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Why, I think it would be marvelous to sit back and have a front row seat for armageddon. If the rapture happens after everything like some say, that would be amazing.
Personally I dont know if the rapture will be pre or post tribulations. And since we are told to be ever vigilant Im not sure it matters. But I would like to watch the old earth die.
Personally I dont know if the rapture will be pre or post tribulations. And since we are told to be ever vigilant Im not sure it matters. But I would like to watch the old earth die.
P
I find nothing to indicate a rapture of the dead and alive in Christ Jesus in revelation 20;4.
The following is the definition of soul.
In revelation 20;4....notice the words...Then I saw "SOULS"
The following is a definition of the word "SOUL"
1.The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2.The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3.The disembodied spirit of a dead human.
Also notice that in revelation 20,....that only those on thrones and martyred are present,...and that the words...."and the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished,...which implies that a resurrection of the tribulation martyreds had just taken place in revelation 20.
About the martyred trib saints under the alter:
notice that they are crying to be avenged.
But Jesus said that the Bride is to pray and forgive their enemies.
Therefore, the trib Saints are not grouped with the Bride.
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
1.Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.
2.The devils believe that Jesus is Lord and they tremble!
3.Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ...
4.And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this
mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you. ...
5.And upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!
Again!..."Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Now try to imagine,......The Bride of Jesus Christ had just wittnessed with their own eyes,....a 7 year covenant had been confirmed between the anti-christ and Israel!
The Brides faith, which today seems to be smaller than a mustard seed,...would be transformed overnite into a faith larger than a mountain!
You would have millions of super Billy Grahams running loose on the earth!
Well,....Today,the anti-christ or the false prophet cannot perform one miracle,or take center stage, until the Bride has been caught up out of this world!!!
He is no match for us today and absolutely would not be any match to a Bride who had just wittnessed a 7 year covenant confirmed between Israel and the anti-christ.
We know that the holy spirit is omnipresent and was present before the creation of the world.
The old testament saints,..where worthy of heaven when they had lived and died in faith.Their works followed them.King David cried out that the Holy Spirit would not be taken from him when he had committed adultery.Under the Mosiac Law,....if you committed one sin,...then it was like committing them all.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The comforter is the Holy Spirit, but yet keep in mind that the Holy spirit is omnipresent.
This means that the Holy Spirit(Comforter)had a special task to do on earth!
And on the day of Pentecost,...The church age was born!
Each person who comes to the cross of calvary and ask's the Lord into their heart,...the Holy Spirit seals them with the promise.
And when the Comforter 's task is completed on this earth,...The Bride which hinders the revealing of the son of perdition,....is taken out of the way.
The church age will be over,the bride caught up into the air to meet the Lord.
The Holy spirit is still omnipresent,...and those who were left behind will have one of the greatest incentives the world has ever wittnessed to come to Christ Jesus...THE RAPTURE!.
But things will revert back to the way it was before the church age had began on the day of Pentecost.
The Lord makes it clear that during the Great Tribulation,the Martyred Tribulation Saints will be a multitude that no man could number. Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit,
that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
There will be some trib saints that will survive the Great Tribulation.
They will be allowed into the millenium based on their works of faith.
For just as the body without the spirit is dead,
so also faith without works is dead. ...
There will be a Sheep and Goat Judgement.
There are some who are looking for the anti-christ first,...meaning that their focus is not really on Jesus the Christ.
Instead some but not all, thrive on self and think that you can depend on their own self to survive the tribulation.Some think that they are going to make a big splash of popularity during the tribulation.They seem to think that it's all about them.Some think that they can prove to Jesus that by laying their life down as a martyred saint that they will have proven their self worthy.It's like they are saying to him,..."Hey, look at me!....It's as though they are saying that His grace is not sufficient enough for them.It's as though they are trying to earn their way into heaven, when all along the Lord had paid that price on the Cross of Calvary.Peter walked on the water with the Lord, but for a second, Peter took his eyes off of the Lord and saw those big tribulation waves, and fear came into his heart and when fear came, then came doubt, and then no faith, and then Peter sank.There are some that think that they can store up a lot of supplies to get them through the tribulation.But that is not what the Lord had intended and it shows what little faith that they have.
The following is very true.
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof.
So maybe some will say,..."Well the Lord will keep us from the wrath during the tribulation.
I would not call the death of tribulation saints that no man could number, a scenerio of being protected.Obviously,the Lord had the Bride in mind and not the tribulation saints.
Anyone reading this who has asked for discernment can see the true nature and what is in the Lords heart for His people.
Some claim that when the Lord descends on the earth at the end of the tribulation,...that the alive and the dead will receive immortal bodies.They will quote Matthew 24;31 and say;...The angels will gather us up to meet the Lord in the air.
Think about the following;...The Lord Jesus said;that we neither marry nor are we given in marriage in heaven and we will be like the angels!... ..ANGELS can travel at the speed of thought, fly here, fly there.What I am pointing out is we, the Bride, when we receive our immortal bodies will not need angels to catch us up to meet the Lord in the air! Only the Elect like Jews and trib saints who are still in their natural bodies will need angels to transport them.
The following is the definition of soul.
In revelation 20;4....notice the words...Then I saw "SOULS"
The following is a definition of the word "SOUL"
1.The animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
2.The spiritual nature of humans, regarded as immortal, separable from the body at death, and susceptible to happiness or misery in a future state.
3.The disembodied spirit of a dead human.
Also notice that in revelation 20,....that only those on thrones and martyred are present,...and that the words...."and the rest of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were finished,...which implies that a resurrection of the tribulation martyreds had just taken place in revelation 20.
About the martyred trib saints under the alter:
notice that they are crying to be avenged.
But Jesus said that the Bride is to pray and forgive their enemies.
Therefore, the trib Saints are not grouped with the Bride.
"Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed."
1.Greater is He that is in you than he that is in the world.
2.The devils believe that Jesus is Lord and they tremble!
3.Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven:
and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. ...
4.And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a mustard seed, you would say to this
mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and be planted in the sea'; and it would obey you. ...
5.And upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!
Again!..."Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.
Now try to imagine,......The Bride of Jesus Christ had just wittnessed with their own eyes,....a 7 year covenant had been confirmed between the anti-christ and Israel!
The Brides faith, which today seems to be smaller than a mustard seed,...would be transformed overnite into a faith larger than a mountain!
You would have millions of super Billy Grahams running loose on the earth!
Well,....Today,the anti-christ or the false prophet cannot perform one miracle,or take center stage, until the Bride has been caught up out of this world!!!
He is no match for us today and absolutely would not be any match to a Bride who had just wittnessed a 7 year covenant confirmed between Israel and the anti-christ.
We know that the holy spirit is omnipresent and was present before the creation of the world.
The old testament saints,..where worthy of heaven when they had lived and died in faith.Their works followed them.King David cried out that the Holy Spirit would not be taken from him when he had committed adultery.Under the Mosiac Law,....if you committed one sin,...then it was like committing them all.
Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
The comforter is the Holy Spirit, but yet keep in mind that the Holy spirit is omnipresent.
This means that the Holy Spirit(Comforter)had a special task to do on earth!
And on the day of Pentecost,...The church age was born!
Each person who comes to the cross of calvary and ask's the Lord into their heart,...the Holy Spirit seals them with the promise.
And when the Comforter 's task is completed on this earth,...The Bride which hinders the revealing of the son of perdition,....is taken out of the way.
The church age will be over,the bride caught up into the air to meet the Lord.
The Holy spirit is still omnipresent,...and those who were left behind will have one of the greatest incentives the world has ever wittnessed to come to Christ Jesus...THE RAPTURE!.
But things will revert back to the way it was before the church age had began on the day of Pentecost.
The Lord makes it clear that during the Great Tribulation,the Martyred Tribulation Saints will be a multitude that no man could number. Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit,
that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.
There will be some trib saints that will survive the Great Tribulation.
They will be allowed into the millenium based on their works of faith.
For just as the body without the spirit is dead,
so also faith without works is dead. ...
There will be a Sheep and Goat Judgement.
There are some who are looking for the anti-christ first,...meaning that their focus is not really on Jesus the Christ.
Instead some but not all, thrive on self and think that you can depend on their own self to survive the tribulation.Some think that they are going to make a big splash of popularity during the tribulation.They seem to think that it's all about them.Some think that they can prove to Jesus that by laying their life down as a martyred saint that they will have proven their self worthy.It's like they are saying to him,..."Hey, look at me!....It's as though they are saying that His grace is not sufficient enough for them.It's as though they are trying to earn their way into heaven, when all along the Lord had paid that price on the Cross of Calvary.Peter walked on the water with the Lord, but for a second, Peter took his eyes off of the Lord and saw those big tribulation waves, and fear came into his heart and when fear came, then came doubt, and then no faith, and then Peter sank.There are some that think that they can store up a lot of supplies to get them through the tribulation.But that is not what the Lord had intended and it shows what little faith that they have.
The following is very true.
Mat 6:25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
Mat 6:26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?
Mat 6:28 And why take ye thought for raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow; they toil not, neither do they spin:
Mat 6:29 And yet I say unto you, That even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Wherefore, if God so clothe the grass of the field, which to day is, and to morrow is cast into the oven, [shall he] not much more [clothe] you, O ye of little faith?
Mat 6:31 Therefore take no thought, saying, What shall we eat? or, What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed?
Mat 6:32 (For after all these things do the Gentiles seek
for your heavenly Father knoweth that ye have need of all these things. Mat 6:33 But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day [is] the evil thereof.
So maybe some will say,..."Well the Lord will keep us from the wrath during the tribulation.
I would not call the death of tribulation saints that no man could number, a scenerio of being protected.Obviously,the Lord had the Bride in mind and not the tribulation saints.
Anyone reading this who has asked for discernment can see the true nature and what is in the Lords heart for His people.
Some claim that when the Lord descends on the earth at the end of the tribulation,...that the alive and the dead will receive immortal bodies.They will quote Matthew 24;31 and say;...The angels will gather us up to meet the Lord in the air.
Think about the following;...The Lord Jesus said;that we neither marry nor are we given in marriage in heaven and we will be like the angels!... ..ANGELS can travel at the speed of thought, fly here, fly there.What I am pointing out is we, the Bride, when we receive our immortal bodies will not need angels to catch us up to meet the Lord in the air! Only the Elect like Jews and trib saints who are still in their natural bodies will need angels to transport them.
E
The Rapture persay, is false teaching, you must go to the Words of the Lord for any absolute facts! Matthew 13:49-50 - He declares first the wicked are lifted up from among the Just! Those who are first too be removed are those who cannot inherit the earth in flesh! Go to the Lords gathering / sounding website! He now has given His bible code/keys and the mystery is finished Rev:10:7! Also on His site the prophecy and the signs page , are signs of this now due season, which half have already come! Go too Adam and Eve seed Gathering Ministry on the net, and therein Adam and Eve are now honoured for their completed mission/research! Many classic paintings of our People and God, literally 100's, are also there which speak Word of Themselves, and the mystery is exposed therein, leave a method of contact for much proof and Word on the now end of sickness and aging, Rev:21:4 it has begun! Much respect Elijahtruth
P
I like your reply(smiling)
If "ALL" the dead and alive in Christ Jesus are raptured and given immortal bodies,...then the only remaining mortal people on the earth would be the wicked and we know what happens to them.
Therefore,...the post trib rapture does not have not even one man and woman in their mortal body to repopulate the earth.
Again with this fact in mind,...you have to ask the question why did not the martyred saints in revelation 20;4 get caught up in the post trib rapture too.
Again,..There will be a sheep and goat judgement just before the millennium begins,...why were not the sheep caught up,..if there really was a post trib rapture,..the sheep would be caught up tonly a pre-trib rapture is in harmony with the scriptures.
Please feel free to ask me" any question"
If "ALL" the dead and alive in Christ Jesus are raptured and given immortal bodies,...then the only remaining mortal people on the earth would be the wicked and we know what happens to them.
Therefore,...the post trib rapture does not have not even one man and woman in their mortal body to repopulate the earth.
Again with this fact in mind,...you have to ask the question why did not the martyred saints in revelation 20;4 get caught up in the post trib rapture too.
Again,..There will be a sheep and goat judgement just before the millennium begins,...why were not the sheep caught up,..if there really was a post trib rapture,..the sheep would be caught up to
nly a pre-trib rapture is in harmony with the scriptures.Please feel free to ask me" any question"
I like your reply(smiling)
If "ALL" the dead and alive in Christ Jesus are raptured and given immortal bodies,...then the only remaining mortal people on the earth would be the wicked and we know what happens to them.
Therefore,...the post trib rapture does not have not even one man and woman in their mortal body to repopulate the earth.
Again with this fact in mind,...you have to ask the question why did not the martyred saints in revelation 20;4 get caught up in the post trib rapture too.
Again,..There will be a sheep and goat judgement just before the millennium begins,...why were not the sheep caught up,..if there really was a post trib rapture,..the sheep would be caught up tonly a pre-trib rapture is in harmony with the scriptures.
Please feel free to ask me" any question"
If "ALL" the dead and alive in Christ Jesus are raptured and given immortal bodies,...then the only remaining mortal people on the earth would be the wicked and we know what happens to them.
Therefore,...the post trib rapture does not have not even one man and woman in their mortal body to repopulate the earth.
Again with this fact in mind,...you have to ask the question why did not the martyred saints in revelation 20;4 get caught up in the post trib rapture too.
Again,..There will be a sheep and goat judgement just before the millennium begins,...why were not the sheep caught up,..if there really was a post trib rapture,..the sheep would be caught up to
nly a pre-trib rapture is in harmony with the scriptures.Please feel free to ask me" any question"
#1 you have the redeemed who will be resurrected or rapture
#2 you have the reprobate, who have turned from God completely and aligned themselves with the anti-christ. who will be destroyed
#3 you have the Gentile resistors who though they have not accepted Christ have survived the tribulation refusing to serve the anti christ. They will be neither rapture or destroyed.
#4 you have the Jewish resisters who refused to served anti christ and will not accept Jesus as messiah until they see Him returning to Earth.
Both groups 3 and 4 will enter the millennium in mortal bodies.
not only is the pretrib rapture not in harmony with the scripture, but if we accept scripture as truth then they cause any belief in a pretrib rapture to become impossible.
If you have any questions feel free to ask me ''any question''
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P
You Quote:
you have the redeemed who will be resurrected or rapture
My Reply:
Yes that is 1 thessalonians 4;16-17
And the word is "ALL"..........this would include "ALL the dead and Alive in Christ Jesus,..leaving the Unsaved to face the wrath of God,...again who will be left to repopulate the earth?...can you answer this question?
You Quote:
#3 you have the Gentile resistors who though they have not accepted Christ have survived the tribulation refusing to serve the anti christ. They will be neither rapture or destroyed.
#4 you have the Jewish resisters who refused to served anti christ and will not accept Jesus as messiah until they see Him returning to Earth.
My Reply:
You theory here is not in the scriptures at all, ....And besides,..if the Jews had not yet already come to Jesus before He returns it will be too late,..that is why some are mourning when they see Him return.
The ones that are saved give a hurrah!(Smiling)
The Sheep and goat judgement is to decide who in faith helped , fed, clothed, and hid a Jew when he was in danger,..the Lord says that no greater love is that a man would lay his life down for his brother,..and of course genisis still applies,.."blessed are those that blesses thee and cursed is him that curseth thee"
And last of all to reply your last point,..the Lord is very clear that unbelievers will not enter the Kingdom
Revelation 21;8
If one has not accepted jesus,..He is an unbeliever.
The scripture says,...revelation 22;11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
you have the redeemed who will be resurrected or rapture
My Reply:
Yes that is 1 thessalonians 4;16-17
And the word is "ALL"..........this would include "ALL the dead and Alive in Christ Jesus,..leaving the Unsaved to face the wrath of God,...again who will be left to repopulate the earth?...can you answer this question?
You Quote:
#3 you have the Gentile resistors who though they have not accepted Christ have survived the tribulation refusing to serve the anti christ. They will be neither rapture or destroyed.
#4 you have the Jewish resisters who refused to served anti christ and will not accept Jesus as messiah until they see Him returning to Earth.
My Reply:
You theory here is not in the scriptures at all, ....And besides,..if the Jews had not yet already come to Jesus before He returns it will be too late,..that is why some are mourning when they see Him return.
The ones that are saved give a hurrah!(Smiling)
The Sheep and goat judgement is to decide who in faith helped , fed, clothed, and hid a Jew when he was in danger,..the Lord says that no greater love is that a man would lay his life down for his brother,..and of course genisis still applies,.."blessed are those that blesses thee and cursed is him that curseth thee"
And last of all to reply your last point,..the Lord is very clear that unbelievers will not enter the Kingdom
Revelation 21;8
If one has not accepted jesus,..He is an unbeliever.
The scripture says,...revelation 22;11
He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
wonders if eithers "any questions" answers will truly be reflected upon. hope so cause this is truly pleasant in the eyes of the Lord to question what one holds as truth & praying for discernment in the scripture that may challenge that truth. God bless this debate & I truly do miss miktre's presence.
Actually it is very well documented through out scripture. There are many scripture that speak of those that are left or remain on the day of the Lord that will have the opportunity to receive him as Messiah. Here are a couple
Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
When the Jews see Jesus returning they will true to Him and be saved, they will miss the rapture yet be delivered from the wrath. The reason they mourn is because what He had endured at the hands, not for themselves, but for Him
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
you are rght all who refuse to accept Jesus as Messiah will be executed
Zechariah 13
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
When the Jews see Jesus returning they will true to Him and be saved, they will miss the rapture yet be delivered from the wrath. The reason they mourn is because what He had endured at the hands, not for themselves, but for Him
Zechariah 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
you are rght all who refuse to accept Jesus as Messiah will be executed