Matt. 28:19...Who?

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Nessuno said:
And that would pertain to whom exactly?

-The 1st century disciples to whom he actually spoke the words to

-Any individual who claims to be a follower of Christ

-Any religious organization in Christendom or who claim to be Christian

-Only certain religions [If so, please provide a name(s)]

-Other
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It was both a direct command to the disciples that were right in front of him at the time it was said, AND, an ageless command to the church (universal) to continue to follow that command.
The reason why is contained in the command itself - the Great Commission - is not yet complete!
 
It is interesting to me, that vv.19-20 is preceded by 'therefore' - implying that this 'comission' follows logically as a direct consequence of what He says in v. 18

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

"therefore.."

Thoughts about this?
 
oldhermit said:
To anyone who is part of that same pattern. Time is irrelevant. Why don't you just cut to the chase and say what is on your mind instead of all this nonsense.
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Yeah...his Op post seems more like a "poll" if that's what he would prefer he could have one.
 
posthuman said:
It is interesting to me, that vv.19-20 is preceded by 'therefore' - implying that this 'comission' follows logically as a direct consequence of what He says in v. 18

Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus came to them and said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

"therefore.."

Thoughts about this?
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Absolutely on the money!
It literally follows...
 
oldhermit said:
To anyone who is part of that same pattern. Time is irrelevant. Why don't you just cut to the chase and say what is on your mind instead of all this nonsense.
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What nonsense?

I am asking simple, direct questions and so far I have had only one person with the conviction of their beliefs answer me directly.
 
Nessuno said:
What nonsense?

I am asking simple, direct questions and so far I have had only one person with the conviction of their beliefs answer me directly.
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Your questions have been answered, you just don't seem to like the answer. What is your agenda? It is certainly not to learn who is authorized to baptize.
 
graceNpeace said:
It was both a direct command to the disciples that were right in front of him at the time it was said, AND, an ageless command to the church (universal) to continue to follow that command.
The reason why is contained in the command itself - the Great Commission - is not yet complete!
Click to expand...

Who make up the "universal" church? Are they (is it) identifiable physically or by name, or is it only known to God.
 
Nessuno said:
Who make up the "universal" church? Are they (is it) identifiable physically or by name, or is it only known to God.
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So, you are absolutely intent on playing twenty questions I see?

The "universal church" is a well known theological phrase that means all believers (Christians) from all time.
Nothing to do with denominations or local congregations. Some of the "universal church" may not even be part of a local congregation.
Who they are, in detailed absolute terms, is known only to God.
 
Nessuno said:
What nonsense?

I am asking simple, direct questions and so far I have had only one person with the conviction of their beliefs answer me directly.
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I'm sorry, I posted something kind of tangential without any address towards your original question. Guilty!

As for me, I find it difficult to believe that from this directive to the 11 that it follows every believer must be an evangelistic missionary. I have heard many people take this approach to the verse and try to compel everyone in the church to to knocking on doors and travelling to Cuba and whatnot - but i think i see a conflict with the description of us as a body, each with our own callings and functions and given talents.

This isn't to say that we should not all, in some capacity, participate in the great work of discipleship and proclamation of the good news, and i certainly don't mean 'participate by giving us money' as certain 'visiting evangelists' are wont to do, neither do i mean to discourage material support of our brothers qnd sisters, as we may be purposed in our hearts to give. I mean that we all move within our own circles in our own positions, and elsewhere it is written, to the effect, stay in that in which you were called. So we may very well disciple others and evangelize in ways that don't superficially resemble what the first carriers of this gospel were themselves compelled to do, in keeping with the spirit of what was commanded specifically to specific persons.
 
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oldhermit said:
Your questions have been answered, you just don't seem to like the answer. What is your agenda? It is certainly not to learn who is authorized to baptize.
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So far I have been answered with:

"It was to the disciples.... but it has further application to other churches throughout all ages"

"One could say that the Great Commission was given to the Church -- the Body of Christ (redeemed Jews and Gentiles)."

" But as far as Christ's command to baptize believers, that is still valid for each and every church which claims to be Christian."

"To anyone who is part of that same pattern."

And this reply on another thread which prompted me to ask the question here: "Good point Nessuno, I always said we should take authority in the name of Jesus. We are baptizing as a proxy agent to our Lord."






 
graceNpeace said:
So, you are absolutely intent on playing twenty questions I see?

The "universal church" is a well known theological phrase that means all believers (Christians) from all time.
Nothing to do with denominations or local congregations. Some of the "universal church" may not even be part of a local congregation.
Who they are, in detailed absolute terms, is known only to God.
Click to expand...

Finally, you actually answered a question.
 
Nessuno said:
So far I have been answered with:

"It was to the disciples.... but it has further application to other churches throughout all ages"

"One could say that the Great Commission was given to the Church -- the Body of Christ (redeemed Jews and Gentiles)."

" But as far as Christ's command to baptize believers, that is still valid for each and every church which claims to be Christian."

"To anyone who is part of that same pattern."

And this reply on another thread which prompted me to ask the question here: "Good point Nessuno, I always said we should take authority in the name of Jesus. We are baptizing as a proxy agent to our Lord."
Click to expand...

All of these answers are correct. With what do you not agree?
 
posthuman said:
I'm sorry, I posted something kind of tangential without any address towards your original question. Guilty!

As for me, I find it difficult to believe that from this directive to the 11 that it follows every believer must be an evangelistic missionary. I have heard many people take this approach to the verse and try to compel everyone in the church to to knocking on doors and travelling to Cuba and whatnot - but i think i see a conflict with the description of us as a body, each with our own callings and functions and given talents.

This isn't to say that we should not all, I'm some capacity, participate in the great work of discipleship and proclamation of the good news, and i certainly don't mean 'participate by giving us money' as certain 'visiting evangelists' are wont to do, neither do i mean to discourage material support of our brothers qnd sisters, as we may be purposed in our hearts to give. I mean that we all move within our own circles in our own positions, and elsewhere it is written, to the effect, stay in that in which you were called. So we may very well disciple others and evangelize in ways that don't superficially resemble what the first carriers of this gospel were themselves compelled to do, in keeping with the spirit of what was commanded specifically to specific persons.
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What it means is that every believer should be committed to the fulfilment of the Great Commission.
You yourself highlighted the authoritative nature of that directive - it is a command - and it is a command to all believers.
I fully agree, that you personally, may not be cut out to be an evangelist - even to your neighbour - but that does not excuse you or anyone from not being fully committed to the fulfilment of the Great Commission in any way possible.
Raise money, make friends with those who are gifted as evangelists and missionaries, literally open your home and help them when required. There are plenty of options.

Simply put: the mission of the church is Missions!
 
oldhermit said:
All of these answers are correct. With what do you not agree?
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Your previous reply was: "Your questions have been answered, you just don't seem to like the answer. What is your agenda? It is certainly not to learn who is authorized to baptize."

To answer both of your posts I will point out that you were wrong in your assumptions about me.

Secondly, scriptural support is lacking for a number of these responses. That is fine because I am not challenging anyone here, I only asked for personal opinions.

Third, if you cannot discern any potential issue with some of these responses then I'm not going to make a point of it with you.

You have provided your answer. Thank you for doing so.
 
Nessuno said:
Your previous reply was: "Your questions have been answered, you just don't seem to like the answer. What is your agenda? It is certainly not to learn who is authorized to baptize."

To answer both of your posts I will point out that you were wrong in your assumptions about me.

Secondly, scriptural support is lacking for a number of these responses. That is fine because I am not challenging anyone here, I only asked for personal opinions.

Third, if you cannot discern any potential issue with some of these responses then I'm not going to make a point of it with you.

You have provided your answer. Thank you for doing so.
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Well, that certainly was not what you actually asked.
Now that we know this is what you are actually driving at, perhaps you should give your opinion - and that can be discussed...
 
graceNpeace said:
Well, that certainly was not what you actually asked.
Now that we know this is what you are actually driving at, perhaps you should give your opinion - and that can be discussed...
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The OP:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Who was given this direction/assignment/responsibility?


-The 1st century disciples to whom he actually spoke the words to

-Any individual who claims to be a follower of Christ

-Any religious organization in Christendom or who claim to be Christian

-Only certain religions [If so, please provide a name(s)]

-Other

I'll get to my opinion and actual scriptural support after I see a few more replies minus the insecurities and personal comments.
 
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Nessuno said:
The OP:

"Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,"
Who was given this direction/assignment/responsibility?


-The 1st century disciples to whom he actually spoke the words to

-Any individual who claims to be a follower of Christ

-Any religious organization in Christendom or who claim to be Christian

-Only certain religions [If so, please provide a name(s)]

-Other

I'll get to my opinion and actual scriptural support after I see a few more replies minus the insecurities and personal comments.
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The Great Commission is about much more than just baptising believers, perhaps you are not aware of that, despite the actually wording of the quoted text...
 
graceNpeace said:
The Great Commission is about much more than just baptising believers, perhaps you are not aware of that, despite the actually wording of the quoted text...
Click to expand...

Perhaps if you are patient you will gain some insight and make fewer assumptions about others.
 
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