Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Ralph-]

Those were a rabbinical invention called the laws of Noah.

...anything to make it so the council is not telling the gentiles to obey the law, right?


The problem with this argument is not all of the laws of Moses they want the gentiles to obey is a Noahide law. Maybe we can think of another law it might belong to so we don't have to concede that these are the laws of Moses that they are telling them to keep.

 

[JaumeJ]

The rich man was told something like, hir brothers would not believe even someone risen from the dead, and so it is with all who teach against what Jesus Christ has taught all, never teach against even the least of the laws.

God's people never have been very good at listening to the people the Father sends to teach us. Jesus certainly is no exception.

 

[JaumeJ]

Once more, but inbrief.

The first Israel was guided by writings given to Moses and headed by God.

They were disobedient so salvation was gained by all nations theat come to God.

The Eternal Israel also is headed by God, our King and He governs us in Love.
We must love also, and love are the new "rules of government," that is those laws
which are contained in love.......they should be on the hearts of all who believe
making them joyous to obey them

 

[Ralph-]

(Was that the Daily version of What's My Line..you are kind of young for that one R.?)

It was before my time but I caught clips of it here and there.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

God's people never have been very good at listening to the people the Father sends to teach us. Jesus certainly is no exception.

I'm starting to get what you're about. Teaching doctrines of men under-girded by a supposed authority that only exists in the minds of those who can be manipulated by fear and vague accusations of guilt. What it really boils down to is followers of such doctrines end up following both Moses and Jesus half-heartedly because of the contradictions and confusion. GOD is not the author of confusion, and his children don't need men claiming "pastoral authority over the church" to try to reconcile all of their man-made contradictions.

 

[JaumeJ]

Thank you R. not for th like but for the wonderful edifications and uplifting of the soul, for me anyway.

Once more, but inbrief.

The first Israel was guided by writings given to Moses and headed by God.

They were disobedient so salvation was gained by all nations theat come to God.

The Eternal Israel also is headed by God, our King and He governs us in Love.
We must love also, and love are the new "rules of government," that is those laws
which are contained in love.......they should be on the hearts of all who believe
making them joyous to obey them

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

...anything to make it so the council is not telling the gentiles to obey the law, right?


The problem with this argument is not all of the laws of Moses they want the gentiles to obey is a Noahide law. Maybe we can think of another law it might belong to so we don't have to concede that these are the laws of Moses that they are telling them to keep.

It's not a question of obeying the law, it's a matter of obeying Jesus and his apostles.

I don't know why you can't get through your head that the Noahide laws the Jerusalem council authorized were not for righteous' sake, but so that that the gentiles wouldn't offend their Jewish hosts, who required their observance by gentiles attending their synagogues.

 

[Budman]

You need to keep the law regarding not hating. It's your responsibility as someone who says they believe.


‘Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against anyone among your people, but love your neighbor as yourself.'-Leviticus 19:18


Holding grudges, and taking revenge to hurt people do not come from the Spirit of God.

Faith upholds the law. If you can't obey this law then you may not be born again.

Aaaand we're back to you questioning my salvation based on the false charge that I'm holding a "grudge" and seeking to "hurt " you.

I just think it's hilarious (and a little sad) that you'll hurl Levitical laws at me, while knowing full well you yourself can't keep them.

Well, two can play your little game.

Leviticus 3:17 says you are not to eat fat, as a lasting ordinance for generations to come. Have you? If you can't obey this law you may not be born again.

Leviticus 5:2 says you are not to touch an unclean animal. If you've done this, you may not be born again.

Leviticus 19:11, 16 says not to lie or spread slander. (Which you've done). If you can't obey this law, you may not be born again.

Leviticus 19:19 says not to mix fabrics of clothing. have you? If you can't obey this law, you may not be born again.

Leviticus 19:32 says you are to stand in the presence of the elderly. Do you always do this? If you can't obey this law, you may not be born again.

Leviticus 23:3 says you are not to work on the sabbath. Have you? If you can't obey this law, you may not be born again.

Leviticus says not to cut your hair at the sides, or to trim the edges of your beard. Have you? If you can't obey this law, you may not be born again.


Poor Ralph. So many laws to obey, so little time.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Only if the reason they are trying to keep the law is to be justified by the law.

Messianic believers aren't trying to mix law and grace any more than you are when you only keep part of the law.

People of the world are not trying to be justified by the law ,although they will be judged by It and found wanting.

If the person Is not trying to mix law with grace then they believe In Grace alone,right?

 

[seed_time_harvest]

It is very difficult to get through to grace-only folks that in their great love for us all they are keeping the laws that are being fulfilled in them.........they think they received grace and that is it.

Salvation is by grace only, but life after salvationis obeying our Dad..............If you do not believe inobeying your Hevenly Father then
you are not in His will. Do you ever pray "Thy will be done?"

You are right when you say SALVATION Is by grace alone and I think that that Is where the misunderstanding starts.I believe that after salvation we should present our bodies a living sacrifice and through obedience to faith prove that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD.I Call this conditional sanctification.

 

[Grandpa]

Originally Posted by Grandpa
Galatians 3:10

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

You mean place yourself back under the curse?​

​

No, obeying God's commands is not putting yourself back under the curse. You are to obey God's commands because that's what saved people were saved to do, and if they don't they are ultimately showing themselves to not be saved.

Do you mean the 10 commandments?

If you are trying to obey the 10 commandments how is that not working at them?

 

[so-jesus-e-deus]

We have to keep the love, because who loves the neighbor fulfills the law:

• Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Rom 13.8-10).

 

[JaumeJ]

Is it not presenting our bodies as a lving sacrifice, as we are "killed all the day long" to obey unto death?

When you repeat the prayer given us al by our Lord and King, do you say "thye will be done" or do you say I now live in grace so my will be done, not Yours?"

Do yo know that God's will is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and in Christ's taching it He informs all not to teach agains the least of the laws remaining which are to be obeyed.

You are right when you say SALVATION Is by grace alone and I think that that Is where the misunderstanding starts.I believe that after salvation we should present our bodies a living sacrifice and through obedience to faith prove that good and acceptable and perfect will of GOD.I Call this conditional sanctification.

 

[Ralph-]

If you are trying to obey the 10 commandments how is that not working at them?

Because it is NOT being done for the purpose of justification (earning right standing with God).

I know the concept escapes you (and most other Christians), that somehow a person can keep a law of Moses and it not be them trying to justify themselves. You can't fathom keeping a law of Moses for any reason other than trying to earn your own salvation by doing that. But if you would just look at your own life you'd see that is what you are doing.

When you choose to not murder, or not steal, or not commit adultery you are keeping the law of Moses for a reason other than trying to be justified by it. Yet you are sure that it is impossible that the Messianic believer who keeps the law can ONLY be doing that to be justified.

 

[mailmandan]

Do yo know that God's will is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and in Christ's taching it He informs all not to teach agains the least of the laws remaining which are to be obeyed.

Are you confusing the Gospel of Christ which is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (1 Corinthians 15:1-4; Romans 1:16; Ephesians 3:1-9) with everything that is written in the 4 Gospel accounts?

 

[Ralph-]

People of the world are not trying to be justified by the law ,although they will be judged by It and found wanting.

And so you can see that the gentiles are in fact under the law.

If the person Is not trying to mix law with grace then they believe In Grace alone,right?

Yes. The person who does not mix law for justification with justification through grace believes in 'salvation by grace through faith, apart from works'-Romans 4:6. And the person now justified by grace apart from works then upholds the law by his faith-Romans 3:31.

The contention lies in which laws HAVE to be literally kept by the person who has been justified by faith in Christ. Of course, one would not HAVE to sacrifice an animal to be justified if they are already justified through their faith in Christ. On this basis the believer can decide in his own heart and mind and conscience which ceremonial laws of worship, cleanliness, and separation he must keep as a believer justified in Christ, and we need to let them.

But the bottom line is, the law of Moses was not destroyed by the coming of Christ. He said he did not come to do that. It's just that some laws simply don't have to be literally kept for the person who has been brought near to God through the new way of faith in Christ's blood.

 

[garee]

Because it is NOT being done for the purpose of justification (earning right standing with God).

I know the concept escapes you (and most other Christians), that somehow a person can keep a law of Moses and it not be them trying to justify themselves. You can't fathom keeping a law of Moses for any reason other than trying to earn your own salvation by doing that. But if you would just look at your own life you'd see that is what you are doing.

When you choose to not murder, or not steal, or not commit adultery you are keeping the law of Moses for a reason other than trying to be justified by it. Yet you are sure that it is impossible that the Messianic believer who keeps the law can ONLY be doing that to be justified.

From my experiences it has to do with how the word keep is used.For new creatures to keep is to guard closely with all our new heart and soul. Only Christ can keep it perfectly. To violate the least of the law is to be found guilty of the whole .

If Christ was to take in account one wrong suffered who could stand before his throne of Grace and receive Mercy ? He has paid for all of our iniquities or he has not paid the price for one

We can keep it by guarding it seeing in the end of the matter it as His armor guards us, we defend His perfect law of faith .

The law of the Lord is perfect it quicken our new souls giving us simply ones His understanding.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

We have to keep the love, because who loves the neighbor fulfills the law:

• Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law. For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (Rom 13.8-10).

And the reason we are able to keep the two commandments Is because GOD first loved us.

 

[mailmandan]

From my experiences it has to do with how the word keep is used.For new creatures to keep is to guard closely with all our new heart and soul. Only Christ can keep it perfectly. To violate the least of the law is to be found guilty of the whole .

If Christ was to take in account one wrong suffered who could stand before his throne of Grace and receive Mercy ? He has paid for all of our iniquities or he has not paid the price for one

We can keep it by guarding it seeing in the end of the matter it as His armor guards us, we defend His perfect law of faith .

The law of the Lord is perfect it quicken our new souls giving us simply ones His understanding.

Strong's Concordance #5083
téreó: to watch over, to guard
Original Word: τηρέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: téreó
Phonetic Spelling: (tay-reh'-o)
Short Definition: I keep, guard, observe
Definition: I keep, guard, observe, watch over.
HELPS Word-studies
5083 tēréō (from tēros, "a guard") – properly, maintain (preserve); (figuratively) spiritually guard (watch), keep intact.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Is it not presenting our bodies as a lving sacrifice, as we are "killed all the day long" to obey unto death?

When you repeat the prayer given us al by our Lord and King, do you say "thye will be done" or do you say I now live in grace so my will be done, not Yours?"

Do yo know that God's will is the Gospel of Jesus Christ, and in Christ's taching it He informs all not to teach agains the least of the laws remaining which are to be obeyed.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you.Would you be In agreement with salvation Is by GOD’s grace alone and after we have been saved we are then obedient to GOD’s word as we walk In the world?