Not By Works
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You are right, motive matters. Without the HS leading, our actions are futile and are just filthy rags. But with the HS leading, our actions are bright and shining examples of who we are, the children of God. And our actions (good works) glorify God in all ways. In our belief and faith in Jesus and his grace, I go forward unto doing good works? To me the combination is important.
In your zealous belief and faith in Jesus, do you not go forward unto all good works to help Jesus build up his kingdom here on earth?
In your zealous belief and faith in Jesus, do you not go forward unto all good works to help Jesus build up his kingdom here on earth?
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Yahshua/Jesus says:
John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]
John 5:28-30, “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the tombs shall hear His voice, and shall come forth – those who have done* righteousness, to the resurrection of life, and those who have practiced* evil matters, to a resurrection of judgment. Of Myself I am unable to do any matter. As I hear, I judge, and My judgment is righteous, because I do not seek My own desire, but the desire of the Father who sent Me.”[/FONT]
Well, my battery is running out while waiting for him to answer. Someone else take a stab at answering. 
not outright with admitted writing from the O.p.
no, of course not.
it is only subtly insinuated in order to cause strife.
There is no edification in this thread, zero.
A fruitless fig tree.
Has anyone even sat down and listened to the Ruach of Life and taken into account where they are going to store treasures?
If not, what kind of tent is the person who is left only with a foundation.
Well, i will encourage everyone to build, and if not they will be sharply rebuked by our Lord when he gets here.
[FONT="]“The Kingdom of Heaven at that time will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible. 3 The foolish ones took lamps with them but no oil, 4 whereas the others took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 Now the bridegroom was late, so they all went to sleep. 6 It was the middle of the night when the cry rang out, ‘The bridegroom is here! Go out to meet him!’ 7 The girls all woke up and prepared their lamps for lighting. 8 The foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’ 9 ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both you and us. Go to the oil dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10 But as they were going off to buy, the bridegroom came. Those who were ready went with him to the wedding feast, and the door was shut. 11 Later, the other bridesmaids came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they cried, ‘Let us in!’ 12 But he answered, ‘Indeed! I tell you, I don’t know you!’ 13 So stay alert, because you know neither the day nor the hour.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 “For it will be like a man about to leave home for awhile, who entrusted his possessions to his servants. 15 To one he gave five talents [equivalent to a hundred years’ wages]; to another, two talents; and to another, one talent — to each according to his ability. Then he left. 16 The one who had received five talents immediately went out, invested it and earned another five. 17 Similarly, the one given two earned another two. 18 But the one given one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 “After a long time, the master of those servants returned to settle accounts with them. 20 The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the other five and said, ‘Sir, you gave me five talents; here, I have made five more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Excellent! You are a good and trustworthy servant. You have been faithful with a small amount, so I will put you in charge of a large amount. Come and join in your master’s happiness!’ 22 Also the one who had received two came forward and said, ‘Sir, you gave me two talents; here, I have made two more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Excellent! you are a good and trustworthy servant. You have been faithful with a small amount, so I will put you in charge of a large amount. Come and join in your master’s happiness!’[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 “Now the one who had received one talent came forward and said, ‘I knew you were a hard man. You harvest where you didn’t plant and gather where you didn’t sow seed. 25 I was afraid, so I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here! Take what belongs to you!’ 26 ‘You wicked, lazy servant!’ said his master, ‘So you knew, did you, that I harvest where I haven’t planted? and that I gather where I didn’t sow seed? 27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, so that when I returned, I would at least have gotten back interest with my capital! 28 Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten. 29 For everyone who has something will be given more, so that he will have more than enough; but from anyone who has nothing, even what he does have will be taken away. 30 As for this worthless servant, throw him out in the dark, where people will wail and grind their teeth!’[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be assembled before him,[/FONT]
no, of course not.
it is only subtly insinuated in order to cause strife.
There is no edification in this thread, zero.
A fruitless fig tree.
Has anyone even sat down and listened to the Ruach of Life and taken into account where they are going to store treasures?
If not, what kind of tent is the person who is left only with a foundation.
Well, i will encourage everyone to build, and if not they will be sharply rebuked by our Lord when he gets here.
[FONT="]“The Kingdom of Heaven at that time will be like ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible. 3 The foolish ones took lamps with them but no oil, 4 whereas the others took flasks of oil with their lamps. 5 Now the bridegroom was late, so they all went to sleep. 6 It was the middle of the night when the cry rang out, ‘The bridegroom is here! Go out to meet him!’ 7 The girls all woke up and prepared their lamps for lighting. 8 The foolish ones said to the sensible ones, ‘Give us some of your oil, because our lamps are going out.’ 9 ‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both you and us. Go to the oil dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ 10 But as they were going off to buy, the bridegroom came. Those who were ready went with him to the wedding feast, and the door was shut. 11 Later, the other bridesmaids came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they cried, ‘Let us in!’ 12 But he answered, ‘Indeed! I tell you, I don’t know you!’ 13 So stay alert, because you know neither the day nor the hour.[/FONT]
[FONT="]14 “For it will be like a man about to leave home for awhile, who entrusted his possessions to his servants. 15 To one he gave five talents [equivalent to a hundred years’ wages]; to another, two talents; and to another, one talent — to each according to his ability. Then he left. 16 The one who had received five talents immediately went out, invested it and earned another five. 17 Similarly, the one given two earned another two. 18 But the one given one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.[/FONT]
[FONT="]19 “After a long time, the master of those servants returned to settle accounts with them. 20 The one who had received five talents came forward bringing the other five and said, ‘Sir, you gave me five talents; here, I have made five more.’ 21 His master said to him, ‘Excellent! You are a good and trustworthy servant. You have been faithful with a small amount, so I will put you in charge of a large amount. Come and join in your master’s happiness!’ 22 Also the one who had received two came forward and said, ‘Sir, you gave me two talents; here, I have made two more.’ 23 His master said to him, ‘Excellent! you are a good and trustworthy servant. You have been faithful with a small amount, so I will put you in charge of a large amount. Come and join in your master’s happiness!’[/FONT]
[FONT="]24 “Now the one who had received one talent came forward and said, ‘I knew you were a hard man. You harvest where you didn’t plant and gather where you didn’t sow seed. 25 I was afraid, so I went and hid your talent in the ground. Here! Take what belongs to you!’ 26 ‘You wicked, lazy servant!’ said his master, ‘So you knew, did you, that I harvest where I haven’t planted? and that I gather where I didn’t sow seed? 27 Then you should have deposited my money with the bankers, so that when I returned, I would at least have gotten back interest with my capital! 28 Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has ten. 29 For everyone who has something will be given more, so that he will have more than enough; but from anyone who has nothing, even what he does have will be taken away. 30 As for this worthless servant, throw him out in the dark, where people will wail and grind their teeth!’[/FONT]
[FONT="]31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, accompanied by all the angels, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be assembled before him,[/FONT]
I believe the Lord is being quite specific here.
ten bridesmaids who took their lamps and went out to meet the groom. 2 Five of them were foolish and five were sensible.
(sensible, wise women who love their husband)
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To one he gave five talents ; to another, two talents; and to another, one talent — to each according to his ability. Then he left. 16 The one who had received five talents immediately went out, invested it and earned another five. 17 Similarly, the one given two earned another two. 18 But the one given one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money.
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Above are some visual tools to help.
]the first person who has learned about the Congregation of God, their faith has made them whole.
]the second? ...everyone is welcome to hear.
]the third?
This a pretty fair mish mash here peter.
And now you have answered my question with this question: and who is my brother?
Because you seem to be saying to murder an unbeliever with anger is okay but it is not okay to murder a believer with anger.
So love your enemies has become love those who do good to you.
You are going further and further off track.
The question was this: If you are rude to me and I become angry, is that anger with cause or anger without cause?
I will use myself as an example. Someone was very rude in here to me a while back. This would appear to be a cause for me to have anger in my heart at them, which is to murder them, to fume about how badly they treated me and how sharp and nasty they were to me with their words and to want to exact payment from them for their sin against me.
But I have been rude and sharp with others before. So where has my cause gone? If I am guilty of the same thing, where is my cause? Can I throw a stone of anger at them and murder them for their sin, when I have been guilty of the same sin?
My sin was forgiven. Can I then go out and beat someone else and demand payment? That is holding them to a standard I have not been held to. It is to have my debt forgiven and then go out and demand payment from them. And I'm told if I do this, I will be thrown back into prison until I pay my debt.
And if I will be judged in the same manner that I judge, then because I murder them, how will I be judged for doing the same exact thing?
In the Greek, their are FOUR KINDS OF LOVE.
English is a POOR Language to translate the Bible into, but it is all I understand. And YES the example you used, is the GREATEST FORM OF LOVE; which means their are also lesser forms of love. I believe that GREATEST FORM OF LOVE, cannot be accomplished WITHOUT GOD's LOVE being present IN YOU.
Have a look at what DC is saying.
"We are saved by faith alone, at that point we are placed in the vine"
So is that true or not?
Are we saved by faith or not?
Then DC states that having been saved by faith and in the vine then we grow, mature and are transforming.
Effectively sanctification.
He is saying if you're in the vine you will grow as a result of your faith in Jesus.
But he is not saying if there is no evidence of growth that its of little concern.
I'm sure he would be concerned.
I'm also sure that if he was concerned with a believer he would pull them aside, talk to them and walk with them.
I'm sure he will correct me if I have got his thoughts wrong.
If we think about it.
Did any works save us before we came to Jesus?
Jesus said
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
So the work of God is to believe in Jesus, so Jesus after he rose again goes back to the Father, the Holy Spirit then comes to convict us of the sin of unbelief in Jesus.
So we see that this is the work of God.
We repent of that unbelief then we are placed in the vine.
Placing our faith in Jesus is not a work.
That's changing from disobedience to obedience.
When we place faith in Jesus it's the start of a new season, a new walk, being a new man.
You raise an interesting point when you say "If I choose to be obedient"
Bear with me on this one, it may not make sense but I hope you get my intent.
We know that the works we do are either good are bad.
A simple example to look at is adultery.
Paul said adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Now a married person may never commit adultery. They may never physically sleep with another person and would never consider doing so. Great work.
The reverse.
Jesus said "Even if you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery"
If you do so its a bad work.
Therefore we have to choose to be obedient and not go down that route.
When we do then we are doing good works as such.
As Jesus increases in us, we decrease.
Obedience to works are not just the physical but also the spiritual.
"We are saved by faith alone, at that point we are placed in the vine"
So is that true or not?
Are we saved by faith or not?
Then DC states that having been saved by faith and in the vine then we grow, mature and are transforming.
Effectively sanctification.
He is saying if you're in the vine you will grow as a result of your faith in Jesus.
But he is not saying if there is no evidence of growth that its of little concern.
I'm sure he would be concerned.
I'm also sure that if he was concerned with a believer he would pull them aside, talk to them and walk with them.
I'm sure he will correct me if I have got his thoughts wrong.
If we think about it.
Did any works save us before we came to Jesus?
Jesus said
John 6:29
29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent.”
John 16:8-9
8 And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: 9 of sin, because they do not believe in Me;
So the work of God is to believe in Jesus, so Jesus after he rose again goes back to the Father, the Holy Spirit then comes to convict us of the sin of unbelief in Jesus.
So we see that this is the work of God.
We repent of that unbelief then we are placed in the vine.
Placing our faith in Jesus is not a work.
That's changing from disobedience to obedience.
When we place faith in Jesus it's the start of a new season, a new walk, being a new man.
You raise an interesting point when you say "If I choose to be obedient"
Bear with me on this one, it may not make sense but I hope you get my intent.
We know that the works we do are either good are bad.
A simple example to look at is adultery.
Paul said adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Now a married person may never commit adultery. They may never physically sleep with another person and would never consider doing so. Great work.
The reverse.
Jesus said "Even if you look at a woman lustfully you have committed adultery"
If you do so its a bad work.
Therefore we have to choose to be obedient and not go down that route.
When we do then we are doing good works as such.
As Jesus increases in us, we decrease.
Obedience to works are not just the physical but also the spiritual.
You are the one that put my character in a bad light in your post #57584. Here is what you said:
You should be more concerned with the lovers of self who use Jesus to justify their hypocrisy.
So I responded by saying is my faith and trust in Jesus compromised by my doing good works? Because you obviously think that because I talk about good works I am somehow a lover of myself and even use Jesus to justify my hypocrisy. You want to talk about an odd statement from one bible-reading Christian to another bible-reading Christian.
What that statement says to me, loud and clear is: if I do not believe the way you believe 100%, then I am a lover of myself and I use Jesus to justify my hypocrisy.
And BTW, what hypocrisy do I justify?
You should be more concerned with the lovers of self who use Jesus to justify their hypocrisy.
So I responded by saying is my faith and trust in Jesus compromised by my doing good works? Because you obviously think that because I talk about good works I am somehow a lover of myself and even use Jesus to justify my hypocrisy. You want to talk about an odd statement from one bible-reading Christian to another bible-reading Christian.
What that statement says to me, loud and clear is: if I do not believe the way you believe 100%, then I am a lover of myself and I use Jesus to justify my hypocrisy.
And BTW, what hypocrisy do I justify?