The resurrection of the saints at the Resurrection/Rapture. Nothing to do with Revelation.
The Rapture of the Church is not biblical.
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But but but the ones being described in Rev 20:5 are believers that were beheaded for their testimony against the antichrist, so they are also saints. They rule with Christ for 1000 years.
There are big problems with your belief that 1 Thess 4 talks of rapture:
1. 1 Thess 4 promises that the saints will forever be with Christ but in Rev 20, we don't see them with Christ
2. Rev 20:5 clearly says that it is the first resurrection for saints and the second one happens later after the 1000 years and it involves everyone else. So, the 1 Thess 4 resurrection must really be a secret one that the bible shies away to mention it as the first resurrection of the saints.
To me, 1 Thess 4 is talking about the very end, the second resurrection that leads to judgement.
There are all too many believers who are not aware if they are truly in Jesus Christ they have become the remnant, called Jews or Yahudim.
When we recognize what Yahudim translates as we know who we are. No our bloodline has not been changed but we become true praisers of Yahway......for this is what a Jew is.
Nowhere in the Word is Jew considered a religion or a denomination. When referring to the Hebrews and teh Nations who believe it is all who praise God, Yahweh. (
When we recognize what Yahudim translates as we know who we are. No our bloodline has not been changed but we become true praisers of Yahway......for this is what a Jew is.
Nowhere in the Word is Jew considered a religion or a denomination. When referring to the Hebrews and teh Nations who believe it is all who praise God, Yahweh. (
Yes, those are the Tribulation Saints. Nowhere will you find that the whole Church is beheaded. So try and understand the three phases of the first resurrection, with the last phase in Rev 20. Study 1 Corinthians 15, which definitely does not say that the whole Church will be beheaded.
Rem, JaumeJ, God has two separate plans of redemption. One for Israel and One for the Gentiles/Jews
Aaaaah! finally, a phrase that is unheard of- 'three phases of the first resurrection' still doesn't answer the question. The people who participate in the so called first phase of the first resurrection in 1 Thess 4, are promised to be with the Lord forever, but we don't see none being with the Lord for millennium rule, was this a false promise? God forbid.
Rev 20:5 should have just said this is the third phase of the first resurrection but it doesn't because it is not.
Daniel foresaw all these events until the end, he never saw at any point saints being lifted in the air to be saved but he saw saints being overwhelmed and finally being defeated by the small horn.
Time to rethink.
Hello Noose,
If you had read the following you wouldn't be saying that. For the scripture below is a promise to all believers who overcome:
"But I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned the so-called deep things of Satan: I will place no further burden upon you. Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery—just as I have received authority from My Father.
The reference to have authority over the nations is referring to all believers rule with Christ during the millennial kingdom. It is the same regarding the great tribulation saints who will have died during the great tribulation who will be resurrected after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age as revealed in Rev.20:4-6. The Male Child/144,000 will also rule with Christ during the millennial period.
If you had read the following you wouldn't be saying that. For the scripture below is a promise to all believers who overcome:
"But I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned the so-called deep things of Satan: I will place no further burden upon you. Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter and shatter them like pottery—just as I have received authority from My Father.
The reference to have authority over the nations is referring to all believers rule with Christ during the millennial kingdom. It is the same regarding the great tribulation saints who will have died during the great tribulation who will be resurrected after the Lord returns to the earth to end the age as revealed in Rev.20:4-6. The Male Child/144,000 will also rule with Christ during the millennial period.
Always bear in mind the Good Shepherd declared in His teching that He had His original flock and He had His other flock which He was going to join together........those flocks are now One in Christ, the Hebrews first and then the Nations........ If this were not true, why would He teach this?
To be a beheaded in respect to a soul must be defined according to the signified language of Revelation. Christ is our head. A beheaded soul is simply one under the authority of Christ, our head
First a person cannot literally see a soul; Literal souls don’t have literal heads.
Not only did God brings his word but signified it hiding the spiritual understanding in parables like the parable found in Revelation 20.
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and "signified it" by his angel unto his servant John:Revelation 1:1
Many today will say look to the literal understanding as walking by sight. The scriptures offer no such kind of understanding. But rather it apposes the faith principle.... the reason for the fall of man.
The temporal as the seen must be compared the eternal not seen, as a law of faith. The literal as to the letter of the law kills.
Head cheeze to the worms,
For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God: Job 19:25
Its one of those Catholic martyr doctrines by which they create worship-able “patron saints” to fulfill their necromancy doctrines.
The word martyr with no other meaning added simply mean witness. When a person leaves this realm under the Sun and how they die does not change the fact that they were witnesses.
Dying while witnessing is no different then dying in ones sleep. Dead is dead.
Definition of martyr
: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
3: victim; especially : a great or constant sufferer
Merriam-Webster
: a person who voluntarily suffers death as the penalty of witnessing to and refusing to renounce a religion
2: a person who sacrifices something of great value and especially life itself for the sake of principle
- a martyr to the cause of freedom
3: victim; especially : a great or constant sufferer
- a martyr to asthma all his life
- —A. J. Cronin
Merriam-Webster
I a no scholar but it seem Merriam Webster was influenced by Catholicism.
Strong's Greek: 3144. μάρτυς (martus) -- a witness
biblehub.com/greek/3144.htm
Strong's Exhaustive Concordance martyr, witness. Of uncertain affinity; a witness (literally (judicially) or figuratively (genitive case)); by analogy, a "martyr" -- martyr
Adding witnessing that causes death is another of the words that Catholics have re-defined to add special privilege that a Christian did not die in their sleep, a qualification for special kind a worship-able or venerable, a form of worship, a Patron Saint.
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (signifying a unknown) Rev. 20:4-
The signified meaning of a thousand represents a unknown
Remember he not only revealed his word as he spoke in parables but he also signified it. Giving us the unseen spiritual understanding, the hidden manna.
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
Revelation 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years (another unknown) were finished.
This is the first resurrection the only one which qualifies all those asleep and those riegning when he does come to give us our new bodies.
The second and final resurrection is the receiving of the promised incorruptible bodies in which no one knows what they will be like. But definitely different kind of flesh . Corrupted flesh and blood could never enter the new order.
There will be no mixture of corrupted bodies and the incorruptible at the same time. It would seem that kind of idea is reserved for Hollywod and Zombies, the living dead
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.(a unknown) Rev 20:4
Christ came to pay the wage in respect to the second death the death of our spirit . The first death is to all who are born in Adam .The wrath that is being revealed.
No direct mention of a second resurrection in that context (Revelation 20) . The second is a fulfillment of the first. In the twinkling of the eye all of the saints from the beginning of time will receive the promise.
No garee, the word "signified" does not mean "unknown. It means that he "made it known." It will be a literal thousand years. There is nothing in the context that infers otherwise. To make the thousand years an unknown amount of time, is just to ignore what the scripture is plainly stating. Besides this, the word "signified" is not even used in the context.
Regarding parables, Jesus said the following:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Then the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Why do You speak to the people in parables?”
He replied, “The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. This is why I speak to them in parables:
‘Though seeing, they do not see;though hearing, they do not hear or understand.’In them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled:‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.For this people’s heart has grown callous;they hardly hear with their ears,and they have closed their eyes.Otherwise they might see with their eyes,hear with their ears,understand with their hearts,and turn,and I would heal them.’
But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear. For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
People misuse the reference to parables as a way to change what is mean to be literal into what is symbolic. If you will notice, the disciples asked "why do you speak to [them] in parables" meaning that generation of Israel. Regarding this Jesus also said:
"The knowledge of the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them."
So, the knowledge of the kingdom of heaven has been given to us (believers), but to them (that generation of Israel).
Also, the word "signified" is only used in the KJV, with most of the translations translating it as "made it known."
No, not unknown. If you will put aside your false application and just read it, it says that the rest of the dead did not live again until the end of the thousand years. The literal meaning of a "thousand years" is further supported by the fact that Satan is cast into the Abyss for a thousand years and that he released at the end of that thousand years and that those great tribulation saints that are resurrected in Rev.20:4-6 rule with Christ for a thousand years. Therefore, since the words "a thousand years" are consistently used, a literal interpretation of a thousand years is meant.
Strong's Concordance
sémainó: to give a sign
Original Word: σημαίνωPart of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: sémainó
Phonetic Spelling: (say-mah'-ee-no)
Short Definition: I signify, indicate
Definition: I signify, indicate, give a sign, make known.
This group above which are the great tribulation saints, are just one group of the first resurrection. Below are the different stages of the first resurrection:
1) Jesus the first fruits of the first resurrection
2) The church at the Lord's appearing (John 14:1-3, 1 Thes.4:13-18, 1 Cor.15:51-53)
3) The Male Child/144,000 - Caught up (Rev.12:5)
4) The two witnesses ) (Rev.11:11)
5) The great tribulation saints (Rev.20:4-6)
All of the above are resurrections and those changed and caught up, which take place at different times, and which are all apart of the first resurrection.
The resurrection that takes place after the end of the literal thousand years, will be all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history who be resurrected out of Sheol/Hades and will be judged for every sin they ever committed.
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Like i have always said; there are only 2 groups of believers/real Jews- the unfaithful believers aka the church of Smyrna/ Jerusalem. These are the majority of believers today. They have to face the great tribulation and they MUST die for their testimony.
The second group is the faithful believers; these are are very few, only 144k. They are the church of Philadelphia aka Judah. These shall be protected from the great tribulation.
The rest of the people are with the antichrist. They belong to the other 5 churches of Revelation which fail to make the cut; if it were possible that anyone would move from the antichrist group to be on the Lord's side, they would join either the church of Smyrna or Philadelphia, but only God knows.
All the people as described in the 7 churches will be here on earth and will be tested by the great tribulation. There is certainly no special group that will be flying away from the tribulation- even the church of Philadelphia who are shielded from the GT, they will be protected right here on earth. The people who make it are promised to rule with Christ and these are the saints of the tribulation in Rev 20:5- so the promise is kept.
What we don't see is the group that flew off at 1 Thess 4 which were promised to be with the Lord forever. We can't trace them in the millennial rule.
t...,
One must discern that among TV programs and scriptures. The pope is also in that group. In this instance stick with The Bible...the rapture to come..... is alive and well.
We see it here;...violation of Rev.22, et al., by those wishing to establish their own legacy.
Remember we are each held responsible by The Bible for proper interpretation of G-d's word.
..."great deceptions"....will be present in the end times. We are there. No one can any longer rely on pastor jones to guide.
S
SpoonJuly
Guest
Three phases of the first resurrection? Where did you come up with that?
Never heard that one before. But, it seems I here something new every day on this site.
The Hebrew harvest had three phases -- the first fruits, the main harvest, and lastly the gleanings. This imagery has been applied to the "First Resurrection" (the resurrection of the just or the righteous). Please note that this is an orderly progression in 1 Cor 15:23,24:
But every man in his own order...
FIRST FRUITS
Christ the firstfruits... (the Resurrection of Christ)
THE MAIN HARVEST
...afterward they that are Christ's at his coming... (the Resurrection/Rapture)
THE GLEANINGS
...Then cometh the end... (the Tribulation Saints)
S
SpoonJuly
Guest
So verse 23 states that Christ was resurrected and likewise the Saints will be resurrected at His coming.
Two different events. Also note that the resurrection of the Saints is at HIS COMING. His second coming to reign for 1000 years on the earth.
Verse 24 says nothing about the resurrection of the Tribulation Saints.
I think you are making the Scripture say what it does not say just to prove you pre-trib rapture belief.
C...,
The word..."Rapture"...is not in the body of language in The Bible. It is man's word to capture the description of the occurrence in The Bible.