, an i continue to tell you the TRUTH, that anyone who knowingly and willingly commits sin AFTER they have knowledge of Jesus Christ and have already accepted Him to be their Savior and they continue to live in sins anyways, they most certainly (even though can be forgiven) most certainly appointed to be punished by God for their own willing sins =TRUTH. So you keep believing that the Church is not appointed to wrath, like you hold on to and believe, and i will continue to teach TRUTH, that if the Church lives in sin, they are appointed for God's Wrath.
i never said that is what is ungodly. Your opinion that the Church is GONE during God's Wrath is what i say is very ungodly.
You whole opinion is based on the idea that the Church can't be present during the Tribulation Period because the Church is not appointed to wrath, therefore YOU THINK that MUST mean, the Church is gone before the Tribulation Period, correct.
Fine, let us assume that you are correct, that no person who is a Christian CAN'T suffer any wrath, because NO CHRISTIAN is appointed to suffer God's Wrath. How does that mean, they are NOT present during the Tribulation Period?
i will ask you again. How does a Christian not appointed to wrath, means that they are not present during the Tribulation Period? Is it possible for the Church to be present during the Wrath of God (Tribulation Period) and not be effected by any of His Wrath? Not possible or possible? You automatically ASSUME, that because we are not appointed to wrath, that MUST MEAN we are not present during God's Wrath? That is nonsence. We can still be present during the Tribulation Period and not suffer any of God's wrath. Scriptures even teaches that God does this:
Where the Israelites removed from Egypt when the Wrath of God came down upon the Egyptians? Or were they present for the Wrath of God and were not effected by it. So then the Israelites were Present for the entire Wrath of God, yet were not effected by His wrath. So are you still trying to tell me, that you believe the Church is gone BEFORE the wrath of God, because they are not appointed to suffer wrath, therefore they MUST be gone before it happens. Were the Israelites gone before the Wrath of God came upon Egypt?
So we have Scriptures that clearly demonstrates that Holy people can be present during God's wrath.
Are there any Scriptures at all that demonstrates that during God's wrath, Holy people are removed first.
So i am trying to understand your bases for you belief that the Church is Gone BEFORE the Wrath of God comes, because the Church is not appointed to wrath? You keep saying over and over again that because the Church is not appointed to wrath that MUST MEAN they are Gone before the Wrath of God starts. Where are you getting this bases from? Not Scriptures, but this bases is coming from you and what you personally believe.
The Church is present for the 7 Seals, it is present for the 7 Trumpets. At the 7th Trumpet the Church is taken up to be with Jesus where He is, and He at that time will be in the Holy City Jerusalem which sits on four mountains for legs. The Seven vials are then poured out on the Earth for the next 3 1/2 years to wipe all those that were left behind off the planet Earth, save for the 144,000 children, the firstfruits that are redeemed from the Earth for Jesus Christ. This is what God told me, and it is the TRUTH.
What i teach is what God revealed to me (dreams/visions) or what God told me in conversation. i rarely if ever teach anything that comes from me, that is to say from my own mind, my own thinking.
The Living Church can go through the entire wrath of God, and not suffer one bit. Even as the Israelites went through the entire wrath of God, and were not effected at all. You do error thinking and believing that it is not possible for the Church to go through the wrath of God without suffering, therefore it is in YOUR THINKING that must mean they are taken BEFORE the wrath of God comes, which thing Scriptures does not support, but on YOU THINK it MUST mean that, therefore you teach what YOU THINK and not what Scriptures teach.
You keep saying that, but give no Scriptures to back that up. So then i keep saying "Show me the Scriptures that teach what you are saying?" But you don't, because you can't, there are none. So then we continue this circle, you claim something that is your opinion, i ask for Scriptures, you reply that you have answered me, circle over and over again.
lol, Christ has suffered God's wrath for every believer for sins that are past. When a person accepts Jesus Christ as their Savior and Lord and Repents on that Day, all that persons sins "That they are repenting of, that are PAST" are then on that day forgiven, and on that DAY, Christ takes the punishments for that person sins. What then? If a person is Saved 3 years ago, and they commit adultery last night, do you think Jesus suffers God wrath for that persons sin yesterday. If you actually believe that false doctrine, then you have indeed effectively voided the Word of God, which plainly teaches Christians, "if you sow to the flesh of the you SHALL reap corruption" If Jesus pays the punishment for our sins even today, they why will a person suffer corruption in their flesh, if Jesus takes God's wrath for us? Also you make void the verse that says God punishes those that He loves, this can't be True, if Jesus is still taking it for us, now can it?
Rom_3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
i am not saying that Jesus does not forgive us when we Truly Repent, because He does. But He took the punishment for our sins ONCE, He does not go to whipping pole daily for YOU. He does not go to the Cross DAILY for you, He did that ONCE FOR YOU, the day you accept Him as your Lord. If you willingly choose to obey His enemy and commit sin, He is not going to take the punishment of that sin for you, YOU WILL MOST CERTAINLY REAP WHAT YOU HAVE SOWN. Jesus will forgive you of that sin, but you will most certainly pay for the consequences of that sin. So those who continue to obey satan and live in sins, are indeed storing up wrath for themselves, storing up punishment from God for themselves. They will reap what they have sown because God is not a liar.
Scriptural logic! i like how you said that,there are no verses shows it to be TRUE, so you say Scriptural logic to try to back up what you are saying, still your opinion.
Christians are not appointed for wrath, this is absolutely TRUE and is accurate. Do you know who is appointed to His wrath? Those who continue to live in sin and do not cease from them. Any Christian who sows to his/her flesh, will suffer God's wrath and shall receive Corruption in their flesh.
Gal_6:8 For he (the word "he" applies to "she" as well) that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
So then even though we are not appointed to His wrath, if we sow to the flesh, then we most certainly are appointed for His Wrath. God punishes those that He loves. What? If you sow to the flesh, Jesus is going to take your punishment for you, if this was the case, then God is a Liar. God says if someone sows to the flesh, they will reap corruption in that flesh, God says they will get punished for that. God is not a liar. But those who teach that Jesus will take the punishment for us, is indeed lying. So even though you continually believe that since the Church is not appointed to wrath, that must mean "TO YOU" that the Church is not here during God's Wrath, an i continue to tell you the TRUTH, that anyone who knowingly and willingly commits sin AFTER they have knowledge of Jesus Christ and have already accepted Him to be their Savior and they continue to live in sins anyways, they most certainly (even though can be forgiven) most certainly appointed to be punished by God for their own willing sins =TRUTH. So you keep believing that the Church is not appointed to wrath, like you hold on to and believe, and i will continue to teach TRUTH, that if the Church lives in sin, they are appointed for God's Wrath.
i never said that is what is ungodly. Your opinion that the Church is GONE during God's Wrath is what i say is very ungodly.
You whole opinion is based on the idea that the Church can't be present during the Tribulation Period because the Church is not appointed to wrath, therefore YOU THINK that MUST mean, the Church is gone before the Tribulation Period, correct.
Fine, let us assume that you are correct, that no person who is a Christian CAN'T suffer any wrath, because NO CHRISTIAN is appointed to suffer God's Wrath. How does that mean, they are NOT present during the Tribulation Period?
i will ask you again. How does a Christian not appointed to wrath, means that they are not present during the Tribulation Period? Is it possible for the Church to be present during the Wrath of God (Tribulation Period) and not be effected by any of His Wrath? Not possible or possible? You automatically ASSUME, that because we are not appointed to wrath, that MUST MEAN we are not present during God's Wrath? That is nonsence. We can still be present during the Tribulation Period and not suffer any of God's wrath. Scriptures even teaches that God does this:
Where the Israelites removed from Egypt when the Wrath of God came down upon the Egyptians? Or were they present for the Wrath of God and were not effected by it. So then the Israelites were Present for the entire Wrath of God, yet were not effected by His wrath. So are you still trying to tell me, that you believe the Church is gone BEFORE the wrath of God, because they are not appointed to suffer wrath, therefore they MUST be gone before it happens. Were the Israelites gone before the Wrath of God came upon Egypt?
So we have Scriptures that clearly demonstrates that Holy people can be present during God's wrath.
Are there any Scriptures at all that demonstrates that during God's wrath, Holy people are removed first.
So i am trying to understand your bases for you belief that the Church is Gone BEFORE the Wrath of God comes, because the Church is not appointed to wrath? You keep saying over and over again that because the Church is not appointed to wrath that MUST MEAN they are Gone before the Wrath of God starts. Where are you getting this bases from? Not Scriptures, but this bases is coming from you and what you personally believe.
The Church is present for the 7 Seals, it is present for the 7 Trumpets. At the 7th Trumpet the Church is taken up to be with Jesus where He is, and He at that time will be in the Holy City Jerusalem which sits on four mountains for legs. The Seven vials are then poured out on the Earth for the next 3 1/2 years to wipe all those that were left behind off the planet Earth, save for the 144,000 children, the firstfruits that are redeemed from the Earth for Jesus Christ. This is what God told me, and it is the TRUTH.
What i teach is what God revealed to me (dreams/visions) or what God told me in conversation. i rarely if ever teach anything that comes from me, that is to say from my own mind, my own thinking.
The Living Church can go through the entire wrath of God, and not suffer one bit. Even as the Israelites went through the entire wrath of God, and were not effected at all. You do error thinking and believing that it is not possible for the Church to go through the wrath of God without suffering, therefore it is in YOUR THINKING that must mean they are taken BEFORE the wrath of God comes, which thing Scriptures does not support, but on YOU THINK it MUST mean that, therefore you teach what YOU THINK and not what Scriptures teach.
Really? You are going to show Scriptures that teach they are TWO Separate events, this should be interesting.
OK, we see a verse that says If a person is justified by His Blood, they will be Saved from God's wrath. And who are they that are justified by His blood according to Scriptures:
1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him (SAVED), and walk in darkness (willingly commit sins), we lie, and do not the truth: But IF (CONDITIONAL) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
So according to this, Those who walk in the light and not in darkness are they that are Cleansed by His Blood, ONLY they are cleansed from all sin. Makes since, if a person continues in sin, they are not cleansed from it. But if a person no longer commits sin, then Jesus has cleansed them and they are covered by His Blood, even as Scriptures plainly teach but this generation will absolutely reject this TRUTH, because it does not line up with the false doctrines they hold on to.
So then those who walk in the light and not in darkness will be Saved from God's wrath, amen, that is Scriptural.
NONE of these verses in any way whatsoever teaches they are Two different events. It is clear though that you interpret these verse to mean to you that they are two different events. You base this assumption on the ideal that because the Church is not appointed to wrath, that MUST mean they will not go through it, This thinking is in error. Just because the Church is not appointed to wrath DOES NOT mean they will not SEE the wrath of God coming upon disobedient children of God now does it, that is YOUR OPINION that they are not present for that Wrath. It is YOUR OPINION that believes the Church is not present during the Wrath of God, there is NO Scriptures that teach they are two separate events, they only MUST be separate events to YOU, because you falsely believe it is not possible the Church can be present during the Wrath of God, which is something that Scriptures does not teach, that is your opinion based on YOUR interpretations coming from your own mind. YOU falsely believe that since the Church is not appointed to wrath, that MUST mean they are not present to see it, You do error and teach things contrary to what God told is going to happen.
Again, you testify against your own self in the above statement. Scriptures teach that the True Church is not going to suffer wrath, but YOU teach they are not going to go through it, nor see it. This Scriptures does NOT teach as you are trying to get others to believe.
YOU say Scriptures teach that True Christians will NOT SUFFER God's wrath. You teach that they will not go through it. Can't you even see what you are doing? You are ADDING things to Scriptures that are simply NOT THERE. Scriptures does not teach anywhere that the Church will not go THROUGH the Wrath of God. Scriptures only teaches that the TRUE CHURCH will not SUFFER the wrath of God, You are teaching things that Scriptures does not teach, then worse yet, telling the sheep that what you are teaching is Scriptures. You do error, and it does not please God. And if i teach something false, or knowingly and/or willingly obey His enemy the devil and commit sin, i too will not please God.
What is True, is True Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath of God. Scriptural.
What is NOT TRUE, is the Church is appointed to not go through the Wrath of God at all. Opinion.
Again, your opinion and not What Scriptures teach. Scriptures plainly teach that When Jesus Returns to the Earth, He is going to set up His kingdom on EARTH, and all the nations will serve Him, All the Heathens will come to worship Him from year to year. Men will take their weapons and make farming tools out of them. MANY and i say Many Scriptures teaches where Jesus is reigning on the Earth when sinners are still present. When Jesus Comes the second time, He is here to stay.
i 100% understand why you believe the way that you do, i also understand 100% that you are wrong.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
OK, we see a verse that says If a person is justified by His Blood, they will be Saved from God's wrath. And who are they that are justified by His blood according to Scriptures:
1Jn_1:6 If we say that we have fellowship with him (SAVED), and walk in darkness (willingly commit sins), we lie, and do not the truth: But IF (CONDITIONAL) we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
So according to this, Those who walk in the light and not in darkness are they that are Cleansed by His Blood, ONLY they are cleansed from all sin. Makes since, if a person continues in sin, they are not cleansed from it. But if a person no longer commits sin, then Jesus has cleansed them and they are covered by His Blood, even as Scriptures plainly teach but this generation will absolutely reject this TRUTH, because it does not line up with the false doctrines they hold on to.
So then those who walk in the light and not in darkness will be Saved from God's wrath, amen, that is Scriptural.
NONE of these verses in any way whatsoever teaches they are Two different events. It is clear though that you interpret these verse to mean to you that they are two different events. You base this assumption on the ideal that because the Church is not appointed to wrath, that MUST mean they will not go through it, This thinking is in error. Just because the Church is not appointed to wrath DOES NOT mean they will not SEE the wrath of God coming upon disobedient children of God now does it, that is YOUR OPINION that they are not present for that Wrath. It is YOUR OPINION that believes the Church is not present during the Wrath of God, there is NO Scriptures that teach they are two separate events, they only MUST be separate events to YOU, because you falsely believe it is not possible the Church can be present during the Wrath of God, which is something that Scriptures does not teach, that is your opinion based on YOUR interpretations coming from your own mind. YOU falsely believe that since the Church is not appointed to wrath, that MUST mean they are not present to see it, You do error and teach things contrary to what God told is going to happen.
Again, you testify against your own self in the above statement. Scriptures teach that the True Church is not going to suffer wrath, but YOU teach they are not going to go through it, nor see it. This Scriptures does NOT teach as you are trying to get others to believe.
YOU say Scriptures teach that True Christians will NOT SUFFER God's wrath. You teach that they will not go through it. Can't you even see what you are doing? You are ADDING things to Scriptures that are simply NOT THERE. Scriptures does not teach anywhere that the Church will not go THROUGH the Wrath of God. Scriptures only teaches that the TRUE CHURCH will not SUFFER the wrath of God, You are teaching things that Scriptures does not teach, then worse yet, telling the sheep that what you are teaching is Scriptures. You do error, and it does not please God. And if i teach something false, or knowingly and/or willingly obey His enemy the devil and commit sin, i too will not please God.
What is True, is True Christians are not appointed to suffer wrath of God. Scriptural.
What is NOT TRUE, is the Church is appointed to not go through the Wrath of God at all. Opinion.
Again, your opinion and not What Scriptures teach. Scriptures plainly teach that When Jesus Returns to the Earth, He is going to set up His kingdom on EARTH, and all the nations will serve Him, All the Heathens will come to worship Him from year to year. Men will take their weapons and make farming tools out of them. MANY and i say Many Scriptures teaches where Jesus is reigning on the Earth when sinners are still present. When Jesus Comes the second time, He is here to stay.
i 100% understand why you believe the way that you do, i also understand 100% that you are wrong.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
That summary is not Scriptural.
As i have said to you before, you need to study and understand Zechariah chapter 14, And tell me where does Zech 14 fit into your above summary?
* Gathering of the church (So Christ coming a second time, then goes back to Heaven right?)
* God's wrath (7 years of the Tribulation Period, Destroys all the wicked off the planet correct?)
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom (So then Christ comes back a 3rd time, right)
NONE of this is Scriptural but is what is in your own head based on your own interpretations. You believe that the Church is taken before the Wrath of God, because you falsely believe that MUST mean they are gone, This is your opinion and is not what Scriptures teach. True, Christians that are walking in the light, will not suffer any of God's wrath when it comes, but that does not mean as you are saying, that it means they are not there to witness it. Even the Israelites did not suffer the wrath of God when it came upon Egypt, but they most certainly witnessed it, didn't they? The True Church will not suffer God's Wrath, but they will most certainly witness it, because they will be here during it.
You also teach that Christ comes back a third time. This also is something that Scriptures does not teach, but you do teach that. You see you have to teach that because you actually believe that the Church is taken up before the Wrath of God, therefore you and others have concocted that Jesus must have to come again a third time, in order to fit into that false belief.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
As i have said to you before, you need to study and understand Zechariah chapter 14, And tell me where does Zech 14 fit into your above summary?
* Gathering of the church (So Christ coming a second time, then goes back to Heaven right?)
* God's wrath (7 years of the Tribulation Period, Destroys all the wicked off the planet correct?)
* The Lord's return to the earth to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom (So then Christ comes back a 3rd time, right)
NONE of this is Scriptural but is what is in your own head based on your own interpretations. You believe that the Church is taken before the Wrath of God, because you falsely believe that MUST mean they are gone, This is your opinion and is not what Scriptures teach. True, Christians that are walking in the light, will not suffer any of God's wrath when it comes, but that does not mean as you are saying, that it means they are not there to witness it. Even the Israelites did not suffer the wrath of God when it came upon Egypt, but they most certainly witnessed it, didn't they? The True Church will not suffer God's Wrath, but they will most certainly witness it, because they will be here during it.
You also teach that Christ comes back a third time. This also is something that Scriptures does not teach, but you do teach that. You see you have to teach that because you actually believe that the Church is taken up before the Wrath of God, therefore you and others have concocted that Jesus must have to come again a third time, in order to fit into that false belief.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
i plainly said if what you believe contradicts SCRIPTURES, then what you believe is wrong. i did not say If what you believe contradicts the beliefs a Ahwatukee then you are wrong.
If you can show me any Scriptures which teach what you are teaching here, then you will be correct. Show me any verse in all of Scriptures that teaches Believers are GONE BEFORE the time of wrath? Show me any Scriptures that show Jesus RESUES believers BEFORE the time of wrath? There are no verses in all of Scriptures that teaches that, if you think they do, then reveal those verses. It is True there is a verse that says "We are not appointed for wrath" that does not in any way whatsoever says or teaches the we do not go through it, that we will not see it, even though we are not suffering from it. That is what YOU teach, not Scriptures. Therefore what i teach is not contrary to Scriptures but contrary to what Ahwatukee teaches. Also still waiting for you to explain verse by verse Zechariah 14.
1Thess 4:13-18 is a description of the Return of the Lord.
Matt 24:29-31 is a description of the answer Jesus gave to His Disciples When He will return, hence "The Return of the Lord"
Tell me, if YOU think they are not a description of the same event, can you reveal the Scriptures that shows they are NOT? Or is that something that is only your interpretation?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
If you can show me any Scriptures which teach what you are teaching here, then you will be correct. Show me any verse in all of Scriptures that teaches Believers are GONE BEFORE the time of wrath? Show me any Scriptures that show Jesus RESUES believers BEFORE the time of wrath? There are no verses in all of Scriptures that teaches that, if you think they do, then reveal those verses. It is True there is a verse that says "We are not appointed for wrath" that does not in any way whatsoever says or teaches the we do not go through it, that we will not see it, even though we are not suffering from it. That is what YOU teach, not Scriptures. Therefore what i teach is not contrary to Scriptures but contrary to what Ahwatukee teaches. Also still waiting for you to explain verse by verse Zechariah 14.
1Thess 4:13-18 is a description of the Return of the Lord.
Matt 24:29-31 is a description of the answer Jesus gave to His Disciples When He will return, hence "The Return of the Lord"
Tell me, if YOU think they are not a description of the same event, can you reveal the Scriptures that shows they are NOT? Or is that something that is only your interpretation?
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
The doctrine that teaches Christ Returns a third time is a false doctrine. There is a teaching today that teaches that Christ comes a second time and Gathers up the Church, takes them to Heaven, only to return a third time. This doctrine is NOT Scriptural at all, but is a doctrine of men and what they teach, not what God teaches. The Rapture happens the very same day that Jesus comes to the Earth the second time. This Day is referred to as the Day of the Lord. It is the day the 7th Trumpet is blown, it is the Day the Saints are gathered to Him. It is the Day that the Holy City Jerusalem comes to the Earth. It is the Day that Jesus sets up His Kingdom ON EARTH.
Not all Angels are sent to Earth to be tested. Therefore those Angels which were not sent to the Earth to dwell in flesh to be tempted, are with Jesus even to this very day. Those Angels are Saints as well. When Jesus Returns the second time to the Earth, He will have the Holy City with Him, the Holy Angels (Saints) with Him, the Holy Father with Him, the Temple of God with Him. And on that Day when He returns a second time, He will gather the rest of the Saints that were sent down to the Earth to dwell in flesh to be tested.
And even if you don't think Angels are Saints but humans are the Saints, on that Day of the Rapture (Second Coming of Christ) After He Raptures two of the dead Saints All others will see the Saints coming with Jesus. The first pass around the World Jesus will gather all the dead Saints FIRST. Then He will make another pass around the world gathering up the living Saints, and every eyes shall see Him coming with the Saints that He had already gathered on the first pass around the Earth.
The Second Coming and the Rapture are the same event and happen on the same Day, the Day of the Lord.
The Marriage of the Lamb takes place in the Holy City Jerusalem which is landed over where old Jerusalem use to be. The Marriage of the Lamb takes place on the Day of the Lord, the very day all the saints dead and alive are taken up with Jesus to with Him where He is, and He is in the Holy City, ON EARTH. Zechariah Chapter 14 is a description of the DAY OF THE LORD.
What i teach is NOT contrary to any verse in all of Scriptures. Contrary to the interpretations of men, and what they believe? MOST CERTAINLY. What i teach is what God told me, and none of what He told me is contrary to any verse in Scriptures.
Rom_2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Anyone who accepts Jesus and walks in the light as He did, are considered the elect of Christ.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Not all Angels are sent to Earth to be tested. Therefore those Angels which were not sent to the Earth to dwell in flesh to be tempted, are with Jesus even to this very day. Those Angels are Saints as well. When Jesus Returns the second time to the Earth, He will have the Holy City with Him, the Holy Angels (Saints) with Him, the Holy Father with Him, the Temple of God with Him. And on that Day when He returns a second time, He will gather the rest of the Saints that were sent down to the Earth to dwell in flesh to be tested.
And even if you don't think Angels are Saints but humans are the Saints, on that Day of the Rapture (Second Coming of Christ) After He Raptures two of the dead Saints All others will see the Saints coming with Jesus. The first pass around the World Jesus will gather all the dead Saints FIRST. Then He will make another pass around the world gathering up the living Saints, and every eyes shall see Him coming with the Saints that He had already gathered on the first pass around the Earth.
The Second Coming and the Rapture are the same event and happen on the same Day, the Day of the Lord.
The Marriage of the Lamb takes place in the Holy City Jerusalem which is landed over where old Jerusalem use to be. The Marriage of the Lamb takes place on the Day of the Lord, the very day all the saints dead and alive are taken up with Jesus to with Him where He is, and He is in the Holy City, ON EARTH. Zechariah Chapter 14 is a description of the DAY OF THE LORD.
What i teach is NOT contrary to any verse in all of Scriptures. Contrary to the interpretations of men, and what they believe? MOST CERTAINLY. What i teach is what God told me, and none of what He told me is contrary to any verse in Scriptures.
Rom_2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.
Anyone who accepts Jesus and walks in the light as He did, are considered the elect of Christ.
^i^
††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††
DiscipleDave
Since Christ comes IN THE AIR and momentarily to take His Bride home, there are only TWO comings of Christ to earth. So the false doctrine is to attack the Rapture and assert that it is a false doctrine. Please read and study this passage from 1 Thessalonians carefully :
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
When we turn to 1 Corinthians 15, we find that all of this accomplished "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye". So this cannot possibly be designated as the second coming of Christ "with power and great glory", AND ACCOMPANIED by His saints and angels, "and every eye shall see Him".
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)
There is universal mourning at the second coming, but there is only pure joy at the Rapture. BIG DIFFERENCE.
4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 4:18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
When we turn to 1 Corinthians 15, we find that all of this accomplished "in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye". So this cannot possibly be designated as the second coming of Christ "with power and great glory", AND ACCOMPANIED by His saints and angels, "and every eye shall see Him".
Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen. (Rev 1:7)
There is universal mourning at the second coming, but there is only pure joy at the Rapture. BIG DIFFERENCE.
All of this Genera
All of this Generation doesn't believe that Christ will come before tribulation it just appears like that because Pre Tribbers shout the loudest but the tide is turning. Your literal interpretation of what Jesus meant is wrong. He was using Hyperbole to emphasise the
severity of the judgement. Noahs flood was greater than anything else that could happen when only Noah his family and animals in the Ark survived.
All of this Generation doesn't believe that Christ will come before tribulation it just appears like that because Pre Tribbers shout the loudest but the tide is turning. Your literal interpretation of what Jesus meant is wrong. He was using Hyperbole to emphasise the
severity of the judgement. Noahs flood was greater than anything else that could happen when only Noah his family and animals in the Ark survived.
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Since you brought up Noah. Righteous Noah and his family were safe within the Ark BEFORE God sent the Flood.
The Church is safe within the Ark of the New Jerusalem BEFORE God sends His wrath again.
Some say that the Ark is a type of Christ. In that case the Church is safe within the Ark of Christ BEFORE God sends His wrath.
And Enoch was translated to Heaven BEFORE God sent the Flood.
The Church is safe within the Ark of the New Jerusalem BEFORE God sends His wrath again.
Some say that the Ark is a type of Christ. In that case the Church is safe within the Ark of Christ BEFORE God sends His wrath.
And Enoch was translated to Heaven BEFORE God sent the Flood.
Well then, I am in good company, being in the same company as Paul and the rest of the first century church, which were looking for the blessed hope, the appearing of our great God and savior Jesus Christ:
"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"
Tanakh, you change what Jesus said into being hyperbole only because it suits your position. However, Jesus in referring to the events of wrath that would take place leading up to when He returns to the earth to end the age, is literal in that, it would be the worst time in the history of the world from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. That was not hyperbole, but is the literal truth of what is coming upon this earth. As I said in previous posts, the destruction of the temple does not meet that criteria. It will be through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, that God is going to pour out His wrath. Anyone who thinks that the end of the age is in relation to the destruction of the temple, has not idea of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.
Once the One restraining has been taken out of the way, and those He indwells with him, this earth will cease to be the same. During this time God will begin to decimate the population of the earth and dismantle all human government in preparation for His millennial kingdom. This is represented in Dan.2:31-46, when Jesus falls on the feet of the statue which represents all human government, smashing the statue to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and the wind blowing it away without leaving a trace, ergo, the end of human government. Then, the Rock/Jesus, will become a huge mountain (kingdom) and will fill the whole earth, which represents His millennial kingdom.
The church is about to be gathered and following that, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will be the worst time the world has ever seen and will never see again and if those days were allowed to go on any longer, no one would be left alive on the earth. All one has to do is a thorough study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments to understand what is coming. Regarding this time of wrath, I will leave you will the prophecy of Isaiah and Zephaniah:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming—cruel, with fury and burning anger—to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the
sinners within it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light. The sun will be darkened when it rises,
and the moon will not give its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity. I will end the haughtiness
of the arrogant and humiliate the pride of tyrants. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir." - Isaiah 13:9-12
"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," "When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth," declares the LORD. I will sweep away both man and beast; I will sweep away the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea-- and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble." "When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth," declares the LORD." - Zeph 1:1-3
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All of the above (the day of the Lord) is going to be accomplished via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as whatever plagues the two witnesses bring upon the earth.
By the way, we pre-tribbers shout the loudest because we have the truth and are trying to get you who have been deceived by false teachings, to understand the truth of God's word regarding end-time events.
"For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ"
Tanakh, you change what Jesus said into being hyperbole only because it suits your position. However, Jesus in referring to the events of wrath that would take place leading up to when He returns to the earth to end the age, is literal in that, it would be the worst time in the history of the world from the beginning, until now and never to be equaled again. That was not hyperbole, but is the literal truth of what is coming upon this earth. As I said in previous posts, the destruction of the temple does not meet that criteria. It will be through the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, that God is going to pour out His wrath. Anyone who thinks that the end of the age is in relation to the destruction of the temple, has not idea of the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath.
Once the One restraining has been taken out of the way, and those He indwells with him, this earth will cease to be the same. During this time God will begin to decimate the population of the earth and dismantle all human government in preparation for His millennial kingdom. This is represented in Dan.2:31-46, when Jesus falls on the feet of the statue which represents all human government, smashing the statue to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and the wind blowing it away without leaving a trace, ergo, the end of human government. Then, the Rock/Jesus, will become a huge mountain (kingdom) and will fill the whole earth, which represents His millennial kingdom.
The church is about to be gathered and following that, the wrath of God via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which will be the worst time the world has ever seen and will never see again and if those days were allowed to go on any longer, no one would be left alive on the earth. All one has to do is a thorough study of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments to understand what is coming. Regarding this time of wrath, I will leave you will the prophecy of Isaiah and Zephaniah:
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"Behold, the Day of the LORD is coming—cruel, with fury and burning anger—to make the earth a desolation and to destroy the
sinners within it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations will not give their light. The sun will be darkened when it rises,
and the moon will not give its light. I will punish the world for its evil, and the wicked for their iniquity. I will end the haughtiness
of the arrogant and humiliate the pride of tyrants. I will make man scarcer than pure gold, and mankind rarer than the gold of Ophir." - Isaiah 13:9-12
"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth," "When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth," declares the LORD. I will sweep away both man and beast; I will sweep away the birds in the sky and the fish in the sea-- and the idols that cause the wicked to stumble." "When I destroy all mankind on the face of the earth," declares the LORD." - Zeph 1:1-3
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All of the above (the day of the Lord) is going to be accomplished via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, as well as whatever plagues the two witnesses bring upon the earth.
By the way, we pre-tribbers shout the loudest because we have the truth and are trying to get you who have been deceived by false teachings, to understand the truth of God's word regarding end-time events.
