Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances
- Thread starter PS
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Are you saying the Ten Commandments that forbid things like idol worship, having other gods, and murder were nailed to the cross?
Of course the Ten Commandments were not nailed to the cross.
the burden of proof is in your shoulder dear, you the one that make statement that weekly sabbath law was before sin, where is a verse that say God ask Adam in the garden of Eden not to work in Saturday, they aren't need to work in the Mc Donald like us
there is plenty of food in the garden. Is a matter of fact, God wrote 10 C in Moses time
Born: c. 1392 B.C.E.
Egypt
Died: c. 1272 B.C.E.
Moab, Syria
Read more: Moses Biography - life, childhood, children, story, death, son, book, old, information, born, tall
more than 2000 years after sin. How you say God give this law before sin.
there is plenty of food in the garden. Is a matter of fact, God wrote 10 C in Moses time
Born: c. 1392 B.C.E.
Egypt
Died: c. 1272 B.C.E.
Moab, Syria
Read more: Moses Biography - life, childhood, children, story, death, son, book, old, information, born, tall
more than 2000 years after sin. How you say God give this law before sin.
=eternally-gratefull;3524556]
I agree with you about commentaries. Most people use them to promote religious beliefs that the Bible does not support.
That explains a lot, and is certainly the foundation of our disagreement. The Bible certainly doesn't teach that Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, created instructions which are against us. The Bible teaches just the opposite.
The Word which became Flesh said:
Ex. 20:2 I (The Word which became Flesh) am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,(Sin) out of the house of bondage. (Deception)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
I can't see how this Law is against us.
I agree with you about commentaries. Most people use them to promote religious beliefs that the Bible does not support.
That explains a lot, and is certainly the foundation of our disagreement. The Bible certainly doesn't teach that Jesus, the Word which became Flesh, created instructions which are against us. The Bible teaches just the opposite.
The Word which became Flesh said:
Ex. 20:2 I (The Word which became Flesh) am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt,(Sin) out of the house of bondage. (Deception)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
I can't see how this Law is against us.
you say you have rest in Jesus every day, include Saturday, me too dear. Your may appear to work every day, me too. Today I start work in the next 30 minutes. Is that mean I am not resting in Jesus in the next 30 minutes?
no dear, I may look like work, but because I come to Jesus, I am rest, my mind is rest, like His promise. The rich may look like rest, he close his office, but his mind is never rest, because real rest is only in Jesus dear. Physical rest on Saturday is only a shadow of the real rest in Jesus, like animal sacrifice is a shadow of the crucifixion of Jesus.
you are right on your believe that we are rest in Jesus every day.
So if I appear to work on Saturday as long as I keep Jesus in my heart, it mean I am rest or observe sabbath isn't it.
If a man not rape, not have a sex with his friend wife, is that mean he not commit adultery?
what physically not commit adultery do not mean it.
jesus say if you see a woman and lust in your heart, you are commit adultery. It is New Covenant law.
physically look like not commit adultery , but it may is
physically may look like not observe sabbath, but it may, as long as you keep Jesus you are sabbath observance, though look like work on Saturday.
no dear, I may look like work, but because I come to Jesus, I am rest, my mind is rest, like His promise. The rich may look like rest, he close his office, but his mind is never rest, because real rest is only in Jesus dear. Physical rest on Saturday is only a shadow of the real rest in Jesus, like animal sacrifice is a shadow of the crucifixion of Jesus.
you are right on your believe that we are rest in Jesus every day.
So if I appear to work on Saturday as long as I keep Jesus in my heart, it mean I am rest or observe sabbath isn't it.
If a man not rape, not have a sex with his friend wife, is that mean he not commit adultery?
what physically not commit adultery do not mean it.
jesus say if you see a woman and lust in your heart, you are commit adultery. It is New Covenant law.
physically look like not commit adultery , but it may is
physically may look like not observe sabbath, but it may, as long as you keep Jesus you are sabbath observance, though look like work on Saturday.
The Sacrificial Laws were separate from all other Commandments and were given specifically to the Levites. Any "stranger" (Non Levite) who attempted to perform these Levitical Priesthood "Works of the Law" were condemned on the spot.
The Feast Days, however, were given to all His People.
Lev. 23:1 And the LORD (The Word which became Flesh) spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my (The Word which became Flesh) feasts.
These "Feasts of the Word which became Flesh" begin with Passover and show God's Salvation plan for His people. I think it is a mistake to clump these in with the "Commands" given specifically to the Levites "Until the Seed should come".
The Feast Days, however, were given to all His People.
Lev. 23:1 And the LORD (The Word which became Flesh) spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my (The Word which became Flesh) feasts.
These "Feasts of the Word which became Flesh" begin with Passover and show God's Salvation plan for His people. I think it is a mistake to clump these in with the "Commands" given specifically to the Levites "Until the Seed should come".
Spiritual rest Is not physical rest.
E
1. Who gave the law to Moses? Satan (In response to Did Jesus creat instructions which came against us)
2. The law said whoever did not OBEY EVERY WORD was cursed. I do not know about you. but when I am said I am cursed if I break ONE command, that is something against me. And if you still question, James said if we break even the least of all commands, we are found guilty of all. Found guilty again to me, is something against me. Paul said whoever is under law is under a curse, Again, That is something against me. If you do not think these are things against you. i do not know what to say.
Nonsense, DO you think before you even write? the religious traditions of men where NEVER against us in the first place. When we get to heaven, God is not going to send me to hell because I broke a religious tradition of man. so why would God take the relgious traditions of men and nail them to the cross. really man. I mean really????
This is just one of the many reasons I appose you. Your a liar. You refuse to listen to anyone. You slander people by claiming they say things they never said, never insinuated and never even come close to saying.
Lets try it the real way, and prove your slander (I highlighted in red your lies., and replaced them with the truth, not only of what I believe, but what the word says.
Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, (SATAN AND HIS DEMONS) he made a shew of them (SATAN AND HIS DEMONS)openly, triumphing over them SATAN AND HIS DEMONS in it
You try to twist peoples words every time they disagree with you, and that is evil, if you can not try to actually have a discussion and figure out at least what people think. they do not bother responding.
The handwritten ordinances which were against us and contrary to us were the ordinances given to moses. engraven in stones, which cursed ANYONE who does not live up to them. Last I read. Only Christ fuflilled the law. thus only christ is not cursed by the law. for the rest of us. Those things which curse us (the curse itself) must be nailed to the cross or we are doomed for eternity.
And that is what satan is telling you. You will not die, You can be your own God you do not have to live up to Gods standard. As long as you obey the law and realy really try hard, God will not condemn you.
You bought it hook line and sinker.
Yeah we have discussed this stuff before. I do not buy it, and have refuted it, But you believe what you want,
Also. Can you learn how to properly quote people? It is very hard to respond when someone does not correct their quotes. there is an edit button if after you post you see your quotes are messed up. I have to correct them many times, and would think you would want to also.
2. The law said whoever did not OBEY EVERY WORD was cursed. I do not know about you. but when I am said I am cursed if I break ONE command, that is something against me. And if you still question, James said if we break even the least of all commands, we are found guilty of all. Found guilty again to me, is something against me. Paul said whoever is under law is under a curse, Again, That is something against me. If you do not think these are things against you. i do not know what to say.
Nonsense, DO you think before you even write? the religious traditions of men where NEVER against us in the first place. When we get to heaven, God is not going to send me to hell because I broke a religious tradition of man. so why would God take the relgious traditions of men and nail them to the cross. really man. I mean really????
This is just one of the many reasons I appose you. Your a liar. You refuse to listen to anyone. You slander people by claiming they say things they never said, never insinuated and never even come close to saying.
Lets try it the real way, and prove your slander (I highlighted in red your lies., and replaced them with the truth, not only of what I believe, but what the word says.
Col. 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;
15 And having spoiled principalities and powers, (SATAN AND HIS DEMONS) he made a shew of them (SATAN AND HIS DEMONS)openly, triumphing over them SATAN AND HIS DEMONS in it
You try to twist peoples words every time they disagree with you, and that is evil, if you can not try to actually have a discussion and figure out at least what people think. they do not bother responding.
The handwritten ordinances which were against us and contrary to us were the ordinances given to moses. engraven in stones, which cursed ANYONE who does not live up to them. Last I read. Only Christ fuflilled the law. thus only christ is not cursed by the law. for the rest of us. Those things which curse us (the curse itself) must be nailed to the cross or we are doomed for eternity.
And that is what satan is telling you. You will not die, You can be your own God you do not have to live up to Gods standard. As long as you obey the law and realy really try hard, God will not condemn you.
You bought it hook line and sinker.
Yeah we have discussed this stuff before. I do not buy it, and have refuted it, But you believe what you want,
Also. Can you learn how to properly quote people? It is very hard to respond when someone does not correct their quotes. there is an edit button if after you post you see your quotes are messed up. I have to correct them many times, and would think you would want to also.
OK. You have it.
Forms of Idol-Worship.
"Temples, altars, and statues were erected to the gods, and figures of oxen and of other animals are also mentioned (Ezek. viii. 10 et seq.). In Israel the worship of high places was a favorite form of polytheistic cult, as is shown by the Book of Kings, where the reign of each monarch is judged chiefly from the standpoint of his participation in the worship of idols, so that the words "but the high places were not removed" form a stereotyped phrase. Prayer was offered to the gods (Ex. xx. 5, xxiii. 24, et passim), the hands were stretched out to them (Ps. xliv. 21 [A. V. 20]), they were invoked by name (I Kings xviii. et seq., xxiv.), their names were praised (Josh. xxiii. 7), knees were bent before them (I Kings xix. 18), incense was burned in their honor (I Kings xi. 8 et passim), they were invoked in the taking of oaths, and sacrifices were immolated to them (Jer. vii. 18; Ex. xxxiv. 15), the victims including even human beings, such as the offerings made to Moloch. The custom of worshiping stars and idols by throwing kisses to them is mentioned in Job xxxi. 13. The exchange of clothes, by which men put on women's clothes and women donned men's garments, was an idolatrous custom, and was consequently forbidden (Deut. xxii. 5). Human hair also served as a sacrifice, and the prohibition against shaving the head or having writing burned into one's body (Lev. xix. 18, 27; xxi. 5; comp. Jer. ix. 26, xxv. 23, xlix. 32) was recognized by the Talmud (Mak. iii. 6) and by Maimonides ("Moreh," iii. 37; "Yad," 'Ab. Zarah xii. 5) as connected with idol-worship. There were, moreover, many other forms of worship, and numerous commandments of the Pentateuch, even though they omit the term "abomination" as a synonym of idolatry, refer to polytheistic worship; foridolatry was deeply rooted in the national character, as is shown by the many proper names compounded with names of idols, so that it became necessary to make every effort for its eradication.
WORSHIP, IDOL- - JewishEncyclopedia.com
The article says the handwritten ordinances were written by pagans. Who wrote the 613 handwritten Mitzvot Laws specifically for the Israelites? Answer, the Israelite scribes wrote them. Who were the pagans? The pagans were the Israelites themselves, and there you have it.
The Mitzvot Laws are the handwritten ordinances that were nailed to the cross. The God given Decalogue stands as do the commandments of Jesus.
Forms of Idol-Worship.
"Temples, altars, and statues were erected to the gods, and figures of oxen and of other animals are also mentioned (Ezek. viii. 10 et seq.). In Israel the worship of high places was a favorite form of polytheistic cult, as is shown by the Book of Kings, where the reign of each monarch is judged chiefly from the standpoint of his participation in the worship of idols, so that the words "but the high places were not removed" form a stereotyped phrase. Prayer was offered to the gods (Ex. xx. 5, xxiii. 24, et passim), the hands were stretched out to them (Ps. xliv. 21 [A. V. 20]), they were invoked by name (I Kings xviii. et seq., xxiv.), their names were praised (Josh. xxiii. 7), knees were bent before them (I Kings xix. 18), incense was burned in their honor (I Kings xi. 8 et passim), they were invoked in the taking of oaths, and sacrifices were immolated to them (Jer. vii. 18; Ex. xxxiv. 15), the victims including even human beings, such as the offerings made to Moloch. The custom of worshiping stars and idols by throwing kisses to them is mentioned in Job xxxi. 13. The exchange of clothes, by which men put on women's clothes and women donned men's garments, was an idolatrous custom, and was consequently forbidden (Deut. xxii. 5). Human hair also served as a sacrifice, and the prohibition against shaving the head or having writing burned into one's body (Lev. xix. 18, 27; xxi. 5; comp. Jer. ix. 26, xxv. 23, xlix. 32) was recognized by the Talmud (Mak. iii. 6) and by Maimonides ("Moreh," iii. 37; "Yad," 'Ab. Zarah xii. 5) as connected with idol-worship. There were, moreover, many other forms of worship, and numerous commandments of the Pentateuch, even though they omit the term "abomination" as a synonym of idolatry, refer to polytheistic worship; foridolatry was deeply rooted in the national character, as is shown by the many proper names compounded with names of idols, so that it became necessary to make every effort for its eradication.
WORSHIP, IDOL- - JewishEncyclopedia.com
The article says the handwritten ordinances were written by pagans. Who wrote the 613 handwritten Mitzvot Laws specifically for the Israelites? Answer, the Israelite scribes wrote them. Who were the pagans? The pagans were the Israelites themselves, and there you have it.
The Mitzvot Laws are the handwritten ordinances that were nailed to the cross. The God given Decalogue stands as do the commandments of Jesus.
You do realize Paul is speaking as if he’s an unsaved person here?
Heres how you know:
1) I am fleshy (carnal)
2) He’s not saying I am spiritual
3) He says I am under sin
4) Paul teaches we are free and masters of sin
Paul isn’t teaching we are redeemed by the Law that’s why he says Who will save me because the Law isn’t the Way, Jesus is. Paul here is explaining we need a spiritual Answer. Later he reveals Jesus is this Answer.
Heres how you know:
1) I am fleshy (carnal)
2) He’s not saying I am spiritual
3) He says I am under sin
4) Paul teaches we are free and masters of sin
Paul isn’t teaching we are redeemed by the Law that’s why he says Who will save me because the Law isn’t the Way, Jesus is. Paul here is explaining we need a spiritual Answer. Later he reveals Jesus is this Answer.
As I’ve shown the ministry of death in the 10 commandments were brought to an end, so that a greater glory could come in the ministry of the Spirit.
The handwriting of ordinances were the judgments (their wages were death) against us. We died to those judgments so we can live to Christ’s righteousness.
The handwriting of ordinances were the judgments (their wages were death) against us. We died to those judgments so we can live to Christ’s righteousness.
E
Once again,
When we stand in front of Christ on judgment day, Those laws will not condemn us They never have been able to condemn us, they never will be able to condemn us. And the people in a well established church would never even think those were the laws Paul spoke of.
So they CAN'T be what Paul is talking about in this passage. Because no mature believers in a well established church would ever think those laws could have ever been against us. because they never were the cause of anyones lack of salvation.
When we stand in front of Christ on judgment day, Those laws will not condemn us They never have been able to condemn us, they never will be able to condemn us. And the people in a well established church would never even think those were the laws Paul spoke of.
So they CAN'T be what Paul is talking about in this passage. Because no mature believers in a well established church would ever think those laws could have ever been against us. because they never were the cause of anyones lack of salvation.
E
Amen, Paul made it clear in another passage.
Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
[SUP]13[/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
This is the curse which was nailed to the cross. The curse of the law (anyone who is not perfect)
Gal 3: [SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”
[SUP]13[/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
This is the curse which was nailed to the cross. The curse of the law (anyone who is not perfect)
The Decalogue stands, but not for the Christian. If you are in Christ, you are unified with One who is greater than the Sabbath. And all the other laws are contained in love one another as I have loved you.
You have to understand you’re living FROM righteousness in Christ. This is how the Just LIVE by faith. You’re no longer living FOR it. That’s the stumbling block.
You have to understand you’re living FROM righteousness in Christ. This is how the Just LIVE by faith. You’re no longer living FOR it. That’s the stumbling block.
Last edited:
When Paul said we uphold the Law, what he is saying is that we upheld the SPIRIT of the Law, which is loving one another, not the LETTER of the Law because that brings death. If you don’t understand the difference between the Spirit and the Letter of the Law you could stumble. Because the Spirit brings life, but the Letter brings death. Living by the Letter is comparing yourself to the Law to determine your righteousness, this is still seeking to make ourselves righteous. But this causes us to see our nakedness not His righteousness. Please notice with the Letter the focus is on self outside of Christ, which is condemnation, but with the Spirit righteousness is seeing Christ and ourselves hidden in Him. We are Victors. This is life and peace. This is the starting place of justification for the believer. In this place, we come boldly before the throne of grace, covered in Christ as our righteousness. Christ is the Life not the Law. The Law was given to point to our need for Him.
Last edited:
This Scripture raises an incredible point. What is the curse of the Law? Is it the 10 commandments (yes it is) or the 613 little laws? And if you say it’s the commandments, why go back under them when Paul says the blessing of Abraham is now available and Abraham didn’t have the 10 commandments. Moses did because they were given to the Nation of Israel.