Do genuine ex-Christians exist? (Discussion Topic)

[Depleted]

Actually, Jesus said it is possible. In the story of the sower in Luke 8, Jesus said:

11 This is the meaning of the parable: The seed is the word of God.12 Those along the path are the ones who hear, and then the devil comes and takes away the word from their hearts, so that they may not believe and be saved. 13 Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. 14 The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. 15 But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

Seems to me the person doing the sowing is of real importance in this story. If we recklessly sow the word of God where it won't take root (sowing our opinions, own understanding, our religious belief systems, etc.), there's no chance for the Truth of Jesus Christ to grow in that person's life. And if we give the word of God to someone and then don't disciple them (teach and be an example), the cares & troubles in this life will discourage them from keeping on the path of righteousness.

The sower is the one bringing the message of God. It's imperative that we introduce people to Jesus Christ, not preach our opinions or our religious belief systems. Only the truth, which is Christ Jesus, can root down and grow in a person spiritually. It's not head knowledge or theology or philosophy that gives us a foundation, the Lord keeps us in Himself. It is literally Christ in us.

Do I think there are genuine Christians who gave up and walked away? Sure, because I was one. Like the one sheep who got away, Jesus rescued me and brought me back to Himself (Truth). I had gotten disillusioned with religion, hypocrisy and modern day Pharisees condemning everyone. But Jesus proved He is faithful and showed me Himself. He said love God (trust & believe Him) and treat others the way you want to be treated. I’m learning more and more, day by day, because He’s the One conforming me into His image, as a Father who trains His child.

I wouldn’t think you have given up completely on the Lord because you’re still drawn to come here to be among Christians, you’re still pondering facets of God’s Truth, still seeking answers. If you had abandoned God altogether, you wouldn’t even be contemplating these thoughts you’re posting or bother coming here at all, ya know? But I'm glad you did.

No matter what, God knows the deepest recesses of your heart. He knows what you need and how to love you. I suggest if you really have questions, ask God Himself. He definitely knows how to answer you. And when God gives you an answer from His own Spirit to yours, it won’t be sown on thorny or rocky ground. It will be truth rooted into your heart so deeply that nobody and nothing in this world will ever be able to take away from you.

Take care, nogard.

Is a pumpkin vine really a pumpkin vine if it never grows any pumpkins? Is and apple tree really an apple tree, if it never grows any apples? Fig tree? (I think Jesus gave a clear indication of his opinion of figless fig trees. lol)

You will know them by their fruit.

If there is no fruit, it's not saved. The seedlings that didn't dig deep into the soil and the plants in the thorns? They're weeds! A pumpkinless pumpkin vine is a weed. An appleless apple tree is a weed. And a figless fig tree is dead, if Jesus passes it twice.

Still don't think there are an ex-Christians. (Stubborn, bullheaded, whiny, pouty, temper-tantrumy Christians, when we're back sliding, but fruit comes eventually, or we never were.)

 

[Depleted]

Maybe I will share my story a little later. I have to leave now for a bit. But just to quickly address this.

I don't think many Christians realize, I know that I certainly didn't, how many of the difficult life questions Christianity has an answer for, so that we don't have to worry about it. As a newborn agnostic, I was rudely awakened to these difficult questions. What is my purpose in life? What should I use as my moral compass? What do I rely on for strength? These are questions as a Christian that I readily and easily had an answer for. Not so much afterwards. That kind of worldview shift can be a little traumatizing at first. Like a big tree with many roots being removed from the soil. The soil is going to be a little messed up for a while, but it will eventually settle, and it did.

Remove "many roots" from a tree, and the tree rots and dies. You're right though. That settles it.

 

[Depleted]

And the OP'er hasn't come back has he?

I think the post about pot stirrer was spot on.

No battles occurred though and his fun was spoiled.

Actually, he came back. He seems to be a night person, (at least in EDT.) And, he seems to go to bed at a reasonable hour, (also assuming EDT. lol)

 

[PennEd]

Yes but they came to a point of disagreement with God and they discarded their relationship with God and then came to the point of disbelief in God..

Disbelief is a far more comfortable position then disagreement.. Disagreeing with God still means there is a All powerful God there who is a threat to the one who disagrees with Him.. So they choose to disbelieve that God even exists so as to give them freedom from fear..

But of course God exists and disbelief cannot make Him cease to exist..

THIS is a hammer meet nail on head post !

 

[Johnny_B]

Ralph I hope you read through the entire post because I answered all of your questions, but with your use of the Bible. I do not understand what you feel the need to say you are not saved, with what you know about the Bible.

‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’-Luke 18:13

There is more involved then those words, you have to look at the posture of the tax collector, it was a response rather then canned word from another person repeated by the one praying. This is a response of repentance to

The ESV “But the tax collector, standing far off, would not even lift up his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, a sinner!’”

Seem like a man that is convicted by his life style while in the presents of the Lord, look at how the Amplified Bible translates it. “But the tax collector, standing at a distance, would not even raise his eyes toward heaven, but was striking his chest [in humility and repentance], saying, ‘God, be merciful and gracious to me, the [especially wicked] sinner [that I am]!’”

If you view a sinners prayer as a response of repentance and this is the sinners pryer that you prayed, youur are regenerate and the Lord put a new heart in you. The common sinners prayer are words that someone else tells another person to pray and that is supposed to save you, if it is not done in repentance like the tax collector did, you might not be saved. No where in the Bible are the people that repent asked to pray a sinners prayer.

Yes, IF they continue in him:.

You have misinterpreted "if" here you are using it as a conditional clause, when it is a conjunction. The word "if" is connecting the two clauses, “in order to present you holy and blameless and above reproach before him, and stable and steadfast, not shifting from the hope of the gospel that you heard”

Here "if" is the connection of what Christ is doing in your life as a Christian and the proof is our completed faith because Christ is going "to present you" you are not presenting yourself.

I don't think many once saved always saved people of the Calvinist persuasion realize that even Calvinism itself says you can not know if you are among the elect (who can never be lost) until the end. And that's supposed to be the doctrine of security and assurance.

The real and Biblical doctrine of security is as long as you are believing you have the security of Christ in salvation. And you have the assurance of that salvation if you are producing it's fruit.

The security is in Christ because it is and His finished work that saves us and if that is what Calvinist believe they do not have confidence in Christ and His work. Because the Bible says that we cannot see the kingdom of God unless we are born again, so the Lord has to put a new heart in you by regeneration or being born again to see the kingdom and when one sees the kingdom they will know that they need to repent to besaved.

John 3:3 “Jesus answered him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

The Bible also says that those in the flesh hate God, Romans 1:29-31 “They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips, 30slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents, 31foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.”

People that read the Bible daily to know Him better and love the body of Christ are not haters of God.

Then he turns right around and tells those who did not leave to continue to abide and not be deceived. So we know John was not trying to make the point that absolutely everyone who leaves was never saved to begin with and those who are saved can't leave.

Where does John say in I John 2:19 that you have to abide? He doesn't! He also says that those that are saved stay with us they do not leave. Here's what amazes me is that you view it as "those who are saved can't leave." as if the Lord is an evil task master. I know a few guys that have been in prison and are now out and they have no desire to go back. Why would someone that was a slave to sin want to go back to sin, after being set free"

If they keep believing.

II Timothy 2:11-13 “The saying is trustworthy, for: if we have died with him, we will also live with him; 12if we endure, we will also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us; 13if we are faithless, he remains faithful—for he cannot deny himself.”

Here's what you see, God starts you by saving you then leaves it up to you to keep your salvation as if a person can keep it by what they do. Here's what Romans 3:21-26 says in the Amplified Bible, the Amplified is a translation that the interpreters help the reader understand the fuller meaning of the Greek.

“But now the righteousness of God has been clearly revealed [independently and completely] apart from the Law, though it is [actually] confirmed by the Law and the [words and writings of the] Prophets. 22This righteousness of God comes through faith in Jesus Christ for all those [Jew or Gentile] who believe [and trust in Him and acknowledge Him as God’s Son]. There is no distinction, 23since all have sinned and continually fall short of the glory of God, 24and are being justified [declared free of the guilt of sin, made acceptable to God, and granted eternal life] as a gift by His [precious, undeserved] grace, through the redemption [the payment for our sin] which is [provided] in Christ Jesus, 25whom God displayed publicly [before the eyes of the world] as a [life-giving] sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation (propitiation) by His blood [to be received] through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness [which demands punishment for sin], because in His forbearance [His deliberate restraint] He passed over the sins previously committed [before Jesus’ crucifixion]. 26It was to demonstrate His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the One who justifies those who have faith in Jesus [and rely confidently on Him as Savior].”

Our salvation is by His grace and mercy (His pity on us) it is not by any works that we do as Titus tells us in 3:4-7
“But when the goodness and kindness of God our Savior and His love for mankind appeared [in human form as the Man, Jesus Christ], 5He saved us, not because of any works of righteousness that we have done, but because of His own compassion and mercy, by the cleansing of the new birth (spiritual transformation, regeneration) and renewing by the Holy Spirit, 6whom He poured out richly upon us through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7so that we would be justified [made free of the guilt of sin] by His [compassionate, undeserved] grace, and that we would be [acknowledged as acceptable to Him and] made heirs of eternal life [actually experiencing it] according to our hope (His guarantee).”

We all have sin in our lives, I know many believe that we a forgiven from our sins, when we are forgiven from the guilt of our sins. So the sin is still there but the guilt is gone, we really need to look at Romans 3:27-30

“Then what becomes of [our] boasting? It is excluded [entirely ruled out, banished]. On what principle? On [the principle of good] works? No, but on the principle of faith. 28For we maintain that an individual is justified by faith distinctly apart from works of the Law [the observance of which has nothing to do with justification, that is, being declared free of the guilt of sin and made acceptable to God]. 29Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not also the God of Gentiles [who were not given the Law]? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30since indeed it is one [and the same] God who will justify the circumcised by faith [which began with Abraham] and the uncircumcised through [their newly acquired] faith.”

The person who is presently believing is indeed presently saved. The admonition of scripture is to keep believing.

To believe is in the present continuous form which is what "believe" in John 3:16 is in the present continuous so it reads, “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believing in him should not perish but have eternal life.”

So those that are believing in His Son should not perish but have everlasting life. Those that are saved believe and continue to believe, which takes us back to Colossians 1:21-23.

 

[notuptome]

The short answer is no.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[posthuman]

Remove "many roots" from a tree, and the tree rots and dies. You're right though. That settles it.

With the tree gone all that's left is dust.

 

[joefizz]

I can give you an example of a true believer and a heavenly host member who was truly an angel but lost his way and that was Lucifer who was high in the ranking of angels maybe even the highest posting of God's angels and we are told he at one point worshiped God.

Lucifer changed his mind and we know him as Satan the Devil now he lost his faith in God and traded it for faith in himself.... He will never admit that he is truly sorry for what he has done to his dying day... But Lucifer was a true believing angel at one point in his life.....

Ex-Christian can happen.

That's not "accurate" lucifer "went against God" he didn't "lose faith in God" he wanted to be "his own master" it is not unheard of for a servant to "challenge" his or her own master,think of how many times the Israelites "rebelled" against God,think of how many children "test" their "parents" it's really quite trivial often an individual wants to see "what they can get away with".
The former angel luciferwho is now a demon as satan is no different,think of it why would someone as favored,strong,good looking,and clever as satan challenge God?
Because he knew he would be in for quite the contest of power,that's where part of the "temptation" came from,"God's power and leadership" he sincerely thought he could "overthrow God" but he was defeated.
Why does he continue to persist on war with God?
Because from his own vantage point with angels on his side and challenging God he most likely felt he was "so close" to his goal and so he won't be "satisfied" that he has been "outmatched" until God finally sends him into oblivion.
It's one thing to "never believe" but to believe and then "willfully" go against God is "quite different" and of course in lucifer/satan's case there was no promise of Jesus and so therefore he wasn't under "condemnation" of unbelief,more of his charge would be classified as "willful heresy",and "treason" not "unbelief" or "losing faith" after all even to do this day just as in the garden of eden satan still has "faith" that God will never "kill him" just as a rebellious child who thinks they won't be punished for doing wrong.

 

[joefizz]

That's not "accurate" lucifer "went against God" he didn't "lose faith in God" he wanted to be "his own master" it is not unheard of for a servant to "challenge" his or her own master,think of how many times the Israelites "rebelled" against God,think of how many children "test" their "parents" it's really quite trivial often an individual wants to see "what they can get away with".
The former angel luciferwho is now a demon as satan is no different,think of it why would someone as favored,strong,good looking,and clever as satan challenge God?
Because he knew he would be in for quite the contest of power,that's where part of the "temptation" came from,"God's power and leadership" he sincerely thought he could "overthrow God" but he was defeated.
Why does he continue to persist on war with God?
Because from his own vantage point with angels on his side and challenging God he most likely felt he was "so close" to his goal and so he won't be "satisfied" that he has been "outmatched" until God finally sends him into oblivion.
It's one thing to "never believe" but to believe and then "willfully" go against God is "quite different" and of course in lucifer/satan's case there was no promise of Jesus and so therefore he wasn't under "condemnation" of unbelief,more of his charge would be classified as "willful heresy",and "treason" not "unbelief" or "losing faith" after all even to do this day just as in the garden of eden satan still has "faith" that God will never "kill him" just as a rebellious child who thinks they won't be punished for doing wrong.

Regarding "faith" in God/Jesus it's either you "believe" or you "don't believe" there is no in between or start and then stop believing possibility.
Eventually one ideal overlaps the other.

 

[BillG]

I'm a woman. I spent many decades blaming my flake outs on PMS, only to discover, now that I don't have PMS, I still flake out! I cannot afford to base my life on feelings. I drive! I wait at the cashier line in crowded grocery stores. I watch politicians talk. I see idiots running their vehicles into crowds. A thug just got out of prison near me because our DA (district attorney, since y'all have barristers) decided a rapper who beats up people and cops, and who cannot get parole means notifying someone when you leave the state, is more important then the people he terrifies. I really can't go by feelings. I'm not a rapper, so wouldn't get a Get Out of Jail (Gaol) Free card.

I'd love to hear you do a rap.

 

[joefizz]

Regarding "faith" in God/Jesus it's either you "believe" or you "don't believe" there is no in between or start and then stop believing possibility.
Eventually one ideal overlaps the other.

Now if one were talking about "faith" as in going through a time of "doubt" that happens to "everyone" whether "believing"'or "not believing" in God/Jesus,because we can start to feel "pain",feel "discouraged" or maybe just plain "down" and start thinking thoughts like "maybe" or "am I doing right","I don't know" or possibly the most common question we ask ourselves "Why".
These questions "define our lives and faith" because when they are "left unanswered" or "given answers" then an individual changes their outlook on life "gradually" whether "intentionally" or "unintentionally" building a foundation for ourselves to rely on for support.

 

[LPT]

"The heart is deceitful for out from it cometh murderers,fornicators,and liars".

And others,,, Since you open the door, I'll say this hopefully you have ended your scant through the play ground get my drift...

 

[LPT]

Yes loving others is being vulnerable.
And if are willing to be hurt whilst loving then we are walking in true love.

I think in a sense before we come to faith our hearts are hard.
Not towards others as such. I know many people who are not believers but do genuinely love others.
But that tends to be to those that love them back.

Jesus address this.

Matthew 5:44-48
44 But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so? 48 Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

But we know God does give as a new heart

Ezekiel 36:26-27
26 I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will take the heart of stone out of your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments and do them.

What I find interesting and you mentioned Peter.

His emotions and fear led him to deny Jesus.
He feared for his own life.

When Jesus restored him he asked him 3 times "Do you love me?
3 times Peter replied "Yes I love you"

But

The first two times Jesus said "Do you agape me? (Perfect love, one that is willing to die for, the same love Jesus has for us)
Peter responded with "I Phileo love you (brotherly love)

The third time Jesus asks Peter "Do you Phileo me"

Peter gets upset.

Yet we know Peter moved from Phileo to Agape.
Peter was killed as a result of his Agape love for Jesus.

A heart that denied him to a heart that dies for him.

I think part of the problem is that when we read the Bible we see great men of God willing to die.
It's like they never struggled.

Yet when we look at Peter and David and others it's a different story

Luke 5:8
8 When Simon Peter saw it, he fell down at Jesus’ knees, saying, “Depart from me, for I am a sinful man, O Lord!”

indeed brother, looking at some of the post after our conversation, I've notice many are saying we can't trust our hearts and feelings, in one way this true but in another it is what have to know God and to Love. Jesus said Love God with all your Heart how can a person truly do that if they walk around not trusting their heart or feelings about it, the answer is not to close these things but to be wise as serpents because the heart is fragile and yes it can be deceived, I think people don't truly understand that statement when the bible says the heart is deceitful, there is another who is the author of such things. so indeed a heart can be bad or good. It can be of deception or truth.

 

[LPT]

I'm a woman. I spent many decades blaming my flake outs on PMS, only to discover, now that I don't have PMS, I still flake out! I cannot afford to base my life on feelings. I drive! I wait at the cashier line in crowded grocery stores. I watch politicians talk. I see idiots running their vehicles into crowds. A thug just got out of prison near me because our DA (district attorney, since y'all have barristers) decided a rapper who beats up people and cops, and who cannot get parole means notifying someone when you leave the state, is more important then the people he terrifies. I really can't go by feelings. I'm not a rapper, so wouldn't get a Get Out of Jail (Gaol) Free card.

You say can't go by feelings but you just have that stuff above upsets your emotions/feelings, surely I did as well. So yea you rely on your feelings and emotions more than you even know. Me thinks there is something from a long time ago that still effects your feelings and emotions, those flake outs.

 

[Ariel82]

Hello,

It has been a while since I've been on this site. Just cleaning up my bookmarks and thought I'd revisit to ask a simple question and see what responses we get.

The question is simple. Do ex-Christians exist? Are there people out there who once had genuine faith in Jesus Christ, but now no longer believe in God? It's an interesting question because different denominations have different starting points on this. Pentecostals will openly admit that such people exist, and have lost their salvation as a result of their denunciation. More Calvinist leaning denominations, like the Baptists, will staunchly deny that such people exist. There's simply no room for genuine exChristians in Calvinist theology.

But before we begin, I guess we need to clarify what it means to be a genuine Christian. For purposes of this discussion, and feel free to comment if you disagree, a genuine Christian is defined as an individual who acknowledged that they have sinned and fallen short of God's glory. They believe in Jesus Christ and what is written in the Bible. They believe Jesus is God, and He died on the cross for us, so that through Him we can be saved from our sin. They profess Jesus as Lord and invite the Holy Spirit to dwell inside them to guide them through life. They develop a repentant heart, where they turn from former sin and feel convicted when commit sin. They love the Lord and are genuine in their faith. This is a true believer.

So is it possible, for a true believer, as defined above, to one day struggle with their faith, for whatever reasons, and eventually lose their faith entirely as a result of that struggle, to the point where they no longer believe God exists?

According to those who claim to be genuine ex-Christians, the answer is an easy yes. A quick search online and you will find several communities of people proclaiming to be just that. Their stories are varied. Some were former missionaries or pastors. Others lost their faith while attending Christian college. Some were pastors kids. They share their testimony about how they came to Christ and their Christian life, testimonies that resemble one of any true believer. But then for one reason or another, a crisis of faith arose in their life, and it ended with them no longer believing.

So why this long-winded topic? Well, while several Christians completely acknowledge the existence of these people, and use them as evidence of how salvation can be lost, there is a large group of Christians who, despite any evidence ex-Christians try to give to prove that they were once genuine, refuse to believe that ex-Christians exist. They're response is quite simple: A true believer would never lose their faith, thus, these people must have never been true believers.

It's a response that's viewed as insulting to the ex-Christian community, as they feel it dismisses them without even hearing them out. Simply by no longer believing now, whatever they believed or experienced before must not have been genuine. End of discussion....

...Or is it? That's what I want to do here. How exactly does the latter dismiss the former? If they themselves were being genuine in their faith at the time, how can that be considered ingenuine? And if you truly believe they were never saved, then does that mean when I prayed as a young child for Jesus to come into my heart, that God said no?

Woops, didn't mean to make it personal. But it is personal. I exist. Living proof that it is very possible to live your life as a genuine follower of Jesus Christ but eventually come to a place where I lost that faith. If you don't agree with that, then let's discuss this, and try to get to the bottom of this tricky topic.

I believe there are people who truly believe themselves to be Christians, have all the outward signs, even inwardly seek to do God's will in their life.

However how I define a true Christian is one who has the Holy Spirit telling them they are a child of God. A Mature Christian is grounded in Christ able to discern good and bad doctrines.

I believe an immature Christian can lose their faith and wander away, but i also believe God will place people and events in their life to lead them back to Him.

I also believe many people who believe themselves to be Christians and then walk away .at never have known or truly believe the Gospel: Jesus died for their sins and they have become adopted by God and have the Holy spirit to lead and guide them.

Some people never learn how to pray or hear God speak to them and lead them.

Without a personal relationship with God, the person isn't a genuine Christian..even if they genuinely believe it.

 

[1ofthem]

indeed brother, looking at some of the post after our conversation, I've notice many are saying we can't trust our hearts and feelings, in one way this true but in another it is what have to know God and to Love. Jesus said Love God with all your Heart how can a person truly do that if they walk around not trusting their heart or feelings about it, the answer is not to close these things but to be wise as serpents because the heart is fragile and yes it can be deceived, I think people don't truly understand that statement when the bible says the heart is deceitful, there is another who is the author of such things. so indeed a heart can be bad or good. It can be of deception or truth.

Yeah, I totally understand what you are saying...Faith is something you can feel. When he saved me he gave me peace and joy. I could feel true love like never before...So yeah there is a feeling in this.

And like you said sometimes the heart can be deceitful and want what it wants. So we can't always go by feelings because the enemy is a sly trickster and the flesh is weak. So I always hold my feelings up to the Word of God and I know if it goes against the word of God then it is not of God it is of the enemy.

But anyhow yes, I am so glad that when he saved me he gave me something I can feel and what I got within my heart, I know it's real. He gave me something I can feel.
[video=youtube;tZQ73IVbcDc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZQ73IVbcDc[/video]

 

[joefizz]

indeed brother, looking at some of the post after our conversation, I've notice many are saying we can't trust our hearts and feelings, in one way this true but in another it is what have to know God and to Love. Jesus said Love God with all your Heart how can a person truly do that if they walk around not trusting their heart or feelings about it, the answer is not to close these things but to be wise as serpents because the heart is fragile and yes it can be deceived, I think people don't truly understand that statement when the bible says the heart is deceitful, there is another who is the author of such things. so indeed a heart can be bad or good. It can be of deception or truth.

The "full scripture" is...
"Love thy God with all thy heart,mind,soul,and strength" the heart is just one part of an entire whole,Jesus told this expressing that it is "not enough" to merely humble one's heart,or one's mind,but rather "all" to God.

 

[Depleted]

With the tree gone all that's left is dust.

Why did my mind just get stuck on a Kansas song from the 70s?

 

[Rosemaryx]

Yeah, I totally understand what you are saying...Faith is something you can feel. When he saved me he gave me peace and joy. I could feel true love like never before...So yeah there is a feeling in this.

And like you said sometimes the heart can be deceitful and want what it wants. So we can't always go by feelings because the enemy is a sly trickster and the flesh is weak. So I always hold my feelings up to the Word of God and I know if it goes against the word of God then it is not of God it is of the enemy.

But anyhow yes, I am so glad that when he saved me he gave me something I can feel and what I got within my heart, I know it's real. He gave me something I can feel.
[video=youtube;tZQ73IVbcDc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZQ73IVbcDc[/video]

This video not available...xox...

 

[Depleted]

I'd love to hear you do a rap.

You'd want to use and awl in your ears, if I did.