Not By Works

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Nov 12, 2015
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I have told you BEFORE, that WE DO NOT SEE WORKS AS PART OF SALVATION.


We see WORKS as a Natural By Product of our NEW NATURE (BORN AGAIN), Motivated by GOD's LOVE, that HE had the HOLY SPIRIT POUR INTO OUR HEARTS, Rom. 5:5.
GOD's LOVE will come Out of US, especially in how we will treat a Brother in NEED.


1 John 3:17 (HCSB)

[SUP]17 [/SUP] If anyone has this world’s goods and sees his brother in need but closes his eyes to his ⌊need⌋—how can God’s love reside in him?



SO your accusation about DEAD FAITH, is WRONG, because that is a PRETEND CHRISTIAN, who has NEVER been BORN AGAIN. In other words, he is a psuedo-christian.


1 John 2:19 (HCSB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] They went out from us, but they did not belong to us; for if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. However, they went out so that it might be made clear that none of them belongs to us.

A thought came to mind when I read your first sentence.

You said, we do not see works as a part of salvation.

And my thought was, we don't see works as a part of salvation anymore than we see walking as a part of being born in the natural.

I think I'm starting to see that some (not all) have blinded themselves to what others are saying because of their great desire to be viewed as holy. I think when God starts to take some of their vanity, they will be able to hear what others are saying better.

I can't say they purposely act like they can't hear in order to make displays that will make them seem very holy, but it does LOOK that way sometimes.

There should be no reason why an intelligent person cannot grasp what so many others are saying, like just not even GRASP it - forget agreeing, I'm talking about comprehension, not agreement.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Luke 8:18 Therefore consider carefully how you listen. whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him.”
Has NOTHING to do with salvation.

You keep posting sanctification verses and think they prove your legalistic gospel, Utter failure.. They will not help you
 
Jan 25, 2018
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here is a back and forth where i articulate your lies

and here you are saying i havent......
NNM, I have no clue what you are trying to say, or even the point you are trying
to make. If you cannot honestly articulate it properly, it is meaningless.

Accusations about lying have to be specific, else it is just in your own mind.
Unfortunately one can take phrases often more than one way, so what is innocent
to one, can be terrible to another. Maybe you are just not capable of seeing this? :)

And there is no excuse to accuse someone of lying about the way they express things,
that is just abusive slander.

You claim to know the Lord yet clearly not His ways. Speaking authoritively while
judging another leads you to judgement. It is a dangerous place to go, to fall into
the hands of the Lord.
 
Dec 22, 2017
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Has NOTHING to do with salvation.

You keep posting sanctification verses and think they prove your legalistic gospel, Utter failure.. They will not help you
Matthew 13:11-23 He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
 
Jan 25, 2018
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Jim Jones leading gullable people to suicide en masse <-------very bad, tragic, sad

Pseudo Christians and false working for sinless perfectionists leading people to the lake of fire with eternal consequences <------far worse than the above!
dcontroversal, you clarify your spiritual blindness by this post.

It is like talking to a primary school child who thinks they understand something when
clearly two things are very different. I hope no one else other than eternally-gratefull
can be this stupid. It makes me wonder if you also are a holocaust denier.

If you cannot tell the difference between walking in love and faith and Jim Jones, probably.
 

benhur

Senior Member
Feb 8, 2018
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He has answered your particular question many times. Maybe he is sick of you people thinking you have a slam dunk, then when people answer, you twist their words and make it appear they have not answere4d or said something else.

Just because you do not like the answer does nto mean he has not answered.
Show me where he has answered what happended to the debtor after he was unwilling to forgive the small debtor? It is a simple question.
 
Dec 22, 2017
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Has NOTHING to do with salvation.

You keep posting sanctification verses and think they prove your legalistic gospel, Utter failure.. They will not help you
Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

Psalm 18:30 As for God, his way is perfect; the word of the Lord is flawless. He is a shield for all who take refuge in him.

Hebrews 4:12-13 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart. Nothing in all creation is hidden from God’s sight. Everything is uncovered and laid bare before the eyes of him to whom we must give account.

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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dcontroversal, you clarify your spiritual blindness by this post.

It is like talking to a primary school child who thinks they understand something when
clearly two things are very different. I hope no one else other than eternally-gratefull
can be this stupid. It makes me wonder if you also are a holocaust denier.

If you cannot tell the difference between walking in love and faith and Jim Jones, probably.
And this is the exact point where you have shown your humanness and that you are not as holy as you believe you are. You are taunting and you are calling eg stupid. This is where you got yourself last time and got banned because you just kept cranking it up. And I'm actually saying this with hope for better things for you and in love.
 
Jan 25, 2018
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<><.t.><>

Have you not tried to understand Paul?

The Conflict of Two Natures

Romans 7:14-25 (NASB)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
[SUP]17 [/SUP] So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
[SUP]23 [/SUP] but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.


As Dr. John MacArthur has put it: "A Christian is NOT SINLESS, however, as he or she Matures Spiritually they will Sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS." We will not be Perfect in our Bodies until He Takes us home, in those Resurrected or Changed Glorified Bodies.


1 Corinthians 15:42-43 (NASB)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body;
[SUP]43 [/SUP] it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;


1 Corinthians 15:50-54 (HCSB)
[SUP]50 [/SUP] Brothers, I tell you this: Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, and corruption cannot inherit incorruption.
[SUP]51 [/SUP] Listen! I am telling you a mystery: We will not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed,
[SUP]52 [/SUP] in a moment, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed.
[SUP]53 [/SUP] For this corruptible must be clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal must be clothed with immortality.
[SUP]54 [/SUP] When this corruptible is clothed with incorruptibility, and this mortal is clothed with immortality, then the saying that is written will take place: Death has been swallowed up in victory.


1 John 3:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] And everyone who has this hope fixed on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.

That last verse is an ON GOING ACT OF PURIFICATION, but the PERFECTION OF IT, is in the Resurrection or when HE changes us to be LIKE HIM. Our conscious goal, is to become more, and more LIKE CHRIST, until HE TAKES US HOME TO GO TO THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB.
Thanks for this vco.

I was not looking for a justification of a position, but what you actually believed.
There is a school of Free grace theology, that believes in a mystical experience.
It does not appear you believe this but rather the sanctification of the repentant
redeemed believer which is where I also stand.

This is why some of the group divisions are actually miss-leading and different people
are actually holding very different positions, while thinking there are two camps, this
is not actually true.

It is why I would gladly call you a brother in Christ, while dcontroversal is definately in
the heretical free grace camp. Deception is a difficult thing unless one understands the
enemy plays loyalty and antagonism to split groups rather than seeing a common cause
in praising the Lord and walking in His ways.

An example of such a dilemma is a sincere believer who went to Bethel bible school, where
in some things the Lord blessed while Bethel has endorsed omen card fortune telling as a
way of 3rd heaven spiritual ministry to new age followers. There are no proper boundaries
and spiritual experiences are exalted about scripture and Jesus's words, so nothing is properly
foundational, but they love to make it look like it is.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
Matthew 25:1-46 The Parable of the Ten Virgins “At that time the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish and five were wise. The foolish ones took their lamps but did not take any oil with them. The wise, however, took oil in jars along with their lamps. The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep. “At midnight the cry rang out: ‘Here’s the bridegroom! Come out to meet him!’ “Then all the virgins woke up and trimmed their lamps. The foolish ones said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil; our lamps are going out.’ “‘No,’ they replied, ‘there may not be enough for both us and you. Instead, go to those who sell oil and buy some for yourselves.’ “But while they were on their way to buy the oil, the bridegroom arrived. The virgins who were ready went in with him to the wedding banquet. And the door was shut. “Later the others also came. ‘Sir! Sir!’ they said. ‘Open the door for us!’ “But he replied, ‘I tell you the truth, I don’t know you.’ “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour. The Parable of the Talents “Again, it will be like a man going on a journey, who called his servants and entrusted his property to them. To one he gave five talents of money, to another two talents, and to another one talent, each according to his ability. Then he went on his journey. The man who had received the five talents went at once and put his money to work and gained five more. So also, the one with the two talents gained two more. But the man who had received the one talent went off, dug a hole in the ground and hid his master’s money. “After a long time the master of those servants returned and settled accounts with them. The man who had received the five talents brought the other five. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with five talents. See, I have gained five more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ “The man with the two talents also came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘you entrusted me with two talents; see, I have gained two more.’ “His master replied, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant! You have been faithful with a few things; I will put you in charge of many things. Come and share your master’s happiness!’ “Then the man who had received the one talent came. ‘Master,’ he said, ‘I knew that you are a hard man, harvesting where you have not sown and gathering where you have not scattered seed. So I was afraid and went out and hid your talent in the ground. See, here is what belongs to you.’ “His master replied, ‘You wicked, lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest. “‘Take the talent from him and give it to the one who has the ten talents. For everyone who has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.’ The Sheep and the Goats “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’ “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’ “The King will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.’ “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’ “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’ “He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”i
Well I gave you a like for your "effort".
These two parables are "related" but one is of "entering heaven at the end" the other is of "serving God "while we are here".
The parable of virgins is referring to "being ready to leave the world behind" when Jesus returns.
The other refers to "going out to the world and "using what God gives" to lead "souls to him".
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Matthew 13:11-23 He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’ But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For I tell you the truth, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it. “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The one who received the seed that fell on rocky places is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away. The one who received the seed that fell among the thorns is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful. But the one who received the seed that fell on good soil is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Producing fruit is a work of people who are saved, You do nto work to get saved.

Your still posting sanctification verses. Get over it.. And start looking on how to get saved.

titus 3: 5. NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but BY HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US..

what part of not by works we have done do you fail to comprehend??

Your passage does not aline with that verse if you use it as a means of justification, You cause God to contradict himself.

 
Jan 25, 2018
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And this is the exact point where you have shown your humanness and that you are not as holy as you believe you are. You are taunting and you are calling eg stupid. This is where you got yourself last time and got banned because you just kept cranking it up. And I'm actually saying this with hope for better things for you and in love.
Stunned, I am not claiming I am "Holy". I am saying God regards all purified
faithful followers who have repented of their sins, holy.

And by the way you do not know who I am or what I am doing.
It is moronically stupid to compare a massacre of people because of a cult leader
who murdered his followers with desiring to follow the Lord in love and faithfulness.

I have no reason to believe anyone who defends this kind of comparison.
It only makes sense when you accept this is just point scoring with no real reality.
Or they are seriously stunted in their ability to know the difference between murder
and abuse and a difference of religious belief. But then it explains why bdf goes off
the rails.....
 
Dec 22, 2017
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Producing fruit is a work of people who are saved, You do nto work to get saved.

Your still posting sanctification verses. Get over it.. And start looking on how to get saved.

titus 3: 5. NOT BY WORKS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS WHICH WE HAVE DONE, but BY HIS MERCY, HE SAVED US..

what part of not by works we have done do you fail to comprehend??

Your passage does not aline with that verse if you use it as a means of justification, You cause God to contradict himself.

John 7:17-18 If anyone chooses to do God’s will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own. He who speaks on his own does so to gain honor for himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him.

dcon said;

Take 1 second and actually think about and ponder what this thread is about.....serious.....it is about HOW ONE IS SAVED not WHAT THEY DO AFTER THEY ARE SAVED.....it IS FAITH ALONE THAT SAVES.....end of story........!

ElAmor

To get this over with, i want to ask dcon “HOW IS ONE SAVED"?

the bible tells us about it this way;

Romans 10:8-18 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: THAT IF YOU CONFESS WITH YOUR MOUTH, “JESUS IS LORD,” AND BELIEVE IN YOUR HEART THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, YOU WILL BE SAVED. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And HOW CAN THEY BELIEVE in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear WITHOUT SOMEONE PREACHING TO THEM? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, FAITH COMES FROM HEARING THE MESSAGE, and the message is heard through the word of Christ. But I ask: Did they not hear? Of course they did: “Their voice has gone out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”

It is clear that PREACHING is a WORK necessary for one to BELIEVE and have FAITH and therefore be SAVED.

Another thing we need to notice is that WITH THE HEART WE BELIEVE AND ARE JUSTIFIED and WITH OUR MOUTH WE CONFESS AND ARE SAVED.

Believe and confess are two different words with different meaning, the same as justified and saved.

Romans 10 clearly proves that Salvation is not through Faith ALONE.

BELIEF, FAITH, CONFESSION, REPENTANCE, PREACHING, BAPTISM, OBEDIENCE , FAITH, HOPE, LOVE, WISDOM, HOLINESS, RIGHTEOUSNESS, GOOD WORKS, SERVICE, WORSHIP ETC. ARE ALL WORKS OF SALVATION THAT THE BODY OF CHRIST POSSESS AND DO FOR THE HONOR AND GLORY AND PRAISE OF GOD OUR FATHER AND HIS ONLY SON JESUS CHRIST OUR LORD AND SAVIOR.

Ephesians 4:1-6 Unity in the Body of Christ As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
 
Jan 25, 2018
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I could get angry about holocaust deniers, or people who idolize the killing of Jews,
or those who wish to make any group they dislike the worst most evil people in the world.

History is full of groups who do this, and it always ends in blood feuds with generations of
peoples lives destroyed. The people who introduce such ideas, often come from exploited
violent backgrounds where such language and feelings are common place. But it is like
a cancer, once set off can run riot.

Northern Ireland had a civil war for 30 years because of such things. These are dangerous
waters when people walk this road, and everyone loses.

So if you want to validate such things, be aware of where you are treading.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Stunned, I am not claiming I am "Holy". I am saying God regards all purified
faithful followers who have repented of their sins, holy.

And by the way you do not know who I am or what I am doing.
It is moronically stupid to compare a massacre of people because of a cult leader
who murdered his followers with desiring to follow the Lord in love and faithfulness.

I have no reason to believe anyone who defends this kind of comparison.
It only makes sense when you accept this is just point scoring with no real reality.
Or they are seriously stunted in their ability to know the difference between murder
and abuse and a difference of religious belief. But then it explains why bdf goes off
the rails.....
You called eg stupid. And now there's no desire to say, I'm sorry brother, that was rude of me?

And changing stupid to now moronic, not helping.
 
Nov 12, 2015
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I could get angry about holocaust deniers, or people who idolize the killing of Jews,
or those who wish to make any group they dislike the worst most evil people in the world.

History is full of groups who do this, and it always ends in blood feuds with generations of
peoples lives destroyed. The people who introduce such ideas, often come from exploited
violent backgrounds where such language and feelings are common place. But it is like
a cancer, once set off can run riot.

Northern Ireland had a civil war for 30 years because of such things. These are dangerous
waters when people walk this road, and everyone loses.

So if you want to validate such things, be aware of where you are treading.
Would it be good to validate you calling eg stupid?
 
Nov 12, 2015
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Show me where he has answered what happended to the debtor after he was unwilling to forgive the small debtor? It is a simple question.
He threw him back into prison until he could pay the last farthing...it is meant to work on our hearts, to produce godly fear and contriteness for our own unforgivenesses and to make us cry to God to give us a clean heart.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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A thought came to mind when I read your first sentence.

You said, we do not see works as a part of salvation.

And my thought was, we don't see works as a part of salvation anymore than we see walking as a part of being born in the natural.

I think I'm starting to see that some (not all) have blinded themselves to what others are saying because of their great desire to be viewed as holy. I think when God starts to take some of their vanity, they will be able to hear what others are saying better.

I can't say they purposely act like they can't hear in order to make displays that will make them seem very holy, but it does LOOK that way sometimes.

There should be no reason why an intelligent person cannot grasp what so many others are saying, like just not even GRASP it - forget agreeing, I'm talking about comprehension, not agreement.

So then, are you saying that your first thought, Blinded you to what I was saying?


SALVATION, took Place the in that ONE Moment in TIME, that I first BELIEVED. NOT when I thought taking up space on a Pew made me a Christian. I was 29 years old, when I FIRST REALLY BELIEVED. That MOMENT when I felt over whelmed by my GUILT as a SINNER, and was willing from the depth of my Soul, to CRY OUT, "FORGIVE ME, FORGIVE ME!"


Romans 5:8-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But God proves His own love for us in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us!
[SUP]9 [/SUP] Much more then, since we have now been declared righteous by His blood, we will be saved through Him from wrath.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, ⌊then how⌋ much more, having been reconciled, will we be saved by His life!
[SUP]11 [/SUP] And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ. We have now received this reconciliation through Him.


SALVATION is ETERNAL. IF IT WAS REAL, IT IS A DONE DEAL, from that MOMENT ON.


GOD put HIS LOVE IN US, via the Holy Spirit {Rom. 5:5}, and HIS LOVE works it's way out of us, in how we are OBEDIENT to HIM, and in how we respond to the NEEDS of Others.

IT IS PART OF OUR LOVE that HE GAVE US.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Thanks for this vco.

I was not looking for a justification of a position, but what you actually believed.
There is a school of Free grace theology, that believes in a mystical experience.
It does not appear you believe this but rather the sanctification of the repentant
redeemed believer which is where I also stand.

This is why some of the group divisions are actually miss-leading and different people
are actually holding very different positions, while thinking there are two camps, this
is not actually true.

It is why I would gladly call you a brother in Christ, while dcontroversal is definately in
the heretical free grace camp. Deception is a difficult thing unless one understands the
enemy plays loyalty and antagonism to split groups rather than seeing a common cause
in praising the Lord and walking in His ways.

An example of such a dilemma is a sincere believer who went to Bethel bible school, where
in some things the Lord blessed while Bethel has endorsed omen card fortune telling as a
way of 3rd heaven spiritual ministry to new age followers. There are no proper boundaries
and spiritual experiences are exalted about scripture and Jesus's words, so nothing is properly
foundational, but they love to make it look like it is.

You have Mis-judged dcontroversal.