Time and once saved
- Thread starter RickyZ
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I agree about proposing time as an eternal wheel, a time line is how we humans measure the existence of time but the issue with that is that it requires both a beginning and an end. If in fact time itself officially started when adam and eve fell from grace that could be an option however in reality time itself doesn't even exist at least not in the way we understand it. In our minds time exists because it's how our brains were taught to measure, as an infant pure and new you have no concept of time it simply doesn't exist all that exists is you and your loving parents and this is how it was for adam and eve at first with God in paradise.
When we became sinners we then took on a different kind of mind set, a wrong mind set. We no longer thought as eternal because we lived in our flesh and sin but God is eternal and so his conception of time is so much more different than ours, which is why trying to understand osas with our understanding and concept of how time works and how God works with it will ultimately fall short because we have yet to be able to understand and think eternally. As far as I understand for God there is no beginning or end he exists where time simply doesn't. I don't know if you remember Ricky but I have spoken on occasion how I have been to the spiritual realm and I mentioned how it was as if time and space didn't exist there, I mean if I was to estimate in our time understanding I was there for maybe little less than five minutes but I woke up and it was morning that was over 8 hours of sleep here but if time was to be calculated there it was maybe five minutes.
But again this is me not thinking eternally, to gain understanding of the osas we simply must obtain eternal thinking which of course is contrary to the flesh because pretty much everything we do and think is not in understanding of eternal rather it is our human understanding and thinking this is why the holy spirit is our crutch because we are not good at thinking or understanding eternally. Now I am not saying it is impossible, true we can't fully think and understand eternally but I believe if anything is possible with God then if one would seek such high thinking and understanding then they will find
When we became sinners we then took on a different kind of mind set, a wrong mind set. We no longer thought as eternal because we lived in our flesh and sin but God is eternal and so his conception of time is so much more different than ours, which is why trying to understand osas with our understanding and concept of how time works and how God works with it will ultimately fall short because we have yet to be able to understand and think eternally. As far as I understand for God there is no beginning or end he exists where time simply doesn't. I don't know if you remember Ricky but I have spoken on occasion how I have been to the spiritual realm and I mentioned how it was as if time and space didn't exist there, I mean if I was to estimate in our time understanding I was there for maybe little less than five minutes but I woke up and it was morning that was over 8 hours of sleep here but if time was to be calculated there it was maybe five minutes.
But again this is me not thinking eternally, to gain understanding of the osas we simply must obtain eternal thinking which of course is contrary to the flesh because pretty much everything we do and think is not in understanding of eternal rather it is our human understanding and thinking this is why the holy spirit is our crutch because we are not good at thinking or understanding eternally. Now I am not saying it is impossible, true we can't fully think and understand eternally but I believe if anything is possible with God then if one would seek such high thinking and understanding then they will find
Last edited:
I had hoped this wouldn't become an osas thread, but one discussing how all scriptures can be made to speak in harmony instead of being played against each other.
But I knew it was inevitable
!
But I knew it was inevitable
!
You are your mother and father's child regardless what you do, what you say, or even if YOU reject them. All we gotta do is check your DNA to prove it.
Well, if we are born again, a NEW creation, a child born of the spirit, a child of God, then we are our Father's Child regardless. We can't, NOR WOULD ANYONE WANT, to change that. We are His by BIRTH!
So the real question isn't "Can a born again child of God lose his Salvation", but rather "Am I a born again child of God".
OSAS is based on unbelief and fear and denies the faithfulness God requires for salvation.
Because the scripture states that...
Without faith it is impossible to please God
it is proven that only faithfulness pleases God.
Thus, if Jesus comes and finds you don’t have faith in him you will be denied by him.
Jesus taught that at his return he will declare one of three possible relational judgments...
1. He never knew you. (Because you never trusted Jesus)
2. He doesn’t know you. (Because you fell away from him in unbelief)
3. He does know you. (Because you remained faithful)
Because the scripture states that...
Without faith it is impossible to please God
it is proven that only faithfulness pleases God.
Thus, if Jesus comes and finds you don’t have faith in him you will be denied by him.
Jesus taught that at his return he will declare one of three possible relational judgments...
1. He never knew you. (Because you never trusted Jesus)
2. He doesn’t know you. (Because you fell away from him in unbelief)
3. He does know you. (Because you remained faithful)
Two apposing groups of people in Hebrews 6 .Those who do nothave salvation and those who receive the better thing that accompanies salivation…actual redemption(eternal life) of their soul and not just a kick start placing them where Adam and Eve before the fall.
Tasting and seeing is not eating by faith… the spiritualfood the disciples at first knew nothing of .
Judas participated in many mannerof tasting.We can look at the example of the five thousand that tasted of themiracle of bread and were informed of the Way. Not all were born again believers
The incorruptible seed of Christ by which men are born again is incorruptible.
They were partakers of the Holy Spirit in the sense that God the Holy Spirit overshadowed them in the day in the clouds and at nigh ttime in the pillar of fire. They were enlightened, in the sense that Moses was there teaching them about the way of salvation. He was teaching them aboutthe Promised Land, and all that went with it, and about obedience to God. Allof these expressions you find in Hebrews 6 would apply to the nation of Israel.
But you read in Hebrews 3, in the closing verses, that most of them perished in the wilderness because of unbelief. Their knowledge,their enlightenment, the fact that they were in the presence of the Holy Spirit, and all of these other things, availed nothing because it did not meet with faith in the lives of those who experienced these things.
Tasting and seeing is not eating by faith… the spiritualfood the disciples at first knew nothing of .
Judas participated in many mannerof tasting.We can look at the example of the five thousand that tasted of themiracle of bread and were informed of the Way. Not all were born again believers
The incorruptible seed of Christ by which men are born again is incorruptible.
They were partakers of the Holy Spirit in the sense that God the Holy Spirit overshadowed them in the day in the clouds and at nigh ttime in the pillar of fire. They were enlightened, in the sense that Moses was there teaching them about the way of salvation. He was teaching them aboutthe Promised Land, and all that went with it, and about obedience to God. Allof these expressions you find in Hebrews 6 would apply to the nation of Israel.
But you read in Hebrews 3, in the closing verses, that most of them perished in the wilderness because of unbelief. Their knowledge,their enlightenment, the fact that they were in the presence of the Holy Spirit, and all of these other things, availed nothing because it did not meet with faith in the lives of those who experienced these things.
Last edited:
New International Version
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
New Living Translation
This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
English Standard Version
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
New American Standard Bible
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
King James Bible
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Living is an ongoing thing, eternally-grateful. All the time we live, we live by faith. The epistles never say we believed by faith(past tense), but we believe (present tense) by faith. I will believe by faith today, then tomorrow, & every day after that.
For in the gospel the righteousness of God is revealed--a righteousness that is by faith from first to last, just as it is written: "The righteous will live by faith."
New Living Translation
This Good News tells us how God makes us right in his sight. This is accomplished from start to finish by faith. As the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
English Standard Version
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “The righteous shall live by faith.”
New American Standard Bible
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, "BUT THE RIGHTEOUS man SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
King James Bible
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Living is an ongoing thing, eternally-grateful. All the time we live, we live by faith. The epistles never say we believed by faith(past tense), but we believe (present tense) by faith. I will believe by faith today, then tomorrow, & every day after that.
2 Corinthians 5:7
New Living Translation
For we live by believing and not by seeing.
English Standard Version
for we walk by faith, not by sight.
New American Standard Bible
for we walk by faith, not by sight--
Our walk is our lifestyle. Every day it is by faith.
New Living Translation
For we live by believing and not by seeing.
English Standard Version
for we walk by faith, not by sight.
New American Standard Bible
for we walk by faith, not by sight--
Our walk is our lifestyle. Every day it is by faith.
Galatians 2:20
New International Version
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New Living Translation
My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
English Standard Version
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New American Standard Bible
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
New International Version
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New Living Translation
My old self has been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me. So I live in this earthly body by trusting in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
English Standard Version
I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.
New American Standard Bible
"I have been crucified with Christ; and it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me.
New International Version
Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith."
New Living Translation
So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
English Standard Version
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Berean Study Bible
And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
Gal 3:11
New American Standard Bible
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Clearly no one who relies on the law is justified before God, because "the righteous will live by faith."
New Living Translation
So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, "It is through faith that a righteous person has life."
English Standard Version
Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.”
Berean Study Bible
And it is clear that no one is justified before God by the Law, because, "The righteous will live by faith."
Gal 3:11
New American Standard Bible
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."
Psalm 85:8
New International Version
I will listen to what God the LORD says; he promises peace to his people, his faithful servants-- but let them not turn to folly.
New Living Translation
I listen carefully to what God the LORD is saying, for he speaks peace to his faithful people. But let them not return to their foolish ways.
New International Version
I will listen to what God the LORD says; he promises peace to his people, his faithful servants-- but let them not turn to folly.
New Living Translation
I listen carefully to what God the LORD is saying, for he speaks peace to his faithful people. But let them not return to their foolish ways.
I think we can address the points #2 and show that they are not dealing with eternal judgment.
I also want to harmonize Scripture. I have found the clearest ones to the be the paradigm I must see all the rest through.
One of the clearest ones is that those who believe in Me have passed from death to life.
We aren't even trying to get eternal life, if we are in Christ, we already have it. The process of eternal life is what we are surrendering to. This fruit is the EVIDENCE of Who we are united with. According to the Scriptures: He is our Vine and we are His branches. He is eternal life. It's not something that exists apart from Him. Life is a Person. And eternal life is to know Him.
I also want to harmonize Scripture. I have found the clearest ones to the be the paradigm I must see all the rest through.
One of the clearest ones is that those who believe in Me have passed from death to life.
We aren't even trying to get eternal life, if we are in Christ, we already have it. The process of eternal life is what we are surrendering to. This fruit is the EVIDENCE of Who we are united with. According to the Scriptures: He is our Vine and we are His branches. He is eternal life. It's not something that exists apart from Him. Life is a Person. And eternal life is to know Him.
And that is the whole point. How do we tie our timed-base lives to God's timeless realm? I think there is so much we don't understand because of this very juxtaposition. This is the best way I've seen so far to visualize how that relationship might work - and therefore how scriptures that say two very different things can indeed coexist. I don't know if you saw the tine and eternity thread, and the example of how praise and thanksgiving given after an answered prayer could be the key getting that prayer answered?
osas is unbalenced .
"Because the Father has reconciled us to Himself in Christ, therefore He commands us to be conformed to Christ as to our pattern.” Indeed, he continues, “Unless we ardently and prayerfully devote ourselves to Christ’s righteousness we do not only faithlessly revolt from our Creator, but we also abjure Him as our Savior.”
who said this ?
and who said this ?:
- God has revealed Himself as a Father; therefore, we should behave as His children. Christ has purified us through His blood; therefore, we should not become defiled by fresh pollution."
- and :
- "Christ has united us to His body as His members; therefore, we should not disgrace Him by any blemish."
- John Calvin did.
Calvin leaves no room for a middle ground. Either we ardently pursue the example of Christ or else we strongly renounce Him by our conduct and lifestyle. How different this standard is from the attitude of so many of today’s Christians, who are quite casual or halfhearted in their pursuit of Christlikeness. But from Calvin’s matter-of-fact writing style, it is clear that he regards a zealous pursuit of holiness as the normal Christian life.
For Calvin, there is no such thing as the so-called “carnal Christian.” Rather, he writes, “The apostle denies that anyone actually knows Christ who has not learned to put off the old man, corrupt with deceitful lusts, and to put on Christ.”
Calvin spoke greatly of holiness . many who tip toe through the tulips seem to have missed this osas message .
The problem you have is that you believe reading the ‘gospel’ is hearing the word of God.
In such, you conclude that you believe you have heard the word of God but faith is the substance of thing(s) hoped for, since hope that is seen is not hope, so your hope in seeing is not hope and without substance hope is not faith.
So having heard, I am not dismissing the gospel, but rather patiently resting in the hope I have in the hand that saved me.
In such, you conclude that you believe you have heard the word of God but faith is the substance of thing(s) hoped for, since hope that is seen is not hope, so your hope in seeing is not hope and without substance hope is not faith.
So having heard, I am not dismissing the gospel, but rather patiently resting in the hope I have in the hand that saved me.
