Not By Works

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NoNameMcgee

Guest
here is why i said what i said


1 John 4:10 - Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son [to be] the propitiation for our sins

Romans 5:8 - But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

i believe He loved me before i loved Him

(before i was made new.... and even before i was born)

i believe He loves everyone

but those who love Him

are those who are born again by grace through faith

and it starts mainly with fear

and over the years through seeking Him
and Him revealing more and more of Himself

our love for Him
as well as our ability to love in general
grow




i may be wrong in this
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
9,025
4,444
113
forgive me brother....

but i am confused
:(

are you saying you believe God loves us the moment we are made new?

or are you saying you once believed one way
and now believe another
No.

What I NOW believe is that from the beginning of time God loved me.

For 23 years I did not believe that.

I was loved if I conformed.

For the last 7 years I have been set free from that.

Yet it took 23 years.

We shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

For 23 years I did not know that truth (and still struggle with it)

What is that truth?

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 19:30
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

John 17:23-24
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.24 Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!

There are so many belivers who do not believe that the Father loves us as much as he loves Jesus.

And that is the truth.
That is the truth that sets us free.

Free to love, free to serve, free to come before God with no fear.

Works do not set us free, Jesus does.
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
No.

What I NOW believe is that from the beginning of time God loved me.

For 23 years I did not believe that.

I was loved if I conformed.

For the last 7 years I have been set free from that.

Yet it took 23 years.

We shall know the truth and the truth will set you free.

For 23 years I did not know that truth (and still struggle with it)

What is that truth?

John 3:16
16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

John 19:30
30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.

John 17:23-24
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.24 Father, I want these whom you have given me to be with me where I am. Then they can see all the glory you gave me because you loved me even before the world began!

There are so many belivers who do not believe that the Father loves us as much as he loves Jesus.

And that is the truth.
That is the truth that sets us free.

Free to love, free to serve, free to come before God with no fear.

Works do not set us free, Jesus does.
amen

:eek:


thank you for explaining for me Bill
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Prove the Apostles Creed contrary to the Bible or shut up about it. While the original language of the Bible is the word of God all translations have flaws. So are you conversant in Hebrew, Aramaic, and Jewish ancient Greek? If not you are studying a flawed translation. Probably a very flawed KJV. It suffers from 400 years of language changes. There are words in it that don't exist today and words that have changed meaning.

Your ludicrous claim of Bible only makes you reject the works of sound Christian people writing aids to study the Bible. Your rejection of these demonstrates your blind adherence to a flawed book. All translations have flaws. One thing some of the Bible helps have is discussion of these flaws.

You still haven't told me how you find ALL verses on a subject. To study a subject ALL verses on the subject must be read in context.

So in response to your post.
HA HA HA HA HA HA
Shut up about it? Your the one flappin your lips pushing a creed over the bible.....maybe you should take your own advice.....the bolded makes you as anti-Christian as they come...ONLY the DEVIL would lead one to say what you have said above......serious!
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
ergon: work
Original Word: ἔργον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: ergon
Phonetic Spelling: (er'-gon)
Short Definition: work, labor, action, deed
Definition: work, task, employment; a deed, action; that which is wrought or made, a work.
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
Shut up about it? Your the one flappin your lips pushing a creed over the bible.....maybe you should take your own advice.....the bolded makes you as anti-Christian as they come...ONLY the DEVIL would lead one to say what you have said above......serious!
Hi dc, most denominations that add their "so called", Apostle's Creed to their, "Statement of Faith" and Church by laws, are also liturgical in their form of worship; Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, all abide by a strict "Liturgy."

Some liturgical churches are committed to the "Ecumenical Council of World Wide Churches", not something I would ever wish to be a part of.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
There is only one true Church, the Body of Christ.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
Hi dc, most denominations that add their "so called", Apostle's Creed to their, "Statement of Faith" and Church by laws, are also liturgical in their form of worship; Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, Methodist, all abide by a strict "Liturgy."

Some liturgical churches are committed to the "Ecumenical Council of World Wide Churches", not something I would ever wish to be a part of.
AMEN.....it is ignorant for a believer to say the bible is not enough and then say what was said above.......another one to just ignore......
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
The early elders in response to divisions in the early church created the Apostles Creed to seperate Christians from non Christians. All other issues were to agree to disagree on. Here are two diametrically opposed Christian groups that adhere to the Apostles Creed.
. . .
Agree to disagree!


We do not believe in a memorized, then RECITING that CREED, we believe in a remorseful attitude toward SIN and repentance of Sin, when the HOLY SPIRIT COMES IN, out of PURE LOVE, submitting to the Jesus as LORD (meaning MASTER), and then after we are SAVED, learning out of LOVE FOR HIM to walk in obedience, longing for and watching for His APPEARING IN THE CLOUDS, to Take His BRIDE to heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb.

Do you not believe in Studying the BIBLE? What is the purpose of a MEMORIZED CREED that most people can Recite while they are DAY DREAMING? I know what I am talking about, I used to be a Lutheran from birth on, but I was NOT BORN AGAIN until I was 29. True BELIEF, is not someone that can recite the APOSTLES CREED which was not even made up until late in 3rd Century. TRUE BELIEF, is a Personal, Intimate Relationship with our LORD, receiving HIM in the heart as LORD, meaning Master. I now go to non-denominational, conservative Evangelical style of CHURCH, WHERE Teaching the WORD OF GOD, is the MAJORITY of our one hour and 40 minute Service. AND the Sermon Bible Studies, are VERSE BY VERSE, (explaining the Word and how the scriptures apply to our lives), expositing the WORD for approximate one hour, to teach us, so we will Mature Spiritually. Teaching the WORD that way is FAR, FAR, more valuable, than reciting a MEMORIZED creed.

Why do you think, HE told PETER three times to FEED MY SHEEP!, which is teach them My WORD?

The so called APOSTLES CREED is only Reciting in the Catholic Church, Lutheranism, and Anglicanism and it is also used by Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists. (According to Wikipedia) And maybe in few others, but the vast majority of us, especially those who are evangelicals, TEACH THE WORD, which we find is FAR, FAR more effective than to recite a memorized creed.

Now I will post a typical Doctrinal Statement of FAITH, that I totally agree with.

<><
.t.><>

[FONT=&quot]This doctrinal statement reflects the broad, mainstream, conservative evangelical tradition which is consistent with the teachings of the Bible and which has stood the test of history and experience. We specifically affirm the following doctrinal truths:[/FONT]
  1. The Scriptures
    We believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God and that men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture. The Bible is therefore without error (inerrant) in its original manuscripts. God has supernaturally preserved the Bible, and it is the sole and final authority for faith and life, providing encouragement, guidance, comfort and instruction for training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21).
  2. The Godhead (Trinity)
    We believe in one true God eternally existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) each of Whom is fully and equally God; possesses all of the divine nature and attributes, and is totally worthy of our worship and service (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; John 1:14, John 10:30; 2 Cor. 13:14).
  3. God the Father
    We believe that God the Father is the first person of the Trinity and is the eternal, unchanging all-powerful, all-knowing, all-wise, all-loving, completely just and perfectly holy, sovereign Ruler and Sustainer of the universe. He is the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the Father of all true believers (Gen. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; John 1:12-13, John 5:19-21, John 17:1-5; Isa. 40:21-28, Isa. 43:10-13, Isa. 46:8-11; Rom. 8:14-16).
  4. God the Son
    We believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity and is the only begotten eternal Son of God Who became flesh to reveal God to man, to fulfill prophecy, and to become the Savior of the lost world. In becoming man Jesus did not cease in any way to be God so that He is fully God and fully man inseparably united in one person forever. Jesus was miraculously conceived by the Holy Spirit; born of the Virgin Mary; lived a sinless life; died on the cross as the substitutionary, all-sufficient atoning sacrifice for all of the sins of all men of all time; was buried; bodily rose from the dead; physically ascended into heaven in His glorified, resurrected body; is seated at the right hand of the Father performing His ministry of intercession; will return in the air to claim His bride the church; and will come again to earth in bodily form, personally and visibly, to conclude human history and consummate God’s eternal plan by executing judgment and ushering in His Millennial Kingdom reign to be followed by the eternal state (John 1:1,14,18; John 3:16; Luke 1:30-35; Phil. 2:5-8; Col. 2:3,9; Mark 10:45; Acts 2:22-24; John 1:29; Rom. 3:25-26; Heb. 10:5-14; 1 Pet. 2:24, 1 Pet. 3:18; John 20:20; Phil. 3:20-21; Heb. 1:3; Rom. 8:34; 1 John 2:1; Acts 1:11; Heb. 9:28; 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 2 Thes. 2:7; Matt. 24:44; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 21-22).
  5. God the Holy Spirit
    We believe that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity Who specially came into the world on the day of Pentecost to glorify Christ and to enable men to appropriate the salvation wrought by Christ. He is the primary agent for the conviction of sin and for regeneration. Simultaneously with salvation, the Holy Spirit imparts new life, baptizes the believer into the body of Christ (His church), permanently indwells the believer, and securely seals the believer unto the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit fills (directs and controls) those believers who are yielded to Him, enables believers to bear fruit, and empowers believers to live a life free from sin’s dominion. We also believe that the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts to believers for the purpose of edifying the church in accordance with the teachings of scripture (1 Cor. 13:8, 1 Cor. 14:22; John 16:7-8; 1 Cor. 6:19, 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13-14, Eph. 4:30; Gal. 5:16-17, Gal. 22-23; Rom. 8:5-13; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Rom. 12:3-8).
  6. Man
    We believe that man was created in the image of God by direct act of God and did not come into being as the result of evolution. Man was created to glorify God, worship and serve Him, and have fellowship with Him. Man fell through sin by disobeying God, thus incurring both physical and spiritual death, which alienated him from God. Man’s nature was thus corrupted and he is utterly lost, “dead in trespasses and sins,” and totally incapable of saving himself and coming back into right relationship with God by his own merit or effort (Gen. 1:26, Gen. 2:6,17, Gen. 3:17-24; Isa. 59:1-2; Rom. 3:9-19,23, Rom. 5:8; Luke 18:26-27; Eph. 2:13).
  7. Satan
    We believe that Satan is the instigator of evil and a real spirit being, not simply the personification of evil. He is a fallen angel who, under the sovereign permission of God, has been given temporary rulership of the earth. He was utterly defeated at the cross, but the execution of his judgment has been postponed by God until after the Millennial Kingdom when he will be cast into the eternal lake of fire. In the meantime, he deceives the world and seeks to establish his counterfeit kingdom on earth to discredit and blaspheme God and to tempt, accuse, attack and destroy believers. He can be resisted by the believer through faith and reliance on the power of the Holy Spirit (Gen. 3:1-5; Isa. 14:12-17; Ezek. 28:11-19; Job 1-2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 11:14; 1 Tim. 3:6; 1 Pet. 5:8-9; James 4:7; Rev. 12:9, Rev. 20:1-3, Rev. 7-10).
  8. Salvation
    We believe that the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross provides the sole basis for forgiveness of sins and salvation, which is the free gift of God’s grace. Salvation is effected by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and cannot be secured by man’s works or personal merit. Salvation is only appropriated by a person placing his faith in the finished work of Christ. Repentance is a turning toward God and away from sin and is a part of but not separate from believing faith. “The Gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes” and those who receive Jesus Christ by faith are born again, have their sins forgiven, become children of God, are a new creation in Christ, and “are sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption” being kept by the power of God (Eph. 1:7:13-14; John 1:12-13, John 3:1-7, John 14-16; 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 1:16, Rom. 10:9-10; Eph. 2:8-10; Rom. 8:14-17, Rom. 31-39; John 10:27-29, Rom. 14:6; Acts 26:20; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).
  9. The Christian Life
    We believe that every Christian should live for Christ and not for himself and should, by the power of the indwelling Spirit, allow Christ to manifest His life through him to God’s glory. By ever increasing obedience to the Word of God, each believer should mature and progressively become more like Jesus. In the power of the Spirit, each believer should live a holy life; not fulfill the lusts of the flesh; exercise his spiritual gifts to build up the body of Christ; witness for Christ; be personally involved in making disciples to fulfill the great commission; perform good works and bear fruit to the glory of God (Gal. 2:20; 1 Pet. 1:15-16, 1 Pet. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Rom. 6:11-13; Eph. 2:10, Eph. 4:11-12, Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Acts 1:8; Matt. 28:18-20; Col. 1:10; John 15:8, 16).
  10. The Church
    We believe that the church is the body of Christ of which Jesus is the Head and whose members are those who have truly received Christ by faith. The local church is a tangible expression of the body of Christ in a particular location. Since all members of the body of Christ are united in Christ by the same Spirit, they should live in love, harmony and unity, being intent on the same purpose and accepting those sectarian or denominational practices which are based on a sincere interpretation of the Bible, which do not relate to substantive doctrinal matters, and which do not in practice cause disunity or hinder the ministry. The purpose of the church is to make Christ known to lost men and to make disciples, and glorify God on earth (Acts 1:8; 1 Cor. 12:12-27; Eph. 1:20-23, Eph. 4:1-6, Eph. 4:12-16; Matt. 28:18-20; John 17; Col. 1:24-29).
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
There is only one true Church, the Body of Christ.
Hi LW97, yes that is a true statement, the Church is, "the Body of Christ."

The Body of Christ:
Ephesians1:22,23
22)
And God placed all things under his feet and appointed him to be head over everything for the church,
23) which is his body, the fullness of him who fills everything in every way.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
260
63
We do not believe in a memorized, then RECITING that CREED, we believe in a remorseful attitude toward SIN and repentance of Sin, when the HOLY SPIRIT COMES IN, out of PURE LOVE, submitting to the Jesus as LORD (meaning MASTER), and then after we are SAVED, learning out of LOVE FOR HIM to walk in obedience, longing for and watching for His APPEARING IN THE CLOUDS, to Take His BRIDE to heaven for the Wedding of the Lamb.

Do you not believe in Studying the BIBLE? What is the purpose of a MEMORIZED CREED that most people can Recite while they are DAY DREAMING? I know what I am talking about, I used to be a Lutheran from birth on, but I was NOT BORN AGAIN until I was 29. True BELIEF, is not someone that can recite the APOSTLES CREED which was not even made up until late in 3rd Century. TRUE BELIEF, is a Personal, Intimate Relationship with our LORD, receiving HIM in the heart as LORD, meaning Master. I now go to non-denominational, conservative Evangelical style of CHURCH, WHERE Teaching the WORD OF GOD, is the MAJORITY of our one hour and 40 minute Service. AND the Sermon Bible Studies, are VERSE BY VERSE, (explaining the Word and how the scriptures apply to our lives), expositing the WORD for approximate one hour, to teach us, so we will Mature Spiritually. Teaching the WORD that way is FAR, FAR, more valuable, than reciting a MEMORIZED creed.

Why do you think, HE told PETER three times to FEED MY SHEEP!, which is teach them My WORD?

The so called APOSTLES CREED is only Reciting in the Catholic Church, Lutheranism, and Anglicanism and it is also used by Presbyterians, Methodists and Congregationalists. (According to Wikipedia) And maybe in few others, but the vast majority of us, especially those who are evangelicals, TEACH THE WORD, which we find is FAR, FAR more effective than to recite a memorized creed.

Now I will post a typical Doctrinal Statement of FAITH, that I totally agree with.

<><
.t.><>

This doctrinal statement reflects the broad, mainstream, conservative evangelical tradition which is consistent with the teachings of the Bible and which has stood the test of history and experience. We specifically affirm the following doctrinal truths:
  1. The Scriptures
    We believe that the entire Bible is the inspired Word of God and that men of God “were moved by the Holy Spirit” to write the very words of Scripture. The Bible is therefore without error (inerrant) in its original manuscripts. God has supernaturally preserved the Bible, and it is the sole and final authority for faith and life, providing encouragement, guidance, comfort and instruction for training in righteousness (2 Tim. 3:16-17; 2 Pet. 1:20-21).
  2. The Godhead (Trinity)
    We believe in one true God eternally existing in three distinct persons (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) each of Whom is fully and equally God; possesses all of the divine nature and attributes, and is totally worthy of our worship and service (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; John 1:14, John 10:30; 2 Cor. 13:14).
  3. God the Father
    We believe that God the Father is the first person of the Trinity and is the eternal, unchanging all-powerful, all-knowing, all-wise, all-loving, completely just and perfectly holy, sovereign Ruler and Sustainer of the universe. He is the Father of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and the Father of all true believers (Gen. 1:1; Eph. 4:6; John 1:12-13, John 5:19-21, John 17:1-5; Isa. 40:21-28, Isa. 43:10-13, Isa. 46:8-11; Rom. 8:14-16).
  4. God the Son
    We believe that Jesus Christ is the second person of the Trinity and is the only begotten eternal Son of God Who became flesh to reveal God to man, to fulfill prophecy, and to become the Savior of the lost world. In becoming man Jesus did not cease in any way to be God so that He is fully God and fully man inseparably united in one person forever. Jesus was miraculously conceived by the Holy Spirit; born of the Virgin Mary; lived a sinless life; died on the cross as the substitutionary, all-sufficient atoning sacrifice for all of the sins of all men of all time; was buried; bodily rose from the dead; physically ascended into heaven in His glorified, resurrected body; is seated at the right hand of the Father performing His ministry of intercession; will return in the air to claim His bride the church; and will come again to earth in bodily form, personally and visibly, to conclude human history and consummate God’s eternal plan by executing judgment and ushering in His Millennial Kingdom reign to be followed by the eternal state (John 1:1,14,18; John 3:16; Luke 1:30-35; Phil. 2:5-8; Col. 2:3,9; Mark 10:45; Acts 2:22-24; John 1:29; Rom. 3:25-26; Heb. 10:5-14; 1 Pet. 2:24, 1 Pet. 3:18; John 20:20; Phil. 3:20-21; Heb. 1:3; Rom. 8:34; 1 John 2:1; Acts 1:11; Heb. 9:28; 1 Thes. 4:13-18; 2 Thes. 2:7; Matt. 24:44; Rev. 19:11-21; Rev. 21-22).
  5. God the Holy Spirit
    We believe that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the Trinity Who specially came into the world on the day of Pentecost to glorify Christ and to enable men to appropriate the salvation wrought by Christ. He is the primary agent for the conviction of sin and for regeneration. Simultaneously with salvation, the Holy Spirit imparts new life, baptizes the believer into the body of Christ (His church), permanently indwells the believer, and securely seals the believer unto the day of redemption. The Holy Spirit fills (directs and controls) those believers who are yielded to Him, enables believers to bear fruit, and empowers believers to live a life free from sin’s dominion. We also believe that the Holy Spirit gives spiritual gifts to believers for the purpose of edifying the church in accordance with the teachings of scripture (1 Cor. 13:8, 1 Cor. 14:22; John 16:7-8; 1 Cor. 6:19, 1 Cor. 12:13; Eph. 1:13-14, Eph. 4:30; Gal. 5:16-17, Gal. 22-23; Rom. 8:5-13; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Rom. 12:3-8).
  6. Man
    We believe that man was created in the image of God by direct act of God and did not come into being as the result of evolution. Man was created to glorify God, worship and serve Him, and have fellowship with Him. Man fell through sin by disobeying God, thus incurring both physical and spiritual death, which alienated him from God. Man’s nature was thus corrupted and he is utterly lost, “dead in trespasses and sins,” and totally incapable of saving himself and coming back into right relationship with God by his own merit or effort (Gen. 1:26, Gen. 2:6,17, Gen. 3:17-24; Isa. 59:1-2; Rom. 3:9-19,23, Rom. 5:8; Luke 18:26-27; Eph. 2:13).
  7. Satan
    We believe that Satan is the instigator of evil and a real spirit being, not simply the personification of evil. He is a fallen angel who, under the sovereign permission of God, has been given temporary rulership of the earth. He was utterly defeated at the cross, but the execution of his judgment has been postponed by God until after the Millennial Kingdom when he will be cast into the eternal lake of fire. In the meantime, he deceives the world and seeks to establish his counterfeit kingdom on earth to discredit and blaspheme God and to tempt, accuse, attack and destroy believers. He can be resisted by the believer through faith and reliance on the power of the Holy Spirit (Gen. 3:1-5; Isa. 14:12-17; Ezek. 28:11-19; Job 1-2; 1 John 5:19; 2 Cor. 11:14; 1 Tim. 3:6; 1 Pet. 5:8-9; James 4:7; Rev. 12:9, Rev. 20:1-3, Rev. 7-10).
  8. Salvation
    We believe that the shed blood of Jesus Christ on the cross provides the sole basis for forgiveness of sins and salvation, which is the free gift of God’s grace. Salvation is effected by the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit and cannot be secured by man’s works or personal merit. Salvation is only appropriated by a person placing his faith in the finished work of Christ. Repentance is a turning toward God and away from sin and is a part of but not separate from believing faith. “The Gospel is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes” and those who receive Jesus Christ by faith are born again, have their sins forgiven, become children of God, are a new creation in Christ, and “are sealed by the Holy spirit unto the day of redemption” being kept by the power of God (Eph. 1:7:13-14; John 1:12-13, John 3:1-7, John 14-16; 2 Cor. 5:17; Rom. 1:16, Rom. 10:9-10; Eph. 2:8-10; Rom. 8:14-17, Rom. 31-39; John 10:27-29, Rom. 14:6; Acts 26:20; 1 Pet. 1:3-5).
  9. The Christian Life
    We believe that every Christian should live for Christ and not for himself and should, by the power of the indwelling Spirit, allow Christ to manifest His life through him to God’s glory. By ever increasing obedience to the Word of God, each believer should mature and progressively become more like Jesus. In the power of the Spirit, each believer should live a holy life; not fulfill the lusts of the flesh; exercise his spiritual gifts to build up the body of Christ; witness for Christ; be personally involved in making disciples to fulfill the great commission; perform good works and bear fruit to the glory of God (Gal. 2:20; 1 Pet. 1:15-16, 1 Pet. 2:11; 2 Cor. 5:14-15; Rom. 6:11-13; Eph. 2:10, Eph. 4:11-12, Eph. 4:22-24; 1 Pet. 4:10-11; Acts 1:8; Matt. 28:18-20; Col. 1:10; John 15:8, 16).
  10. The Church
    We believe that the church is the body of Christ of which Jesus is the Head and whose members are those who have truly received Christ by faith. The local church is a tangible expression of the body of Christ in a particular location. Since all members of the body of Christ are united in Christ by the same Spirit, they should live in love, harmony and unity, being intent on the same purpose and accepting those sectarian or denominational practices which are based on a sincere interpretation of the Bible, which do not relate to substantive doctrinal matters, and which do not in practice cause disunity or hinder the ministry. The purpose of the church is to make Christ known to lost men and to make disciples, and glorify God on earth (Acts 1:8; 1 Cor. 12:12-27; Eph. 1:20-23, Eph. 4:1-6, Eph. 4:12-16; Matt. 28:18-20; John 17; Col. 1:24-29).
You are a little wrong on biblical repentance tho:
[h=1]3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")[/h]
 

TruthTalk

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2017
2,904
2,262
113
AMEN.....it is ignorant for a believer to say the bible is not enough and then say what was said above.......another one to just ignore......
Sadly some people will be caught up in the false church during the end times, a pity.
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
I would say there's no such thing as abusing grace. We are only walking in grace when we don't sin.
I cannot agree with this...
This statement makes grace conditional...which violates its definition!

Also, if there is no sin then is no requirement for grace...

I think a rethink of this statement is necessary!
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
4,028
400
83
Yeah, that is true. When it says "faith without works is dead", then it talks about justification before men.
Wrong. Keeping it simple with a logic implication. A implies B
If the first is true the second must be true.
It says that when a person is saved by grace through faith works will be the result.
Saved by grace through faith implies works.
No works means no grace through faith exists.
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
You are a little wrong on biblical repentance tho:
3340 metanoéō (from 3326 /metá, "changed after being with" and 3539 /noiéō, "think") – properly, "think differently after," "after a change of mind"; to repent (literally, "think differently afterwards")
REPENT, is an about face, from walking contrary to God's will, to WALKING ACCORDING TO GOD'S WILL.
 

Endoscopy

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2017
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Shut up about it? Your the one flappin your lips pushing a creed over the bible.....maybe you should take your own advice.....the bolded makes you as anti-Christian as they come...ONLY the DEVIL would lead one to say what you have said above......serious!
You are being extremely foolish stating I am led by the devil. If that is the case then the early church was led by the devil. They created the Apostles Creed. You must think any denomination that doesn't believe exactly what you believe in the peripheral issues is of the devil!!! Explain in detail how the ancient Creed developed by the early elders is wrong and of the devil!! You just dug yourself a deep hole to get out of. This is supposed to be a Christian site where we can discuss different issues in a Christian manner. Claiming someone is of the devil is just a fallacious ad hominem attack not discussion. To make that claim YOU MUST HAVE BIBLICAL PROOF!!! Bring it on.

I have issues with the different denominations in peripheral issues while understanding they are Christians.

My beliefs

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of Heaven and Earth.
I believe in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord.
I believe Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit
I believe Jesus was born of the virgin Mary.
I believe Jesus suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried.
I believe the third day he rose again from the dead.
I believe He ascended into Heaven, and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from there He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit.
I believe the holy universal church
I believe in the communion of saints.
I believe in the forgiveness of sins.
I believe in the resurrection of the body.
I believe in life everlasting.

Wherein am I wrong??