Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Ralph-]

You can TRY to emulate what you THINK a saved person does but that doesn't make you saved.

No, it SHOWS that you are saved.

Ahhh... According to your faulty philosophy the Lord Jesus Christ fulfilled SOME of the law but some of it remains for us to literally fulfill.

Christ did not keep 'love your neighbor as yourself' for you on the cross. YOU are to do that.

He fulfilled it insofar as your guilt for not keeping it, but he did not keep it for you so that you do not have to now.

The flesh (the ones that need to be literally kept) lusts against the Spirit (the fruit that we produce by faith in Christ) and they are contrary one to the other.

Galatians 5:16-18

[SUP]16 [/SUP]This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
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If you are led of the Spirit YOU AREN'T GUILTY OF NOT KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDS.

"against such things (the fruit of the Spirit) there is no law"-Galatians 5:23

See, when you're walking in the Spirit you aren't in any violation of law. But the church thinks walking in the Spirit means you don't have to keep any laws and you just trust God for salvation. And if it just so happens that you fall into some obedience along the way, good, that's the Spirit working in you. If you had purposely tried to do that, that would be you trying to earn your own salvation. The church is seriously deceived at this time prophetic history. The end is nearing.

 

[Shamah]

mans heart is clearly against His Commands.

thankfully He can change our hearts:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]

 

[UnderGrace]

People could not recognize Jesus as Messiah, God incarnate, the very essence of God's grace and love and yet you believe

we can show we are saved by our works?

No, it SHOWS that you are saved.


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Christ did not keep 'love your neighbor as yourself' for you on the cross. YOU are to do that.

He fulfilled it insofar as your guilt for not keeping it, but he did not keep it for you so that you do not have to now.



[/SIZE]If you are led of the Spirit YOU AREN'T GUILTY OF NOT KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDS.

"against such things (the fruit of the Spirit) there is no law"-Galatians 5:23

See, when you're walking in the Spirit you aren't in any violation of law. But the church thinks walking in the Spirit means you don't have to keep any laws and you just trust God for salvation. And if it just so happens that you fall into some obedience along the way, good, that's the Spirit working in you. If you had purposely tried to do that, that would be you trying to earn your own salvation. The church is seriously deceived at this time prophetic history. The end is nearing.

 

[Grandpa]

No, it SHOWS that you are saved.


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Christ did not keep 'love your neighbor as yourself' for you on the cross. YOU are to do that.

He fulfilled it insofar as your guilt for not keeping it, but he did not keep it for you so that you do not have to now.



[/SIZE]If you are led of the Spirit YOU AREN'T GUILTY OF NOT KEEPING GOD'S COMMANDS.

"against such things (the fruit of the Spirit) there is no law"-Galatians 5:23

See, when you're walking in the Spirit you aren't in any violation of law. But the church thinks walking in the Spirit means you don't have to keep any laws and you just trust God for salvation. And if it just so happens that you fall into some obedience along the way, good, that's the Spirit working in you. If you had purposely tried to do that, that would be you trying to earn your own salvation. The church is seriously deceived at this time prophetic history. The end is nearing.

Which of the fruit of the Spirit does Christ produce and which do YOU produce????????

The only deception is legalists and judaizers who try to convince Christians that they are under the law to fulfill it in their own strength and understanding.

The fruit of the spirit doesn't make a person work at the law. The fruit of the Spirit is the FULFILLMENT of the law. That's why there are no laws that are against them.

That's why we can be dead to the law and alive to Christ. Because working at the law in our own strength and understanding DOESN'T produce the fruit of the Spirit. Only by resting in Christ by faith can this fruit be produced.

 

[Grandpa]

mans heart is clearly against His Commands.

thankfully He can change our hearts:

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

Yes, exactly.

And what is that Law that is put into our hearts and minds?

Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness and Temperance.

The fulfillment of the 10 commandments that previously were a curse and death to us.

Which is why HIS LAW is a delight. Which is why HIS LAW is no burden. It is fulfilled by faith in Christ and not our carnal understanding and strength at working at the 10 commandments.

There is no way for a judaizer to understand this. They've been led away by the error of the wicked and refuse to grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

 

[ljs]

AMEN Grandpa

 

[Shamah]

Yes, exactly.

And what is that Law that is put into our hearts and minds?

Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, Goodness, Faith, Meekness and Temperance.

The fulfillment of the 10 commandments that previously were a curse and death to us.

Which is why HIS LAW is a delight. Which is why HIS LAW is no burden. It is fulfilled by faith in Christ and not our carnal understanding and strength at working at the 10 commandments.

There is no way for a judaizer to understand this. They've been led away by the error of the wicked and refuse to grow in Grace and in the Knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour.

SO what is a "judaizer?"

Is this someone who beleives YHWH Law?

or

Is this someone who beleive Talmudic law?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 5:43, “I have come in My Father's Name, but you do not follow Me. Let another come in his own name; him you will follow.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 7:16-17, “Yahshua answered, them, and said: My doctrine is not Mine, but His Who sent Me. If any man will do His will, he will know about this teaching, whether it comes from YHWH, or whether I am speaking of My own authority.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away." [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 22:37-40, "Yahshua said to him: You must love YHWH your Father with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your might. (Deut 6:5) This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. (Lev 19:18) On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Luke 16:16-17, "The Law and the Prophets were until John, since that time the Kingdom of YHWH is preached, and every man is pressed to enter it. But it is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one yodh of the Law to fail." [/FONT]

Am i one of the "wicked ones" because I believe what the Messiah says it true?

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[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"iniquity" is: #0458 anomia {an-om-ee'-ah} from G0459[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Greek Word Study (Transliteration-Pronunciation Etymology & Grammar)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1) the condition of without law 1a) because ignorant of it1b) because of violating it, 2) contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:12, "And because iniquity will abound, the love of the many will grow cold."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]1 John 5:2-3, "By this we know that we love the children of Yah, when we love Yah and guard His commands. For this is the love for Yah, that we guard His commands, and His commands are not heavy."[/FONT]

 

[Ralph-]

The only deception is legalists and judaizers who try to convince Christians that they are under the law to fulfill it in their own strength and understanding.

Who says this?????

Why do you instantly hear "in your own strength" when you hear the word law? Paul did not mean 'in your own strength' when he said faith upholds the 'law' (Romans 3:31).

The fruit of the spirit doesn't make a person work at the law. The fruit of the Spirit is the FULFILLMENT of the law. That's why there are no laws that are against them.

That's what I said.
Why are you contending with me?
Christians keep the law........through the power of the Holy Spirit.

...working at the law in our own strength and understanding DOESN'T produce the fruit of the Spirit. Only by resting in Christ by faith can this fruit be produced.

No one is disagreement with this. What you have to tell us is how this makes it so we don't have to keep the law of Moses (the part which remains for the people of God to keep).

 

[Ralph-]

People could not recognize Jesus as Messiah, God incarnate, the very essence of God's grace and love and yet you believe

we can show we are saved by our works?

That's what the Bible says.

Dead faith is the sign of the unbeliever. Right, mailmandan? Tell her.

 

[Ralph-]

Am i one of the "wicked ones" because I believe what the Messiah says it true?

Or worse........because you DO what Messiah says is true.

To the church that can only mean one thing; you are trying to earn your own salvation. Meanwhile, their disobedience and failure and unchanged life is them not trying to earn their own salvation. The church is messed up, bad.

 

[Shamah]

It just nonsense accusation, anytime someone says obedience is right many yell "lawyer!!!"

say walk in His ways they yell "self justified"

say His Law shows us His righteous character they yell "pharisee"

it is a way to make one speaking Scriptual truth appaer bad to those who do not know the word in a way that they do not have to actually use any Scripture or facts, or very little Scripture. For if they could prove their claims they would use the Word and not use it in a manner where a verses is quoted to essentially "erase" other verses...

 

[Shamah]

Or worse........because you DO what Messiah says is true. To the church that can only mean one thing; you are trying to earn your own salvation. Meanwhile, their disobedience and failure is them not trying to earn their own salvation. The church is messed up, bad.

I know, the truth has been turned up side down, very sad indeed.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isayah 59:13-15, "In transgressing and lying against YHWH, and turning away from following our Father, speaking oppression and rebellion, conceiving and uttering from the mind words of falsehood: So judgment is driven backwards, and justice stands afar off, for truth is fallen in the street, and equity cannot enter. Yes, truth is suppressed; and he who departs from evil is accounted as mad. YHWH saw this, and it displeased Him that there was no justice."



Isaiah 59:16-21,16 And He saw that there was no man, and was astonished that there was no intercessor. So His own arm saved for Him, and His righteousness upheld him."17 And He put on righteousness as a breastplate, and a helmet of deliverance on His head. And He put on garments of vengeance for clothing, and wrapped Himself with ardour as a mantle."18 According to their deeds, so He repays, wrath to His adversaries, recompense to His enemies. He repays recompense to the coastlands."19 And they shall fear the Name of יהוה from the west, and His esteem from the rising of the sun, when distress comes like a flood, the Spirit of יהוה drives atb it. Footnote: bLit. “in” it."20 “And the Redeemer shall come to Tsiyon,c and to those turning from transgression in Ya‛aqoḇ,” declares יהוה. ( Isa 24:23)."21 “As for Me, this is My covenant with them,” said יהוה: “My Spirit that is upon you, and My Words that I have put in your mouth, shall not be withdrawn from your mouth, nor from the mouth of your descendants, nor from the mouth of your descendants’ descendants,” said יהוה, “from this time and forever.”"
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[UnderGrace]

No, dead faith it is not the sign of the unbeliever within context of James.

That's what the Bible says.

Dead faith is the sign of the unbeliever. Right, mailmandan? Tell her.

 

[Cee]

Or worse........because you DO what Messiah says is true.

To the church that can only mean one thing; you are trying to earn your own salvation. Meanwhile, their disobedience and failure and unchanged life is them not trying to earn their own salvation. The church is messed up, bad.

I know a lot of people in the church and I don’t know a single person who believes what you just said. People who are disobedient in my experience are the ones who believe they need to be obedient to be changed. People who are generally the most loving and willing to live their life for Christ generally know how free and loved they are regardless of their obedience. And this allows them to freely love people and follow God. In my experience, it is more freedom and love that produces Christlike behavior not less. The true unadulterated gospel transforms lives.

*This doesn’t mean we ignore poor behavior, we call them up to who God says they are because of the work He has done and is doing in them.

 

[UnderGrace]

Amen Cee.

So true.

I know a lot of people in the church and I don’t know a single person who believes what you just said. People who are disobedient in my experience are the ones who believe they need to be obedient to be changed. People who are generally the most loving and willing to live their life for Christ generally know how free and loved they are regardless of their obedience. And this allows them to freely love people and follow God. In my experience, it is more freedom and love that produces Christlike behavior not less. The true unadulterated gospel transforms lives.

 

[Shamah]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”[/FONT]

 

[Shamah]

Or worse........because you DO what Messiah says is true.

To the church that can only mean one thing; you are trying to earn your own salvation. Meanwhile, their disobedience and failure and unchanged life is them not trying to earn their own salvation. The church is messed up, bad.

I know a lot of people in the church and I don’t know a single person who believes what you just said. People who are disobedient in my experience are the ones who believe they need to be obedient to be changed. People who are generally the most loving and willing to live their life for Christ generally know how free and loved they are regardless of their obedience. And this allows them to freely love people and follow God. In my experience, it is more freedom and love that produces Christlike behavior not less. The true unadulterated gospel transforms lives.

*This doesn’t mean we ignore poor behavior, we call them up to who God says they are because of the work He has done and is doing in them.

I have never heard this preached at a church:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

in fact anyone who agrees with this usually has bad things said about them by those who say they follow Jesus.
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[Cee]

I have never heard this preached at a church:

John/Yahanan 5:28-30, “Do not be astonished at this-for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice, and will come forth. Those who have practiced righteousness will be resurrected in order to live; and those who have practiced wickedness will be resurrected in order to be damned."

in fact anyone who agrees with this usually has bad things said about them by those who say they follow Jesus.

Yes this is true, those who are righteous will live and those who are wicked will be condemned. The Pharisees thought they were righteous by keeping the Law. But the Law was given to reveal their need for a Savior. And He, only He is fully righteous before God. And when we die to self-righteousness we are reborn in Him and His righteousness.

 

[Studyman]

Yes this is true, those who are righteous will live and those who are wicked will be condemned. The Pharisees thought they were righteous by keeping the Law. But the Law was given to reveal their need for a Savior. And He, only He is fully righteous before God. And when we die to self-righteousness we are reborn in Him and His righteousness.

This is another example of what I see as a huge problem with mainstream preaching. The Pharisees were NOT trying to be righteous by following God's Commandments. they had created their own Law, which included animal sacrifice in order to have sins removed (Make one righteous). God's Law spoke of a time when sins would be forgiven "apart" the Levitical Priesthood "?works of the Law" given by God through Moses, "till the Seed should come". If they had listened to God, they would have known Jesus.

This is what Jesus said of them;

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9
But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Not from God.

Matt. 23:4
For they (Pharisees, not God) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

Rom. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

John 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me.
47
But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

I could go on and on.

Why would you make a claim about the Pharisees that is so false according to the scriptures?

Let me show you a written example of folks who were righteous by keeping God's Commandments.

Luke 1:5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

This is how God's Word talks about those who love God enough to honor Him with all their might and soul.

Why don't you answer this question please.

Why did Zechariahs know Jesus when He came, and the Pharisees didn't?

I don't want to sound rude, and I'm trying to be patient. But it is hard for me to hear this same lie told over and over and over on this forum.

Can you at least understand my thoughts on this?