Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances

[Ralph-]

My God Ralph the law is spread over a few books of the OT. and you want to sit there and say because someone mentioned 2 or 3 laws he TAUGHT LAW?

He did not just mention the law. He said they must keep it in regard to showing favoritism-James 2:1.

He used the law according to its purpose. TO SHOW THEM they NEEDED CHRIST.

I showed you that they are already saved.

the law came as one set. God did not break it up into pieces or sections

I agree. The ENTIRE law of Moses is upheld by faith in Christ, not just part of it.

Some laws are upheld by our faith in Christ and do not need any further action taken on our part, like the laws concerning animal sacrifices for sin, while some laws are upheld by our faith in Christ when we walk in that faith, like the law concerning not showing favoritism.

as paul said in Galatians, if your going to try to add one aspect of the law (in this case circumcision) your required to obey every jott and tittle (every word)

...only if you are trying to be justified by the law. When you exclude Christ's finished work on the cross that instantly makes it so you HAVE to do everything in the law yourself to be justified. but if you are relying on the justification found in Christ you only HAVE to do the laws concerning your personal conduct towards others, not the laws of Feasts and circumcision and Sabbaths, etc. Christ made it so there is no further debt of law concerning those. But the debt of law that does remain is your never ending debt of law to treat others nicely, without conditions. Christ did not keep those laws for you on the cross. You do that....through the power of the Spirit.

What did Jesus do for me? He saved me from the curse of the law number 1.

And now that you are saved from the curse of the law you then UPHOLD the law by your faith in Christ, not toss it a side like so many in the church think that's what Christ came to do.

and number 2, He loved me, so I in turn can take that love and love him and others, AND IN THAT MANNER, and seeking after things of the spirit, I will live a morally righteous life which is pleasing nto God.

Which means you must keep the law 'do not show favoritism'. That is exactly what James is teaching the church in his letter. But you did not know that because you are a victim of the Protestant church and you do not know the law. You were taught that to look at the law is you trying to earn your own salvation. It's hard to believe that the church is under such a ridiculous indoctrination.

Something the law NEVER could do. because it was NOT GIVEN for that purpose.

The WAY of the written word can not make you obey the law. Only through the WAY of the Spirit can you obey the law. But that hardly means we are now released from the requirements of the law. But that is how the church erroneously interprets Paul's teaching about the law.

I can read also. It is useful for "useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness"-2 Timothy
3:16

But it also must be taken in context.

It's as plain as day (for those who know the law, which you do not) that James is doing exactly what Paul said the law is good for. It's good for teaching and training in righteousness (right living). He taught them that to keep the law of love is to not show favoritism (among other things). Apparently, they were like the church today. They thought that as long as they are loving others they are doing right, oblivious to the fact that showing favoritism was not keeping the law to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. You keep the law of love when you keep the law to not show favoritism.

The law required PERFECTION. Are you PERFECT? If not the LAW CURSED YOU.

It requires perfection if you are trying to be justified by it. That is what the church can't comprehend.

And we are not cursed in our imperfect law keeping because Christ's sacrifice covers the guilt of our imperfect law keeping.

Like I say, the church does not understand this subject very well. You are the victim of this profound ignorance about the law. You have been taught just to look at it and then do it means you are trying to save yourself. If you say you don't believe that, then tell me why you are arguing with me about this.

 

[Studyman]

=posthuman;3544406]

no, in fact it does not say "a change in the covenant" -- it says "a new covenant"

not an amendment to the contract. a new contract.
not the green suit with a dye job. a totally different suit.

This is your religious belief, not what the Word says. The Parties to this agreement stayed the same, much of the agreement stayed the same like the first and greatest commandment. The Law not to eat Blood, the law against fornication, the Law against eating animals which are strangled, the law regarding idolatry. Surely even you must believe this.

Your preaching that Jesus promised to re-write the entire agreement is false. It is a New Agreement as to the things Jesus said. How God's Laws are administered, and how sins are forgiven.

You and "MANY" who come in Christ's Name preach that Jesus "changed" more than He told us in order to justify your religion. I think we should reject the religion of it opposes the Word of God.

just like Jeremiah 31 doesn't say "

same covenant, new priesthood" -- it says "new covenant"

But Jesus didn't change his coat and burn the old one like you are trying to preach. He made a "NEW Compact, and New Agreement with His People that is different than the agreement He already had. That is why He called it "New Covenant".

Now did Jesus create this "New Agreement" without telling us what was "New" about it?

No Post. Amos 3:7 Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.

Jeremiah is one of His Servants, and this Prophet told us not only that there would be a "New Covenant" or New Agreement with Israel and Judah, but he spelled out exactly what would be "New". He did this so people interested in letting God's Word guiding their footsteps would know what to expect when He came back.

It is a promise from the Word which became Flesh that He gave us through the Law and Prophets. If He promised it, is it not Law?

So what was "New" according to His Word? Was it the change or the elimination of the first and greatest Commandment given by the Word through Moses?? No. Was it the Law and Prophets which hang on the First and Greatest Commandment? NO!

He tells us exactly what the New Covenant, the New Agreement is.

#1. He would write HIS LAWS on our hearts. Not New Laws, not different Laws, not your laws or the laws of the false priests that Jeremiah warned against over and over or the Pope, or Billy Graham, but the one and true God's Laws. No more Levite Priests to filter God's Words and the Old Covenant, that the old agreement required.


#2. "I will forgive your sins". No more taking a turtle dove or goat to the Levite Priest for the atonement of sins. It is a NEW AGREEMENT which no longer requires animal sacrifice, but the Blood of Jesus once and for all.

notice here that the priests operate according to the Law
-- change in priesthood necessarily means a change in law. therefore priesthood is certainly part of the Law, and if priesthood is "changed" i.e. the same Sinai contract remains but has only been altered by the deletion of all mention of the name Levi, that's removing jots and tittles.

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

-- direct contradiction between "

nothing has been removed" and "priesthood has been changed"
priesthood is included in "the Law"

Again, it is not me who tells you what the "Change" is. It is the Word. He promised us of the Change in the Law and Prophets.

And He did exactly what He promised. How is that removing or taking away from the Law and Prophets? He is fulfilling the Promises that He made in the Law and Prophets through Jeremiah just like He said He would.

Now here you are claiming He is contradicting Himself.

This is my frustration on this forum. You look right at the Word and deny what it says? WHY? Because your religious tradition is more important to you that God's Words.


The Priesthood is being performed exactly as the Spiritual intent it was designed for by our High Priest.

again, clearly not a "change to" the covenant. an entirely new covenant. a "change of"
a new suit; a different one, not the same one re-colored. by saying "second" the first is no more, if ye would enter into the new.

What is new about the Covenant? If I listen to the Word which became flesh, He said 2 things changed to make the Covenant "NEW". Read it yourself.

He will administer God's Laws. He will forgive sins. Why does this need to change? Why was the Covenant not working to begin with?

Heb. 7:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.8 For finding fault with them,(Corrupt Levite Priests) he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,
8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Matt. 23:4 For they (Levite Priests)bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

I could go on and on Post, I haven't even started to mention all the scriptures on the OT which told us of a corrupt Priesthood.

I hope you will consider what the Word says regarding what the New Covenant is, and accept what He says even if it goes against your ancient religious tradition.

 

[Studyman]

If you insist that only priesthood changed you need to figure out how God speaking through Paul can say physical circumcision is making the cross of none effect.

I am insisting that God's Word is right, and all other religions and religious traditions are lies.

Being physically circumcised and living in disobedience to God is no different than calling Him "Lord, Lord and practicing iniquity. (disobedience to God)

As Paul said. 1 Cor. 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.

I understand both what the New Covenant is and the truth about circumcision because I believe God's Words over man's religious traditions and doctrines.

 

[Gabriel2020]

He is stating here that just because you have been saved from the law of sin by grace does not mean you can continue sinning the way you used to which is willfully sinning . Just because Jesus got your back does not mean that he will not be ashamed of what you are doing, and scriptue says that God will not be made a mockery. That means that he is going to getcha.

 

[Studyman]

He is stating here that just because you have been saved from the law of sin by grace does not mean you can continue sinning the way you used to which is willfully sinning . Just because Jesus got your back does not mean that he will not be ashamed of what you are doing, and scriptue says that God will not be made a mockery. That means that he is going to getcha.

I think we should let Him with His Word's define His Covenant He made with His People.

He is the Way, He is the Light. His Words are forever. He spells out exactly what His covenant is. I think it is a mistake to filter His Word through our existing religious traditions.

 

[Jackson123]

Your question was answered quite clarly, directly to you when you immediately began to question my response and several times earlier in this thread.

I know your post now is only to impress other readers, so why not address them directly in lieu of attempting to make soemone who loves Jesus Christ look bad, in error......

I don't think you give me straightfoward answer.

the question is are you agree with Paarl that say after faith we no longer under law.

your answer is obidiend is not under the law.

it is not definite answer to the question.

I am not asking is obidience under the law.

example question : is summer hot

than you answer : Phoenix is hot,

it it is not straightforward answer. I am not ask, is Phoenix hot, I ask is summer hot.

I know straightforward answer will uncover your false teaching.

 

[Gabriel2020]

that's scripture, and that is what it means. Are you confessing your sins and faults to me?

 

[Studyman]

that's scripture, and that is what it means. Are you confessing your sins and faults to me?

Like I said. His Words, not yours or religious man, should define what His Promised Covenant is. The Bible says the New Covenant is the "Change" in the Priesthood. Not the change in the definition of sin as "many" who come in Christ's name preach.

Post was saying there was a contradiction between "not one jot or tittle shall pass" and the phrase "Priesthood has changed". I was showing Him that the "Changing Priesthood, the New Covenant, was promised in the Law and Prophets, (Jer. 31) therefore it's fulfillment was part of the Law, not "apart" from the law.

 

[JaumeJ]

One question, how can it be that someone who is saved can still sin? Give me your response.

Yes, we have One Mediator and the guilt of our transgressions are not held against us, yet they are transgressions.. When believers understand this, they will know.

There cannot be sin or transgression without the law. You and I are being perfected by our Maker, and it is you you and I perfecting ourselves. We believe Jesus, Yeshua, and we do our utmost to be like He. Do not ever say you already are because that will not be until the Kingdom.

Yes, it is a mystery, and yes all will be revealed. Until then we must obey Jesus Christ's Gospel. amen

 

[Gabriel2020]

It is the flesh that wars against the spirit in all believers. It's a funny thing that God did not alter our flesh to keep it from sinning. there were no changes made in the flesh. why? because it is powerless when the spirit of light in in us,and God has put it to death,meaning it has been voided out, but yet present. The spirit man is the key to salvation., you worship him in spirit and truth, not in flesh and sin.

 

[OneFaith]

I came across this explanation about the “blotting out of the handwriting of ordinances” and thought people might be interested. It is quite long and this is a summery. There is a link to the full article below.

Colosse situated as it is in Asia Minor was dominated by paganism and was the great cultural centre of the region. It was dominated by Greek civilization and philosophy and along with the cities of Laodicea and Hieropolis was considered to be the seat of Greek and Oriental philosophy along with asceticism that permeated the culture of this and other outlying areas. Heathenism, paganism, the mystery religions and Pantheism were everywhere.

The people had lapsed into gross immorality. The teachings of Plato centred on the demiurge which is the Gnostic term for the Creator of the material world, who was considered much lower than and far removed from the Supreme Being. This was one of the main purposes of Paul’s letter — to prove that Yahshua was the Creator and the head of the Assembly, and not at the bottom of the creation ladder (Col.1).

The problem Paul addressed in his letter to the Colossians was the fusion of pagan and oriental asceticism into the truth of the Scriptures. It was the mixing of the Bible with worldly philosophy and esoteric wisdom plus spiritualism and mystery religions.

In chapter 2 of Colossians Paul warns the believers not to be taken in by those who would beguile them, nor to be destroyed through philosophy and vain deceit by the traditions of men and the elementary teachings of the world. In verse 10 Paul points out that the believer who has been baptized is complete in the Messiah, who “Blotted out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing them to the tree” of His Son, Yahshua.

The “handwriting of ordinances” is not the Ten Commandments which were written on two tables of stone by Yahweh’s own finger. These are the ordinances that were handwritten by pagan man. They were not engraved on two tablets of stone as were the Ten Commandments.

In addition, this handwriting of ordinances Paul says is “against us and contrary to us Christians” The problem was always with man and man’s dogma which is not Yahweh-ordained law and is used in the Bible to mean the doctrine, decree, or teaching of man. “Ordinances” here is a man-made teaching. The blotting out of ordinances (erroneous, man-made notions of conduct) referred to in Colossians 2:14 has a parallel in 1:21-22, where Paul explains that our previous life of a worldly, hostile attitude has been set aside and taken away. Yahweh has now forgiven our former way of life. He has reconciled us to Himself, even though we were enemies by our wicked works. We are now brought into His very presence through Yahshua’s shed blood.

The “blotting out the handwriting of ordinances” simply means (as in Acts 3: 19) that the sins committed by the human works of the mind and flesh resulting in disobedience to Yahweh’s law have been blotted out. Yahweh has fully forgiven our sins because of the death of His Son on the cross. Now we are to follow in the footsteps of His Son who is our example. “We need to rid ourselves of sinful, earthly things; dampen down the evil desires lurking within us and have nothing to do with sexual sins, impurity, lust, and shameful desire, neither should we love the good things of carnal life, for that is idolatry,”


Posted on October 3, 2016 by YRM

https://yrm.org/handwriting-ordinances-not-biblical-law/

,It means we no longer obey God's law physically, we now obey it spiritually. For example, they physically rested on a physical day, now we spiritually rest in 'the peace that surpasses understanding'. They took a sinner outside the city and stoned him to death, we die to our sins spiritually by taking up our cross and following Christ's examples. They sacrificed a physically perfect lamb, now the spiritually perfect Lamb of God is our sacrifice. Jesus says if you hate your brother you are guilty of murder, why? Because it now counts spiritually, whether we do it physically or not. We spiritually obey God's law not to murder by loving our brother.

 

[Studyman]

It is the flesh that wars against the spirit in all believers. It's a funny thing that God did not alter our flesh to keep it from sinning. there were no changes made in the flesh. why? because it is powerless when the spirit of light in in us,and God has put it to death,meaning it has been voided out, but yet present. The spirit man is the key to salvation., you worship him in spirit and truth, not in flesh and sin.

But we are carnal, not Spiritual. Jesus didn't take that away as you said. We don't have it within us to know how to be spiritual. We have to "learn" just like Jesus the man did.

Do we learn by "believing in the words of man" or "in believing ancient religious traditions of man". No, we must learn from the one and only true God, the Word which became Flesh. There is no other way according to Him.

That is why Jesus said "Man LIVES by "Every" Word of God", not just those words which can be used to promote mans traditions.

That is why it is important to understand, not what some religious franchise preaches about the New Covenant, but the God, the Word which became Flesh, says about the New Covenant.

As it is written: "A little leaven leavens the whole lump" and again "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" (The Mainstream Preachers of that day)

 

[PS]

One question, how can it be that someone who is saved can still sin? Give me your response.

Yes, we have One Mediator and the guilt of our transgressions are not held against us, yet they are transgressions.. When believers understand this, they will know.

There cannot be sin or transgression without the law. You and I are being perfected by our Maker, and it is you you and I perfecting ourselves. We believe Jesus, Yeshua, and we do our utmost to be like He. Do not ever say you already are because that will not be until the Kingdom.

Yes, it is a mystery, and yes all will be revealed. Until then we must obey Jesus Christ's Gospel. amen

The book of 1 John was written to Christians and in it we read:-

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1Jn 1:8-10)

 

[JaumeJ]

It is good to hear you are aware of this.

The book of 1 John was written to Christians and in it we read:-

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us. (1Jn 1:8-10)

 

[Jackson123]

He did not just mention the law. He said they must keep it in regard to showing favoritism-James 2:1.




I showed you that they are already saved.




I agree. The ENTIRE law of Moses is upheld by faith in Christ, not just part of it.

Some laws are upheld by our faith in Christ and do not need any further action taken on our part, like the laws concerning animal sacrifices for sin, while some laws are upheld by our faith in Christ when we walk in that faith, like the law concerning not showing favoritism.





...only if you are trying to be justified by the law. When you exclude Christ's finished work on the cross that instantly makes it so you HAVE to do everything in the law yourself to be justified. but if you are relying on the justification found in Christ you only HAVE to do the laws concerning your personal conduct towards others, not the laws of Feasts and circumcision and Sabbaths, etc. Christ made it so there is no further debt of law concerning those. But the debt of law that does remain is your never ending debt of law to treat others nicely, without conditions. Christ did not keep those laws for you on the cross. You do that....through the power of the Spirit.





And now that you are saved from the curse of the law you then UPHOLD the law by your faith in Christ, not toss it a side like so many in the church think that's what Christ came to do.




Which means you must keep the law 'do not show favoritism'. That is exactly what James is teaching the church in his letter. But you did not know that because you are a victim of the Protestant church and you do not know the law. You were taught that to look at the law is you trying to earn your own salvation. It's hard to believe that the church is under such a ridiculous indoctrination.





The WAY of the written word can not make you obey the law. Only through the WAY of the Spirit can you obey the law. But that hardly means we are now released from the requirements of the law. But that is how the church erroneously interprets Paul's teaching about the law.





It's as plain as day (for those who know the law, which you do not) that James is doing exactly what Paul said the law is good for. It's good for teaching and training in righteousness (right living). He taught them that to keep the law of love is to not show favoritism (among other things). Apparently, they were like the church today. They thought that as long as they are loving others they are doing right, oblivious to the fact that showing favoritism was not keeping the law to 'love your neighbor as yourself'. You keep the law of love when you keep the law to not show favoritism.




It requires perfection if you are trying to be justified by it. That is what the church can't comprehend.

And we are not cursed in our imperfect law keeping because Christ's sacrifice covers the guilt of our imperfect law keeping.

Like I say, the church does not understand this subject very well. You are the victim of this profound ignorance about the law. You have been taught just to look at it and then do it means you are trying to save yourself. If you say you don't believe that, then tell me why you are arguing with me about this.

So, do you believe salvation by doing the law or by faith?

 

[Jackson123]

But we are carnal, not Spiritual. Jesus didn't take that away as you said. We don't have it within us to know how to be spiritual. We have to "learn" just like Jesus the man did.

Do we learn by "believing in the words of man" or "in believing ancient religious traditions of man". No, we must learn from the one and only true God, the Word which became Flesh. There is no other way according to Him.

That is why Jesus said "Man LIVES by "Every" Word of God", not just those words which can be used to promote mans traditions.

That is why it is important to understand, not what some religious franchise preaches about the New Covenant, but the God, the Word which became Flesh, says about the New Covenant.

As it is written: "A little leaven leavens the whole lump" and again "Beware of the leaven of the Pharisees" (The Mainstream Preachers of that day)

you not agree with religious franchise preacher about New Covenant, what is they preach, and why you not agree?

 

[JaumeJ]

I cannot get over how people are trying so hard to get others who believe in obedience to Jesus Christ according to the law as He clarifies it do not believe they are saved by mercy and grace and never by works......I suppose that is what is true desperation.

 

[PS]

I cannot get over how people are trying so hard to get others who believe in obedience to Jesus Christ according to the law as He clarifies it do not believe they are saved by mercy and grace and never by works......I suppose that is what is true desperation.

Christians who come to God in faith believing, are saved by the grace of God and never by works.

But, if I understand you correctly, you seem to think you can live and do as you like, even to the extent of sinning against God, blaspheming and apostatising, and you will always be saved.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[JaumeJ]

If this is the manner in which you understand my posting, it is no small wonder you get the Word wrong also.

How many times in this thread have I posted we cannot earn salvation? How many times in this thread have I mentioned
we need the Mediator betgween us and the Father? You see that Mediator is Jesus Christ Who mediates our transgressions.

It seems you either do not understand simple language or your are deliberately attempting to deflect any who read what you claim to misunderstand. Either is pathetic.

Christians who come to God in faith believing, are saved by the grace of God and never by works.

But, if I understand you correctly, you seem to think you can live and do as you like, even to the extent of sinning against God, blaspheming and apostatising, and you will always be saved.

Correct me if I am wrong.

 

[PS]

If this is the manner in which you understand my posting, it is no small wonder you get the Word wrong also.

How many times in this thread have I posted we cannot earn salvation? How many times in this thread have I mentioned
we need the Mediator betgween us and the Father? You see that Mediator is Jesus Christ Who mediates our transgressions.

It seems you either do not understand simple language or your are deliberately attempting to deflect any who read what you claim to misunderstand. Either is pathetic.

RED: You are sidestepping. That is not what I said.

What you need to understand is that God's wrath is well known.