How To Be Un-Saved

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Senior Member
Dec 12, 2013
You know I found that making us continually give account of our beliefs is one of the ways in which "they" wear us out. (Daniel) So I'm going to drop the subject. For both of our sales. :)
No offence but that is not biblical....

Iron sharpens iron and Peter said to always be ready to give account of what you believe and why....dialogue is a good thing and what is at issue with us discussing???


Senior Member
Feb 22, 2018
I see. Okay Daniel isn't biblical. Well thanks for clearing that up for me.


Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
What I'm getting at is what causes the great falling away. To what will the Church fall away to. I know that satan will indwell the antichrist, but what allows it to happen? That's the mystery of iniquity.
The mystery of iniquity is man making himself out to be God,and being rebellious,which is caused by the prince of this world Satan,and the mystery of godliness is God being manifest in the flesh as a humble man.

The Church does not fall away,for the Church can never fall away.

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Mat 24:50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of,
Mat 24:51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
2Ti 2:21 If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

The only people that can belong to the Church is people that act like Christ led by the Spirit.Hypocrites do not belong to the Church although they can come to the physical building,but only people that act like Christ led by the Spirit are a Christian.

Hypocrites do not change Christianity,or void it out,for Christianity is the same no matter how people act,and the hypocrites do not belong to the Church,therefore their bad actions cannot reflect on Christianity for they are not part of the Church.

The Church can only be people that act like Christ led by the Spirit,therefore the Church can never fall away.

The reason the beast kingdom comes about.Technology is the main reason the beast kingdom comes about because the world can communicate,and travel to each other,which Daniel did not understand what was told him concerning the end time,but was told to go his way for he could not understand,but at the end time they will understand because of advanced travel,and advanced technology,allowing the saints to be able to know,see,and hear,what is going on in the world,and understand how they can rebel against God on a worldwide scale,in which the nations will come together and try to establish peace on earth and will rebel against God at the beast kingdom acknowledging no personal God.

Which Jesus told the disciples at the end time they will know of things that are happening around the world,nation against nation,and kingdom against kingdom,which we know of WW1,and WW2,and the wars that went on for some time now,and the worse war to come WW3,Islam against the world which causes the world to accept the man of sin as the solution to have peace on earth,and pestilences,and famines(hunger),and earthquakes.

And evolution is the second culprit why the beast kingdom comes about,along with people will be more selfish,arrogant,and self exalting,at the end time.

The beginning of the end.

Ti 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1Ti 4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
1Ti 4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
1Ti 4:4 For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
1Ti 4:5 For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

God warns the saints of the new age movement and their interpretation of the Bible based on the occult,nature worship,witchcraft,spiritual evolution through nature,and people can still evolve,and Jesus is not Lord and Savior,but a good teacher in spiritual enlightenment,and an ascended master,and avatar,and does not acknowledge a personal God,but honors the God of forces,or the power of nature as their higher power.

Which the Bible says the little horn,man of sin,beast,New Age Christ,will display the ways of the new age movement,for he will be in to the occult,nature worship,will cause craft to prosper on earth,witchcraft,that does not acknowledge the God of his fathers,and does not regard any god,but in his estate he will honor the God of forces,or a God his fathers knew not,and will convince the world that he harnessed the power of nature,and obtained power,evolved,and the false prophet will do miracles in the sight of people to convince them that the beast did obtain power through nature,and shared this power with the false prophet,and the beast will give this power to all who follow him.

But the Bible says they are lying miracles,and wonders,so the devil will falseify them somehow,and he will deceive all people who do not love God for He is allowing it for it is time to end this sin business on earth.

Alice Bailey,the biggest prophet of the new age movement,and wrote many books concerning it,and basically the blueprint of the movement,speaking of the coming one world government,one world religious system,and the New Age Christ,interpreted the Bible according to the occult,and evolution,and people can still evolve,which she believed Lucifer was a solar angel,and the fall of Lucifer in Isaiah 14 was not a fall in to sin and disgrace,but a sacrifice,and he descended from Venus,thus the fall,to bring the principle of mind to the then animal-man,and in the future will cause people to evolve through the power of nature.

They will forbid to marry between a man and a woman for population reduction,which will be international law one day,as they will want to care about the planet and the over population of it,and command to abstain from meats,for they worship nature,and are in to evolution.

2Ti 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
2Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

The new age movement is the future for this sinful world,and will develop in to a unified religious system based on evolution,and people can still evolve,and any person that teaches contrary to that will be guilty of a hate crime punishable in the international criminal court system,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth.

The time will come when the world will not want to hear the Bible according to what has been preached for thousands of years,but will only want to hear it according to the new age movement,which people will be more selfish,arrogant,and self exalting,at that time,which Jesus said since iniquity shall abound the love of many shall wax cold,and Paul said evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse,deceiving and being deceived,and the last days people will be without natural affection,and covetous,and the last generation the children will not want to obey their parents,and people will be highly selfish,highly arrogant,and aggressive towards each other not caring too much about the feelings of others,and will devour the poor from off the earth,and the needy from among men,for they will be so obsessed with money to exalt themselves that they will not care about those in need.

The Bible says the saints cannot be gathered unto Christ until there is a falling away first,and the man of sin claims to be God to the world.

God has to end this sin business on earth one day,for He is not going to allow people to keep sinning on earth forever,and God is love,and loves all people,and will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him,so He is going to allow the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,and when they take the mark of the beast then repentance,and salvation,is no longer available to them,and God can put them down.

God is giving the world 7 years to have their way,and cause all people that do not love Him to follow the beast kingdom,so Satan will work among the wicked like he could not do in the past,and in the middle of the 7 years period the restrain is off Satan concerning the wicked,and he will deceive all people that do not love God to follow the beast kingdom.

For the first three and one half years repentance,and salvation,is still available to the world,and the world will operate by the ten horn kingdom,the world split in to ten sections with a leader in each section,and a unified religious system,Mystery Babylon,which the Bible says Babylon will never have physical dominion again when she fell to the Medes and Persians,but her life was prolonged for a season and time,which means her ways are still on earth,and she represents the kingdom of man,and human religion,the occult,so this is Babylon in spirit,which Babylon has not fallen yet,the daughter of Babylon,but will fall in the future.

The falling away first is not the Church,but the condition of the world in response to the Gospel,which they stop the preaching of it,and illegal to preach it,on a world wide level,for the nations came together as one to try to achieve peace on earth.

During the first three and one half years the only legally allowed religion world wide is evolution through the power of nature,and practice whatever religious practices you want as long as it does not conflict with evolution is their religion,and Christianity will rapidly decline in impacting the world with the truth,and the time that the world will not want to hear the Bible according to what has been preached for thousands of years,but want to hear it according to the unified religious system.

The 6 trumpets are 6 warnings to the world to turn to God,which after the 6th trumpet the world does not reoent of their sins,and turn to God,but keep trying to solve their problems and to try to achieve peace on earth,despite the serious problems that occur on earth,which when the nations come together and say Peace and safety then sudden destruction comes upon them,and they shall not escape,which the big one is the religion of Islam rebelling against the ten horn kingdom,and the unified religious system.

An example is WW1,set up League of Nations,did not turn to God,WW2,set up United Nations,did not turn to God,and that pattern will continue until the 6th trumpet,and when the world does not repent of their sins,and turn to God,then He gives the world the man of sin to rule over them.

The 6th trumpet,Islam against the world in which Islam fights with a 200,000,000 men army,will be so terrible which the Bible describes nuclear weapons,and the man of sin,little horn,plucks up 3 horns by the roots,which it entails the Arab nations,and one third of the population of the world dies,which is concentrated mostly in the Arab nations,that the world turns to the man of sin as the solution to have peace on earth.

Then it is the falling away first,which is when the trangressors have come to the full,and then a man of fierce countenance,and understanding dark sentences shall stand up,and his power shall be mighty,but not by his own power for he gets his power from Satan,and when all who do not love God takes the mark of the beast,which has to do with technology to cut down on crime,and keep track of the citizens of the world,and the one world economic system,then God will end this sin business on earth.

The world did not turn to God,so He gave them the man of sin to rule over them,and war will break out in heaven in the middle of the 7 years period,and Michael and his angels will defeat the dragon and his angels,and the devils will be cast to earth,which the earth becomes the habitation of devils,and the hold of every foul spirit,and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird,and Satan is no longer the prince of the power of air,but the devils are confined to the earth.

The devils will deceive all people who do not love God,which is the strong delusion He will give all people that have pleasure in unrighteousness,and they will follow the beast kingdom,and make war against all people who keep the commandments of God,and hold the testimony of Jesus,which the Bible says the beast will make war against the saints and prevail against them,and will destroy the mighty and holy people,physically,and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years,and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people then all things are finished,which then cometh the end when the Son shall have delivered up the kingdom to the Father.

There are many other details along the way to the beast kingdom concerning the Jews,which they are protected for the 7 years period from physical attack,and the man of sin will establish peace in the Middle East at the start of the 7 years period,and it will pave the way for all Jews to go to Israel,which the man of sin wants them all in one place,but God means it for good and says He will cause all Jews to go to Israel,and leave none of them in the nations anymore.

The Gentile nations will come together and say Peace and safety as they try to establish peace on earth at the start of the 7 years period.

Israel is blinded in part,until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in,and so all Israel shall be saved.

At the end of the first three and one half years it is the falling away first,the transgresors are come to the full,the man of sin deceives all people that do not love God,and when they take the mark of the beast,then salvation is no longer available to them,and the fulness of the Gentiles will be come in,and God will send the Jews 2 witnesses to them and turn them to the truth as a nation that Jesus is their Messiah,which Jesus said the Jews will not see Him again until they say,blessed is He that comes in the name of the Lord,and at the end of the last three and one half years Israel as a nation will be in the truth,and the beast and the world will attack Jerusalem,Israel,which God said He will gather all nations together against Jerusalem,and then He will go forth and fight against those nations,and the LORD my God shall come and all the saints with thee,which Jesus comes back with His saints,defeats the world,and saves Israel,and so all Israel shall be saved,and the kingdom on earth restored to the Jews,and Jesus and saints will rule over the heathen that God spared at the battle of Armageddon.

Satan is bound and cast in to the bottomless pit for the millennial reign of Christ,and there is peace on earth,and Jesus and the saints will rule over the heathen who still have punishment coming but God postponed it,and at the end of the millennial reign Satan is loosed from the bottomless pit,and stirs up the heathen and they go against the saints,and God rains fire down on them and consumes them,and the millennial reign is over.

The dead rise and are judged at the great white throne judgment,and all who rejected the truth will not be saved,and all who never heard the word of God,or not sufficiently,will be judged by their belief of a higher power,for creation testifies there is a higher power and of His attributes,which one of them is love,for He provided food,and the means to make clothing,and shelter,and judged on their love of this higher power,and people,for the 2 greatest laws are love God,and love people,which is how a saint is saved,for love works no ill towards their neighbor,therefore love is the fulfilling of the law,and judged by their conscience,and have a repentant heart in case anything is amiss for they do not have the words of God to understand perfectly,and if they measured up to love God,and love people,they are saved,and will join those that accepted the truth.

The saints will then go to the new heaven,and new earth,the New Jerusalem,which is a placw where sin has never been and sin will never be,and sin and rebellion will never come up again,and the former heaven and earth shall not be remembered,nor come to mind,for they are associated with sin and rebellion.

And the saints will live forever in the love,joy,peace,and comfort,of God,at the New Jerusalem foever and ever.Amen.


This was on my Disqus this morning by CS Berean, and it was so good, I thought I'd share it here.

If a Born-Again Christian willingly chooses to lose their salvation, after receiving Jesus Christ as their personal Lord and Savior and repenting of their sin (Acts 2:38, 16:31; Rom 10:9-10), the common-sense, logical reality is that God, the Father, would have to ask Jesus, God the Son, to give back His gift of love to Him and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37) and ask God, the Holy Spirit to disobey the Father's commands and permanently withdraw His presence. The person would have to un-drink the water of eternal life given by Jesus and so that they will be thirsty again (Jn 4:14).

Jesus would have to do the following:

Quit as their defense attorney (1 Jn 2:1)
No longer protect or keep them safe (Jn 17:9-12)
Divorce them (Rev 19:7)
Rescind their citizenship of Heaven (Jn 15:16; Eph 2:12-13,19)
Put them back into the world (Jn 17:16)
Blot out their names from the book of life (Rev 3:5)
Allow death and life, angels and rulers, things present and things to come, powers, height, and depth, and anything else in all creation, to separate them from the love of God found in Him (Rom 8:38-39)
No longer be their advocate before the Father (1 John 2:1)
Make them an un-new creation (2 Cor 5:17);
Make them un-near to Him (Eph 2:12-13,19)
Un-bury them and un-baptize them so that they will no longer walk in newness of life(Rom 6:4)
Un-crucify their old nature (Gal 2:20)
Un-adopt them (Rom 8:23)
Un-circumcise them (Col 2:11)
Un-complete them (Col 2:9-10)
Un-author their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-finish their faith (Heb 12:2)
Un-hold them from the firm grasp of His hand (John 10:28-29)
Un-buy and refund the payment He made by His blood
Un-predestine them so they can no longer be conformed to His image
Un-sanctify them (John 17:17; Heb 10:14)
Un-deliver them from the domain of darkness (Col 1:13)
Un-transfer them out of His kingdom, where they were once conditionally sanctified daily (Rom 8:28-31; Eph 1:11)
Un-call them (Rom 8:30,9:24,; 1 Cor 1:2,9; Gal 5:13; Eph 1:18)
Un-justify them (Rom 3:24,28,5:9,10:10; 1 Cor 6:11; Titus 3:7)
Un-glorify them (Rom 8:25, 28-31)
Un-cancel all their spiritual debts (Col 2:13-14)
Un-seal them (2 Cor 1:22, 5:5; Eph 1:13, 4:30)
Un-wash them (Tutus 3:5)
Un-forgive them of all their sins (1 Cor 6:11)
Un-forget their sins (Heb 10:17)
Un-consider them holy (Eph 1:4)
Un-consider them blameless in His sight (Eph 1:4, 2:8; Rom 8:9,11:6)
Un-buy them (1 Cor: 6:19-20, 7:23-24)
Un-born them (1 Jn 2:29, 3:9, 4:7, 5:1,4,18)
Move out from living within them as the new Holy of Holies (1 John 2:19, 3:6,9; Rom 8:9)
Revoke their position of no longer living in His new nature (Rom 8:9)
Rescind and fail to honor His promise to never leave and forsake them (Heb 13:5)
Go back on and fail to honor His promise to never cast them out (Jn 6:37).

God, the Holy Spirit, who was given as a guarantee (2 Cor 5:5) would have to do the following:
Cut them out of His Will as co-heirs with Jesus (Rom 8:17).
Un-fill them (becoming un-Born-Again) (Col 2:9-10);
Un-anoint them (1 John 2:27)
Stop and undo His good work begun in them (Phil 1:6, 2:13)
Fail to honor His promise to keep them from stumbling until the end when Jesus comes again (1 Cor 1:8; Jude 1:24-25).

To say that an individual could be separated from the love of God or remove themselves from His firm grasp, and His promise to NEVER leave them, after He bought and paid for them, and they are His possession, as well as His dwelling place, the Holy of Holies, is at the very least, illogical and intellectually incongruous.

When God makes a promise, He NEVER reneges on, or breaks, His word.

Just saying...
There are some posts I expect people will read, appreciate, and then move on. This was one of them.

Who knew people could take this and argue well over 60 pages about it?

Bud, just wanted you to know -- still appreciate it.