Are women allowed to Preach?

[loyaldisciple]

Rebellion against authority is the defining mark of human beings. And the things that drive that rebellion are, in order

1) pride

2) fear

3) envy

We see it in the home, we see it in the workplace, we see it in politics, we see it in the church-people who have decided they aren't going to be under authority and who want to say and do what they want to say and do.

You could add "inferiority complex" to that list. Many women are not satisfied with the "supporting" role God has given to them so they wish to lead. Because society has deceived them into believing that a supporting role somehow makes them less important or inferior in value to the other sex. Society has essentially lied to them in order to get them to follow it's own agenda, which is not the plan of God. Society lies and goes against God's plan and many will blindly follow, disregarding the word of God, exactly as society wishes for them to do.

 

[loyaldisciple]

You have created a false dichotomy.

Our relationship with God through Christ is not merely one of following commands... it's sad that you see it that way. Not only are you really missing out, it also explains your dogmatism on so many issues.

You are the one spreading false doctrine here.

PSALMS 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

The verse is very clear. The understanding requires the doing of the commandments first. One who follows the commandments gains the understanding. It is not one who sits for days trying to gain understanding that follows the commandments. It is the one who obeys the commandments first and foremost that God will gift the understanding. This verse could not be any more clear about this. It is obedience that leads to understanding.

 

[Dino246]

You are the one spreading false doctrine here.

I welcome to you back up this slander with evidence... not merely your opinion.

 

[Dino246]

You could add "inferiority complex" to that list. Many women are not satisfied with the "supporting" role God has given to them so they wish to lead. Because society has deceived them into believing that a supporting role somehow makes them less important or inferior in value to the other sex. Society has essentially lied to them in order to get them to follow it's own agenda, which is not the plan of God. Society lies and goes against God's plan and many will blindly follow, disregarding the word of God, exactly as society wishes for them to do.

What Scripture do you have to support the idea that God has given women a "supporting role"? And what evidence do you have that Christian women who do not accept your view of restrictions on them are taking their lead from "society"?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

What Scripture do you have to support the idea that God has given women a "supporting role"? And what evidence do you have that Christian women who do not accept your view of restrictions on them are taking their lead from "society"?

I'd like to see what the supporting role looks like when a man or husband leaves a woman with children, removes his support (if any) and disappears into the woodwork

I'd like to see the supporting role when a husband dies and the widow has to do what her husband used to do...support herself and the children and make all the decisions

not everyone has someone they can turn to or go to for advice

how is a woman enduring those conditions taking her lead from society?

I think some people's ideas of what they call society are gleaned from a world they are no longer a part of

an answer for everything it seems and no desire to be helpful; but only to condemn, judge and appear superior and act like they have all the answers from scripture

too bad the love, empathy, grace and mercy are missing

I don't think a person can ask HONEST questions here and actually get HONEST answers from certain posters

even 'I don't really know' would be truthful compared to some of the blather passing for 'knowledge'

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

More nonsense to reject Bible truth. Blame the Romans for everything except their road-building capabilities.

From > 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

Luther’s exclusion of women has it’s origin in a tradition begun by Tertullian (145-220). Karen Jo Torjesen describes Tertullian’s vision of the church as an essentially Roman institution.

"Tertullian’s description of the Christian community dramatically marks the transition of the model of the church from the household or private association to the body politic. With him the church became a legal body (corpus or societas, the term the Romans used for the body politic) unified by a common law (lex fidei, “the law of faith”) and a common discipline (disciplina, Christian morality). For Tertullian the church, like Roman society, united a diversity of ethic groups into one body under the rule of one law… Tertullian conceived the society of the church as analogous to Roman society, divided into distinct classes or ranks, which were distinguished from one another in terms of honor and authority.​

 

[loyaldisciple]

I welcome to you back up this slander with evidence... not merely your opinion.

It isn't slander, it's truth. You just stated "everyone is given the same authority on earth"

THEN you go on to quote scripture that states the man is to rule his household. OBVIOUSLY one cannot have equal authority and be a ruler at the same time. FALLACY IS WHAT YOU OFTEN SPREAD ON THIS FORUM. Your own false earthly words, followed by the truth of the BIBLE. It is the BIBLE ITSELF that proves you are spreading false doctrine when using your words because it often disagrees with you 100%.

 

[Nehemiah6]

So what do you think the hierarchy is/should be?

Scripture is very clear that the elders of each local church are the overseers (bishops) and shepherds (pastors) to watch over and also to admonish the flock. So the hierarchy of the local Church is:

God the Father -- the Head or Authority over the Son (1 Cor 11:3)

Christ -- the Head of the whole church, with supreme authority over the church and every believer

The elders -- having delegated authority over the assembly's spiritual welfare and over the flock

The deacons -- delegated to handle the temporal affairs to the church

All Christian men -- having delegated authority over their wives and children

All Christian women -- having delegated authority over their children

 

[loyaldisciple]

What Scripture do you have to support the idea that God has given women a "supporting role"? And what evidence do you have that Christian women who do not accept your view of restrictions on them are taking their lead from "society"?

Genesis 2:18 [SUP]18[/SUP]The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

A "helper" is one who "supports". It is very clear God gave woman a "supporting" role.

There are also many, many other verses describing woman as having a "supporting" role, but I won't waste my time in listing them, because you often ask for proof of something, but never listen to the proof when it is given to you.The verses aren't simply "my view". They are God's truth as they are written in the Bible. Also, it isn't simply my view that society is a bad influence. The Bible states the devil has domain over the earth until Christ returns. Therefore, it is obvious that society is a bad influence, as the devil is head of that earthly society.

 

[followjesus]

I just received the question from one of my friends, What is the best explanation to this?

1Ti 2:11-14
(11) Women should listen and learn quietly and submissively.
(12) I do not let women teach men or have authority over them. Let them listen quietly.
(13) For God made Adam first, and afterward he made Eve.
(14) And it was the woman, not Adam, who was deceived by Satan, and sin was the result.

Is there a mixup of the Jewish culture and christianity?

Then the disciples went away again unto their own home.
11But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, and looked into the sepulchre, 12And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.

13And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him. 14And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus. 15Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.

16Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master. 17Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. 18Mary Magdalene came and told the disciples that she had seen the Lord, and that he had spoken these things unto her."

what if Mary Had been silent in the congregation? God cares about the persons Heart, Mary refused to Leave Her Love for Jesus was much More than whether she was a Man or woman. God can use anyone anytime any place for any prupose including women to preach and teach the Bible to Jesus Brethren, the Children of God. Mary, was the first Person to preach the Gospel, by comission of Jesus Christ.

Paul is a former oharisee and says Himself " m not perfect"

1 timothy 2 " But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence."


Preaching the gospel is something God calls a person to do its about the spirit and the people Jesus calls to do things women and men is irrelevant as Paul teaches in another Place, so i think this is pauls pharicitical heritage coming through. or else He is contradicting Himself explaining Men and women are different in One place and then sayong they are Not independant of one another in the Lord. there is No male nor female jew nor gentile in Christ......


Paul actually did a missionary journey with priscilla and aquilla a husband and wife Ministry team.

 

[Dino246]

It isn't slander, it's truth. You just stated "everyone is given the same authority on earth"

THEN you go on to quote scripture that states the man is to rule his household. OBVIOUSLY one cannot have equal authority and be a ruler at the same time. FALLACY IS WHAT YOU OFTEN SPREAD ON THIS FORUM. Your own false earthly words, followed by the truth of the BIBLE. It is the BIBLE ITSELF that proves you are spreading false doctrine when using your words because it often disagrees with you 100%.

I encourage you to check the name of the contributor who actually posted the material paraphrased above.

 

[Dino246]

Genesis 2:18 [SUP]18[/SUP]The LORD God said, "It is not good for the man to be alone. I will make a helper suitable for him."

A "helper" is one who "supports".It is very clear God gave woman a "supporting" role.

What is the Hebrew word translated "helper"? How else, and of whom, is it used in Scripture?

 

[Dino246]

Scripture is very clear that the elders of each local church are the overseers (bishops) and shepherds (pastors) to watch over and also to admonish the flock. So the hierarchy of the local Church is:

God the Father -- the Head or Authority over the Son (1 Cor 11:3)

Christ -- the Head of the whole church, with supreme authority over the church and every believer

The elders -- having delegated authority over the assembly's spiritual welfare and over the flock

The deacons -- delegated to handle the temporal affairs to the church

All Christian men -- having delegated authority over their wives and children

All Christian women -- having delegated authority over their children

Okay... now... given that Scripture is consistent, how do you integrate Ephesians 5:21, 1 Peter 5:3, Matthew 20:24-27 and Ephesians 4:12 into this?

 

[loyaldisciple]

I encourage you to check the name of the contributor who actually posted the material paraphrased above.

My apologies on that misprint. It was Garee that posted those remarks. However, you ARE posting false doctrine with your claims that understanding precedes obedience. The verse I gave you makes it very clear that obedience precedes understanding.

PSALMS 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

 

[Dino246]

My apologies on that misprint. It was Garee that posted those remarks.

I forgive you...

However, you ARE posting false doctrine with your claims that understanding precedes obedience.

Please quote me where I made any such claim.

The verse I gave you makes it very clear that obedience precedes understanding.

PSALMS 111:10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.

What you have provided is a verse showing that good understand does follow obedience. It does not, however, state that understanding only follows obedience.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Okay... now... given that Scripture is consistent, how do you integrate Ephesians 5:21, 1 Peter 5:3, Matthew 20:24-27 and Ephesians 4:12 into this?

Context is critical. So let's put those Scriptures in perspective.

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
This is addressed to the whole church, therefore applies to believers and their relationships to each other within the context of the hierarchy already established. So as Thayer says, in this context it means "to yield to one's admonition or advice". This is further clarified in Colossians: Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering; Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness. (Col 3:12-14)

1 Pet 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
Elders may not abuse their delegated authority by taking advantage of their position or assuming lordship over the flock. Their role is to be godly examples and to use Scripture appropriately to deal with spiritual issues. And that is why there was always a plurality of elders in the NT churches, so if one elder was out of line, the others could correct him.

Mt 20:24-27 But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant:
So what this tells us is that the elders are to have the attitude of servants and not lords. So their leadership is in outstanding service to the flock but not in a controlling manner. This does not detract from their authority but enhances it. This is similar to a manager with employees under him. If he treats them well and gives them the respect they deserve, he will have outstanding results without diminishing his authority.

Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ
This tells us that spiritual gifts connected with the ministry of the Word are given to the local churches so that all the saints can be developed to do the work of the ministry (depending on their spiritual gifts) and to build up the body of Christ. Which also means that spiritual gifts given to elders are not for self-edification but for the growth and development of each and every one within that local assembly. For example, one of the things which is lacking in most churches is practical teaching on how to study and interpret the Bible. The mechanics of Bible study and Bible interpretation. This would help the rank and file to get a proper grasp of Bible truth. This would also enable the ones who have the actual gifts of evangelist, pastor, or teacher to properly exercise their gifts.

 

[loyaldisciple]

My apologies on that misprint. It was Garee that posted those remarks.

I forgive you...



Please quote me where I made any such claim.



What you have provided is a verse showing that good understand does follow obedience. It does not, however, state that understanding only follows obedience.

I give up. God's verses seem to convince you of nothing. Believe as you wish.

 

[Dino246]

I give up. God's verses seem to convince you of nothing. Believe as you wish.

So you accuse me of spreading false doctrine twice, and cannot substantiate it in either case. Instead, you dismiss me.

No further comment.

 

[Dino246]

Context is critical. So let's put those Scriptures in perspective.

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
This is addressed to the whole church, therefore applies to believers and their relationships to each other within the context of the hierarchy already established. ...

Generally I agree with your post, thanks. I question the phrase in bold above though; it's not that I disagree with it necessarily, but given that there is as much about mutual submission and authority for the purpose of edificatation as there is about "hierarchy" as you call it, I wonder if the focus on hierarchy "of first priority" isn't out of place.

Every time I see a focus on authority "first", I see it abused, with a consequent reduction of edification. Every time I see mutual submission and edification put "first", the "hierarchy" becomes a non-issue.

 

[Lucy-Pevensie]

Context is critical.

You don't say!