Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

Keep repeating your failure to read the reply already given. It does not matter how many time s a lie is repeated it is still a lie.

Who are you to put down some kind of personal law applied to others. Just read the repl already given. You are unique.

The truth is even your repeated questions have ceased to make any sense.

Jackson123 said:

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

why not just answer my simple question, yes or no question.

are you agree with apostle Paul that say, after faith we no longer under the law?

why you afraid to make direct answer? Remind me LGF, never answer the question that make him know that he isn't in agreement with Bible.

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

Jackson123 said:

ither you have not read all of what Paul had written or you are being dishonest;

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:28, “For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Romans 3:31, “Are we then doing away with the Law* through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law*!”[/FONT]

E

Gabriel2020 · Apr 18, 2018

A christian is only under the old law that is for sinners only if his heart is not set toward GOD AND NOT OBEYING ALL THE COMMANDMENTS. Those commandments are the laws of God. By not being under the old law make you do the things opposite to what a sinner does.,and those things are Love, and passion for one another. That is why those laws were written in the first place, not to prove that any of them was righteous, but to prove to them that their hearts were unrighteous,and not knowin the will of God.

graceNpeace · Apr 18, 2018

Shamah said:

Obviously you are having trouble reading simple English...
What this answer has to do with my response to JaumeJ is beyond me...

graceNpeace · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

Your answer has absolutely nothing to do with my response to your previous post...

I will say it again: becoming a Christian (being born again) has nothing to do with one's knowledge of the Torah.
No one I evangelised, apart from a couple of real Jews, had any clue of what the Torah was about, when they repented of their sins and accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Saviour.

To assert that knowledge of the Torah is what brings people to Jesus Christ is absurd - unless they actually happen to be Jews who do know the Torah....

Some fo you need to start living in the real world!
Try witnessing sometime to the unsaved - it will give you a healthy appreciation of what is important...

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

Shamah said:

So you quote these verse above to tell me that we are under the law?

To me Paul say, we aren't under the law, but we establish the law.

so for you under mean establish.

let see what is definition of under, and establish

[h=2]Definition of under[/h]1: in or into a position below or beneath something
2: below or short of some quantity, level, or limit

$10 or under

—often used in combination

understaffed

3: in or into a condition of subjection, subordination, or unconsciousness

put the patient under for surgery

4: down to defeat, ruin, or death

weaker competitors will be forced under

5: so as to be covered

buried under by the avalanche

[h=2]Definition of establish[/h]transitive verb
1: to institute (something, such as a law) permanently by enactment or agreement
2obsolete : settle 7
3a : to make firm or stable b : to introduce and cause to grow and multiply

establish grass on pasturelands

4a : to bring into existence : found

established a republic

b : bring about, effect

established friendly relations

5a : to put on a firm basis : set up

establish his son in business

b : to put into a favorable position c : to gain full recognition or acceptance of

the role established her as a star

6: to make (a church) a national or state institution
7: to put beyond doubt : prove

established my innocence

— [h=2]establishable[/h] play \i-ˈsta-bli-shə-bəl\

graceNpeace · Apr 18, 2018

Shamah said:

Cherry-picking verses out of context gets you nowhere....
The law Paul is referring to cannot be the Torah.
If it did it makes an utter complete nonsense of the ENTIRE letter to the Galatians as well as the narrative of the Jerusalem Council articulated in Acts chapter 15.
Paul in several other communications makes it clear that New covenant believers are NOT under the Law (Torah).

The law that Paul refers to is made clear a few verses back: it is "[FONT=&quot]the law of faith.[/FONT]" Rom 3:27.
Context makes this abundantly clear that this is NOT the Torah since Paul compares and contrasts the Torah and its observance with this "[FONT=&quot]law of faith.[/FONT]" Rom 3:27

I am abundantly aware that for a legalist this is anathema but I write it for those who might otherwise be tempted by the New Age Judaizers!

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

graceNpeace said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 Yahanan /John 2:3-7, “And by this we know that we know Him, if we guard His commands. The one who says, “I know Him,” and does not guard His commands, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But whoever guards His Word, truly the love of Yah has been perfected in him. By this we know that we are in Him. The one who says he stays in Him ought himself also to walk, even as He walked. Beloved, I write no fresh command to you, but an old command which you have had from the beginning. The old command is the Word which you heard from the beginning.”[/FONT]

From the beginning..

frame it how you will, I call it loving Yah and other humans:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 4:19, “We love Him because He first loved us.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Exodus 20:6, “But showing love to thousands who love Me by keeping My Laws.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:15, “If you love Me, keep My commandments.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

Shamah · Apr 18, 2018

Might I remind everyone:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Acts 3:22-23, “For Mosheh truly said to the fathers, ‘[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]your Mighty One shall raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brothers. Him you shall hear according to all matters, whatever He says to you. And it shall be that every being who does not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.”[/FONT][/FONT]

Yahshua/Jesus is the Sent One, there is no other, be careful who you make your master, there is only One Master, Yahshua.

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

This response is availed at least tfive times within the thread of this post, at leasst once to you.

Please stp acting as though you are interrogating anyone and post in truth.

Jackson123 said:

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

Beware of false brethren who deign asking a question they already know the answer to from you. It is a technique to deceive other readers...........treat such as non-believers since they do not reprnt of this activity.

Shamah said:

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

Shamah said:

I am impressed with your last sentence

Yahshua/Jesus is the sent one, there is no other, ............

so you have a faith in Him.

Than come to Him, He will give you rest/sabbath. Real sabbath. Sabbath in your soul.

matt 11

28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Ot sabbath is shadow of sabbath of this verse above.

Jackson123 · Apr 18, 2018

JaumeJ said:

You keep repeat your technique not to answer, when you know your false teaching will uncover with that answer.

Be honest in discussions dear, or the devil will keep his false teaching on you.

If you teaching biblical, why you not answer simple question

do you agree with apostle Paul that say, after faith, we no longer under the law?

chose a or b, below for your answer

a agree

b not agree

posthuman · Apr 18, 2018

Studyman said:

no, in fact it does not say "a change in the covenant" -- it says "a new covenant"

not an amendment to the contract. a new contract.
not the green suit with a dye job. a totally different suit.

just like Jeremiah 31 doesn't say "same covenant, new priesthood" -- it says "new covenant"

Studyman said:

notice here that the priests operate according to the Law
-- change in priesthood necessarily means a change in law. therefore priesthood is certainly part of the Law, and if priesthood is "changed" i.e. the same Sinai contract remains but has only been altered by the deletion of all mention of the name Levi, that's removing jots and tittles.
-- direct contradiction between "nothing has been removed" and "priesthood has been changed"
priesthood is included in "the Law"

Studyman said:

again, clearly not a "change to" the covenant. an entirely new covenant. a "change of"
a new suit; a different one, not the same one re-colored. by saying "second" the first is no more, if ye would enter into the new.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(Hebrews 8:13)

what constitutes the old covenant?

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
(Deuteronomy 4:13)

should we listen to what it says? yes!

But what does Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
(Galatians 4:30)

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
the Bible doesn't make the distinction between priesthood, diet, moral, ceremonial "law" etc that people who want to stay under the slave woman make.
the Bible presents the law of the covenant made at Horeb as one law -- and in Christ, by being crucified with Him, "through the law i died to the law" in order to be made free

does "i died to the law" mean i died only to the priesthood?
or does "i died to the law" mean "i died to the law" ?

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

when you have to replace the words in scripture with your own words and change how it defines itself into how you want it to be defined, you've got a problem.

when you have God changing the terms of a contract after its been signed and ratified, you're making God evil.

posthuman · Apr 18, 2018

the old covenant stands to judge all who are not brought into the new. no jot removed, no tittle removed -- not even the priesthood. want to make an orthodox Jew weep? ask him how his sins are remitted with no temple and no sacrifices. he is under the old covenant, and has no hope in it.

if you are in Christ, you are not under the old covenant. to the Law of the old covenant ((10 commandments inclusive, see Deut. 4:13 -- incontrovertible)) you have died and by it you can no longer be condemned. does that mean we are lawless?? of course not! we serve by the Spirit according to the law of liberty; the law of our King who says love, as I have loved. through this every righteousness of the Law of the Horeb covenant is fulfilled, though the letter - which has no power over us, even as thereby the power of sin is destroyed - is not required of those who are dead to it.

if you try to cram Christians under any part of the old covenant you have no choice but to start deleting jots and tittles. if you die with Him, in order to live, nothing is removed save its power over you to judge and condemn

He has given us victory over transgression by His obedience !

JaumeJ · Apr 18, 2018

Here below is your mention and my own reply to your burning issue. Now I AM NOT GOING TO RESPOND TO YOUR NOT READING THE POSTS to which you say are not answers to your question. You have , in effect, lied to all who read your repeated questio that has been responded to.........if you ask again, I can only think you are possessed by some kind of spirit other than the Holy Spirit.

Jackson123 said:

JaumeJ said:

Studyman · Apr 18, 2018

posthuman said:

no, in fact it does not say "a change in the covenant" -- it says "a new covenant"

not an amendment to the contract. a new contract.
not the green suit with a dye job. a totally different suit.

just like Jeremiah 31 doesn't say "same covenant, new priesthood" -- it says "new covenant"

notice here that the priests operate according to the Law
-- change in priesthood necessarily means a change in law. therefore priesthood is certainly part of the Law, and if priesthood is "changed" i.e. the same Sinai contract remains but has only been altered by the deletion of all mention of the name Levi, that's removing jots and tittles.
-- direct contradiction between "nothing has been removed" and "priesthood has been changed"
priesthood is included in "the Law"

again, clearly not a "change to" the covenant. an entirely new covenant. a "change of"
a new suit; a different one, not the same one re-colored. by saying "second" the first is no more, if ye would enter into the new.

In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
(Hebrews 8:13)

what constitutes the old covenant?

And he declared unto you his covenant, which he commanded you to perform, even ten commandments; and he wrote them upon two tables of stone.
(Deuteronomy 4:13)

should we listen to what it says? yes!

But what does Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
(Galatians 4:30)

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]
the Bible doesn't make the distinction between priesthood, diet, moral, ceremonial "law" etc that people who want to stay under the slave woman make.
the Bible presents the law of the covenant made at Horeb as one law -- and in Christ, by being crucified with Him, "through the law i died to the law" in order to be made free

does "i died to the law" mean i died only to the priesthood?
or does "i died to the law" mean "i died to the law" ?

[HR][/HR][HR][/HR]

when you have to replace the words in scripture with your own words and change how it defines itself into how you want it to be defined, you've got a problem.

when you have God changing the terms of a contract after its been signed and ratified, you're making God evil.

Any change in an agreement makes the agreement a new agreement. You still refuse to accept what The Word which became Flesh tells us what changed. He said the Priesthood changed, He said what the new covenant is. He said He would write His Laws, not different laws. It is you who twist His Words to support your ancient religious traditions.

He said why the covenant changed from the old way sins were forgiven and His Laws are administered to the new way sins are forgiven and His Laws are administered.

He spells it out in Jer. Exactly what He was going to do. It is you that adds to His Word. Not me.

You unbelief does not make His Words void.

Studyman · Apr 18, 2018

posthuman said:

Who is trying to cram people under the old covenant? I am not advocating we find a Levite priest to administer God’s laws. I am not advocating the slaughter of animals for the atonement of sins.

I know you don’t read and study my posts, do you even read your own?

The Jews “bewitched” the Galatians by trying to push justification of sins by the Old Covenant, not yours or the Popes, but the covenant as described by the Word which became flesh.

You are preaching a different covenant than Jesus taught.

eternally-gratefull · Apr 18, 2018

Jackson123 said:

forgive me, I thought I did, my mistake and thank you for asking.

It is Galatians 3:
[h=1]Galatians 3 New King James Version (NKJV)[/h] [h=3]Justification by Faith[/h]3 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth,[SUP][a][/SUP] before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you[SUP][b][/SUP] as crucified? [SUP]2 [/SUP]This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? [SUP]3 [/SUP]Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh? [SUP]4 [/SUP]Have you suffered so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain?
[SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore He who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you, does He do it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?— [SUP]6 [/SUP]just as Abraham “believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[SUP][c][/SUP] [SUP]7 [/SUP]Therefore know that only those who are of faith are sons of Abraham. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel to Abraham beforehand, saying, “In you all the nations shall be blessed.”[SUP][d][/SUP] [SUP]9 [/SUP]So then those who are of faith are blessed with believing Abraham.
[h=3]The Law Brings a Curse[/h][SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.”[SUP][e][/SUP] [SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.”[SUP][f][/SUP] [SUP]12 [/SUP]Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”[SUP][g][/SUP]
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”[SUP][h][/SUP]), [SUP]14 [/SUP]that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
[h=3]The Changeless Promise[/h][SUP]15 [/SUP]Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. [SUP]16 [/SUP]Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”[SUP][i][/SUP] who is Christ. [SUP]17 [/SUP]And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ,[SUP][j][/SUP] that it should make the promise of no effect. [SUP]18 [/SUP]For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
[h=3]Purpose of the Law[/h][SUP]19 [/SUP]What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. [SUP]20 [/SUP]Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. [SUP]22 [/SUP]But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. [SUP]23 [/SUP]But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. [SUP]24 [/SUP]Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. [SUP]25 [/SUP]But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
[h=3]Sons and Heirs[/h][SUP]26 [/SUP]For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. [SUP]27 [/SUP]For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. [SUP]28 [/SUP]There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. [SUP]29 [/SUP]And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

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