Hebrews 10:26-31
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R
Jesus said they believed.
I'm going with what Jesus said.
You have to add 'not really believed' to the passage. It doesn't say that.
Besides, Jesus talks plainly about real believers in danger of stumbling blocks causing them to go to the eternal fire in Matthew 18. He's not warning us to not cause fake believers to stumble and go to the fiery place.
I'm going with what Jesus said.
You have to add 'not really believed' to the passage. It doesn't say that.
Besides, Jesus talks plainly about real believers in danger of stumbling blocks causing them to go to the eternal fire in Matthew 18. He's not warning us to not cause fake believers to stumble and go to the fiery place.
N
nope youre conflating
and of course you delete the scriptures from my posts
i should know by now
*sigh*
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Matthew 18
1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them,
3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.
(unless you are born again you cannot be saved)
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4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
(explaining they shoulsnt boast before eachother)
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5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me.
6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.
offend one of His little ones... not speaking OF His little ones losing salvation... we are covered by His righteousness and not our own.... His children know this
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7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!
this is to the world.... and man separate statement
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8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
to the world not His born again children these sins or any sin will get you in the lake of fire
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10 Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven.
11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.
12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?
13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.
14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
this is for His children who go astray aka offend eachother or sin.. not to those being judged by their own righteousness
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15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
THIS IS HOW WE DEAL WITH BROTHERS who offend us..... BROTHERS.... it is instruction for righteousness not command for a saving work
N
34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
He aint losing one of His sheep ralph
Although it says they "believe for a while," NOWHERE does it say they were "saved." Luke 8:13 - But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy (emotional response) and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away.
The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." *Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. *Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away.
John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of authentic, consummated belief that results in salvation." In John 2:23-25 for example we clearly see their belief was superficial in nature.
*Also, in John 8:31-59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" were described by Jesus as slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus and have no room for His word, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to kill Jesus by stoning Him, after originally having professed to believe in Him.
The shallow ground hearer is contrasted with that of the "good ground" hearer, who's heart was "good" and "honest." Thus, his heart was "not good," being like the soil to which it corresponds, being "shallow" or "rocky," lacking sufficient depth. People who hear and receive the word with joy (emotional response) and believe (in a shallow way) without a good and honest heart, and without having "root" do not experience real salvation.
But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root.." *Problem from the start. Temporary shallow belief that was not firmly rooted or established from the start "has no root" represents rocky soil. Then we see the results of this. *Temporary shallow belief that has no root, lacks moisture, produces no fruit and withers away.
John has portrayed people as "believing" who are clearly not saved. There is a stage in the progress of belief in Jesus that "falls short of authentic, consummated belief that results in salvation." In John 2:23-25 for example we clearly see their belief was superficial in nature.
*Also, in John 8:31-59 where the Jews who were said to have "believed in him" were described by Jesus as slaves to sin, indifferent to the words of Jesus and have no room for His word, children of the devil, liars, and guilty of setting out to kill Jesus by stoning Him, after originally having professed to believe in Him.
The demons also believe "pisteuo" yet they are not saved (James 2:19). Jesus never said they were saved and shallow temporary belief that has no root, produces not fruit and withers away does not represent saving belief. Are you going with what Jesus said in John 8:34-59 in response to the Jews who were said to "believe in Him?"
In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. NO FRUIT AT ALL demonstrates there is NO ROOT.
In CONTRAST, we read in Matthew 13:23 - "And the one on whom seed was sown on the good soil, this is the man who hears the word and understands it; who INDEED BEARS FRUIT and brings forth, some a hundredfold, some sixty, and some thirty." *Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. NO FRUIT AT ALL demonstrates there is NO ROOT.
Who is the "them" in John 10:28,29 who have eternal life and shall never perish, and no man can pluck them out of the Father's hand? It is the sheep of John 10:27: [SUP] "[/SUP]My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me."
When you have a sheep (a Christian) who is listening to God's voice, and God is knowing him, and He is following Jesus, then he is having eternal life and no one is able to pluck him out of God's hand. That is the beautiful truth of John 10:27,28,29. That is what I believe and what I hang on to!
What, then, if you have a "Christian" who is not believing, is not listening, and is not following?
When you have a sheep (a Christian) who is listening to God's voice, and God is knowing him, and He is following Jesus, then he is having eternal life and no one is able to pluck him out of God's hand. That is the beautiful truth of John 10:27,28,29. That is what I believe and what I hang on to!
What, then, if you have a "Christian" who is not believing, is not listening, and is not following?
Instead of catalog of sin we only need to look to Romans 14:23c in which it says that whatever is not of faith (total dependence and approval of God) is sin.This makes us all guilty with unintentional "sinning" and we need His mercy and grace all the time (Lam. 3:22-23).The willful habitual sinner has most likely never been saved, and in the rare case that a person has been saved and lives in willful habitual sin, then the sin unto physical death (Acts 5 ... Ananias & Sapphire).
Eternal life is defined by John in John 17:3 as this:
[SUP] "[/SUP]Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent."
Eternal life (Zoe) is a quality of living; it is knowing God and having a relationship with him. If it was only or primarily "living forever" then unbelievers would also have eternal life. If should be quite obvious that the person who is not believing God and wants nothing to do with God does not have
"eternal life" as it is defined by John.
Eternal life (Zoe) is a quality of living; it is knowing God and having a relationship with him. If it was only or primarily "living forever" then unbelievers would also have eternal life. If should be quite obvious that the person who is not believing God and wants nothing to do with God does not have
"eternal life" as it is defined by John.
It's about truly trusting, not believing. Even the demons believe 
I would say it this way: It is about truly believing, not believing only with the intellect as the demons do. True belief is to rest the soul upon, to grab hold of, to believe "into" and lean upon.
To me, "trusting" is a weaker word than "believing". From a Scriptural view, we are constantly told that we are to believe (pisteuo).