Do We Have To Keep The Law?

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yet you ignore what Scripture says rest in Messiah is:

Revelation 14:12-13,12 Here is the endurance of the set-apart ones, here are those guarding the commands of Elohim and the belief of יהושע.And I heard a voice out of the heaven saying to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Master from now on.’ ” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “in order that they rest from their labours, and their works follow with them.”"

No. I've shown you with scripture what rest is.

You've twisted the scripture, AGAIN.

When the Lord Jesus Christ says come to me and I will give you Rest does He mean DEATH???

No. He doesn't. He means Rest. Which is ceasing from works as God did from His.


Those that rest on Saturdays, do they practice being dead? No, they practice rest.


C'mon, man.
 
Anyone with the truth written on his or her heart would never teach against Christ's words........

If you believe someone in authority is teaching that Christ destroyed the law, do not hear that person for
Christ declares He has not come to destroy the law and th prophets rather He came to fulfill

Also Paul teaches in Romans that faith esstablishes the law. It is established on the tablets of our
hearts.

It is up to any who have come to Christ to learn from Christ how the law is under grace.

Until a person knows this, he should never pronounce on the law in aany manner.
 
=graceNpeace;3559052]
No, you are very confused!

You are trying to justify your errors by pointing to things that were still in the future.

Those Pharisees were following the Law - to THE LETTER!
They did not invent that Law - they got it from Exodus dia Deuteronomy...

I know this is what you and EG and Decon and MMD and the Pope and "many" others who come in Christ's name preach. My point is Jesus, as the Word and as the Word which became Flesh taught the exact opposite. I believe I should listen to Him over what the mainstream preachers of Christ's time, or the mainstream preachers of my time when it is in direct conflict to the Words of my Savior.

Here is what the Bible says about the Levite Priests, the Pharisees.

4 For they (Pharisees, not God ) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Matt. 15:7 Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. ( Not God as you preach)

Acts 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers:
53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Jer. 5:30 A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;
31 The prophets prophesy falsely, and the priests bear rule by their means; (Not God's as you preach) and my people love to have it so: and what will ye do in the end thereof?

Jer. 14:14 Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.

Ezek. 3:1 And the word of the LORD (Word which became Flesh) came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel that prophesy, and say thou unto them that prophesy out of their own hearts, Hear ye the word of the LORD;
3 Thus saith the Lord GOD; Woe unto the foolish prophets, that follow their own spirit, and have seen nothing!
4 O Israel, thy prophets are like the foxes in the deserts.
5 Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in the day of the LORD.
6 They have seen vanity and lying divination, saying, The LORD saith: and the LORD hath not sent them: and they have made others to hope that they would confirm the word.
7 Have ye not seen a vain vision, and have ye not spoken a lying divination, whereas ye say, The LORD saith it; albeit I have not spoken?

Rom. 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

John 7:19
Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law?

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

Rom. 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.


You preach;
Those Pharisees were following the Law - to THE LETTER!

Obviously this is false if one believes in the Word which became Flesh.

You preach; "
And so, they piled the burden of the Law upon themselves and others in a fruitless quest for righteousness through the Law

But Jesus taught: For they (Pharisees, not God ) bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Not only do you lie about who lay's the burden, and where the burden is layed (upon themselves) but you falsely imply that God's Laws are the burden in a chapter where Jesus tells us over and over that they did not follow God or His Laws. They were hypocrites, you might look that up.

And you ridicule me and Shamah. Do you even read His Word anymore?

Jesus warned us to "take heed" of people who would convince me of a lie about God's Word. (To deceive means to convince someone of a lie.)

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

My only reason for even having this conversation is to expose this about your post. Whether you know it or not, you are working to convince people of the the lie that the Pharisees followed God's Laws to the Letter, that the Pharisees laid God's Laws on themselves, and on the people, and that God's Laws are a burden.

But the Word which became Flesh teaches just the opposite.

1 John 5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.


My hope is that you will do the study and realize that the Pharisees had created their own religion which had some of God's instructions like all religions do. They were still seeking to be justified (Made Righteous) by their version of the Levitical Priesthood. They "bewitched" the Galatians with this "law".

Or you could defend this lie by trying to find a word or sentence, presumably from Paul, which you can use as a weapon to destroy all the Word's of Jesus, Paul and the Prophets describing the Pharisees, the Levite Priests, and continue to further your religious deception.

Time will tell.
 
Anyone with the truth written on his or her heart would never teach against Christ's words........

If you believe someone in authority is teaching that Christ destroyed the law, do not hear that person for
Christ declares He has not come to destroy the law and th prophets rather He came to fulfill

Also Paul teaches in Romans that faith esstablishes the law. It is established on the tablets of our
hearts.


It is up to any who have come to Christ to learn from Christ how the law is under grace.

Until a person knows this, he should never pronounce on the law in any manner.
The reference is NOT to the Torah - how can it be given what Paul says in context:
"21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,
22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all[h] who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.
28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.
29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also,
30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith.
31 Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
" Romans 3:21-31

A simple read of this text shows completely unambiguously that the Law has NO role in justification.
Furthermore, Paul introduces a concept called "the law of faith" and it is very clear, by context that when Paul says this "Do we then make void the law through faith? Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law" he is not referring to the Torah, but to "the law of faith"
What is "the law of faith"?
It is this: "24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."

This is simply nothing to do with the Torah....
 
What is wrong with obeying any law that contains mercy? Justice? Faith? All other laws have been fulfilled, the wormer with those three qualifications and those especially that do not.

The remaining laws are all contained in love.

If you love just as God loves then you are obeying all of the laws. If you are obeying all of the laws, then what is your argument agains obeying the law as Christ has taught all? You canot have an argument, just resistence to truth.

The laaws of love are laws.......
 
Anyone with the truth written on his or her heart would never teach against Christ's words........

If you believe someone in authority is teaching that Christ destroyed the law, do not hear that person for
Christ declares He has not come to destroy the law and th prophets rather He came to fulfill

Also Paul teaches in Romans that faith esstablishes the law. It is established on the tablets of our
hearts.

It is up to any who have come to Christ to learn from Christ how the law is under grace.

Until a person knows this, he should never pronounce on the law in aany manner.
Yes.

Judaizers should either practice Judaism or Christianity but not try to do both at the same time.

Maybe go back and totally re-organize their thoughts.

Be cold or hot. But not luke-warm.
 
If I were so, I would be advising all to be circumcised. Do not be silly. You believe that love fuflills the laws, then you believe you ae to love, and love is a law, two laws for that matter containing all the law the Christ has left to be fulfilled,.

So even those who claim they "love" are obeying the law under grace as do i AN ALL WHO BELIEVE WE SHOULD OBEY cHRIST.

If you cannot understand this, it is because your understanding has been darkened. You are closer to being a judaizer than any who believe they should obey God because you want people to obey your rules, and rules are laws not of God.


Yes.

Judaizers should either practice Judaism or Christianity but not try to do both at the same time.

Maybe go back and totally re-organize their thoughts.

Be cold or hot. But not luke-warm.
 
If I were so, I would be advising all to be circumcised. Do not be silly. You believe that love fuflills the laws, then you believe you ae to love, and love is a law, two laws for that matter containing all the law the Christ has left to be fulfilled,.

So even those who claim they "love" are obeying the law under grace as do i AN ALL WHO BELIEVE WE SHOULD OBEY cHRIST.

If you cannot understand this, it is because your understanding has been darkened. You are closer to being a judaizer than any who believe they should obey God because you want people to obey your rules, and rules are laws not of God.
I understand you perfectly well.

You want to mix Judaism with Christianity and be "extra" blessed.

In the pride of the judaizers heart they always think they can do what God has commanded. We will do it, they think.


Well the Lord Jesus Christ didn't come for the righteous. He came for the people who couldn't do it.
 
I bet that 100% of those who claim the law of Moses must be followed because they say it has been written on their hearts can't recite 1% of that law from heart.
 
I'm not talking about just the 10 commandments. But even so, I bet you can't recite the 10 verbatim from heart. If you can you're one of very few.

Well Jesus did say few would enter the narrow path. For me God's Commandments themselves help keep me focused. I prepare for His Sabbath each week so I am thinking about schedules and so on. I believe He created some things for food and some things He created not for food, so I am thinking about Him and His Words throughout every day as I eat on the road, or grocery shop.

If I get angry I think about what is the cause, am I angry with or without one. Every time I eat, am in public, see a rainbow, it all brings Him into my mind. What I look at, how I behave, what I eat, when I get up and when I go to sleep.

No, a person who has committed to the Word which became Flesh doesn't forget God's Instructions. Rather, they Live by them with all their heart and all their soul and all their might. I believe this is why Jesus said: "Man does not live by bread alone, but be "EVERY" Word of God"

There is no burdensome requirements to remember, only the influence of our mind and of a World which does not know Him.

I am convinced it is a "You had to be there" moment. Paul speaks to it a little in Col. 2.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

I know of several folks on this forum who could recite most of God's instructions on how to Love Him, and how to Love others..
 
I bet that 100% of those who claim the law of Moses must be followed because they say it has been written on their hearts can't recite 1% of that law from heart.
That's why God wrote it on hearts in this New Covenant instead of on tablets of stone.

When we find ourselves in any one particular situation in life God speaks to us by his Spirit, 'do not commit adultery', or 'do not bear false witness', or 'do not covet your neighbor's spouse or anything that he owns' as is appropriate to the situation.


"Whether you turn to the right or to the left, your ears will hear a voice behind you, saying, “This is the way; walk in it.”"-Isaiah 30:21


"the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you."-1 John 14:26
 
You are closer to being a judaizer than any who believe they should obey God because you want people to obey your rules, and rules are laws not of God.
This is true. They do not realize that they have perverted grace to the same extent that the Pharisees perverted the law.
 
Why should I know any of the Word rote? This question is unseemly if not plainly wickedly intended. This thread is not on the law, but if it were, you demonstrate you do not know what Christ has revealed and taught on the subject.......and you have never read all of my posts on the subject so stop with your holoow accusations and get on the topic of Jesus King of the Jews, of just ignore ME:


I'm not talking about just the 10 commandments. But even so, I bet you can't recite the 10 verbatim from heart. If you can you're one of very few.
 
Do you realize just how unChristian your statement here is? Read it, and think on it and then tell me I am mixing Judaism with Christian..........All wh believe Jesus Christ, according to Christ, are sons of Abraham with the Faithe of Abraham.

I understand you perfectly well.

You want to mix Judaism with Christianity and be "extra" blessed.

In the pride of the judaizers heart they always think they can do what God has commanded. We will do it, they think.


Well the Lord Jesus Christ didn't come for the righteous. He came for the people who couldn't do it.
 
No, dead faith it is not the sign of the unbeliever within context of James.
Well, it certainly is in the context of John's letters (1 John 3:8).

What is it here in James that suggests that the dead faith (no lawful works attached) he is talking about is not the same dead faith John talks about?


James is saying the same thing John is saying. Using Abraham as an example, he says the person with the righteousness that comes through faith is seen in that person's obedience to God. Abraham showed he had God's declaration of righteousness through faith by what he later did in obedience to God. Likewise for us. We show that we have God's declaration of righteousness through believing by our obedience to God. Just as the unrighteous person shows their unrighteousness by their disobedience to God.


"You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."-James 2:24


Note, the word 'justified' does not mean 'to be MADE righteous' here. It means 'to be SHOWN to be righteous'. He's saying what John says:


"The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous. 8The one who does what is sinful is of the devil"-1 John 3:8


John is also saying that faith and works go together. The saved person is marked by works of righteousness, while the person who is not marked by works of righteousness, but rather by works of unrighteousness, is not saved. Dead faith, at the end of the day, shows you are not saved.
 
Why are people opposing the servant increasing the gift of faith, his talent of gold?

We increase our gift by performing the works graced us by God, our Father.

One of the easies works and joyous is doing our best to be in His will as

We pray always they will be done.

His will being done by us is simple, obedience.

I hear and obey Jesus Christ, and He teaches what remains of the law being fuflilled

Is being fulfilled in each of us in whom He began the work of perfecting us.

Now if He is ding the work, then we are honing our obedience utnil His great and glorious Day

When we will all be perfected........by Him while we are in grace.

Grace does not nor can be translated as once saved always saved. If you believe otherwise, you

do not believe the Epistles...
 
Well Jesus did say few would enter the narrow path. For me God's Commandments themselves help keep me focused. I prepare for His Sabbath each week so I am thinking about schedules and so on. I believe He created some things for food and some things He created not for food, so I am thinking about Him and His Words throughout every day as I eat on the road, or grocery shop.

If I get angry I think about what is the cause, am I angry with or without one. Every time I eat, am in public, see a rainbow, it all brings Him into my mind. What I look at, how I behave, what I eat, when I get up and when I go to sleep.

No, a person who has committed to the Word which became Flesh doesn't forget God's Instructions. Rather, they Live by them with all their heart and all their soul and all their might. I believe this is why Jesus said: "Man does not live by bread alone, but be "EVERY" Word of God"

There is no burdensome requirements to remember, only the influence of our mind and of a World which does not know Him.

I am convinced it is a "You had to be there" moment. Paul speaks to it a little in Col. 2.

18 Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

I know of several folks on this forum who could recite most of God's instructions on how to Love Him, and how to Love others..

IMO, the narrow path is believing Jesus is enough. He is the door. He is our rest. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Any gospel that says okay Jesus thanks for the help, but now I can do it from here is perfecting by the flesh. But if it works for you, that's cool. Be lead by the Spirit in your own conviction.
 
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IMO, the narrow path is believing Jesus is enough. He is the door. He is our rest. Apart from Him we can do nothing. Any gospel that says okay Jesus thanks for the help, but now I can do it from here is perfecting by the flesh. But if it works for you, that's cool. Be lead by the Spirit in your own conviction.

Believing in Him enough to claim His reward for yourself is one thing, believing in Him enough to Heed all His Warnings, and deny yourself and do as He instructs is another.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of (Mans) works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Maybe religious man can create their own walk now, maybe the Word has been abolished.

If so, we are both OK.

But if not, if His Word's still stand, then a lot of people are on a path to destruction.

It is for this reason that I post scripture on this forum. Because I believe what He says, and I believe He will do what He says He will do.

But if you are good with men's religious traditions, that's Cool. Be led by the spirit in your heart.

May we all come to the knowledge of the truth.