Is Roman Catholicism Evil?
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I would suggest reading some articles at - Just for Catholics: Answers
Praying to Saints - Praying to the Saints: a dangerous practice
Praying to the saints: unbibical practice
Praying to the saints: alleged proof texts
Immaculate Conception and Assumption - The Immaculate Conception
The Assumption of Mary
Praying to Saints - Praying to the Saints: a dangerous practice
Praying to the saints: unbibical practice
Praying to the saints: alleged proof texts
Immaculate Conception and Assumption - The Immaculate Conception
The Assumption of Mary
Have you ever prayed with an open Bible in front of you? Someone that did not know better might think you were praying to the Bible. Crucifixes and statues are just like photos of loved ones. We look at them to be reminded of the person. So someone praying in front of a crucifix is just being reminded who they love and what a sacrifice he made and who we are praying to.
B
I have studied the Catholic Catechism as part of my studies at university.
Please provide your specific definition of "Maryolatry" in the Catholic Church, and give specific examples of that supposed idolatry with citations from the Catholic Catechism that support your assertion. Remember, if you cannot find the evidence that the Catholic Church teaches in its Catechism the worship of Mary, as distinct from veneration, your assertions are nothing more than spurious allegations. And that would be contrary to Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV).
To save you time, you can find the Catechism of the Catholic Church here: < Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church >
Please provide your specific definition of "Maryolatry" in the Catholic Church, and give specific examples of that supposed idolatry with citations from the Catholic Catechism that support your assertion. Remember, if you cannot find the evidence that the Catholic Church teaches in its Catechism the worship of Mary, as distinct from veneration, your assertions are nothing more than spurious allegations. And that would be contrary to Proverbs 6:16-19 (KJV).
To save you time, you can find the Catechism of the Catholic Church here: < Compendium of the Catechism of the Catholic Church >
B
Garee: Could you please explain how the material below denies that "the grace of Christ paid the full wage of our sin." All of these passages are from the Catholic Catechism, the official teaching of the Catholic Church. And they directly contradict and refute that claim. Would you now like to retract your statement, or would you continue by providing direct and documented evidence (citations), rather than supposition and innuendo, to support your assertion?
The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Jesus Died Crucified
[601] The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of "the righteous one, my Servant" as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin. Citing a confession of faith that he himself had "received", St. Paul professes that "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures." In particular Jesus' redemptive death fulfills Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering Servant. Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God's suffering Servant. After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles.
[604] By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins." God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."
[609] By embracing in his human heart the Father's love for men, Jesus "loved them to the end", for "greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In suffering and death his humanity became the free and perfect instrument of his divine love which desires the salvation of men. Indeed, out of love for his Father and for men, whom the Father wants to save, Jesus freely accepted his Passion and death: "No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord." Hence the sovereign freedom of God's Son as he went out to his death.
[613] Christ's death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins".
[614] This sacrifice of Christ is unique; it completes and surpasses all other sacrifices. First, it is a gift from God the Father himself, for the Father handed his Son over to sinners in order to reconcile us with himself. At the same time it is the offering of the Son of God made man, who in freedom and love offered his life to his Father through the Holy Spirit in reparation for our disobedience.
[615] "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous." By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who "makes himself an offering for sin", when "he bore the sin of many", and who "shall make many to be accounted righteous", for "he shall bear their iniquities". Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.
[616] It is love "to the end" that confers on Christ's sacrifice its value as redemption and reparation, as atonement and satisfaction. He knew and loved us all when he offered his life. Now "the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died." No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all. The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons, and constitutes himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible his redemptive sacrifice for all.
[617] The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ's sacrifice as "the source of eternal salvation" and teaches that "his most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us."
The Catechism of the Catholic Church:
Catechism of the Catholic Church - Jesus Died Crucified
[601] The Scriptures had foretold this divine plan of salvation through the putting to death of "the righteous one, my Servant" as a mystery of universal redemption, that is, as the ransom that would free men from the slavery of sin. Citing a confession of faith that he himself had "received", St. Paul professes that "Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures." In particular Jesus' redemptive death fulfills Isaiah's prophecy of the suffering Servant. Indeed Jesus himself explained the meaning of his life and death in the light of God's suffering Servant. After his Resurrection he gave this interpretation of the Scriptures to the disciples at Emmaus, and then to the apostles.
[604] By giving up his own Son for our sins, God manifests that his plan for us is one of benevolent love, prior to any merit on our part: "In this is love, not that we loved God but that he loved us and sent his Son to be the expiation for our sins." God "shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us."
[609] By embracing in his human heart the Father's love for men, Jesus "loved them to the end", for "greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." In suffering and death his humanity became the free and perfect instrument of his divine love which desires the salvation of men. Indeed, out of love for his Father and for men, whom the Father wants to save, Jesus freely accepted his Passion and death: "No one takes [my life] from me, but I lay it down of my own accord." Hence the sovereign freedom of God's Son as he went out to his death.
[613] Christ's death is both the Paschal sacrifice that accomplishes the definitive redemption of men, through "the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world", and the sacrifice of the New Covenant, which restores man to communion with God by reconciling him to God through the "blood of the covenant, which was poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins".
[614] This sacrifice of Christ is unique; it completes and surpasses all other sacrifices. First, it is a gift from God the Father himself, for the Father handed his Son over to sinners in order to reconcile us with himself. At the same time it is the offering of the Son of God made man, who in freedom and love offered his life to his Father through the Holy Spirit in reparation for our disobedience.
[615] "For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by one man's obedience many will be made righteous." By his obedience unto death, Jesus accomplished the substitution of the suffering Servant, who "makes himself an offering for sin", when "he bore the sin of many", and who "shall make many to be accounted righteous", for "he shall bear their iniquities". Jesus atoned for our faults and made satisfaction for our sins to the Father.
[616] It is love "to the end" that confers on Christ's sacrifice its value as redemption and reparation, as atonement and satisfaction. He knew and loved us all when he offered his life. Now "the love of Christ controls us, because we are convinced that one has died for all; therefore all have died." No man, not even the holiest, was ever able to take on himself the sins of all men and offer himself as a sacrifice for all. The existence in Christ of the divine person of the Son, who at once surpasses and embraces all human persons, and constitutes himself as the Head of all mankind, makes possible his redemptive sacrifice for all.
[617] The Council of Trent emphasizes the unique character of Christ's sacrifice as "the source of eternal salvation" and teaches that "his most holy Passion on the wood of the cross merited justification for us."
The Catholic Church presents Mary in the CCC as sinlessly perfect from birth (which is contrary to Scripture and is mythical). That is Maryolatry, since only Christ was sinlessly perfect from birth :
The Catholic and Orthodox call Mary "the Mother of God" but the Bible calls her the mother of Jesus. BIG DIFFERENCE.
The Catholic Church calls Mary "the cause of salvation" when only God is th cause of salvation. That is Maryolatry.
The Catholic Church teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary, in CONTRADICTION to Scripture.
And let's face it. There are thousands of statues of Mary all over the world which are worshiped by Catholics. That is indeed Maryolatry.
http://www.mother-god.com/virgin-mary-statue.html
This quote is taken from a heterodox website, but even traditional Catholics pray to Mary as seen in the Salve Regina.
The Catholic and Orthodox call Mary "the Mother of God" but the Bible calls her the mother of Jesus. BIG DIFFERENCE.
The Catholic Church calls Mary "the cause of salvation" when only God is th cause of salvation. That is Maryolatry.
The Catholic Church teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary, in CONTRADICTION to Scripture.
And let's face it. There are thousands of statues of Mary all over the world which are worshiped by Catholics. That is indeed Maryolatry.
http://www.mother-god.com/virgin-mary-statue.html
This quote is taken from a heterodox website, but even traditional Catholics pray to Mary as seen in the Salve Regina.
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Hi Thanks for the reply..
The document by which we can believe God not seen is the Bible, as His interpretation to us a witness who was there working in the affairs of men.Not evidence coming from the word of God . He does not honor the witness of men according to their documents.
Its evidence of their own private interpretation likefingerprints every man has an opinion or heresy that differs from one another .
1Corinthians 11:19For there must be also heresies among you, thatthey which are approved may be made manifest among you
The unforgivableones(damnable) deny the fullness of theLord’s grace and have it is respect to their own self as self -righteousness andnot after the imputed righteous nes of Christ.
The Catholic offers a unknown amount of Grace comingfrom Christ or a unknown remnant. Not the fullness of His labor of love, or the complete work of His faith .
In that way they can keep the oral traditions of theirfathers that Lord it over the pew Catholic faith calling it Catholic faith, having it as commandments of men and then add many ways to make up that whichthey believe is lacking. To include offering money to reduce the suffering theysay they must do to make o up for Christ’s weakness.
It is their denying the fullness of the grace of God by which they deny Christ bought them in whole..They must teach our suffering adds to His and when they leave this realm under thesun they must trust in the doctrines of purgatory, a doctrine of men . Foranother unknown amount of time or severity of punish.
Can't build a faith that pleases God on unknown remnants.
Scripture informs us there must be heresies as personal opinions of what men believethe Holy Spirit is teaches them. This informs us they act as false prophets.false apostles. They need to hear the gospel and believe God as the things of God, not men as the things thereof.
2Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as thereshall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swiftdestruction
The document by which we can believe God not seen is the Bible, as His interpretation to us a witness who was there working in the affairs of men.Not evidence coming from the word of God . He does not honor the witness of men according to their documents.
Its evidence of their own private interpretation likefingerprints every man has an opinion or heresy that differs from one another .
1Corinthians 11:19For there must be also heresies among you, thatthey which are approved may be made manifest among you
The unforgivableones(damnable) deny the fullness of theLord’s grace and have it is respect to their own self as self -righteousness andnot after the imputed righteous nes of Christ.
The Catholic offers a unknown amount of Grace comingfrom Christ or a unknown remnant. Not the fullness of His labor of love, or the complete work of His faith .
In that way they can keep the oral traditions of theirfathers that Lord it over the pew Catholic faith calling it Catholic faith, having it as commandments of men and then add many ways to make up that whichthey believe is lacking. To include offering money to reduce the suffering theysay they must do to make o up for Christ’s weakness.
It is their denying the fullness of the grace of God by which they deny Christ bought them in whole..They must teach our suffering adds to His and when they leave this realm under thesun they must trust in the doctrines of purgatory, a doctrine of men . Foranother unknown amount of time or severity of punish.
Can't build a faith that pleases God on unknown remnants.
Scripture informs us there must be heresies as personal opinions of what men believethe Holy Spirit is teaches them. This informs us they act as false prophets.false apostles. They need to hear the gospel and believe God as the things of God, not men as the things thereof.
2Peter 2:1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as thereshall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies,even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swiftdestruction
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B
Nehemiah6
"The Catholic and Orthodox call Mary "the Mother of God" but the Bible calls her the mother of Jesus. BIG DIFFERENCE."
This brings to mind a key theological question for you: Was Mary the earthly mother of Jesus? According to the Gospels -- Luke 1:28-30, Luke 2:1-20, Matthew 1:18-25 -- the answer would be a resounding "Yes." Another theological question: Is Jesus part of the triune God? Again, a Christian must answer again with another "Yes." Therefore, as the mother of Jesus, Mary is necessarily the earthly mother of God. The difference is not so big after all.
"The Catholic Church presents Mary in the CCC as sinlessly perfect from birth (which is contrary to Scripture and is mythical). That is Maryolatry, since only Christ was sinlessly perfect from birth."
The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace." Luke 1:28-30 (KJV): "(28) And the angel came in unto her [Mary], and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured [full of grace], the Lord is with thee: blessed [blest] art thou among women. … (30) And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God." How could Mary be "full of grace" prior to Christ's death on the cross? To become the mother of the Saviour, Mary was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role. According to the Catholic Catechism, The "splendour of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son." The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him in love." All people were born in sin. But only one person -- in His infinite wisdom, His infinite love, and His infinite power -- could make the vessel chosen to give birth to His only Son free from sin from conception, and therefore worthy to bear that Son. Guess who that might be. Do you dare to know the mind of God? Do you dare to say that God's actions are contrary to Scripture?
"The Catholic Church teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary, in CONTRADICTION to Scripture."
Not true. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus was conceived to Mary without knowing man by the power of the Holy Spirit. And when Jesus was born, she still had not known man. What happened after that between Mary and Joseph is mere salacious speculation and does not form any part of the Catholic Catechism.
At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible." The Gospel accounts understand the virginal conception of Jesus as a divine work that surpasses all human understanding and possibility: "That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit", said the angel to Joseph about Mary, his fiancee. The Catholic Church sees here the fulfilment of the divine promise given through the prophet Isaiah: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son."
"The Catholic Church calls Mary "the cause of salvation" when only God is the cause of salvation. That is Maryolatry."
Again, not true. It was St. Irenaeus who made that statement. However, that definition of "cause" is "a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition." In other words, the first step. And Mary was the first step in the process that led to the crucifixion and the means for our salvation. God is not the "cause" of salvation, He is the giver of salvation. And the means of that salvation, according to the Catholic Church, is through the belief in the trine God, and the recognition and embracing that Jesus Christ is the Redeemer who died for our sins. In fact that is the same belief system throughout all of Christendom.
"And let's face it. There are thousands of statues of Mary all over the world which are worshiped by Catholics. That is indeed Maryolatry."
Idolatry is worshipping a statue and giving it the same power and authority as God. In your post on images and statues, you highlighted the reason why some Protestants think Catholics worship Mary and the saints. People still make the ridiculous claim that because Catholics have statues in their churches, they are violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Exodus 20:4–5). They maintain that bowing down in worship (idolatry) and bowing down in respect are the same. They think worship, veneration, and prayer are the same thing.
They argue that the Bible bans statues and images in places of worship under the assertion that their presence necessarily means people are worshipping the images. An idol is anything that replaces the one, true God. The most prevalent form of idolatry in Bible times was the worship of images that were thought to embody the various pagan deities. From the beginning, God’s covenant with Israel was based on exclusive worship of Him alone (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 5:7). The history of Israel is a sad chronicle of idol worship, punishment, restoration and forgiveness, followed by a return to idolatry. The books of 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, and 1 & 2 Chronicles reveal this destructive pattern. In reality, idols are impotent blocks of stone or wood, and their power exists only in the minds of the worshipers. Yet if people were to search the scriptures (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues.
Bowing down before a statue is sign of respect in recognition of the merit and the exemplary life led by the person represented by the statue. It is not worship any more than the Japanese custom of bowing respectfully in greeting. Similarly, a person can kneel before a king or queen without worshipping them as a god. I have seen Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, and a host of other Protestant denominations on their knees and bowing their heads before the Bible when they pray. Do you similarly assert that these Protestants are worshipping the Bible as an idol rather than praying to the God it represents?
As well, some Protestants contend that if Catholics are praying to Mary, they must be "worshipping" Mary. The Catholic Church specifically teaches that God alone is worthy of worship. However, there are those among us who, because of their heroic virtue, are deserving of acclaim and honour. There are three degrees of religious respect in Roman Catholic theology. They go by specific names: Latria, Dulia, and Hyperdulia. [Dr. E.A. Livingstone (ed), Oxford Concise Dictionary of the Christian Church, (2013, Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK), pp. 174, 274, & 328]. Thomas Aquinas [Summa Theologiae, Part II-II (Secunda Secundae Partis), 103:3 -- at the Guttenberg Library] bases the distinction on the difference between God's supreme dominion and that which one man may exercise over another. Philosopher Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, a Protestant, recognizes the "discrimen infinitum atque immensum between the honour which is due to God and that which is shown to the saints, the one being called by theologians, after Augustine's example, latria, the other dulia." And he further declares that this difference should "not only be inculcated in the minds of hearers and learners, but should also be manifested as far as possible by outward signs" [Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, A System of Theology, (1850, Burns & Lambert, London, UK), in St. Mary's College Library, p. 184].
Latria is worship. It is the worship that is due only to God. This worship consists of offering God our lives, our souls, our minds and our bodies as a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1-2).
Dulia is not worship. It is honour or veneration. We honour anyone who is eminent and accomplished. We honour them for their brains, their discipline, their wit, their achievement. We honour our parents and grandparents because we owe them that. We honour our loved ones. Part of this honour is that we ask them for things. We come to them with our needs. We look up to them. We respect them. They are our role models and mentors. They are awesome to us. Dulia is what is given to the saints -- they are given the honour that is due to them. As part of this, people ask them for things, primarily for their intervention on our behalf before God. It can be compared to a defendant asking a lawyer to speak on his or her behalf before the court and the judge.
Hyperdulia (to put it simply, lots and lots of dulia) is the honour given to Mary because she is unique among all God’s creation. She is the only created being who was honoured by God so greatly that his Son took his flesh from her. She has a totally unique place of honour in Heaven and therefore also among all of God’s people on earth. The honour given her, therefore, and the dulia she is given is higher than any other being. But it is not latria. The Catholic Church is very clear about that: Catholics do not worship Mary. Repeat after me: "Catholics do not worship Mary." They pray to her to ask her to intercede before God on their behalf. The evidence of this is that they do not make sacrifice to her. You will not find any Catholic priest offering a mass to Mary -- the sacrifice of the Catholic mass is offered only to God, the Almighty Father. A Catholic priest will, however, offer a mass to God in Mary's honour. Similarly, Catholics will dedicate a mass to God as a prayer on behalf of the souls of those who have passed away. This should be understood clearly: the hyperdulia and dulia given by Catholics to Mary and the saints is ultimately honour given to God -- not for who they are, but for who God made them to be. This directing prayers of intercession to Mary and the saints, of course, does not preclude anyone from praying directly to God. The evidence of this is the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13), said by Catholics and Protestants alike. [Catholic Encyclopedia: https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=4062]
Pope John Paul II used the title "Mediatrix" several times, and in his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, he wrote: "The maternal role of Mary towards people in no way obscures or diminishes the unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power: it is mediation in Christ. ... Mary's mediation is intimately linked with her motherhood. ... Through this fullness of grace and supernatural life she was especially predisposed to cooperation with Christ, the one Mediator of human salvation. And such cooperation is precisely this mediation subordinated to the mediation of Christ." This is not blasphemy since the status of Mary as intervenor is clearly subordinate to both Jesus and the Father -- not a joint- or co- anything. [Papal Encyclical of 25 March 1987: Redemptoris Mater (25 March 1987) | John Paul II].
You might ask: "Can you verify that NO Catholics pray to the statues of saints and the Vatican version of Mary?" No, of course not. I am certain there are some misguided souls among the estimated 1.2 billion Catholics around the world who believe they are praying to the statues. But Catholics do pray to Mary and the saints in the context I outlined above. And the statue serves as a reminder of the person whose life can serve as a role model -- in much the same way people often carry photos of their deceased parents or grandparents in their wallets to remind them of the love they feel for them.
You also pointed to the Salve Regina. Here is the English translation:
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!
Our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve,
to thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this valley, of tears.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us;
and after this our exile show unto us the
blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Please note: "Pray for us, O holy Mother of God. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ" and "gracious advocate." That simply confirms that Catholics are not praying to Mary as a deity, but instead, they are seeking her intercession with God on their behalf.
"The Catholic and Orthodox call Mary "the Mother of God" but the Bible calls her the mother of Jesus. BIG DIFFERENCE."
This brings to mind a key theological question for you: Was Mary the earthly mother of Jesus? According to the Gospels -- Luke 1:28-30, Luke 2:1-20, Matthew 1:18-25 -- the answer would be a resounding "Yes." Another theological question: Is Jesus part of the triune God? Again, a Christian must answer again with another "Yes." Therefore, as the mother of Jesus, Mary is necessarily the earthly mother of God. The difference is not so big after all.
"The Catholic Church presents Mary in the CCC as sinlessly perfect from birth (which is contrary to Scripture and is mythical). That is Maryolatry, since only Christ was sinlessly perfect from birth."
The angel Gabriel at the moment of the annunciation salutes her as "full of grace." Luke 1:28-30 (KJV): "(28) And the angel came in unto her [Mary], and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured [full of grace], the Lord is with thee: blessed [blest] art thou among women. … (30) And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God." How could Mary be "full of grace" prior to Christ's death on the cross? To become the mother of the Saviour, Mary was enriched by God with gifts appropriate to such a role. According to the Catholic Catechism, The "splendour of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son." The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before Him in love." All people were born in sin. But only one person -- in His infinite wisdom, His infinite love, and His infinite power -- could make the vessel chosen to give birth to His only Son free from sin from conception, and therefore worthy to bear that Son. Guess who that might be. Do you dare to know the mind of God? Do you dare to say that God's actions are contrary to Scripture?
"The Catholic Church teaches the perpetual virginity of Mary, in CONTRADICTION to Scripture."
Not true. The Catholic Church teaches that Jesus was conceived to Mary without knowing man by the power of the Holy Spirit. And when Jesus was born, she still had not known man. What happened after that between Mary and Joseph is mere salacious speculation and does not form any part of the Catholic Catechism.
At the announcement that she would give birth to "the Son of the Most High" without knowing man, by the power of the Holy Spirit, Mary responded with the obedience of faith, certain that "with God nothing will be impossible." The Gospel accounts understand the virginal conception of Jesus as a divine work that surpasses all human understanding and possibility: "That which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit", said the angel to Joseph about Mary, his fiancee. The Catholic Church sees here the fulfilment of the divine promise given through the prophet Isaiah: "Behold, a virgin shall conceive and bear a son."
"The Catholic Church calls Mary "the cause of salvation" when only God is the cause of salvation. That is Maryolatry."
Again, not true. It was St. Irenaeus who made that statement. However, that definition of "cause" is "a person or thing that gives rise to an action, phenomenon, or condition." In other words, the first step. And Mary was the first step in the process that led to the crucifixion and the means for our salvation. God is not the "cause" of salvation, He is the giver of salvation. And the means of that salvation, according to the Catholic Church, is through the belief in the trine God, and the recognition and embracing that Jesus Christ is the Redeemer who died for our sins. In fact that is the same belief system throughout all of Christendom.
"And let's face it. There are thousands of statues of Mary all over the world which are worshiped by Catholics. That is indeed Maryolatry."
Idolatry is worshipping a statue and giving it the same power and authority as God. In your post on images and statues, you highlighted the reason why some Protestants think Catholics worship Mary and the saints. People still make the ridiculous claim that because Catholics have statues in their churches, they are violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make for yourself a graven image or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Exodus 20:4–5). They maintain that bowing down in worship (idolatry) and bowing down in respect are the same. They think worship, veneration, and prayer are the same thing.
They argue that the Bible bans statues and images in places of worship under the assertion that their presence necessarily means people are worshipping the images. An idol is anything that replaces the one, true God. The most prevalent form of idolatry in Bible times was the worship of images that were thought to embody the various pagan deities. From the beginning, God’s covenant with Israel was based on exclusive worship of Him alone (Exodus 20:3; Deuteronomy 5:7). The history of Israel is a sad chronicle of idol worship, punishment, restoration and forgiveness, followed by a return to idolatry. The books of 1 & 2 Samuel, 1 & 2 Kings, and 1 & 2 Chronicles reveal this destructive pattern. In reality, idols are impotent blocks of stone or wood, and their power exists only in the minds of the worshipers. Yet if people were to search the scriptures (John 5:39), they would find the opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues.
Bowing down before a statue is sign of respect in recognition of the merit and the exemplary life led by the person represented by the statue. It is not worship any more than the Japanese custom of bowing respectfully in greeting. Similarly, a person can kneel before a king or queen without worshipping them as a god. I have seen Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses, and a host of other Protestant denominations on their knees and bowing their heads before the Bible when they pray. Do you similarly assert that these Protestants are worshipping the Bible as an idol rather than praying to the God it represents?
As well, some Protestants contend that if Catholics are praying to Mary, they must be "worshipping" Mary. The Catholic Church specifically teaches that God alone is worthy of worship. However, there are those among us who, because of their heroic virtue, are deserving of acclaim and honour. There are three degrees of religious respect in Roman Catholic theology. They go by specific names: Latria, Dulia, and Hyperdulia. [Dr. E.A. Livingstone (ed), Oxford Concise Dictionary of the Christian Church, (2013, Oxford University Press, Oxford, UK), pp. 174, 274, & 328]. Thomas Aquinas [Summa Theologiae, Part II-II (Secunda Secundae Partis), 103:3 -- at the Guttenberg Library] bases the distinction on the difference between God's supreme dominion and that which one man may exercise over another. Philosopher Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, a Protestant, recognizes the "discrimen infinitum atque immensum between the honour which is due to God and that which is shown to the saints, the one being called by theologians, after Augustine's example, latria, the other dulia." And he further declares that this difference should "not only be inculcated in the minds of hearers and learners, but should also be manifested as far as possible by outward signs" [Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz, A System of Theology, (1850, Burns & Lambert, London, UK), in St. Mary's College Library, p. 184].
Latria is worship. It is the worship that is due only to God. This worship consists of offering God our lives, our souls, our minds and our bodies as a living sacrifice (Romans 12:1-2).
Dulia is not worship. It is honour or veneration. We honour anyone who is eminent and accomplished. We honour them for their brains, their discipline, their wit, their achievement. We honour our parents and grandparents because we owe them that. We honour our loved ones. Part of this honour is that we ask them for things. We come to them with our needs. We look up to them. We respect them. They are our role models and mentors. They are awesome to us. Dulia is what is given to the saints -- they are given the honour that is due to them. As part of this, people ask them for things, primarily for their intervention on our behalf before God. It can be compared to a defendant asking a lawyer to speak on his or her behalf before the court and the judge.
Hyperdulia (to put it simply, lots and lots of dulia) is the honour given to Mary because she is unique among all God’s creation. She is the only created being who was honoured by God so greatly that his Son took his flesh from her. She has a totally unique place of honour in Heaven and therefore also among all of God’s people on earth. The honour given her, therefore, and the dulia she is given is higher than any other being. But it is not latria. The Catholic Church is very clear about that: Catholics do not worship Mary. Repeat after me: "Catholics do not worship Mary." They pray to her to ask her to intercede before God on their behalf. The evidence of this is that they do not make sacrifice to her. You will not find any Catholic priest offering a mass to Mary -- the sacrifice of the Catholic mass is offered only to God, the Almighty Father. A Catholic priest will, however, offer a mass to God in Mary's honour. Similarly, Catholics will dedicate a mass to God as a prayer on behalf of the souls of those who have passed away. This should be understood clearly: the hyperdulia and dulia given by Catholics to Mary and the saints is ultimately honour given to God -- not for who they are, but for who God made them to be. This directing prayers of intercession to Mary and the saints, of course, does not preclude anyone from praying directly to God. The evidence of this is the Lord's Prayer (Matthew 6:9-13), said by Catholics and Protestants alike. [Catholic Encyclopedia: https://www.catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=4062]
Pope John Paul II used the title "Mediatrix" several times, and in his encyclical Redemptoris Mater, he wrote: "The maternal role of Mary towards people in no way obscures or diminishes the unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power: it is mediation in Christ. ... Mary's mediation is intimately linked with her motherhood. ... Through this fullness of grace and supernatural life she was especially predisposed to cooperation with Christ, the one Mediator of human salvation. And such cooperation is precisely this mediation subordinated to the mediation of Christ." This is not blasphemy since the status of Mary as intervenor is clearly subordinate to both Jesus and the Father -- not a joint- or co- anything. [Papal Encyclical of 25 March 1987: Redemptoris Mater (25 March 1987) | John Paul II].
You might ask: "Can you verify that NO Catholics pray to the statues of saints and the Vatican version of Mary?" No, of course not. I am certain there are some misguided souls among the estimated 1.2 billion Catholics around the world who believe they are praying to the statues. But Catholics do pray to Mary and the saints in the context I outlined above. And the statue serves as a reminder of the person whose life can serve as a role model -- in much the same way people often carry photos of their deceased parents or grandparents in their wallets to remind them of the love they feel for them.
You also pointed to the Salve Regina. Here is the English translation:
Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy!
Our life, our sweetness, and our hope!
To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve,
to thee do we send up our sighs,
mourning and weeping in this valley, of tears.
Turn, then, most gracious advocate,
thine eyes of mercy toward us;
and after this our exile show unto us the
blessed fruit of thy womb Jesus;
O clement, O loving, O sweet virgin Mary.
V. Pray for us, O holy Mother of God
R. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ.
Please note: "Pray for us, O holy Mother of God. That we may be made worthy of the promises of Christ" and "gracious advocate." That simply confirms that Catholics are not praying to Mary as a deity, but instead, they are seeking her intercession with God on their behalf.
B
Garee, You dismiss the citations from the Catholic Catechism, yet you repeat your same assertions that what the Catholic Church is teaching is counter to the Bible. I agree with you: "The document by which we can believe God not seen is the Bible, as His interpretation to us a witness who was there working in the affairs of men." But you failed answer my question. I'll repeat it once again: Specifically and precisely, how do any of the passages I provided for you fail to follow Scripture? You made the specific claim that the Catholic Church denies that "the grace of Christ paid the full wage of our sin." Citing its own teachings, I proved you were incorrect. Unless you can address those specific teachings directly from the Catechism, and not from your own interpretations, perceptions and assertions, your replies will continue to be circular reasoning, which is a logical fallacy.
If what happened between Joseph and Mary following the birth of Jesus Christ is salacious speculation, the RCC excels in it: the RCC teaches that Mary remained ever a virgin.
As explained in the Catholic Answers tract Brethren of the Lord, neither the Gospel accounts nor the early Christians attest to the notion that Mary bore other children besides Jesus. The faithful knew, through the witness of Scripture and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.
An important historical document which supports the teaching of Mary’s perpetual virginity is the Protoevangelium of James, which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary’s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many.
According to the world-renowned patristics scholar, Johannes Quasten: "The principal aim of the whole writing [Protoevangelium of James] is to prove the perpetual and inviolate virginity of Mary before, in, and after the birth of Christ" (Patrology, 1:120–1).
To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.
However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated "virgin of the Lord," to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).
According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow. Keeping this in mind, it is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.
The perpetual virginity of Mary has always been reconciled with the biblical references to Christ’s brethren through a proper understanding of the meaning of the term "brethren." The understanding that the brethren of the Lord were Jesus’ stepbrothers (children of Joseph) rather than half-brothers (children of Mary) was the most common one until the time of Jerome (fourth century). It was Jerome who introduced the possibility that Christ’s brethren were actually his cousins, since in Jewish idiom cousins were also referred to as "brethren." The Catholic Church allows the faithful to hold either view, since both are compatible with the reality of Mary’s perpetual virginity.
Today most Protestants are unaware of these early beliefs regarding Mary’s virginity and the proper interpretation of "the brethren of the Lord." And yet, the Protestant Reformers themselves—Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli—honored the perpetual virginity of Mary and recognized it as the teaching of the Bible, as have other, more modern Protestants.
The Protoevangelium of James
"And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there" (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).
"And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’" (ibid., 8–9).
"And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’" (ibid., 15).
"And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’" (ibid.).
Origen
"The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity" (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
Hilary of Poitiers
"If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).
Athanasius
"Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary" (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
"We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit" (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).
"And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled" (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).
Jerome
"[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man" (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).
"We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock" (ibid., 21).
Didymus the Blind
"It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin" (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).
Ambrose of Milan
"Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son" (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).
Pope Siricius I
"You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king" (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).
Augustine
"In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave" (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
"It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?" (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
"Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband" (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
Leporius
"We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary" (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).
Cyril of Alexandria
"[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing" (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
Pope Leo I
"His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained" (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]). https://www.catholic.com/tract/mary-ever-virgin
As explained in the Catholic Answers tract Brethren of the Lord, neither the Gospel accounts nor the early Christians attest to the notion that Mary bore other children besides Jesus. The faithful knew, through the witness of Scripture and Tradition, that Jesus was Mary’s only child and that she remained a lifelong virgin.
An important historical document which supports the teaching of Mary’s perpetual virginity is the Protoevangelium of James, which was written probably less than sixty years after the conclusion of Mary’s earthly life (around A.D. 120), when memories of her life were still vivid in the minds of many.
According to the world-renowned patristics scholar, Johannes Quasten: "The principal aim of the whole writing [Protoevangelium of James] is to prove the perpetual and inviolate virginity of Mary before, in, and after the birth of Christ" (Patrology, 1:120–1).
To begin with, the Protoevangelium records that when Mary’s birth was prophesied, her mother, St. Anne, vowed that she would devote the child to the service of the Lord, as Samuel had been by his mother (1 Sam. 1:11). Mary would thus serve the Lord at the Temple, as women had for centuries (1 Sam. 2:22), and as Anna the prophetess did at the time of Jesus’ birth (Luke 2:36–37). A life of continual, devoted service to the Lord at the Temple meant that Mary would not be able to live the ordinary life of a child-rearing mother. Rather, she was vowed to a life of perpetual virginity.
However, due to considerations of ceremonial cleanliness, it was eventually necessary for Mary, a consecrated "virgin of the Lord," to have a guardian or protector who would respect her vow of virginity. Thus, according to the Protoevangelium, Joseph, an elderly widower who already had children, was chosen to be her spouse. (This would also explain why Joseph was apparently dead by the time of Jesus’ adult ministry, since he does not appear during it in the gospels, and since Mary is entrusted to John, rather than to her husband Joseph, at the crucifixion).
According to the Protoevangelium, Joseph was required to regard Mary’s vow of virginity with the utmost respect. The gravity of his responsibility as the guardian of a virgin was indicated by the fact that, when she was discovered to be with child, he had to answer to the Temple authorities, who thought him guilty of defiling a virgin of the Lord. Mary was also accused of having forsaken the Lord by breaking her vow. Keeping this in mind, it is an incredible insult to the Blessed Virgin to say that she broke her vow by bearing children other than her Lord and God, who was conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit.
The perpetual virginity of Mary has always been reconciled with the biblical references to Christ’s brethren through a proper understanding of the meaning of the term "brethren." The understanding that the brethren of the Lord were Jesus’ stepbrothers (children of Joseph) rather than half-brothers (children of Mary) was the most common one until the time of Jerome (fourth century). It was Jerome who introduced the possibility that Christ’s brethren were actually his cousins, since in Jewish idiom cousins were also referred to as "brethren." The Catholic Church allows the faithful to hold either view, since both are compatible with the reality of Mary’s perpetual virginity.
Today most Protestants are unaware of these early beliefs regarding Mary’s virginity and the proper interpretation of "the brethren of the Lord." And yet, the Protestant Reformers themselves—Martin Luther, John Calvin, and Ulrich Zwingli—honored the perpetual virginity of Mary and recognized it as the teaching of the Bible, as have other, more modern Protestants.
The Protoevangelium of James
"And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there" (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).
"And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’" (ibid., 8–9).
"And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’" (ibid., 15).
"And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’" (ibid.).
Origen
"The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity" (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).
Hilary of Poitiers
"If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).
Athanasius
"Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary" (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).
Epiphanius of Salamis
"We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit" (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).
"And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled" (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).
Jerome
"[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man" (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).
"We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock" (ibid., 21).
Didymus the Blind
"It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin" (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).
Ambrose of Milan
"Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son" (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).
Pope Siricius I
"You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king" (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).
Augustine
"In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave" (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).
"It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?" (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).
"Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband" (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).
Leporius
"We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary" (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).
Cyril of Alexandria
"[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing" (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).
Pope Leo I
"His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained" (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]). https://www.catholic.com/tract/mary-ever-virgin
B
So tell me, Deade, what happens to our souls, if we have followed God's word, once our bodies die?
Since Mary was in a state of grace throughout her life because of her unique stature as the mother of Jesus, do you suppose her soul might have found its way to a place with God? And that is why Catholics pray, not to an inanimate object such as a cross or a statue or a dead body, but to the soul of the person who has been deemed worthy of a place in His presence. And they ask that person to intercede on their behalf before God.
Duh!! Right backatcha.
