Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

b....,

...and you can be wrong ....as many times as you present such wrong and non biblical conclusions.

You may wish to spend some of the time used ...for Bible study.

Baptism is required by scriptures for eternal salvation, unless you are stating that for other purposes.

Substitute P39 for b and then pay attention to everything up to the . after study....baptism is not required for eternal salvation! It is a picture of that which has already been done by faith..

 

[Katy-follower]

As for the thought many decide not to get baptised. I have been to many churches. Known many children of God. And I have never heard such a thing. In fact when I see new believers they usually can not wait to get baptised. For the few who really want to, but are afraid due to fear of public speaking. Even they eventually get baptised. So if people are not getting baptised. I would wonder deep and hard why. And wonder deep and hard why they are not following the HS. And i think you get the picture

For those of us that travel it's difficult. I've tried out a couple of places, but that feeling of having to up and leave again makes it difficult to commit to a local church. And churches are becoming ecumenical now too. I do get to visit different churches on my travels, but those are always quick fly-by visits. Don't think I can really do a fly-by water baptism

For some reason I don't feel a great urgency with it(?!), but will likely get to Israel this year or next, so as I said, will probably do it over there...

 

[joefizz]

I rejoice when people rejoice in Christ and His word.

The problems begin when Jesus's words become unacceptable to someone who claims
to follow Jesus.

Now as much as people want the argument or discussion to be about something else,
if you do not accept Jesus's words, He is not your Lord.

Now for any member of the Kingdom of Heaven this is no problem
'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,
your kingdom come, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven.
Give us today our daily bread.
Forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. '
For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Matt 6:9-14

Now here some stop and deny Christ. But our desire to follow our Lord is to see His
will on earth, to forgive those who sin against us, because we have been forgiven.

But this is too much for some. But in that moment they declare they are not sheep
of the Lord, but goats.

For them to be this honest and walk in the light, would be to admit they need to follow
Jesus and His words, and would be declaring they repent and desire His righteousness
in their lives, but sadly for some this day will never arise.

Aren't you forgetting something,you don't just "accept" Jesus's words you "keep them in your heart and strive to do them" and you posted "the sinner's prayer" now if you could just add them up, both halves to make a "whole"then things would be alot better for you.

 

[joefizz]

Want a definition of brain washing this is it.
The point is Jesus is our Lord and Saviour so we listen to Him.
Ignore His words, you are an evil doer who will be ignored out of the Lambs book of life.

This is no idle, legalistic view, His sheep listen to Him.

No, actually you and your pal (you both say the same thing, use the same verbiage and are one and the same) = the epitome of brainwashed sinless perfectionists and working for Pharisees......good luck with that!!

Brain washing-soaking up an extreme amount of one subject to the point that a person believes what they hear or read just because it "seems true" and has been reviewed "repetitively" without regard to if there is "more to" what they read or heard or even if it is "credible".

 

[joefizz]

Want a definition of brain washing this is it.
The point is Jesus is our Lord and Saviour so we listen to Him.
Ignore His words, you are an evil doer who will be ignored out of the Lambs book of life.

This is no idle, legalistic view, His sheep listen to Him.

you call us deaf, brainwashed, destitute orphans, and then chastise folks for getting angry and putting folks on ignore. wow.

do you actually read what you post?

Can the blind read what isn't at their fingers?

 

[joefizz]

My simple observation here is how this is interpreted.
When Jesus says, learn, listen, put into action, do, these are actions we are meant
to follow as believers in Him and as our Lord.

Lord means one who one respects, listens to, loves, would die for, who one is a servant to.
Now the obvious truth is if one does not listen to, understand or follow His instructions
He is not ones Lord.

Now anger rises for lots of reasons. I am not saying morally where people are when they
get angry, just observing this is a common response, even over obvious issues of following
Jesus. And a sign of not coping is the ignore feature.

Now if people want to say I am chastising them by making this observation, shows how little
they know what the words mean, and the observation I am making.

Ofcourse spiritual divides do exist, and many people believe different groups are full of the
Holy Spirit when clearly they are not.

One member talked about Mormons laying hands on them for healing, as if the Lord is going
to listen to Mormons? So the spiritual realities of the individuals here vary wildly, and the
statements are said without due care or understanding of the spiritual consequences.

But then the blind are in darkness, and lost, so all they know is hurt but not where it is
coming from, and issues in their heart, which they dare not look at.

So dear brothers and sisters in Christ, be as wise as serpents and as innocent as doves.
Grace and peace to you in Christ Jesus our Lord, Amen.

Oh don't you worry I "don't have you on ignore" because well quite frankly you aren't worth fretting over and also I find it pointless to put people on ignore,because if I let someone slide then how can I serve God?

 

[Rosemaryx]

I was brainwashed from birth , taught by the world , now Jesus is cleansing me ...

Romans 12:2 2 [FONT=&quot]And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what [/FONT]is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God...

Thank You God for calling us to Your precious beloved Son , we did not come on our own LORD , we heard Your calling to us , we bowed LORD to Your calling , nothing we have done to earn Your beautiful gift , for by Your grace we have been saved , not by our works Ooh God , we could never boast...We listen to Your voice O Lord because we are Your children , we will follow no other , for there is only one true God , and You O God are the true living God...

The closer we draw nearer to You O God , the more precious Your gift becomes , our faith is a gift from You O God , every thing we are becoming is because of You alone...We have nothing inside of us Lord to boast about , only Your wonderful works...In Jesus name Amen...

Have a lovely day/night all...xox...

 

[joefizz]

I was brainwashed from birth , taught by the world , now Jesus is cleansing me ...

Romans 12:2 2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God...

Thank You God for calling us to Your precious beloved Son , we did not come on our own LORD , we heard Your calling to us , we bowed LORD to Your calling , nothing we have done to earn Your beautiful gift , for by Your grace we have been saved , not by our works Ooh God , we could never boast...We listen to Your voice O Lord because we are Your children , we will follow no other , for there is only one true God , and You O God are the true living God...

The closer we draw nearer to You O God , the more precious Your gift becomes , our faith is a gift from You O God , every thing we are becoming is because of You alone...We have nothing inside of us Lord to boast about , only Your wonderful works...In Jesus name Amen...

Have a lovely day/night all...xox...

I hear ya,I remember so well when I was born that people were talking to me like babies and I thought "what is wrong with them"?

 

[Ariel82]

Oh don't you worry I "don't have you on ignore" because well quite frankly you aren't worth fretting over and also I find it pointless to put people on ignore,because if I let someone slide then how can I serve God?

i don't actually "ignore" anyone in the traditional sense.

sometimes i have limited time or really just need uplifting and encouragement from my brothers and sisters. at those times I don't want to read someone condemning me so I keep them hidden from my sight via "ignore" option.

however some days I feel God tell me to pray for those folks and I pray before reading their words and again before posting a response to them.

for me "ignore" means

I am
gonna
need
Obvious
Reminders to pray before
Engaging

so yeah i use the button and it really makes some folks mad because I don't always respond to them.

however God is okay with it because Jesus told us to "let the blind lead the blind for then both shall fall into a ditch"

i always wonder at people who condemn others as being blind why they don't listen to JESUS words?

Only the HOLY spirit grants sight and only by HIS power are we able to see the world as GOD does and not as sinful men and women.

 

[mailmandan]

Substitute P39 for b and then pay attention to everything up to the . after study....baptism is not required for eternal salvation! It is a picture of that which has already been done by faith..

Yes, forgiveness of sins, salvation, having been buried and raised with Christ is SIGNIFIED, yet NOT PROCURED in water baptism.

 

[Ariel82]

For those of us that travel it's difficult. I've tried out a couple of places, but that feeling of having to up and leave again makes it difficult to commit to a local church. And churches are becoming ecumenical now too. I do get to visit different churches on my travels, but those are always quick fly-by visits. Don't think I can really do a fly-by water baptism

For some reason I don't feel a great urgency with it(?!), but will likely get to Israel this year or next, so as I said, will probably do it over there...

I accepted Jesus for ten years before I was baptized because i found it hard to trust pastors to be truly men of God. People say its not about the pastor, but I do believe its about JOINING the body of Christ and OUTWARD confession of faith. It doesn't save a person but DOES make a statement to the spiritual realm that you are serious about being a DISCIPLE of Jesus and not just a follower. Judas Iscariot was a follower but not a disciple in that he followed Jesus in order to steal money but did not actually listen or believe that Jesus was HIS Messiah.

Some churches don't allow you to serve in ministry positions unless you are baptized and a member of the congregation. I think its a GOOD thing because i don't want random folks and new believers teaching Sunday school or working with children. i like that a background check and certain maturity in faith is needed.

so for me, baptism is more of a statement that you are ready to serve in a local church and start your own ministry, because before Jesus started His public ministry HE WAS BAPTIZED. However before His baptism, He still had the HOLY SPIRIT guiding Him in all He did.

Therefore I concluded that Baptism is important step but God will lead us to when we should have it and WHO should preform it.

 

[Ariel82]

I respected the pastor who baptized me because he would stop whatever he was doing if I asked for prayer and pray immediately out loud with me, no matter if we were alone waiting for the kids to arrive or on Sunday morning with a ton of people walking around. He closed his eyes and just prayed. It gave me courage to learn and pray out loud myself.

this site has helped to for me to learn to have a voice and that my words do matter and that God does want us to speak His truth with love.

when i was a teenager, i use to be labeled as quiet and "shy"

i had a hard time trusting people or believing anyone would actually listen.

God taught me HE always listens and I could pray to him whenever. sometimes He calls me to pray aloud, not because He can't hear my silent prayers, but because He needs to reveal to the other person that its because of our prayers HE is real and HE answered them. it was not coincidence but answers from GOD directly. Speaking prayers out loud is more to build our and others faith than to seek glory for self but give always glory to GOD.

I used to be silenced because I didn't want to be like the Pharisees praying in public for attention, but God showed me there is a difference between praying one on one with someone out loud and getting a loud speaker and seeking attention of men instead of seeking God and His answers.

anyway time for church.

Hi Dcon and all. a prayer before i go.

 

[Ariel82]

Dear Heavenly Father:

You know our hearts and you know our weaknesses and strengths. Help us to be blessing to others today and speak words of life from a heart overflowing with Your love, O God. Help us to see the world as YOU see it. Help us to recognize the lost and hurting and shine a light to lead them back home. Show to us how to feed the hungry, clothe the poor and give shelter to the weak. Lord You are wonderful and Your creation sings with Your praise and glory. Let us lift our hearts and minds and voices to join with the heavenly choir "Praise to Hosanna in the Highest" Let us lay our worries and fears upon the foot of the cross and run the race you have set before us today Lord. let us focus on the present and not worry about the future but trust in your loving care and providence. Give us heavenly wisdom and discernment to be firmly rooted upon Your truth and word.

In Jesus holy name we pray, amen.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Dear Heavenly Father:

You know our hearts and you know our weaknesses and strengths. Help us to be blessing to others today and speak words of life from a heart overflowing with Your love, O God. Help us to see the world as YOU see it. Help us to recognize the lost and hurting and shine a light to lead them back home. Show to us how to feed the hungry, clothe the poor and give shelter to the weak. Lord You are wonderful and Your creation sings with Your praise and glory. Let us lift our hearts and minds and voices to join with the heavenly choir "Praise to Hosanna in the Highest" Let us lay our worries and fears upon the foot of the cross and run the race you have set before us today Lord. let us focus on the present and not worry about the future but trust in your loving care and providence. Give us heavenly wisdom and discernment to be firmly rooted upon Your truth and word.

In Jesus holy name we pray, amen.

Amen...Praise be to God ...xox...

 

[VCO]

Aren't you forgetting something,you don't just "accept" Jesus's words you "keep them in your heart and strive to do them" and you posted "the sinner's prayer" now if you could just add them up, both halves to make a "whole"then things would be alot better for you.

Aren't you forgetting something! That is something we do out of LOVE FOR HIM, after we are SAVED, which is Born Again.

 

[LightLoveHope]

Aren't you forgetting something,you don't just "accept" Jesus's words you "keep them in your heart and strive to do them" and you posted "the sinner's prayer" now if you could just add them up, both halves to make a "whole"then things would be alot better for you.

Hi Joe,

You are highlighting a good point.
I am saying on the road to putting things into effect, is the first step of admitting
they apply. Without this first step nothing follows.

So someone who claims they know Jesus yet denies this first step will never obey
or put into practice because they reject it even applies.

And you seem to be thinking I need something better. Please tell me more, for
I have Christ, I have eternal life, I have love, forgiveness, fellowship, victory,
treasure in heaven. Is there something else you wish to encourage me in?

 

[TruthTalk]

I don't believe that Jesus mentioned that you must be water baptized even once in the NT. Jesus did not baptize a single person during His earthly ministry.

Prior to Jesus being led by the Holy Spirit to be tested in the wilderness, He was baptized by John who said, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Matthew3:14 If Jesus our Lord was baptized, then we should do like wise and be baptized Joyfully. Not as a work to save us but to publicly testify of our faith and oneness in Jesus Christ and His death, burial and resurrection.

It was the most honoring privilege I have ever known to have been baptized, "in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

The Great Commission
18) Then Jesus came to them and said, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.
19) Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
20) and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

 

[Endoscopy]

As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. gotquestions.org

I agree with you. Here is a part of scripture that is too often misunderstood.

I Timothy 2 AMPC (Amplified Classic)
11 Let a woman learn in quietness, in entire submissiveness.
12 I allow no woman to teach or to have authority over men; she is to remain in quietness and keep silence [in religious assemblies].

I get regular emails from Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg who is a Messianic Jew who is an expert on Biblical languages and times. He made an email about this kind of concept. Note he referenced other texts like this one.

Was Paul Right About Women?
Posted by
Dr. Eli Lizorkin-Eyzenberg

Date December 28, 2017

In 1 Cor. 14:34 the Apostle Paul’s letter states: “…the women should keep silent in the assemblies. For they are not permitted to speak but should be in submission, as the Law also says.” There are several major problems with this statement.

First, nowhere does the Jewish Law forbid women to speak in public gatherings. Paul, being a well-educated Jew, certainly would have known this. In fact, there was a law on the books that did forbid women to speak, vote and exercise authority over men by holding public office. It was not a Jewish, but a Roman law. These words would sound far more credible if someone else, other than the Jewish Apostle Paul, had written them.

Second, on numerous occasions throughout his travels and letters, the Apostle Paul affirmed the ministry of women (Rom 16:3-4; 1 Cor. 16:19; cf. Acts 16:11-40; 18:26). The centrality of the Shemah – the Oneness of Israel’s God, informed Paul’s theology when he wrote that in Christ-following assemblies there was no place for segregation or discrimination: “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.” (Gal. 3:28)

In 1 Corinthians 11:5, he wrote that a woman’s head must be covered while she is engaged in speaking in tongues or prophesying in a public assembly. The question was not, therefore, if a woman could speak and teach, but how it should be done in a way that would be right before God, angels and the people of Corinth.

When we read Paul’s letters we need to keep in mind that 1 Corinthians was not the beginning of this correspondence. Paul wrote at least one letter to the Corinthians prior to this (1 Cor. 5:9) and the Corinthian leadership had also written to him (1 Cor. 7:1). It is therefore highly probable that the statement in 1 Cor. 14:34-35 is a quotation from a letter that the Corinthian male leadership had addressed to Paul. It was their proposal on how to bring order into the disruptive practice of some women in the congregation as they spoke in tongues and prophesied. Paul, however, disagreed.

If this text is viewed as a quotation, then the challenge in 1 Cor. 14:36 that Paul brings to the male leadership makes perfect sense:

“Was it from you (masculine) that the word of God first went forth?! Or has it come to you (masculine) only?!”

The all-male leadership of the Corinthian congregation was not to forbid (women) to speak in tongues and themselves were to be encouraged to prophesy just as the women among them already were doing:

“Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy and do not forbid to speak in tongues. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner.” (1 Cor. 14:39-40)

Paul’s solution, therefore, was not to exclude half of the congregation from exercising the gifts of the Spirit, but rather to make sure that it was done in a respectful, proper and orderly fashion.

Was Paul right about women? Absolutely! His Corinthian opponents were not.

 

[benhur]

Exactly.....no wonder they miss the truth.....cannot even read and be honest with what is being said.....those in error will only see what they want to see....just like the Pharisees of old....all the while believing they can see yet were blind as bats with no echo location.....

You are very close to flaming in this post. Because I do not believe exactly like you believe does not mean that I cannot read, or that I am dishonest and it does not mean that I am as blind as a bat with no echo location. So be a little more kind with your rhetoric, like a good Christian would be.

You have been born of the spirit, so have I, and so has many other people on this forum. We all have our views about baptism and how important it is or how unimportant it is. I present my position, you do too, but you also call people who differ with you names, and that indicates that your position is weak. So learn how to discuss the issues without resorting to name calling and it will be better for all of us. After-all we are brothers in the gospel of Jesus Christ.

 

[VCO]

I know most of you all, have heard this song before, but for me I never heard it before we sang it in Church today. It touched my heart. It spoke to me that I HAVE NO LEG TO STAND ON BEFORE A HOLY GOD, BUT "THE BLOOD OF JESUS SPEAKS FOR ME!" Yes JESUS did it all!

[video=youtube;nL6ia1nUwxo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nL6ia1nUwxo[/video]