Are Holy Spirit baptisms claims provable?

[Waggles]

With regards to not stuttering when speaking ‘tongues’ – this just further illustrates that tongues are produced within the speaker’s subconscious; it’s a phenomenon that requires no conscious effort to produce. It's sort of akin to what happens while dreaming. When a person who stutters dreams, if they Are speaking in their dream, they typically do not stutter

Stuttering is, in part, a result of conscious language production. When engaged in glossolalia, the language production centers of the brain are not overly active as glossolalia is not language. Another reason why a person who stutters when speaking will not do so when engaged in glossolalia; they're not producing actual language.

I don’t think non-stuttering in people who stutter is really all that odd or a sign of anything; another common example is that people who stutter, do not do so when they sing; in fact, many famous singers started off singing as a way to work through childhood stuttering (Elvis Presley is perhaps the best example).

Complete rubbish
Praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit
that is why the stutterer stutters not.

 

[hornetguy]

No offence taken – I would argue the same point though; the fact that Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians redefined particular sections of scripture for themselves to fit their modern phenomenon of tongues has become so ingrained in those that practice them, that it is virtually impossible for them to see tongues as anything but what they perceive them to be.

How do you account for the many other cultures and spiritual paths that practice the exact same thing? Are their ‘tongues’ somehow “demonic” or any less divine than yours? Granted they don’t refer to what they are doing as “tongues”, but that’s just a matter of nomenclature – what Christians call ‘tongues’, New Agers may call ‘light language’, a Shaman may refer to it as ‘spirit’ or ‘totemic’ language, but it’s all the same thing.

Glossolalia is what it is – there’s just nothing a speaker is producing that cannot be explained in natural terms. Conversely, when dealing with something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s).

To the OP’s original question though – I don’t think there is a way to prove a H/S baptism any more than one can prove that one is‘saved’ – there’s no real outward manifestation of either. It’s a matter of one’s faith.

I don’t believe “tongues” proves anything with respect to somehow evidencing H/S baptism; without even taking the nature of ‘tongues’ into consideration, there are too many other passages in the Bible where people are said to be filled with the H/S, yet there is absolutely zero mention of tongues in conjunction with the experience.

Yes... not at the point of "happening". The person doesn't start glowing, or change colors, or anything physical like that. The "proof" of being saved and filled with the Spirit is listed in scripture... the fruits of the Spirit. A believer's life will "prove" that he is saved/Spirit filled.

. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. 24Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

 

[DJ2]

I must say the response to these two simple questions is rather revealing. It seems this subject is not one that many wish to pursue. Why?

I suspect that anyone willing to honestly confront this issue will see that claims of Holy Spirit baptism is like beauty, strictly in the eye of the beholder. This is not to say it does not exist , just that claiming to posses it is simply based on heartfelt feelings and not tangible evidence or scriptual reasoning.

Why is this important? Because many who assert they have recieved this great blessing are prone to assume a degree of assurance in their theology and train of thought. After all, God would never baptize anyone who was not correctly following His commands.

Claiming your Holy Spirit baptism is the Holy Spirit baptism holds no weight in an honest discussion on this serious matter.

To those who are suggesting I am attempting to deny the very existence of Holy Spirit baptism, I would suggest they look deep into there own motivations to write such things when I was clearly speaking of claims of Holy Spirit baptisms not the existence of them.

I sincerely believe that I received the gift of the Holy Spirit myself. I was water immersed into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ at 8:15pm on Nov. 28 1984. But I am honest enough to see that if my theology is wrong my gift of the Holy Spirit may be in question. There is no sacrilege in this thinking, just mature and reasonable inquiry.

 

[Shamah]

I must say the response to these two simple questions is rather revealing. It seems this subject is not one that many wish to pursue. Why?

I suspect that anyone willing to honestly confront this issue will see that claims of Holy Spirit baptism is like beauty, strictly in the eye of the beholder. This is not to say it does not exist , just that claiming to posses it is simply based on heartfelt feelings and not tangible evidence or scriptual reasoning.

Why is this important? Because many who assert they have recieved this great blessing are prone to assume a degree of assurance in their theology and train of thought. After all, God would never baptize anyone who was not correctly following His commands.

Claiming your Holy Spirit baptism is the Holy Spirit baptism holds no weight in an honest discussion on this serious matter.

To those who are suggesting I am attempting to deny the very existence of Holy Spirit baptism, I would suggest they look deep into there own motivations to write such things when I was clearly speaking of claims of Holy Spirit baptisms not the existence of them.

I sincerely believe that I received the gift of the Holy Spirit myself. I was water immersed into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ at 8:15pm on Nov. 28 1984. But I am honest enough to see that if my theology is wrong my gift of the Holy Spirit may be in question. There is no sacrilege in this thinking, just mature and reasonable inquiry.

Do you beleive that anyone who has been naptized by the Holy Spirit of YHWH would then show some of these traits? I'm not saying before, but once He has begun to put His Spirit upon us.

I would say only YHWH knows, but with that said I think anyone who has had baptisim by the spirit of YHWH would in some way, with varying degrees reflect this:

Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."

Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master יהוה.”

Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Mat 7:15-20, “But beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are savage wolves. By their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles? So every good tree yields good fruit, but a rotten tree yields wicked fruit. A good tree is unable to yield wicked fruit, and a rotten tree to yield good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. So then, by their fruits you shall know them.”

1 John 3:24, “And the one guarding His commands stays in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He stays in us, by the Spirit which He gave us.”

Exodus 13:9, “And it shall be as a *sign to you on your hand and as a reminder between your eyes, that the Torah (Instructions/Law) of יהוה is to be in your mouth, for with a strong hand יהוה has brought you out of Mitsrayim.”

The word *Sign is word #H226 – owth from Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, Hebrew Dictionary: meaning mark, token, sign, consent, flag, evidence of consent.

2 Timothy 2:19, “However, the solid foundation of Yah stands firm, having this seal*, “ יהוה knows those who are His, Let everyone who names the Name of Messiah turn away from unrighteousness.”

Strong's Concordance *"seal"is word #G4973 - sphragis: a seal, a signet, Original Word: σφραγίς, ῖδος, ἡ, Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine, Transliteration: sphragis, Phonetic Spelling: (sfrag-ece'), Short Definition: a signet-ring, impression of a seal, the proof, Definition: a seal, signet ring, the impression of a seal, that which the seal attests, the proof.

 

[Blain]

I think that I agree that DJ's op is a very valid question. I mean how many people claim to be prophets and yet when you confront them about it go berserk and are like how dare you question me? How many claim to be teaching and speaking the truth here on cc alone and yet all you really see is people attacking others who disagree with them? How many claim to have received a dream or vision or have understood a revelation of some kind when it was really just an ordinary dream or a figment of their own imagination?

It seems right to question and test the spirit of an event as important as the baptism of the holy spirit. For instance in mine the very night I received God into my heart I did in fact receive one of those supernatural baptisms in which I was consumed in a blazing fire filled with his power and life itself, whether or not that was the baptism of the holy spirit depends on the person, I do believe what I went through was the baptism of the holy spirit but I also believe that even just receiving the holy spirit into our hearts is in fact the baptism of the holy spirit as well. Just because mine was like a blazing fire doesn't mean that any one else's was less than the same thing.

I never spoke in tongues in my entire life so some who believe that tongues is required as proof might say I never received it to begin with. But as to if it can be proven perhaps the only real way to know is not to look at the event itself but rather if you can see the holy spirit in their words and actions. Sometimes the only way to understand and prove a cause is to understand and prove the effect of it

 

[nddreamer]

My experience was totally different. Think of your body being an empty vessel that was slowly being filled. That's what it felt like. I could feel it coming up my legs at the same level and then the rest of my body. It was really the strangest sensation. How does he do that? How does he control every cell in your body to achieve that sensation within the individual? It was so crazy! Maybe with some of us he just likes to shock and awe. It could be because I like to question everything which often plants a seed of doubt. After that experience, my doubtometer was shut down. That happened decades ago and I'm still stunned. How in the heck does he do that?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

No offence taken – I would argue the same point though; the fact that Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians redefined particular sections of scripture for themselves to fit their modern phenomenon of tongues has become so ingrained in those that practice them, that it is virtually impossible for them to see tongues as anything but what they perceive them to be.

How do you account for the many other cultures and spiritual paths that practice the exact same thing? Are their ‘tongues’ somehow “demonic” or any less divine than yours? Granted they don’t refer to what they are doing as “tongues”, but that’s just a matter of nomenclature – what Christians call ‘tongues’, New Agers may call ‘light language’, a Shaman may refer to it as ‘spirit’ or ‘totemic’ language, but it’s all the same thing.

Glossolalia is what it is – there’s just nothing a speaker is producing that cannot be explained in natural terms. Conversely, when dealing with something spoken, there are absolutely no Biblical references to “tongues” that do not refer to, and cannot be explained in light of, real rational language(s).

To the OP’s original question though – I don’t think there is a way to prove a H/S baptism any more than one can prove that one is‘saved’ – there’s no real outward manifestation of either. It’s a matter of one’s faith.

I don’t believe “tongues” proves anything with respect to somehow evidencing H/S baptism; without even taking the nature of ‘tongues’ into consideration, there are too many other passages in the Bible where people are said to be filled with the H/S, yet there is absolutely zero mention of tongues in conjunction with the experience.

I would ask why you are comparing pagans, witch doctors, wiccans, etc to Christian tongues?

it's not all the same thing. there are demonic tongues and also just pretense

I would suggest, again, that you are not equipped to determine which is which

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I must say the response to these two simple questions is rather revealing. It seems this subject is not one that many wish to pursue. Why?

I suspect that anyone willing to honestly confront this issue will see that claims of Holy Spirit baptism is like beauty, strictly in the eye of the beholder. This is not to say it does not exist , just that claiming to posses it is simply based on heartfelt feelings and not tangible evidence or scriptual reasoning.

Why is this important? Because many who assert they have recieved this great blessing are prone to assume a degree of assurance in their theology and train of thought. After all, God would never baptize anyone who was not correctly following His commands.

Claiming your Holy Spirit baptism is the Holy Spirit baptism holds no weight in an honest discussion on this serious matter.

To those who are suggesting I am attempting to deny the very existence of Holy Spirit baptism, I would suggest they look deep into there own motivations to write such things when I was clearly speaking of claims of Holy Spirit baptisms not the existence of them.

I sincerely believe that I received the gift of the Holy Spirit myself. I was water immersed into the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ at 8:15pm on Nov. 28 1984. But I am honest enough to see that if my theology is wrong my gift of the Holy Spirit may be in question. There is no sacrilege in this thinking, just mature and reasonable inquiry.

as was the original op

I would suggest you look deep into your motives for asking such a thing in the first place other than the obvious motive, which several here have pointed out

as everyone but you comes out a stinker in your eyes, I think we have our answer

 

[JaumeJ]

Someone has posted, repeated, the advice from theWord to "prove all things," stressing we must use the written word to accomplish this.

Here is a perfect example of not understanding the Word by the Holy Spirit for it is written the written word kills, only the Holy Spirit will give life to it............All who understand by means of the Holy Spirit know this..no, they do not know the Word perfectly from Genesis to the end of Revelation, but they know and understand Salvation in Jesus Christ. This is all any need know.

 

[Waggles]

Wow so many opinions; so many possibilities;
so many maybes; could be; this happened to me;
I felt such and such; I'm not sure what happened but
it felt pretty amazing ...

And yet God always has only one way according to
his commandments; according to scripture:

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope
of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all,
and in you all.
Ephesians 4:

one way
and how does Jesus himself present this one way?
He tells us directly how it is and by what manner we all shall know
with confidence and all be of one accord:

15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the
gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth
not shall be damned.
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they
cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing,
it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
Mark 16:

There you have it. Simple. Straightforward. Even uneducated
fishermen can do it.

37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart,
and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren,
what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of
you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall
receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are
afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
Acts 2:

One baptism two elements: water and Spirit (John 3)
how do I know with 100% confidence that I have done
this by God's standards?
Exactly the same as the gospel and the first church
they all spoke in tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance. [SUB][/SUB]

 

[notuptome]

Complete rubbish
Praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit
that is why the stutterer stutters not.

Unless it's a known tongue you would have no way to tell.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JaumeJ]

According to the teaching in the Word, a person who is gifted to pray in tongues oft time does not have a clue as to what he or she is saying however this is just fine for he is prayig toGod. It is like when the Holy Spirit intervenes in our prayers with a deep sigh because we have something in our heart to impart to our Father but we cannot utter it in words....it is the Holy Spirit giving utterance. The sigh, itself, is tongues ....check the Word, and you will find it written.

Now the gift of praying in tongues is persona, so one should not pray loudly in assembly unless there is someone else with the gift of interpreting......Without such, the one praying is just being disruptive. Read all about it in the Word..

 

[hornetguy]

I would ask why you are comparing pagans, witch doctors, wiccans, etc to Christian tongues?

it's not all the same thing. there are demonic tongues and also just pretense

I would suggest, again, that you are not equipped to determine which is which

I disagree a little bit with your last statement... I think God equips us through the Spirit to determine things like that...
From 1 John...

4 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. [SUP]2 [/SUP]By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; [SUP]3 [/SUP]and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world.

I'm not sure that simply confessing that Jesus came in the flesh is the only test, but I think it's a start. We also need to rely on our "gut" instinct, which I firmly believe is the Spirit working in us.

I try to be discerning, but also open-minded to things that I have not personally experienced... sort of "cautiously accepting", if you will.

 

[Kavik]

Waggles –
Complete rubbish
Praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit
that is why the stutterer stutters not.

I would have to respectfully strongly disagree.

The nature of glossolalia (modern ‘tongues’) and how it is produced, can completely account for how a person who stutters does not when engaging in glossolalia. Further, when a stutterer sings and does not stutter, I’m pretty sure the Holy Spirit is not the reason they are able to do so.

Again, I’m not knocking the “tongues experience” – as the tool they are, modern tongues (as well as glossolalia as practiced in other cultures), can be quite powerful. The actual ‘tongue’ itself however, is completely self-created.

The term “praying in the Holy Spirit” not refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying.

In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' (“tongues”) in connection with this phrase.

“Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phrase has essentially been redefined to fit the modern tongues phenomenon and thus, for this group of Christians, when one “prays in the Spirit”, one is typically engaged in some form of tongues-speech.


7seasrekeyed –
I would ask why you are comparing pagans, witch doctors, wiccans, etc to Christian tongues?

it's not all the same thing. there are demonic tongues and also just pretense

I would suggest, again, that you are not equipped to determine which is which


Because what all three are producing is the exact same thing, produced in the exact same way; there just isn’t any way of getting around that fact. It’s not what most Christian practitioners like to hear because they tend to believe that what they are doing is something completely unique; but they're not.

Just because other forms and practices of glossolalia do not adhere to the specific criteria of your religion does not somehow automatically equate with them being “demonic”; that’s religiocentrism in the extreme. The fact is, that other cultures are doing the same thing you are, and have been doing it for thousands of years before Christianity started the practice a mere 150 or so years ago.

I would argue that there is absolutely nothing to differentiate, keeping in mind, of course, that how glossolalia is practiced in various traditions is obviously not going to be the same way Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians practice it – again though, just because it’s different from yours, does not make theirs any less divine, spiritual, or real.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

I disagree a little bit with your last statement... I think God equips us through the Spirit to determine things like that...
From 1 John...



I'm not sure that simply confessing that Jesus came in the flesh is the only test, but I think it's a start. We also need to rely on our "gut" instinct, which I firmly believe is the Spirit working in us.

I try to be discerning, but also open-minded to things that I have not personally experienced... sort of "cautiously accepting", if you will.

kavik is not a Christian...and I addressed him with that understandig

I indicated that in my posts to him

so, he cannot determine anything by the Holy Spirit as he does not have the Holy Spirit

otherwise yes, of course, with regards to your comment

the second quote is not mine...but it looks like mine as you didn't post the name

no worries...

 

[7seasrekeyed]

Waggles –
Complete rubbish
Praying in tongues is praying in the Holy Spirit
that is why the stutterer stutters not.

I would have to respectfully strongly disagree.

The nature of glossolalia (modern ‘tongues’) and how it is produced, can completely account for how a person who stutters does not when engaging in glossolalia. Further, when a stutterer sings and does not stutter, I’m pretty sure the Holy Spirit is not the reason they are able to do so.

Again, I’m not knocking the “tongues experience” – as the tool they are, modern tongues (as well as glossolalia as practiced in other cultures), can be quite powerful. The actual ‘tongue’ itself however, is completely self-created.

The term “praying in the Holy Spirit” not refer to the words one is saying. Rather, it refers to how one is praying.

In the three places it is used (Corinthians, Ephesians, and Jude), there is absolutely zero reference to 'languages' (“tongues”) in connection with this phrase.

“Praying in the Spirit” should be understood as praying in the power of the Spirit, by the leading of the Spirit, and according to His will. In Pentecostal/Charismatic parlance however, the phrase has essentially been redefined to fit the modern tongues phenomenon and thus, for this group of Christians, when one “prays in the Spirit”, one is typically engaged in some form of tongues-speech.


7seasrekeyed –
I would ask why you are comparing pagans, witch doctors, wiccans, etc to Christian tongues?

it's not all the same thing. there are demonic tongues and also just pretense

I would suggest, again, that you are not equipped to determine which is which


Because what all three are producing is the exact same thing, produced in the exact same way; there just isn’t any way of getting around that fact. It’s not what most Christian practitioners like to hear because they tend to believe that what they are doing is something completely unique; but they're not.

Just because other forms and practices of glossolalia do not adhere to the specific criteria of your religion does not somehow automatically equate with them being “demonic”; that’s religiocentrism in the extreme. The fact is, that other cultures are doing the same thing you are, and have been doing it for thousands of years before Christianity started the practice a mere 150 or so years ago.

I would argue that there is absolutely nothing to differentiate, keeping in mind, of course, that how glossolalia is practiced in various traditions is obviously not going to be the same way Pentecostal/Charismatic Christians practice it – again though, just because it’s different from yours, does not make theirs any less divine, spiritual, or real.

I would say that you believe you can figure God out with your mind

you cannot

if one is speaking in a demonic tongue, that is hardly the Holy Spirit

do you believe the devil exists?

we are not talking about the same things and you are not going to understand what I write but I do understand what you are saying

it seems the only posts you make here (maybe I'm wrong...but those are the only ones I seem to see) are about tongues and in those posts you do what you are doing here

do you have any other things to say?

you say the same things over and over and so do I in my responses to you...as do others

if your desire is to convince Christians that are filled with the Spirit of God that they are not filled with God's Spirit, you are never going to do that

so, kindly look at my responses for further communication because they are not going to change...if you decide to accept Jesus as your Savior, you will have a different understanding

 

[notuptome]

According to the teaching in the Word, a person who is gifted to pray in tongues oft time does not have a clue as to what he or she is saying however this is just fine for he is prayig toGod. It is like when the Holy Spirit intervenes in our prayers with a deep sigh because we have something in our heart to impart to our Father but we cannot utter it in words....it is the Holy Spirit giving utterance. The sigh, itself, is tongues ....check the Word, and you will find it written.

Now the gift of praying in tongues is persona, so one should not pray loudly in assembly unless there is someone else with the gift of interpreting......Without such, the one praying is just being disruptive. Read all about it in the Word..

Scripture does not teach nor encourage praying without knowledge. Nothing to Jewish believers or teachers would give them any reason to want to pray without knowledge. They would have seen praying without knowledge as empty or vain just like the prayers of the pagan worshippers around them.

Praying without knowledge is praying in the will of man and not in the Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[JaumeJ]

Perhaps you have not read the same scriptures I have read in the New Testametn on the subject........

It , and I praphrase here, does teach when we cannot find the words we would like to express our deepest spiritual feelings, the Holy Spirit intervenes with a sigh expressing without words but a sigh what is intended......so it is with speaking in an unknown tongue.

Now, use your noggin here. if the Scripture teaches one must not speak in tongues in the congregation unless there is someone elsto interpret, it stands to even human logic that the one speakingintonges is not able to interpret.

So it is when one prays in tongues. the desire to express oneself is satisfied by teh HOly Spirit when uttering the unknown tongue in prayer.

It makes perfect sense to me, but I am easy I suppose in that regard.

 

[Kavik]

I would say that you believe you can figure God out with your mind

you cannot

You are quite mistaken – I do not assume that at all.

if one is speaking in a demonic tongue, that is hardly the Holy Spirit

If I may ask, what to you constitutes a “demonic tongue”, what makes it ‘demonic’??? I’d be curious to know. Can you provide a current example/reference?

do you believe the devil exists?

Pure evil certainly exists just as pure good does.

we are not talking about the same things and you are not going to understand what I write but I do understand what you are saying

Only to you. Based upon your understanding of tongues, they can only be different things. I certainly understand what you’re writing. You, like many others, tend to describe the experience; the actual ‘tongue’ is hardly ever really looked at.

it seems the only posts you make here (maybe I'm wrong...but those are the only ones I seem to see) are about tongues and in those posts you do what you are doing here

do you have any other things to say?

you say the same things over and over and so do I in my responses to you...as do others

I do post on other topics, but my primary interest is the phenomenon of “tongues”. I don’t see where having a concentrated interest in a particular (Biblical) subject is an issue. I’m pretty sure I’m not the only person who primarily posts on subjects of particular interest.

if your desire is to convince Christians that are filled with the Spirit of God that they are not filled with God's Spirit, you are never going to do that

I’m not sure where you’re getting that; I’m certainly not trying to convince anybody that they are not filled with God’s Spirit.

And, yes, I suppose I tend to argue various points about ‘tongues’ more than other topics.

As I’ve likely said before somewhere on this forum, some people are quick to tell me that I am trying to ‘explain/understand the spiritual in earthly terms’, or something along those lines.

Indeed, there are many things in religion that must be taken on faith; they can neither be proved nor can they be disproved. ‘Tongues’ is just not one of these things; it is something very tangible which can be, and has been, studied on many different levels across many different disciplines; mine happens to be linguistics.

If “tongues” were a supernatural phenomenon (don't misunderstand here - I refer to 'tongues" themselves, not the 'tongues experience'), it seems reasonable to suggest that some sort of scientific account or explanation of the behavior would not be possible, or at least extremely difficult at best. Yet, this is quite obviously not the case.

so, kindly look at my responses for further communication because they are not going to change...if you decide to accept Jesus as your Savior, you will have a different understanding

I’m not trying to change your responses. No, I don’t think so – glossolalia is what it is.

 

[JaumeJ]

When a friend of mine had just received the Holy Spirit, whe was sitting quite primly in the midst of various brothers and sisters. I came near her and snsed the wonderous presence of God, and I knew because of the Spirit in me taht she was being blessed. All she could do was sit there with the most serene look abut her, and all I could do was keep repeating, "You are blessed, you are blessed."

Had he some kind of demonic influence going on, all in the assembly would have known or indicated......she was blessed.

The same is with the gifts, if someone isgifted, GÇod lets all who believe know it.......i The great doubt of even considering that demons are unknown whencoming amongst believers is the pointer to no faith.

God keeps all He saves safe until His great day.