GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

Shamah · Apr 13, 2018

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning[/FONT]" is easy to understand, one would have to do some major denial to twist that into something other than "OT" "Laws".

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Messiah made it clear, unless heaven and earth pass...

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

yet everyone says the Law have passed, however I will trust the Messiah.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[/FONT]

gb9 · Apr 13, 2018

Shamah said:

"The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning" is easy to understand, one would have to do some major denial to twist that into something other than "OT" "Laws".

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”

Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”

1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."

Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love יהוה your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”

Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am יהוה.”

Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."

“all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete

Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of יהוה.” (Deut 8:3)

The Messiah made it clear, unless heaven and earth pass...

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

yet everyone says the Law have passed, however I will trust the Messiah.

as usual, 1st John is cited for command keeping, yet, John was not talking about the Laws given at Sinai. John said in chapter 3- the commands are believe in the name of the Son, and love one another. ( no Sabbath ).

if context , if only context. another Hebrew roots fail.

Studyman · Apr 13, 2018

Dan_473 said:

I think we are talking about two different Jesus' here Dan. My Jesus, the one of the Bible, The Word which became Flesh, said in the Law and Prophets that He, as the Messiah, would come for the Children of Abraham as He promised. But these "builders" would reject Him who has become the Cornerstone, so He would go to the Gentiles.

So if you tell me you are going to do something, and you do it, how is that "Changing"? How is doing what you promised to do, telling folks something different?

And the real question is, "Why on earth would you even try and make such a claim about a perfect God who doesn't change"?

beta · Apr 13, 2018

Shamah said:

Of course they deny the law and the Commandments...they follow a false, lawless jesus we were WARNED against Mat 24v4,5.

beta · Apr 13, 2018

Studyman said:

I think we are talking about two different Jesus' here Dan. My Jesus, the one of the Bible, The Word which became Flesh, said in the Law and Prophets that He, as the Messiah, would come for the Children of Abraham as He promised. But these "builders" would reject Him who has become the Cornerstone, so He would go to the Gentiles.

So if you tell me you are going to do something, and you do it, how is that "Changing"? How is doing what you promised to do, telling folks something different?

And the real question is, "Why on earth would you even try and make such a claim about a perfect God who doesn't change"?

There certainly is a difference between the Jesus of the Bible and the imposter from Rome who is deceiving MANY !!! Mat 24.

mailmandan · Apr 13, 2018

beta said:

blue_ladybug · Apr 13, 2018

There is only ONE Jesus Christ. However there are many imitators and anti-Christ's..

Studyman said:

I think we are talking about two different Jesus' here Dan. My Jesus, the one of the Bible, The Word which became Flesh, said in the Law and Prophets that He, as the Messiah, would come for the Children of Abraham as He promised. But these "builders" would reject Him who has become the Cornerstone, so He would go to the Gentiles.

So if you tell me you are going to do something, and you do it, how is that "Changing"? How is doing what you promised to do, telling folks something different?

And the real question is, "Why on earth would you even try and make such a claim about a perfect God who doesn't change"?

rstrats · Apr 13, 2018

gb9,
re: "as usual, 1st John is cited for command keeping, yet, John was not talking about the Laws given at Sinai. John said in chapter 3- the commands are believe in the name of the Son, and love one another."

How can you say for sure that the commandments that the Messiah etched in stone when He was functioning as the Word on Sinai are not also included in the "commandments" mentioned in 1 John 2:4?

gb9 · Apr 13, 2018

rstrats said:

( can't believe I have to explain this ) 1st John is a letter. it was not divided into chapters and verses until hundreds of years after John wrote it. so, after you read chapter 2, keep reading. you and others try to use chapter 2 to point to the Torah, but John does not.

in John's Gospel, he records Jesus saying " believe in me " and " a new commandment I give you, love one another as I have loved you ". John echoed this in letter, saying the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another.

Studyman · Apr 13, 2018

blue_ladybug said:

Yes, as Jesus said "Many will come in My name, and preach that I, Jesus, am Truly the Christ, and will deceive Many"

And they will be disguised as "Ministers of Righteousness", and "Apostles of Christ".

I think those who preach He Changed, is not speaking about the Word which became Flesh, who is the Same, "Yesterday, Today and Forever", whose Words will last forever.

I think they preach a jesus that is created in the mind of man. One who does change, whose Word's can be ignored in lieu of ancient religious traditions.

You are certainly right in that there is only one Christ. And He is written about in the Holy Scriptures.

Endoscopy · Apr 13, 2018

Studyman said:

Here is Paul talking about his fight against the law of sin living in himself. This is the issue we all have to live with.

Romans 7 NIV
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

Cee · Apr 13, 2018

Endoscopy said:

Here is Paul talking about his fight against the law of sin living in himself. This is the issue we all have to live with.

Romans 7 NIV
14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin. 15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do. 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good. 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me. 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature. For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing. 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it.
21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God’s law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death? 25 Thanks be to God, who delivers me through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful nature a slave to the law of sin.

"We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin."

You think Paul is talking about himself in Christ? The man who said, he died to himself, but lives only to Christ, it's not him, but Christ who lives, that if we are not lead by the Spirit we are not His, and that we are free from the law of sin and death.

Dan_473 · Apr 13, 2018

prove-all said:

First one was preaching the gospel of the coming kingdom of God,
the other was after Christs ministery, and was for a witness of events.
-

13And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan;
and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him

-Here Christ overcame temptation, He quilified to replace satan as [god]
of this curent [age], but he did not take over [the kingdoms] of this earth yet.

He anounced the future coming kingdom, it was now a forsure thing.
We see in revelations [when ] this occures, the kingdoms become Christs.

14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee,
preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled,
and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom
of heaven is at hand .

-The good news being sent out, about the coming kingdom of God to earth.

The Gospel that Jesus had sent the Apostles to preach was not centered on believing
on Christ's person, or receiving forgiveness of sins through His sacrifice at that time.
Christ had not even told His own disciples this yet.

"Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that he was Jesus
the Christ." It was only [after Peter's recognition] of Jesus as the Christ that Jesus
began to teach His disciples about His coming crucifixion and resurrection. Peter did
not receive this teaching very well at this point. A proclamation of Jesus, as Christ
crucified, was not a part of the Gospel that Christ had previously sent Peter out preaching.
-

But when they believed Philip as he preached [1] the things concerning the kingdom
of God and [2] the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized" (Acts 8:12).

But here now the people believed Philip’s message of the Good News
concerning the Kingdom of God [and the name] of Jesus Christ.

-The message of Jesus suffering, of his crucifixion and resurrection,
was added to the gospel of the kingdom of God.

Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep
the commandments of God [and the faith of Jesus].

-As [a witness-es] of his resurrection, and mircles that happened in the area.

21Wherefore of these men which have companied with us
all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us,

Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up
from us, [must one be ordained to be [a witness] with us of his resurrection].
-

2Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost
had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:

4And, being assembled together with them, [commanded them] that they
should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father,
which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

-they where commanded to wait for, and keep the day of Pentecost.
Why do we not also keep this day?

5 For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with
the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

-The old testement spoke of this day, the giving of the Holy Spirit.

1And when [the day of Pentecost] was fully come,
they were all with one accord in one place.

-Another one of Gods Holy convocations, the deciples where commanded to keep,
and gential converts also kept, if not they would not be part of, the start of the new
testement church that was founded that day. [ Pentecost] First fruits [50th].

This is one of the Holydays "things to come"fortold and mentioned in COL 2:16,
along with the next one "the feast of trumphs" that pictures Christs return in power.

the bread and wine for Passover, and the feast of Un. bread, Apostles keeped falls under
Let no man therefore judge you in MEAT, or in DRINK, or in respect of an HOLYDAY
-

His disciples "thought the kingdom of God would appear immediately" So
"He spoke another parable" He explained to them about how [He] had to go
to heaven to be crowned, and then He would return at a later date. (Luke 19:11..
-

6When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying,
Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,
which the Father hath put in his own power.

-Here Christ did not say it would not be restored, the Apostles did not know when.

Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
“The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of
His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!” -see also [Daniel 7:27]

-clearly the kingdom [Christs reign on earth] has not been established yet.
We pray "Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven".

"First one was preaching the gospel of the coming kingdom of God..."

no,
Matthew 10: 7. As you go, preach, saying, 'The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!' 8. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, and cast out demons. Freely you received, so freely give.

"...the other was after Christs ministery, and was for a witness of events."

again, much more than that

Acts 8: 14. Now when the apostles who were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them, 15. who, when they had come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Spirit; 16. for as yet he had fallen on none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of Christ Jesus.

if you can honestly look at the three passages and say that they all command the same thing, then all i can really say is we read it differently

Dan_473 · Apr 13, 2018

PS said:

no purse or wallet

Luke 10: 4. Carry no purse, nor wallet, nor sandals. Greet no one on the way.

take both purse and wallet

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

Dan_473 · Apr 13, 2018

Shamah said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning[/FONT]" is easy to understand, one would have to do some major denial to twist that into something other than "OT" "Laws".

1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Genesis 1:1, “In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 2:24, "As for you, let that stay in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning stays in you, you also shall stay in the Son and in the Father."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Deuteronomy 6:5, “And you shall love [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Strength with all your heart, and with all your being, and with all your might.”[/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Leviticus 19:18, ‘Do not take vengeance or bear a grudge against the children of your people. And you shall love your neighbor as yourself. I am [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]

“[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]all” is word #G3650 - holos - Strong's Concordance, holos: whole, complete, Original Word: ὅλος, η, ον, Part of Speech: Adjective, Transliteration: holos, Phonetic Spelling: (hol'-os), Short Definition: all, the whole, entire, Definition: all, the whole, entire, complete[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 4:4, “But He answering, said, “It has been written, ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].” (Deut 8:3)

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]The Messiah made it clear, unless heaven and earth pass...

[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]

yet everyone says the Law have passed, however I will trust the Messiah.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif][/FONT]
[/FONT]

“And*by this we know that we know Him,*if we guard His commands.*"

amen! i see that as the commands as mediated by Jesus

Dan_473 · Apr 13, 2018

Studyman said:

here's how it changes

-go only to Israel

-go to the entire world

now, do you honestly not see a change in what is commanded here?

Luke 22: 35. He said to them, "When I sent you out without purse, and wallet, and shoes, did you lack anything?" They said, "Nothing." 36. Then he said to them, "But now, whoever has a purse, let him take it, and likewise a wallet. Whoever has none, let him sell his cloak, and buy a sword.

Dan_473 · Apr 13, 2018

Studyman said:

Studyman,

"And the real question is, "Why on earth would you even try and make such a claim about a perfect God who doesn't change"?"

God doesn't change

but what he tells us to do can change - or be mediated differently - based on time and place

prove-all · Apr 13, 2018

Dan_473 said:

Funny:you can not send someone out to be a "witness to the resurection"
If this event had not happened yet, at that time.

rstrats · Apr 13, 2018

gb9,
re: "in John's Gospel, he records Jesus saying ' believe in me ' and ' a new commandment I give you, love one another as I have loved you '. John echoed this in letter, saying the commands are believe in the name of the Son and love one another."

How are you able to say that those additional commands automatically canceled out all of the Messiah's previous commands?

Dan_473 · Apr 13, 2018

prove-all said:

that would be part of it

different time and place leads to amended command

GOD'S SABBATH AND THE REAL TRUTH OF COL 2:14-17 WHO DO WE BELIEVE GOD or MAN?

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