Proper Water Baptism procedure....

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mpaper345

Banned
#81
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#81
Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.

In the book of Luke it says baptism is to be done in Jesus' name.

In the book of Acts,Jews,Samaritans,and Gentiles,were all baptized in Jesus' name.

The Bible says there is no other name under heaven whereby we are saved but the name Jesus.Some people will say that it is not Jesus for that name was not used but since the last 200 years,but it also would mean that it is not Father,Son,and Holy Ghost,but a singular name.

The Bible says all you do in word and deed,do all in the name of Jesus.

This testifies that you cannot baptize but only in the name of Jesus.

In the Old Testament God the Father said that He would speak to them in the future and they would know His name which means God would come in flesh and reveal a new name to them which is Jesus.

The Old Testament says that the Father and Son would share the same name.

Jesus manifested the Father's name,declared the Father's name,came in the Father's name.
What name did Jesus manifest,declare,and come in,Jesus the Father's name.

The Bible says that the Son inherited the name Jesus from the Father.The name of the Father is Jesus and the Son inherited that name.The Father and Son share the same name which is Jesus.

The Father's name is Jesus.

The Son's name is Jesus.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus,and Jesus said He will send the Comforter,the Holy Spirit,to the saints,and then said,I will not leave you comfortless but will come to you.

The Holy Spirit's name is Jesus.

Jesus is the name of the Father,Son,and Holy Ghost.

Everything we do we are to do in Jesus' name.

Matt
 
R

Ricke

Guest
#82
#82
My reply with due respect to your assumptions on

II Corinthians 4 v 3 "But if our Gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost".

Verse 4 "in whom the god of this world, hath blinded the minds of them which beleive not, lest the light of the glorius gospel of Christ; who is THE IMAGE of God should shine unto them."

Finally; Matthew 13 v 13 " Therefore speak I unto them in parables, because they seeing see not; and hearing they her not, neither do they inderstand."

Case in point; tell us what " The right hand of God" is to your understanding.? Lol.
 
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mpaper345

Banned
#83
Feb 9, 2010
2,486
39
0
#83
The Bible says that there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne.

There is only one throne in heaven and not two thrones.

It is the throne of both God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus.

The right hand of God represents power,authority,and salvation.

Jesus is the power and salvation of God.

King David said the LORD said to my Lord sit thou on My right hand until I make your enemies My footstool.

The Bible says the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,and then the Son shall submit to God that God may be all in all.

Jesus said all power in heaven and earth is given to Him.

The Bible says there is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.
The man Christ Jesus is our savior for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on man's behalf.
No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus being at the right hand of God means that God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power because He is our savior,for a certain period of time,and then the Son shall submit to God that God may be all in all.

Jesus at the right hand of God does not mean that He has a throne next to the Father,but that God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power for a certain amount of time which is represented by Jesus being at His right hand.

There is only one throne in heaven and it is the throne of both God and the Lamb.

Matt
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#84
#84
God wants you to know Him as He is and which scripture teaches. Someday maybe you'll unplug your ears so that you can hear what God has said and I hope that occurs while you are still on this earth my misinformed friends. The heretical doctrine of Oneness Penetecostalism which trades the accuracy of scripture for the meditations of its founder John G. Schaepe who had been influenced by the rebellion of McAlister and decided that God was Jesus Christ and the other persons of God were avatars of Jesus. Like when you play a computer game you have an avatar in the game you're playing. It was that heretical and unscriptural. He then determined to twist scripture to conform to his heresy and they've been at it ever since.
 
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SantoSubito

Guest
#85
#85
forerunner said:
I can guarantee you, that you will not find any teaching from any ECF that even hints at a Trinity/separate persons of the God head before 150 A.D. I would even say before 200A.D. It really was formulated as taught today until late in the 4th century.
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I have no problem admitting that. Since you are so well versed in the ECFs you must know what Modalism is, right? Assuming you do you would know that Modalism (which matches Oneness theology almost exactly) was condemned as heresy in the 3rd century. Anyway as far as the ECF teaching on the Trinity these quotes are some of the more telling.

Polycarp (A.D. 70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.

"O Lord God almighty... I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Athenagoras

For, as we acknowledge a God, and a Son his Logos, and a Holy Spirit, united in essence, - the Father, the Son, the Spirit because the Son is intelligence, reason, wisdom of the Father, and the Spirit an effluence, as light from fire; so also do we apprehend the existence of other powers, which exercise dominion about matter, and by means of it (A Plea for the Christians, 2:18 [A.D. 177]).

Irenaeus

For the Son, who is the Word of God, arranged these things beforehand from the beginning, the Father being in no want of angels, in order that He might call the creation into being, and form man, for whom also the creation was made; nor, again, standing in need of any instrumentality for the framing of created things, or for the ordering of those things which had reference to man; while, [at the same time,] He has a vast and unspeakable number of servants. For His offspring and His similitude do minister to Him in every respect; that is, the Son and the Holy Spirit, the Word and Wisdom; whom all the angels serve, and to whom they are subject (Against Heresies 4:7:4 [A.D. 180-190]).


Theophilus of Antioch

The three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His Wisdom (To Autolycus 2:18 [A.D. 181]).


Clement of Alexandria

And the address in the Timœus calls the creator, Father, speaking thus: ‘Ye gods of gods, of whom I am Father; and the Creator of your works.’ So that when he says, ‘Around the king of all, all things are, and because of Him are all things; and he [or that] is the cause of all good things; and around the second are the things second in order; and around the third, the third,’ I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father (The Stromata 5:14 [A.D. 202]).

Hippolytus

A man, therefore, even though he will it not, is compelled to acknowledge God the Father Almighty, and Christ Jesus the Son of God, who, being God, became man, to whom also the Father made all things subject, Himself excepted, and the Holy Spirit; and that these, therefore, are three. But if he desires to learn how it is shown still that there is one God, let him know that His power is one. As far as regards the power, therefore, God is one. But as far as regards the economy there is a threefold manifestation, as shall be proved afterwards when we give account of the true doctrine (Against the Heresy of One Noetus 8 [A.D. 200-210]).

Tertullian

…All are of One, by unity (that is) of substance; while the mystery of the dispensation is still guarded, which distributes the Unity into a Trinity, placing in their order the three Persons – the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost: three, however, not in condition, but in degree; not in substance, but in form; not in power, but in aspect; yet of one substance, and of one condition, and of one power, inasmuch as He is one God, from whom these degrees and forms and aspects are reckoned, under the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost (Against Praxeus 2 [A.D. 213]).


…all the Scriptures attest the clear existence of, and distinction in (the Persons of) the Trinity, and indeed furnish us with our Rule of faith…. (ibid. 11[A.D. 213]).
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Additionally in support of Trinitarian baptism i would bring in the Didache and Saint Justin Martyr.

And concerning baptism, baptize this way: Having first said all these things, baptize into the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, in living water. But if you have no living water, baptize into other water; and if you cannot do so in cold water, do so in warm. But if you have neither, pour out water three times upon the head into the name of Father and Son and Holy Spirit. But before the baptism let the baptizer fast, and the baptized, and whoever else can; but you shall order the baptized to fast one or two days before.- (Didache, Chapter 7 [A.D. 70 - 100]

Justin Martyr (A.D. 100-165).

"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).
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R

Ricke

Guest
#86
#86
Matt

God bless you. Ladies and Gentlemen here is Matt another one of Gods children who is given the same enlightment I also possess. He nailed the question perfectly. I imagine forerunner sees this as well...keep on keeping on My Brothers!
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#87
#87
Ricke said:
Matt

God bless you. Ladies and Gentlemen here is Matt another one of Gods children who is given the same enlightment I also possess. He nailed the question perfectly. I imagine forerunner sees this as well...keep on keeping on My Brothers!
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He nailed a Oneness Penetecostal heresy is all he nailed.

At the baptism ofJesus (Matt. 316-17), all three members of the Trinity were present together: "As soon as Jesus [Son] was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God [Spirit] descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven [Father] said, 'This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.'"

In the baptismal formula (Matt. 28:19) it places all three under one "name" (singular), saying: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

Likewise, in an apostolic benediction (e.g., 2 Cor. 13:14), all three names are present together. Paul prayed, "May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ [Son], and the love of God [Father], and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit [Spirit] be with you all."

All of these passages and many more indicate that there are three different and distinct persons who exist simultaneously and eternally and who share one and the same essence or nature. This is in stark contrast to Oneness Doctrine heresy or modalism (sabellianism) heresy.

The early scholars certainly concurred. Origen Adamantius, (c. 185–254 AD) was an early Christian scholar and theologian, and one of the most distinguished writers of the early Christian Church, spoke of the fact that the person of the Holy Spirit was of such authority and dignity, that saving baptism was not complete except by the authority of the most excellent Trinity of them all, i.e., by the naming of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and by joining them to the unbegotten God the Father, and to His only-begotten Son, the name also of the Holy Spirit. (ibid., 1.2).

It is without a doubt Trinity was present, taught, and practiced in the apostolic and early church and that included baptism.

The baptismal formula of Matthew 28:19 contains the Holy Spirit along with the other members of the Trinity all under one "name" [essence]: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit."

That they certainly did.

​
 
Shard

Shard

Banned
#88
Jul 8, 2010
309
3
0
#88
wait so let me get this straight...I should baptize by the way the apostles did, even though they in the end were still human, and ignore baptizing in the way Jesus Christ told us too in Matthew 28:19...alright I think I understand you, but then i think of all the various creeds(Nicene/Apostles) Where there are three separate sections...To me oneness seems blatantly false and highly sacreligious.
 
R

Ricke

Guest
#89
#89
Shard
If you go back to the very post on this thread., which I started exactly what Jesus was actually telling his Apostles to do. Read all my posts, you'll see I have already explained it.

Jesus said "In The Name of.........." it is a preposional phrase which refers back to the Name. Father, Son, are TITLES not a Name. This is why every Baptism recorded in Acts is in Jesus' Name.
 
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Ricke

Guest
#90
#90
Ageofknowledge
Sorry Bro, none of the Original Apostles of Jesus ever taught a tribune Godhead. What happened after the Scriptures were finished is another story....
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#91
#91
Shard said:
wait so let me get this straight...I should baptize by the way the apostles did, even though they in the end were still human, and ignore baptizing in the way Jesus Christ told us too in Matthew 28:19...alright I think I understand you, but then i think of all the various creeds(Nicene/Apostles) Where there are three separate sections...To me oneness seems blatantly false and highly sacreligious.
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Shard,

A number of Oneness Pentecostals are propigating their heresy in this thread. Read my posts and educate yourself. I am an authentic mainstream evangelical Christian with a seminary degree sharing scripture, apostolic teaching, early church history, etc... properly. There are others like me in this thread including a Greek Orthodox brother who stays within the Eastern Orthodox doctrine but who falls under authentic Christianity and I praise alll of their efforts in providing the sound doctrine they do and enjoy it as well.

Now, in contrast, some here are sharing the heresy of the Oneness Doctrine. They hold to the sudden "revelation" of their sect founder who deviated from the theological parameters of historic Christianity. His fruit here have been trying to show that the heretic was right though he was wrong.

Here's an article to help you understand what's happening:

What is Oneness Pentecostal theology? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry

God loves them very much and wants them to know Him as He really is in all his fulness: God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. But they are deceived on many points at this time.

Again, God LOVES you, me, and them. He loves the lost, the deceived, and those in the light walking in the truth of His Word. He wants all people everywhere to know him as he really is but the enemy is out there deceiving people and this is the sort of thing that results from that.

God bless you!
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
#92
#92
Ricke, the original Apostles of Jesus taught a Triune Godhead exactly as scripture reveals. What happened after the Scriptures were finished is another story.... modalist cults like Oneness emerged and were excommunicated for their heresy.
 
Shard

Shard

Banned
#93
Jul 8, 2010
309
3
0
#93
oh and if it wasnt apparent i was being sarcatic about the onenessians..
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#94
#94
forerunner said:
The Father and the Son indeed are distinct as the Son is Human and the Father is God. The thing is Jesus was both God the Father ,and man the Son.
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So that would be one witness.
 
C

charisenexcelcis

Guest
#95
#95
The United Pentecostal/Apostolic view of oneness did not come about as a result of scholarship, but rather by a direct "revelation" that occured in 1914. This revelation was that the Lord Jesus Christ was the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The proponents of this theology were then expelled from the Assemblies of God.
From the UPC: With the coming of the Holy Spirit, the word of the Lord became a new book. Truths which had been hidden for many years became clear. In 1914 came the revelation on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Again: This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in divers ways; in the Son while He walked among men; as the Holy Spirit after His ascension.

Finally: The basic and fundamental doctrine of this organization shall be the Bible standard of full salvation, which is repentance, baptism in water by full immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.

Since there is much discussion of oneness in general and the UPC in general, I thought I would post this information. By the way, they do not baptize in the name of "Jesus" only, they baptize in the name of the "Lord Jesus Christ".
 
F

forerunner

Banned
#97
Jun 29, 2010
398
0
0
#97
mpaper345 said:
The Bible says that there is one throne in heaven and one who sits on that throne.

There is only one throne in heaven and not two thrones.

It is the throne of both God and the Lamb,God in the glorified body of His Son,the man Christ Jesus.

The right hand of God represents power,authority,and salvation.

Jesus is the power and salvation of God.

King David said the LORD said to my Lord sit thou on My right hand until I make your enemies My footstool.

The Bible says the Son must reign until all His enemies are conquered,and then the Son shall submit to God that God may be all in all.

Jesus said all power in heaven and earth is given to Him.

The Bible says there is one God,and one mediator between God and men,the man Christ Jesus.
The man Christ Jesus is our savior for only a sinless man can approach a holy God on man's behalf.
No man is sinless so God manifest all His attributes to the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus being at the right hand of God means that God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power because He is our savior,for a certain period of time,and then the Son shall submit to God that God may be all in all.

Jesus at the right hand of God does not mean that He has a throne next to the Father,but that God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power for a certain amount of time which is represented by Jesus being at His right hand.

There is only one throne in heaven and it is the throne of both God and the Lamb.

Matt
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Well said!!!!
 
F

forerunner

Banned
#98
Jun 29, 2010
398
0
0
#98
charisenexcelcis said:
The United Pentecostal/Apostolic view of oneness did not come about as a result of scholarship, but rather by a direct "revelation" that occured in 1914. This revelation was that the Lord Jesus Christ was the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. The proponents of this theology were then expelled from the Assemblies of God.
From the UPC: With the coming of the Holy Spirit, the word of the Lord became a new book. Truths which had been hidden for many years became clear. In 1914 came the revelation on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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This is totally ridiculous. I for one have never stepped into a Oneness pentecostal church. I got the understanding of Oneness through scripture and the guidence of the Holy Spirit. I didn;t even hear of the teaching until about 6 months after God had helped me to formulate it myself. I was over joyed to find out that there was someo0ne else that actually believed as I did, (I being raised trinitarian)

Again: This one true God manifested Himself in the Old Testament in divers ways; in the Son while He walked among men; as the Holy Spirit after His ascension.
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This is not even the view of the UPC. This is modalism a form of oneness I guess, but certainly not the form I adhere to.

Finally: The basic and fundamental doctrine of this organization shall be the Bible standard of full salvation, which is repentance, baptism in water by full immersion in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the initial sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance.
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To be saved you do need to repent TRUE REPENTANCE, be baptized in the name of Jesus, and if we are saved we should seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit as well. One does not need to speak in tongues to get into heaven. Not in my book at least. But remember I am not a member of the UPC

Since there is much discussion of oneness in general and the UPC in general, I thought I would post this information. By the way, they do not baptize in the name of "Jesus" only, they baptize in the name of the "Lord Jesus Christ".
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So did the Apostles. The book of Acts is where they get their formula as should we all.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#99
#99
forerunner said:
This is totally ridiculous. I for one have never stepped into a Oneness pentecostal church. I got the understanding of Oneness through scripture and the guidence of the Holy Spirit. I didn;t even hear of the teaching until about 6 months after God had helped me to formulate it myself. I was over joyed to find out that there was someo0ne else that actually believed as I did, (I being raised trinitarian)

This is not even the view of the UPC. This is modalism a form of oneness I guess, but certainly not the form I adhere to.

To be saved you do need to repent TRUE REPENTANCE, be baptized in the name of Jesus, and if we are saved we should seek the baptism of the Holy Spirit as well. One does not need to speak in tongues to get into heaven. Not in my book at least. But remember I am not a member of the UPC

So did the Apostles. The book of Acts is where they get their formula as should we all.
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All of these are from the UPC. Their publications, their words.
 
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charisenexcelcis

Guest
#100
#100
Acts 2:38 "Jesus Christ"
Acts 8:16 "Lord Jesus"
Acts 10:48 "Jesus Christ"
Acts 19:5 "Lord Jesus"

A UPC pastor once explained why they use "Lord Jesus Christ". He said Lord=Father, Jesus=Son, and Christ=Holy Spirit. Another UPC pastor told me he was correct, but I don't know if that is the denominational line.
 
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