Hebrews 10
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if you can see the context clearly this isnt about saved believers losing salvation...it instruction to the Jews ......
Hello NNM,
So in your view....
Hebrews 10
26, For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins,
27, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
Does not really mean that if we continue in KNOWN SIN we will be lost?
1. So in your view if someone who professes to be a Christian and is living a life of KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN is in a saved state before God
How do you explain the scriptures that disagree with you (this is only a few from each section).
Eze 18:4
Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine:
THE SOUL THAT SINS, IT SHALL DIE.
Eze 18:20
THE SOUL THAT SINS, IT SHALL DIE. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be on him.
James 5
19, My brothers, IF ANY AMONG YOU WANDERS FROM THE TRUTH AND SOMEONE BRINGS HIM BACK, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Romans 6
23, For THE WAGES OF SIN IS DEATH; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
1 John 3
3, And every man that has this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
4, Whoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
5, And you know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
6, WHOSOEVER STAYS IN HIM SINS NOT: WHOSOEVER SINS HAS NOT SEEN HIM OR KNOWS HIM
7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
8, HE THAT COMMITS SIN IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
9, WHOSOEVER IS BORN OF GOD DOES NOT COMMIT SIN; for his seed remains in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whoever does not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.
Proverbs 28:9
He that turneth away his ear from hearing the law, even his prayer shall be abomination.
Psalm 66:18
If I regard
iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me
1 John 2
3, And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4,
He that said, I know him, and keeps not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
Psalms 1
5, Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment, nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.
6, For the LORD knows the way of the righteous: but
the way of the ungodly shall perish
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2. In your view, we do not need to repent of our sins?
Is God lying when he says....
Matthew 4
17, From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say,
Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
Luke 13
3, I tell you, No: but,
except you repent, you shall all likewise perish.
Act 2:38
Then Peter said to them,
Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 3:19
Repent you therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord.
Act 8:22
Repent therefore of this your wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of your heart may be forgiven you.
Act 17:30
And the times of this ignorance God winked at;
but now commands all men every where to repent:
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3. Also, in your view, someone who once believed in Jesus cannot fall away and lose salvation?
Isaiah 1
28,And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and THEY THAT FORSAKE THE LORD shall be consumed.
Isaiah 13
9, Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
Isaiah 33
14, The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?
Proverb 8
36, But he that sins against me wrongeth his own soul: all they that hate me love death
2 Peter 2
1, But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privately shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.
2, And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
3, And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingers not, and their damnation slumbers not.
4, For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved to judgment;
5, And
spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a
preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the
ungodly;
6, And turning the cities of
Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow,
making them an ensample to those that after should live ungodly;
7, And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked:
8, For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with
their unlawful deeds;
9, The Lord knows how to deliver
the godly out of temptations, and to
reserve the unjust to the day of judgment to be punished:
10, But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, self-willed, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.
11, Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord.
12, But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;
13, And
shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;
14, Having
eyes full of adultery,
and that cannot cease from sin;
beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children:
15, WHICH HAVE FORSAKEN THE RIGHT WAY, AND ARE GONE ASTRAY, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the
wages of unrighteousness;
16, But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbade the madness of the prophet.
17, These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
18, For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the
lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who
live in error.
19, While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20, FOR IT THEY HAVE ESCAPED THE POLLUTIONS OF THE WORLD THROUGH THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE LORD AND SAVIOUR JESUS CHRIST, THEY ARE AGAIN ENTANGLED THEREIN AND OVERCOME, THE LATTER END IS WORSE THEN THE BEGGINING.
21, FOR IT HAD BEEN BETTER FOR THEN NOT TO HAVE KNOWN THE WAY OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, THAN, AFTER THEY HAVE KNOWN IT, TO TURN FROM THE HOLY COMMANDMENT DELIEVERED UNTO THEM.
22, But it is happened to them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
Yep seems Peter thinks that you can know and follow God and then turn back from God to follow SIN and leave God....
Hebrews 6
4, FOR IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR THOSE
WHO WERE ONCE ENLIGHTENED, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE HEAVENLY GIFT, AND WERE MADE PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY GHOST,
5, AND HAVE TASTED OF THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, AND THE POWERS OF THE WORLD TO COME,
6, IF THEY SHALL FALL AWAY, TO RENEW THEM AGAIN TO REPENTANCE; SEEING THEY CRUCITY TO THEMSELVES THE SON OF GOD AFREASH, AND PUT HIM TO OPEN SHAME.
7, For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
8, But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing;
whose end is to be burned.
links to....
Hebrews 10
26, FOR IT WE SIN WILLFULLY
AFTER WE RECEIVE A KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH, THERE REMAINS NO MORE SACRIFICE FOR SINS,
27, BUT A FEARFUL LOOKING FORWARD FOR OF JUDGEMENT AND FIERY INDIGNATION, WHICH SHALL DEVOUR THE ADVERSARIES.
28, He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
29, OF HOW MUCH MORE SORER PUNISHMENT, SUPPOSE YOU, SHALL HE BE THOUGHT WORTHY, WHO HAS TRODDEN UNDER FOOT THE SON OF GOD, AND HAS COUNTED THE BLOOD OF THE COVENANT WITH WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED AN UNHOLY THING AND HAS DONE DESPITE TO THE SPIRIT OF GRACE?
30, For we know him that has said, Vengeance belongs to me, I will recompense, said the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
31, IT IS A FEARFUL THING TO FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THE LIVING GOD.
Seems both PAUL and PETER agree together that you can KNOW GOd have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
Isaiah 59
1, Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear:
2, BUT YOUR INIQUITIES HAVE SEPARATED BETWEEN YOU AND YOUR GOD, AND YOUR SINS HAVE HIS HIS FACE FROM YOU THAT HE WILL NOT HEAR.
3, For your hands are defiled with blood, and your fingers with
SIN; your lips have spoken lies, your tongue has muttered perverseness.
Seems Isaiah agrees with Peter and Paul that SIN can separate us from GOD.
Ezekiel 3
17, Son of man, I have made you a watchman to the house of Israel: therefore hear the word at my mouth, and give them warning from me.
18, When I say to the wicked, You shall surely die; and you give him not warning, nor speak to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at your hand.
19, Yet if you warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but you have delivered your soul.
20, AGAIN,
WHEN A RIGHTEOUS MAN DOES TURN FROM HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS, AND COMMIT INIQUITY, AND I LAY A STUMBLING BLOCK BEFORE HIM, HE SHALL DIE IN HIS SIN, AND HIS RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH HE HAS DONE SHALL NOT BE REMEMBERED; but his blood I will require from your hand.
21, Nevertheless if you warn the righteous man, that the righteous sin not, and he does not sin, he shall surely live, because he is warned; also you have delivered your soul.
Well there we have it Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
Joshua 23
11, Take good heed therefore to yourselves, that you love the LORD your God.
12, ELSE IF YOU IN ANY WISE GO BACK TO JOIN TO THE REMNANNT OF THESE NATIONS, EVEN THESE THAT REMAIN AMONG YOU AND SHALL MAKE MARRIAGES WITH THEM AND GO IN UNTO THEM AND THEY TO YOU:
13, KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY THAT THE LORD YOUR GOD WILL NO MORE DRIVE OUT THESE NATIONS FROM BEFORE YOU.; but they shall be snares and traps to you, and scourges in your sides, and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.
Now Joshua is joining Ezekial, Isaiah Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
Numbers 14
43, For there the Amalekites and the Canaanites are facing you, and you shall fall by the sword.
BECAUSE YOU HAVE TURNED BACK FROM FOLLOWING THE LORD, the Lord will not be with you.”
Now you can also add Moses to Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
James 5
19, My brothers,
IF ANY AMONG YOU WANDERS FROM THE TRUTH AND SOMEONE BRINGS HIM BACK, let him know that
whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Seems also James agrees with Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
Jeremiah 3
8, And I saw, when for all the causes whereby
backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
9, And it came to pass through the lightness of her prostitution, that she defiled the land, and committed adultery with stones and with stocks.
10, And yet for all this her treacherous sister Judah
has not turned to me with her whole heart, but feignedly, said the LORD.
11, And the LORD said to me, The backsliding Israel has justified herself more than treacherous Judah.
12, Go, and proclaim these words toward the north, and say,
RETURN FAITHLESS ISRAEL, declares the Lord. I will not look on you in anger, for I am merciful, declares the Lord; I will not be angry forever.
13, Only acknowledge your iniquity,
that you have transgressed against the LORD your God, and have scattered your ways to the strangers under every green tree, and you have not obeyed my voice, said the LORD.
14,
TURN O BACKSLIDING CHILDREN, said the LORD; for I am married to you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion.
Looks like we can add Jeremaiah to James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
Joel 2
13, And rend your hearts and not your garments.
RETURN TO THE LORD YOUR GOD, for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love; and he relents over disaster.
Well here so far we have Joel, Jeremaiah, James, Moses, Joshua, Ezekial, Isaiah, Peter and Paul who all agree that you can know God and have a KNOWLEDGE of the TRUTH and fall away back into SIN.
There is NO such thing as ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED this is th false Gospel from the father of lies. If you KNOW GOd and turn back to SIN.
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4. In your view, Hebrews 10 is only for the Jews and is not relavent to the Christian?
Yet God says...
1 Corinthians 10
11, Now
ALL THESE THINGS happened to them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the world are come.
2 Tim 3
16, ALL SCRIPTURE is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.
Matthew 4
4, But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by
EVERY WORD that proceeds out of the mouth of God.
I think
most of the bible would disagree with this interpretations of the scriptures. Happy to share the scriptures with you as the above is no where near exaustive. Only God's Word is true and we should BELIEVE and FOLLOW it.
There is no such thing as ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. God's Word is very clear. You can indeed fall away from God and return back to a life of SIN.
KNOWN UNREPENTANT SIN will indeed keep all those who practice it OUT of God's KINGDOM.
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God's 4th commandment is one of the ten (Exodus 20:8-11) If we knowingly break it when God asks us not to we stand guilty before God of committing sin (James 2:8-12). If we do not seek him in repentance and forgiveness we are in danger of the Judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
Sunday worship is a tradition and teaching of man that has led many to break the commandments of God. Jesus says that if we follow the traditions of man that break the commandments of God we are not following God (Matthew 15:3-9)
There is not one scripture in all of God's Word that says that God's 4th Commandment is now ABOLISHED and we are now commanded to KEEP Sunday as a Holy day.
Who should we follow the teachings and traditions of men or the Word of God? Who should we believe the Words of men or the Word of God?
In times of ignorance God winks at but now ,<when a KNOWLEDGE of the truth has come> calls all men everywhere to REPENT (FOLLOW) (Acts 17:30-31).