Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances
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E
I look at it this way. When paul said what he did in Gal 3. What laws specifically was he talking about.
If you go back in duet 27 (where paul quoted the words of Moses) you will see Moses commanded the people to engrave the law which he had given in stone when they crossed the river. commands which start in chapter 4. and include the ten commands. He gives many laws, which he said the children of Isreal must obey when they cross the river. And in chapter 27, he commanded they write these laws in stone, and anyone who did not confirm and obey every law was under a curse. That curse of course is death.
You're not saying the 10 Commandments are the curse of the Law, right? But, rather, the impossibility of keeping them is the curse of the Law, I hope? Sin is the curse. Sin is what was nailed to the Cross. Its wages - death - is the price Jesus paid on our behalf for the forgiveness of SIN.
The Big Ten are still in effect. While we don't HAVE to keep them and keeping them is NOT required for salvation; as Christians, we WANT to keep them because they are Holy, Just, & Righteous and as such, are FOR us, not AGAINST us.
Jesus even said there are 2 great commandments: Love the Lord Thy God with all thine heart, soul, mind, & strength; & the 2nd, which is like unto the first, love thy neighbor as thyself. One commandment is for our relationship with God; the other for our relationship with others. The remaining 8 fall under one or the other of the 2 great commandments.
The Big Ten are still in effect. While we don't HAVE to keep them and keeping them is NOT required for salvation; as Christians, we WANT to keep them because they are Holy, Just, & Righteous and as such, are FOR us, not AGAINST us.
Jesus even said there are 2 great commandments: Love the Lord Thy God with all thine heart, soul, mind, & strength; & the 2nd, which is like unto the first, love thy neighbor as thyself. One commandment is for our relationship with God; the other for our relationship with others. The remaining 8 fall under one or the other of the 2 great commandments.
so you believe we do not doing animal sacrifice anymore because this law is for the Leviticus?
How about this law, it is for congregation
Numbers 15:32-36 New King James Version (NKJV)
Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
this law is for all the congregation and I believe you are member of congregation, why don't you obey it
How about this law, it is for congregation
Numbers 15:32-36 New King James Version (NKJV)
Penalty for Violating the Sabbath
32 Now while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the Sabbath day. 33 And those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses and Aaron, and to all the congregation. 34 They put him under guard, because it had not been explained what should be done to him.
35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man must surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.” 36 So, as the Lord commanded Moses, all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him with stones, and he died.
this law is for all the congregation and I believe you are member of congregation, why don't you obey it
Great comment. Thank you for asking and not assuming. You are right, I am not saying the Big 10 are the curse of the Law. I was referring to which Law do you think is being referenced here, the Big 10 or the 613 little laws? I agree with you, but instead of focusing on what I’m not to do, I focus on love. The difference in this is profound. One is trying to measure up, the other is living from freedom. And using our freedom to love as we have been loved. In Christ, we have peace with God. And now we show our love for Him through our love for each other. We are no longer bound to the elementary principles of this world.
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One great comnent deserves another, Cee. Thank you for your kind words and for clarifying what you meant. Love is the whole crux of the matter, isn't it? To quote the lyrics of a Christian song, for which, unfortunately, I do not have the name or the artist at hand, "it wasn't nails that held You to the Cross, it was Love".
God bless you, Cee, as I'm sure He already has!
God bless you, Cee, as I'm sure He already has!
=eternally-gratefull;3526131]
The Word which became Flesh in the person of Jesus gave Moses His Instructions. These are His Sayings, His Word's, His Commandments that we are told by Him to have and KEEP. This is the Jesus I believe in.
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
And again;
Jer. 6:Thus saith the LORD (The Word which became Flesh), Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Ex. 20:2 I (The Word which became Flesh) am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, (Sin)out of the house of bondage. (Deception)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Ps. 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him,
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Not against us as many preach)
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Eph. 2:9 Not of (Man's) works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
So far the Commandments of God are preached and are not against us. What did Jesus warn about then if it wasn't about what you preach is against us?
Matt. 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; (Necks) but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not the Laws of God as many preach)
Matt. 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (deceive means to convince someone of a lie)
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
So now EG, you want to convince others to ignore all this and suddenly believe;
And;
Both direct quotes.
Now for the first I think you would most certainly be cursed if you kept the Commandment "Thou shall not kill" but cheated on your wife or stole your neighbors cow. Why you would want to be excused from this, or preach that Jesus would want you excused on this is profound.
The Word which became Flesh created instructions. As life teaches us, if we have instructions and don't follow them, disaster soon follows, sometimes it can kill us or others. I find your rejection of these life truths when it comes to the instructions Jesus created for us foolish as best. Of course you are cursed if you only follow what instructions you feel like with just about anything. Try that crap with a table saw and see what happens.
As for your second quote.
Jesus never once warned about His Fathers Commandments being against us. But He warned over and over as did the Prophets before Him, and His apostles after Him, about men's religious traditions and doctrines. No doubt you believe your own words, but Jesus and Paul certainly most certainly didn't, therefore neither can I.
So when Paul says in Col. 2:
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
You ignore it because in your religion, it is not the traditions of man that defile people, or turn people away from God, or are against us, rather, it is the Commandments of God which are against us.
So then you preach;
How does Jesus make a show of satan openly by nailing God's Words to the cross? Hasn't satan been trying to convince people since Eve that there is no death for rejecting God's Instructions? According to you it has finally accomplished that which it has attempted since the beginning.
Jesus nailed the "handwriting of ordinances" which the Jews had taught for centuries as Law, which were against us as the Word clearly states over and over, to the cross.
He made a show of the Mainstream Preachers (Which were satan's children, I'll give you that) of that time.
The creator of the Law, which was Jesus before He became Flesh, did not create Laws that were against us as the scriptures clearly show. Only man does that.
The Pharisees had a Law "We have a Law, and by OUR LAW He should die" so they killed Him according to the "handwriting of ordinances" they had created over time. (We call it the Talmud now)
This Law was a burden to the people and directed them away from the Word which became Flesh. Jesus was condemned by this "ordinance" but rose from the dead "Making a show of them openly", "Triumphing over them in it". It wasn't God's Law that is against us, we are to beware of something that is.
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
How you can preach that Jesus triumphed over satan by removing God's Instructions is fascinating to me. Especially given all the scriptures which show just the opposite.
Many on this forum preach God nailed the entire Old Testament to the Cross. That the battle Jesus had was with the unjust God of the Old Testament who was mean and killed people for breaking laws He hadn't given them yet. They do believe Jesus rescued us from the mean old testament God and that He did "Triumph over God".
Given your posts over the last year I thought you preached the same thing. I see you do preach Jesus nailed God's Laws which you say are against us to the Cross, but I didn't realize you preached it was to make a show of satan openly. I would have never guessed that.
I stand corrected regarding your preaching.
The Word which became Flesh in the person of Jesus gave Moses His Instructions. These are His Sayings, His Word's, His Commandments that we are told by Him to have and KEEP. This is the Jesus I believe in.
"If ye love me, keep my commandments."
And again;
Jer. 6:Thus saith the LORD (The Word which became Flesh), Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Ex. 20:2 I (The Word which became Flesh) am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, (Sin)out of the house of bondage. (Deception)
3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Ps. 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O LORD; and thy law is my delight.
Matt. 19:17 And he said unto him,
Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Rom. 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. (Not against us as many preach)
13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid.
rom. 2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
Eph. 2:9 Not of (Man's) works, lest any man should boast.
10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Rom. 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
So far the Commandments of God are preached and are not against us. What did Jesus warn about then if it wasn't about what you preach is against us?
Matt. 23:2 Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat:
3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.
4 For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; (Necks) but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.
Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. (Not the Laws of God as many preach)
Matt. 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:
35
That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.
Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. (deceive means to convince someone of a lie)
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
Col. 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
So now EG, you want to convince others to ignore all this and suddenly believe;
And;
Both direct quotes.
Now for the first I think you would most certainly be cursed if you kept the Commandment "Thou shall not kill" but cheated on your wife or stole your neighbors cow. Why you would want to be excused from this, or preach that Jesus would want you excused on this is profound.
The Word which became Flesh created instructions. As life teaches us, if we have instructions and don't follow them, disaster soon follows, sometimes it can kill us or others. I find your rejection of these life truths when it comes to the instructions Jesus created for us foolish as best. Of course you are cursed if you only follow what instructions you feel like with just about anything. Try that crap with a table saw and see what happens.
As for your second quote.
Jesus never once warned about His Fathers Commandments being against us. But He warned over and over as did the Prophets before Him, and His apostles after Him, about men's religious traditions and doctrines. No doubt you believe your own words, but Jesus and Paul certainly most certainly didn't, therefore neither can I.
So when Paul says in Col. 2:
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
You ignore it because in your religion, it is not the traditions of man that defile people, or turn people away from God, or are against us, rather, it is the Commandments of God which are against us.
So then you preach;
How does Jesus make a show of satan openly by nailing God's Words to the cross? Hasn't satan been trying to convince people since Eve that there is no death for rejecting God's Instructions? According to you it has finally accomplished that which it has attempted since the beginning.
Jesus nailed the "handwriting of ordinances" which the Jews had taught for centuries as Law, which were against us as the Word clearly states over and over, to the cross.
He made a show of the Mainstream Preachers (Which were satan's children, I'll give you that) of that time.
The creator of the Law, which was Jesus before He became Flesh, did not create Laws that were against us as the scriptures clearly show. Only man does that.
The Pharisees had a Law "We have a Law, and by OUR LAW He should die" so they killed Him according to the "handwriting of ordinances" they had created over time. (We call it the Talmud now)
This Law was a burden to the people and directed them away from the Word which became Flesh. Jesus was condemned by this "ordinance" but rose from the dead "Making a show of them openly", "Triumphing over them in it". It wasn't God's Law that is against us, we are to beware of something that is.
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ."
How you can preach that Jesus triumphed over satan by removing God's Instructions is fascinating to me. Especially given all the scriptures which show just the opposite.
Many on this forum preach God nailed the entire Old Testament to the Cross. That the battle Jesus had was with the unjust God of the Old Testament who was mean and killed people for breaking laws He hadn't given them yet. They do believe Jesus rescued us from the mean old testament God and that He did "Triumph over God".
Given your posts over the last year I thought you preached the same thing. I see you do preach Jesus nailed God's Laws which you say are against us to the Cross, but I didn't realize you preached it was to make a show of satan openly. I would have never guessed that.
I stand corrected regarding your preaching.
Rom. 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
It seems you are mistaken Jackson 123. Paul broke God's Laws and was killed just as the scriptures say. And it is God's Congregation which showed Him the Law and thus Spiritually stoned him to death.
So God's Spiritual intent of this Law is still being carried out to this day. "For the wages of sin is death". But I believe the Word which became Flesh can raise Paul up again, and myself so I can serve Him in Newness of the Spirit, and not remain dead as the letter states.