Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Most of the drivel you post out of context can be refuted easily....like JESUS becoming a curse for us.....
YOU DO NOT REFUTE. YOU REJECT THE TRUTH.

New International Version 1984 Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THE LORD JESUS "CURSED",

Luke 6:45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
YOU DO NOT REFUTE. YOU REJECT THE TRUTH.

New International Version 1984 Isaiah 5:20-24 Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter. Woe to those who are wise in their own eyes and clever in their own sight. Woe to those who are heroes at drinking wine and champions at mixing drinks, who acquit the guilty for a bribe, but deny justice to the innocent. Therefore, as tongues of fire lick up straw and as dry grass sinks down in the flames, so their roots will decay and their flowers blow away like dust; for they have rejected the law of the Lord Almighty and spurned the word of the Holy One of Israel.

WOE TO THOSE WHO CALL THE LORD JESUS "CURSED",

Luke 6:45 The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks.

Galatians 6:7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.

...LET GOD BE TRUE AND EVERY MAN A LIAR.
Was all of that really necessary?

230E976A-7564-44F3-A30E-AF3D14C12F56.jpeg
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
this together


clearly shows

we not only arent saved by works

those who believe we are saved by works

have not yet submitted to the righteousness of God

and seek to establish their own.....


not only this

it clearly shows we WERE dead in sin before being born again

and NOW are quickened (made alive....)

2227. zóopoieó ►
Strong's Concordance
zóopoieó: to make alive
Original Word: ζῳοποιέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: zóopoieó
Phonetic Spelling: (dzo-op-oy-eh'-o)
Short Definition: I make to live
Definition: I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken.


seohce

you spend your days attacking Gods children

pointing to works



please

stop this

you are functioning as a wolf...

not a sheep

no sugar coated words
or self deception will help you here


you need to submit to Christ

please take one night

say " God.... please...
i do not want any false doctrines
i dont want itching ears or a puffed up chest
i dont want to be at war with you

i want to be in your kingdom God
if i look like a fool for a season because of my error.... then make me a fool

i just want truth God

YOUR truth

i need to see what you want me to see

i know Jesus is Lord... i know i am not all knowing
but i know YOU ARE... please open my eyes
provide me assurance
peace
joy

even if it hurts at first.... i need to know the truth"


paraphrasing...

but please pray for truth ...
originally posted by Seohce


WERE YOU SENT BY GOD?

Luke 6:43-45 A Tree and Its Fruit “No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. FOR OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF HIS HEART , HIS MOUTH SPEAKS..

WHO ARE CLAIMING TO BE “STILL SINNERS” OUT OF THE OVERFLOW OF THEIR HEART???

John 3:34 For the one whom GOD HAS SENT speaks the words of God,
for God gives the Spirit without limit.



This thread and it’s author implies that there’s no need for works to a FAITH ALONE that SAVES(faith void of works).

SALVATION IS NOT BY WORKS IF IT’S APART FROM FAITH (eph 2:8-9) JUST AS FAITH ALONE APART FROM WORKS OF LOVE,OBEDIENCE AND FAITH IS DEAD (james 2:14-26)

IF WE ARE THE BODY OF CHRIST WHOM HE WILL SAVE (eph 5:23) AREN’T WE EXPECTED TO OBEY HIS COMMANDS (john 14:12-15)AND DO HIS WORKS OF SALVATION (1cor 3:9, 12:28 mat 25:21-30, 9:37-38 eph 4:12-13, rom 12: 3-8, 1 tim 4:16) AS WE ARE TO DO HIS WILL HERE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN (mat 6:10)

John 4:34-38 “My food,” said Jesus, “is TO DO THE WILL OF HIM WHO SENT ME AND TO FINISH HIS WORK. Do you not say, ‘Four months more and then the harvest’? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest. Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now HE HARVESTS THE CROP FOR ETERNAL LIFE, so that the sower and the reaper may be GLAD TOGETHER. Thus the saying ‘One sows and another reaps’ is true. I SENT YOU to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and YOU HAVE REAPED THE BENEFITS OF THEIR LABOR.”

John 5:36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and WHICH I AM DOING, TESTIFIES that the Father has SENT me.

John 6:39-40 And this is the will of him who SENT me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day. For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and BELIEVES IN HIM, SHALL HAVE ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up at the last day.”

John 7:18 HE WHO SPEAKS ON HIS OWN does so to gain honor for himself, but HE WHO WORKS FOR THE HONOR OF THE ONE WHO SENT HIM IS A MAN OF TRUTH; there is nothing false about him.

John 9:4-5 As long as it is day, WE MUST DO THE WORK OF HIM WHO SENT ME. Night is coming, when no one can work. While I am in the world, I am the light of the world.”

John 17:18 As you sent me into the world, I have SENT THEM into the world.

John 20:21-22 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I AM SENDING YOU.” And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 28:19-20 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and TEACHING THEM TO OBEY EVERYTHING I HAVE COMMANDED YOU. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

ONE SURE WAY TO RECOGNIZE THOSE WHO WERE NOT SENT ACCORDING TO THE VERSES ABOVE IS TO KNOW WHAT THEY DO.

DO THEY PREACH AGAINST THE WORKS THAT GOD HAS PREPARED IN ADVANCE FOR US TO DO BY SAYING THAT: “FAITH ALONE SAVES AND IT IS VOID OF WORKS.”?

DO THEY PREACH THAT; “WORKS ARE WORKS ARE WORKS.”?
THAT OBEDIENCE TO GOD’S COMMANDMENTS CANNOT SAVE EVEN THOSE BELIEVERS WHO CONFESS WITH THEIR MOUTHS THAT JESUS IS LORD AND BELIEVE IN THEIR HEARTS THAT GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD.

DO THEY PREACH THAT SINCE THEY WERE ALREADY SAVED, THEY WILL ALWAYS BE SAVED REGARDLESS OF THEIR WILLFUL AND CONTINUOUS SINNING(manifested by their arguments against those who push for continuous faith and are against willful sinning).

DO THEY PROMOTE SIN BY SAYING THAT THOSE WHO ARE CLAIMING THAT THOSE BORN AGAIN IN THE SPIRIT IS A NEW CREATION AND THEREFORE MUST NOT SIN OR CEASE FROM SINNING, ARE LIARS ACCDG. TO 1JOHN 1:8 WHICH THEY LOVE TO QUOTE BUT REJECTING THE WHOLE TRUTH EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE? WHICH ONLY PROVES THIS VERSES BELOW TO BE TRUE:

Romans 8:5-9 Those who live according to the sinful nature have their minds set on what that nature desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds SET ON WHAT THE SPIRIT DESIRES. The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace; the sinful mind is hostile to God. IT DOES NOT SUBMIT TO GOD’S LAW, nor can it do so. Those controlled by the sinful nature cannot please God. You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, HE DOES NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

WOULD THE SPIRIT OF GOD DESIRE SIN?

Galatians 2:17-18 “If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes EVIDENT that we ourselves are SINNERS, does that mean that Christ PROMOTES SIN? Absolutely not! If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker.

Romans 6:15 What then? SHALL WE SIN because we are not under law but under grace? By no means!

1 Corinthians 6:17 But he who unites himself with the Lord is ONE WITH HIM IN SPIRIT.

John 16:13 But when he, THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.

1 Corinthians 6:9-11,15-20 Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? DO NOT BE DECEIVED: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. AND THAT IS WHAT SOME OF YOU WERE. But you were WASHED, you were SANCTIFIED, you were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God. Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, “The two will become one flesh.” But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit. Flee from sexual immorality. All other sins a man commits are outside his body, but he who sins sexually sins against his own body. Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

Galatians 6:7-8 DO NOT BE DECEIVED, GOD CANNOT BE MOCKED. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.

1 John 2:3-6 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

John 14:31 but the world must learn that I love the Father and that I DO EXACTLY WHAT .MY FATHER HAS COMMANDED ME. “Come now; let us leave.

Romans 5:8 But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were STILL SINNERS, Christ died for us.

Romans 6:21-23 What benefit did you reap at that time from the things you are now ASHAMED OF? Those things result in death! But NOW that you have been SET FREE FROM SIN and have become slaves to God, the benefit you reap leads to HOLINESS, and the result is ETERNAL LIFE. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life IN CHRIST JESUS OUR LORD.

Romans 1:32 Although they know God’s righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only CONTINUE TO DO these very things but also APPROVE of those who practice them.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin. Now, however, they have no excuse for their sin.

Psalm 49:13-14 This is the fate of those who trust in themselves, and of THEIR FOLLOWERS, who APPROVE their sayings. Selah Like sheep they are destined for the grave, and death will feed on them. The upright will rule over them in the morning; their forms will decay in the grave, far from their princely mansions.

THEREFORE:

Romans 10:14-15 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? AND HOW CAN THEY PREACH UNLESS THEY ARE SENT? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
No. This thread teaches faith alone saves. And salvation produces good works. And what’s crazy to me, is that people who teach you MUST have good works to be saved rarely do. They are often argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love. Scripture teaches us to avoid them. We are to avoid people who have no fruit of their own message. Let me just blow up any self-righteous mindsets now. Teaching people they need good works is not going to make anyone righteous before the Lord. And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc. we demand of others, we might want to stop trying to teach and start seeking to learn.
 
Last edited:

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
It might contribute to this discussion if we add James chapter 2 to understand the context he's sharing regarding the whole law. Is James's point that it's impossible to keep the whole law, or is he making another point?


---

James 2:1-12 (Berean)

1 My brothers, as you hold out your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ, do not show favoritism.


2 Suppose a man comes into your meeting wearing a gold ring and fine clothes, and a poor man in shabby clothes also comes in. If you lavish attention on the man in fine clothes and say, “Here is a seat of honor,” but say to the poor man “You must stand,” or, “Sit at my feet,” have you not discriminated among yourselves and become judges with evil thoughts?


5 Listen, my beloved brothers: Has not God chosen the poor of this world to be rich in faith and to inherit the kingdom He promised those who love Him? But you have dishonored the poor. Is it not the rich who oppress you and drag you into court?Are they not the ones who blaspheme the noble Name by which you have been called?


8 If you really keep the royal law stated in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors.


10 Whoever keeps the whole Law but stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery, but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker.


12 Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the Law that gives freedom. For judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment.

---

What's James saying here? Are these words mistranslated?
His point comes at the end of the chapter.

James 2 AMPC

14 What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?
15 If a brother or sister is poorly clad and lacks food for each day,
16 And one of you says to him, Good-bye! Keep [yourself] warm and well fed, without giving him the necessities for the body, what good does that do?
17 So also faith, if it does not have works (deeds and actions of obedience to back it up), by itself is destitute of power (inoperative, dead).
18 But someone will say [to you then], You [say you] have faith, and I have [good] works. Now you show me your [alleged] faith apart from any [good] works [if you can], and I by [good] works [of obedience] will show you my faith.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
No. This thread teaches faith alone saves. And salvation produces good works. And what’s crazy to me, is that people who teach you MUST have good works to be saved rarely do. They are often argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love. Scripture teaches us to avoid them. We are to avoid people who have no fruit of their own message. Let me just blow up any self-righteous mindsets now. Teaching people they need good works is not going to make anyone righteous before the Lord. And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc. we demand of others, we might want to stop trying to teach and start seeking to learn.
The differences of opinion center around the highlighted part of your post.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
No. This thread teaches faith alone saves. And salvation produces good works. And what’s crazy to me, is that people who teach you MUST have good works to be saved rarely do. They are often argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love. Scripture teaches us to avoid them. We are to avoid people who have no fruit of their own message. Let me just blow up any self-righteous mindsets now. Teaching people they need good works is not going to make anyone righteous before the Lord. And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc. we demand of others, we might want to stop trying to teach and start seeking to learn.
amen....

well said
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
I'm here to proclaim works is the only way to get saved. The following is one of my works.

I have a bridge I can sell you. It is in Brooklyn. Cheap at the price. You can set up toll booths to make more than you buy it for.

PS: It is not the case that if the antecedent is true the consequent is false. Let's see who understands logic.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
New International Version 1984 Matthew 13:11-15 He replied, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. This is why I speak to them in parables: “Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand. In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah: “‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving. For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’

2 Timothy 3:7 always learning but never able to acknowledge the truth.
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
Without being covered in Jesus' Blood, we are all guilty of breaking the law. However, while we still sin in the flesh after salvation, in God's Eyes, we are holy and blameless.

Amen sis, amen!
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
No. This thread teaches faith alone saves. And salvation produces good works. And what’s crazy to me, is that people who teach you MUST have good works to be saved rarely do. They are often argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love. Scripture teaches us to avoid them. We are to avoid people who have no fruit of their own message. Let me just blow up any self-righteous mindsets now. Teaching people they need good works is not going to make anyone righteous before the Lord. And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc. we demand of others, we might want to stop trying to teach and start seeking to learn.

Amen to this
 

Studyman

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2017
3,570
516
113
No. This thread teaches faith alone saves. And salvation produces good works. And what’s crazy to me, is that people who teach you MUST have good works to be saved rarely do. They are often argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love. Scripture teaches us to avoid them. We are to avoid people who have no fruit of their own message. Let me just blow up any self-righteous mindsets now. Teaching people they need good works is not going to make anyone righteous before the Lord. And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc. we demand of others, we might want to stop trying to teach and start seeking to learn.
"Learning" is what a Bible discussion should be about. But sadly, many use this Bible Discussion forum as a platform to promote their religious belief, or their religion.

It's always, "I know the truth, it's that other guy who is deceived".

I appreciate your sentiment, and honesty, but you are missing something I fear.

And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc.
This is the problem, in my opinion. People create what they call "OUR GOSPEL" after what they have in their mind, according to the religious franchise they belong to, or the religion they were born into. People it seems really don't believe the Word which became Flesh as He is written about. They create their own version of the Word, and preach it. They certainly don't take seriously all the warnings Jesus gave us regarding "Christians" who "SHALL" deceive many. And the religious beliefs are as "many" as there are churches. So for me, I really work to "seek" His Kingdom as it is, not as how the "MANY" who come in His Name with "THEIR" gospel see it or preach it.

For instance you say
And if our gospel doesn’t produce HIS good works of peace, love, joy, etc.
But He said:

Luke 12:51 Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:52 For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

You say:
They are often argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love.
And this certainly could be true. But how do you judge this? Do you make this judgment based on Your gospel?

What example did Jesus give us when confronting the Mainstream Religious body of His Time?

"7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."

"But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in."

This does seem "argumentative, divisive, and completely lacking in love" does it not? When you say His "works" of Peace, Love and Joy is this what you mean? Or have you created your own version of His Gospel?

These words are not meant to insult or offend, rather, as His Love from one grown man to another, and in HIS teaching. Are we looking to defend what "WE" believe, or are we working to understand the Scriptures as they are written? I think this is a valid question given the examples written for our admonition.

Are we to choose the path of least resistance? Can we create our own Biblical reality?

And what should we do if someone, a nobody, points out in God's Word that we may be mistaken about something? The Bible gives us two examples of that exact question.

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.
54 When they heard these things, they were cut to the heart, and they gnashed on him with their teeth.

This is one way the Mainstream Preachers and those following them responded to the Biblical truth shown to them.

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

This is the other way.

Are people willing to give up their religion for God? Most are not as the scriptures clearly show, but some are.

On the topic of the thread it seems like a no brainer to me.

We are saved by Grace through Faith, (Not by Grace alone) and not by any works we have done. But what is Faith? Can we have Grace without it?

The Bible says that Faith is dead without works. Abraham had Faith, how was this faith discerned? Was it not because He trusted God enough to follow His instructions? And this "trust" followed by "works of trust" was called Faith. In other words, Abraham show his belief in the Word which became Flesh, by doing as He instructed.

Is this not a true statement?

Did Abraham follow his father's religion? Some man or preacher? Or were his "Works" the works God created for him to walk in? Eve was also given instruction from God, but she was convinced by someone, who used parts of God's Word, into rejecting His Instructions.

So I believe the scriptures.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Would "GRACE" had been given to Abraham if he didn't trust God enough to follow His Instructions which confirmed his Faith? Abraham was given Grace, Sodom wasn't. What does the Bible say the reason for this was?

9 Not of (mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God (Not Man) hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (As Abraham did and was called "the friend of God")


It seems to me this should mean the same thing regardless of religious tradition, regardless of whether we "believe" or not.

As Paul said:

3 For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

So I agree that we should learn. But learn what? That this religious doctrine is right, or that religious tradition is right?

Or do we trust in the Word which became Flesh, and follow His instructions even if the religions of today don't?
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
ASK JESUS.....those who work for it will not make the final cut....
Is seeking to do His will "working"?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Psalm 103:19-21, "[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]has established His throne in the heavens, And His reign shall rule over all. Bless [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], you His messengers, Mighty in power, who do His Word, Listening to the voice of His Word. Bless [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif], all you His hosts, You His servants, who do His pleasure."[/FONT]
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
The differences of opinion center around the highlighted part of your post.

Not hardly.....the difference is people saying works are REQUIRED to gain, keep or top off salvation........and it is obvious that most, including yourself reject the truth that ALL who are genuinely saved by FAITH ALONE have already done the WORK of the Heavenly FATHER........

This is the work of the Heavenly Father--->THAT you BELIEVE on HIM whom he hath SENT!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Is seeking to do His will "working"?

Psalm 103:19-21, "יהוה has established His throne in the heavens, And His reign shall rule over all. Bless יהוה, you His messengers, Mighty in power, who do His Word, Listening to the voice of His Word. Bless יהוה, all you His hosts, You His servants, who do His pleasure."
You can quote the entire OT, push works, law keeping and obedience until your blue in the face and it will not change the fact that the LAW and the PROPHETS were until JOHN.....the death of JESUS ratified the NEW COVENANT of GRACE.

NO amount of works, legalism, spiritual hoop jumping, religious deeds, supposed law keeping, etc. will ever save a man or ADD 1 micro gram of SALVATION to that which is already freely given by GRACE through faith......
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
well im not sure where you are


but no need to worry about the score
(trust me... our scores all added up together isn't enough to make the board... let alone win the game)
;)

Jesus won already



(He allows whosoever to join Him in victory
...... by grace through faith...)