Not By Works

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
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Yes! Actually one of the disciples found himself taken immediately to where a man was in a carriage reading the word and he explained what he was reading to him...it sounded to me like he was just sort of time-travelled there!
Actually that was more of location to location transport in a matter of seconds and way before Star trek.

i agree with joe -- that was teleportation not time-travel



. . i'm not 'angry' about this disagreement ;)
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,843
13,558
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i've heard the opinion that while Moses was on Sinai with the presence of the LORD he was 'outside of time' in a way to be with Him -- so that when he wrote Genesis it is possible he witnessed it firsthand, 'in the spirit'
just as John, when writing Revelation.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
only in reverse gear. it is very easy to travel forward in time, so much so that you may not even notice yourself doing it

in fact you can 'coast' :)
Yes it's called the secret code "TV" don't tell anyone,don't want anyone learning such "secrets"...
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
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go back a few hundred pages and you will see about the same convo
Yes I have seen this too, however I have just been admonished that it is okay to speak on the topic of anger page after page on a thread dedicated to the subject of "Not By Works" This type of logic kind of sends my head twisting and turning, but sure nuff said.

Lets say I want to join a Rock n' Roll Band but the Holy Spirit led me to join the Church Choir instead. However because that change of heart to join the Church Choir was brought on by the work of the Holy Spirit I guess this would also be on topic because it was "Not By Works" Seems like faulty reasoning from my view point but I'm willing to look at things from a different point of view. Plus I'm not the OP.

Thanks E-g, yet in a little while you will feel much better I pray.....
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
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Yes I thought it was.

What confuses me is why you think these verses to you mean that you have committed murder in your heart when you get angry.

What is interesting is if you look at the following headings for the verses from the NKJV, NIV and NLT

Murder Begins in the Heart - NKJV

Murder - NIV

Teaching about Anger - NLT

I do not think Jesus is saying here that being angry is the same as committing murder.

From Mathew 5:17 Jesus is teaching about the law and how the Pharisees distorted the true intent and added to it.

Matthew 5:21


21 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder, and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.’

The expression refers to the traditional interpretation of the teachers of religious law and Pharisees. Though their traditions prohibited murder, they did not prohibit hatred. The surpassing righteousness of Jesus demands reconciliation (5:23-24); merely refraining from committing murder is not sufficient (NKJV study notes)

Matthew 5:22
22 But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, ‘Raca!’ shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, ‘You fool!’ shall be in danger of hell fire.


5:22 The scribes and Pharisees said that a person who referred to another as Raca, meaning “empty head,” was in danger of being sued for libel before the council (or the Sanhedrin). On the other hand, Jesus said that whoever calls another a fool will have to answer to God. That is not to say that calling someone a fool will condemn a believer to eternal punishment in hell. Rather Jesus was saying that to utter such words is to place oneself in a worse condition at the time of judgment (see 1 Cor. 3:12–15). NKJV study notes.

So as I said, I think Jesus is not saying being angry in your heart is committing murder.
He is correcting what the Pharisees were saying and teaching the true intent of the law.

Furthermore the reason I think this is because

Matthew 5:43-44
Love Your Enemies
43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,

The Pharisees taught "Love your neighbour and hate your enemy"
Jesus said "Love your enemy as well"

Exodus 23:4


4 “If you meet your enemy's ox or his donkey going astray, you shall surely bring it back to him again.

Leviticus 19:18
18 You shall not take vengeance, nor bear any grudge against the children of your people, but you shall love your neighbor as yourself: I am the Lord.

19:18 love your neighbor as yourself. See v. 34; quoted by Christ (Mt 22:39; Mk 12:31; Lk 10:27), Paul (Ro 13:9; Gal 5:14) and James (2:8). The stricter Pharisees (school of Shammai) added to this command what they thought it implied: “Hate your enemy” (Mt 5:43; see note there). Jesus’ reaction, “Love your enemies,” was in line with true OT teaching (see vv. 17, 34) and was more in agreement with the middle-of-the-road Pharisees. Rabbi Nahmanides (thirteenth century) caught their sentiments: “One should place no limitations upon the love for the neighbor, but instead a person should love to do an abundance of good for his fellow being as he does for himself.” “Neighbor” does not merely mean one who lives nearby, but anyone with whom one comes in contact (see Lk 10:25–36 and notes). NIV Study notes.

Sorry for the long post.

Jesus a little more to go.

Matthew 5:27-28
Adultery in the Heart
27 “You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

Notice lust in the heart is equal to adultery.
You've thought is therefore have done it.

He did not say that about anger.

Finally Paul says

Ephesians 4:26-27
26 And “don’t sin by letting anger control you.” Don’t let the sun go down while you are still angry,27 for anger gives a foothold to the devil.

He does not say "Anger is akin to murder"

He says it gives satan a foothold.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,534
121
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Amen Cee......good to see another sword of truth with all the working for sinless perfectionists in here who flat deny Jesus by their self help guru psuedo salvation....
So now we have come full circle. Since we do not believe 100% in what you believe, then we other Christians actually deny Christ. You are a true saint, and you have just condemned 65% of all other Christians (who have faith in Jesus Christ and trust in his mercy) to hell. Good going, and may the Lord be with you too.
 
S

Susanna

Guest
Guys, I'm coming back to yall from the future, from the post #1,000,000 in this thread, but hence I'm pushing my 100th b'day, I'm too dang tired to write anything about the year of 2076 "Not by Works" thread...uh...
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
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I've learned to discern whether or not to consider a person a real believer by how they act, not by the correctness of their doctrine. And I don't mean how they act in isolated circumstances and under various provocations, but what characterizes them overall. Some people are very consistent in their abuse of others in this forum and that tells me to not consider them born again. There are others who I consider to not have accurate doctrine but by the way they treat others I feel safe in considering them a true fellow believer.

The interesting thing is that is the one thing that fake believers can't fake. In the end, they can't be good people. They are the opposite of believers. Generally speaking, believers are characterized as being good natured but can get caught up in the moment and act badly, while unbelievers act badly but occasionally get caught up in the moment and act good. And genuine believers are good at receiving rebuke and correction. Unbelievers, hardly ever. This is how I discern who to trust as a brother and who not to.

Knowing Christ is not about having doctrinal excellence and accuracy. We show we know Christ, and he knows us, by how we treat people.......especially our enemies, those who oppose us.

Have you considered, that you are the one that is not doctrinally correct?


Did you ever answer my question, "How do you define Born Again?"
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
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Thank you I'll have one whopper,and a side of fries,this is burger king right?
Okay then, I have to tell the joke. It's your fault.

A retired couple is driving through Florida in their brand new Winnebago. The wife sees a sign and says: oh gosh, that's so sweet! The name of this town is Kiss - a - me!

The husband rolls his eyes and says: No...it's pronounced Kiss - em - ee.

The wife disagrees and they argue about the pronunciation the whole way up the road.

At lunchtime, they pull into a drive thru.

The husband says to the girl in the window: Maybe you could help my wife and I. We've been having an argument. How do you pronounce the name of this place?

She leans out the window and says, very loudly and distinctly: BUR - GER - KING.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Yes I have seen this too, however I have just been admonished that it is okay to speak on the topic of anger page after page on a thread dedicated to the subject of "Not By Works" This type of logic kind of sends my head twisting and turning, but sure nuff said.

Lets say I want to join a Rock n' Roll Band but the Holy Spirit led me to join the Church Choir instead. However because that change of heart to join the Church Choir was brought on by the work of the Holy Spirit I guess this would also be on topic because it was "Not By Works" Seems like faulty reasoning from my view point but I'm willing to look at things from a different point of view. Plus I'm not the OP.

Thanks E-g, yet in a little while you will feel much better I pray.....
Hey go join the Rock & Band.
Then you and Mick Jagger (who recently announced he is going back on tour) can strut stuff on stage.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Hey go join the Rock & Band.
Then you and Mick Jagger (who recently announced he is going back on tour) can strut stuff on stage.
I thinks me Savior would disapprove..........:)
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
Minus the ONIONS, that looks wonderful. Onions belong in the ground where GOD Put Them.
I like pickled onions and pickled eggs.
They belong in my tummy.

Ps don't tell anyone.

But when the Jar is finished I drink the vinegar.
I also put vinegar on my whelks, cockles and winkles.

Yum yum
 
Nov 12, 2015
9,112
823
113
Yes I have seen this too, however I have just been admonished that it is okay to speak on the topic of anger page after page on a thread dedicated to the subject of "Not By Works" This type of logic kind of sends my head twisting and turning, but sure nuff said.

Lets say I want to join a Rock n' Roll Band but the Holy Spirit led me to join the Church Choir instead. However because that change of heart to join the Church Choir was brought on by the work of the Holy Spirit I guess this would also be on topic because it was "Not By Works" Seems like faulty reasoning from my view point but I'm willing to look at things from a different point of view. Plus I'm not the OP.

Thanks E-g, yet in a little while you will feel much better I pray.....
Whoa man! :)
I did not admonish you!
I was trying to explain the connection, that's all! :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,173
29,475
113
i've heard the opinion that while Moses was on Sinai with the presence of the LORD he was 'outside of time' in a way to be with Him -- so that when he wrote Genesis it is possible he witnessed it firsthand, 'in the spirit'
just as John, when writing Revelation.
Jesus called it a "vision." :)
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,173
29,475
113
Guys, I'm coming back to yall from the future, from the post #1,000,000 in this thread, but hence I'm pushing my 100th b'day, I'm too dang tired to write anything about the year of 2076 "Not by Works" thread...uh...
I would like to ask you how your 42nd birthday went,
since you have been anticipating it with some dread?