Hebrews 10:26-31

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LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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Believers (present tense) will NEVER perish.

That does not apply to ex-believers. The promise is for BELIEVERS, not former believers, or those who never believed.
There is no such thing as an ex believer. If he says never, then it's never
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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If that were true then all Christians would love their neighbor.

But we can plainly see just from the evidence of this Christian forum and others that actually very few Christians have an intimate 'knowing' relationship with Christ. Christ knows them in salvation but they do not know him intimately.

He knows us before we know him intimately. We mature and grow up into that intimacy. We know we have matured to that level of intimacy by if we are obedient to the command to love others.


"Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God. 8Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love."-1 John 4:7-8
There is a difference between sonship and fellowship
 
Sep 4, 2012
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Believers (present tense) will NEVER perish.

That does not apply to ex-believers. The promise is for BELIEVERS, not former believers, or those who never believed.
I understand what you're saying and agree. There is a problem with the language though because so many readily swap out belief (working faith) with belief (mere mental assent).
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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I understand what you're saying and agree. There is a problem with the language though because so many readily swap out belief (working faith) with belief (mere mental assent).
What does "NEVER" mean to you?
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
If a person could lose his salvation, there was no chastisement. God would just say "well, OK, I'll let you jump off the narrow road, you have to get back by yourself". But there IS chastisement.
Without a doubt there is chastisement.

You'll have a struggle trying to wrest free of God's grace in salvation. But like I say, the weaker and less grounded the word is in you the easier and more likely it can be uprooted and removed from your heart.

That's why it's important for believers to grow up in their faith and into a mature, fruit producing 'knowing' relationship with God and into the kind of person who can not be moved from the truth of the gospel.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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There is no such thing as an ex believer. If he says never, then it's never
I once conversed with a fellow who believes like you do, and he said that a person who confessed Christ once, then apostatized would be saved.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
There is no such thing as an ex believer.
And so that's what you believe.
You're entitled to your own beliefs.



If he says never, then it's never
Just don't ignore the condition for never being able to perish.
That's all.

If you want to think no Christian can ever stop believing, that's fine. At least you seem to agree that you have to keep believing to continue to be saved. That's what matters.
 
Dec 28, 2016
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I once conversed with a fellow who believes like you do, and he said that a person who confessed Christ once, then apostatized would be saved.
He got that nonsense most likely from FGT, Zane Hodges, Lewis Sperry Chafer and DTS. He may not know he got it from there, but the hand me down teachings that espouse this view stems from those aforementioned.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
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And so that's what you believe.
You're entitled to your own beliefs.




Just don't ignore the condition for never being able to perish.
That's all.

If you want to think no Christian can ever stop believing, that's fine. At least you seem to agree that you have to keep believing to continue to be saved. That's what matters.
The Bible doesn't say that. a Christian can pretend to stop believing, but the faith will remain in the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not say to the lost men "I no longer know you", but "I never knew you".
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
I once conversed with a fellow who believes like you do, and he said that a person who confessed Christ once, then apostatized would be saved.
That is called Hyper-grace doctrine. A most damnable doctrine.

It's the polar opposite of the works gospel. It is what the church has to presently contend with in this time in history. But it's proving not to be much of a fight. I think it will win out in this time just before Christ's return. It's the great falling away prophesied in scripture.
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
246
63
He got that nonsense most likely from FGT, Zane Hodges, Lewis Sperry Chafer and DTS. He may not know he got it from there, but the hand me down teachings that espouse this view stems from those aforementioned.
The problem about Zane Hodges is that he taught a crossless Gospel in his last years
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
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That is called Hyper-grace doctrine. A most damnable doctrine.

It's the polar opposite of the works gospel. It is what the church has to presently contend with in this time in history. But it's proving not to be much of a fight. I think it will win out in this time just before Christ's return. It's the great falling away prophesied in scripture.
Zane Hodges taught Free Grace, not Hyper Grace
 
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Ralph-

Guest
The Bible doesn't say that. a Christian can pretend to stop believing, but the faith will remain in the Holy Spirit. Jesus did not say to the lost men "I no longer know you", but "I never knew you".
These people of whom he will say, 'I never knew you' never knew him.

If they had grown to 'know' him they would not have fallen away.

It is the weak, immature believer in whom the word is not deeply rooted that is in danger of falling away. They never knew Christ for them to be deeply rooted believers who will persevere to the end.
 
R

Ralph-

Guest
What say you to me.

Never lost my faith in Jesus, the truth that he is the Son of God who died and rose again.

Would you write me off like many did?

Be honest
No.

Not going to church or not serving in some kind of program at church does not equate to falling away from faith in Christ. But there are probably lots of people who think it does.
 
Sep 4, 2012
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That is called Hyper-grace doctrine. A most damnable doctrine.

It's the polar opposite of the works gospel. It is what the church has to presently contend with in this time in history. But it's proving not to be much of a fight. I think it will win out in this time just before Christ's return. It's the great falling away prophesied in scripture.
There are differences between Free Grace and Hyper-Grace doctrines. The former is a reaction against lordship salvation doctrine (James MacArthur) and the latter evolved out of the word of faith movement (Prince).
 

LW97

Senior Member
Apr 10, 2018
1,140
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These people of whom he will say, 'I never knew you' never knew him.

If they had grown to 'know' him they would not have fallen away.

It is the weak, immature believer in whom the word is not deeply rooted that is in danger of falling away. They never knew Christ for them to be deeply rooted believers who will persevere to the end.
Every saved man once knew Christ.