Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[Grandpa]

I and all the family in Jesus Christ, Yeshua,

are saved from the guilt of our sin, justified, by the Blood of Jesus Christ, this is where you mentionSalvation.

Every time you mention being justified, you are making direct reference to Salvation for we need no other wayi to
being saved than justification for the guilt of our sin by the Blood of Jesus Chrsit.

Now, stop deflecting from issues by changing the meaning of what people post, that is of the enemy, not of truth.

Me stop deflecting... That's rich.

The only time I mention justification is in response to legalists and judaizers to tell them that I haven't been mentioning it!!!

They are the ones that bring it up as an EXCUSE.

We don't do it for this reason, we don't do it for that reason. That's fantastic. Then what IS the reason you do it?

Why do you work at the Law of Moses? Why do you work at the 10 commandments? There must be a reason.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sorry, you call yourself Grandpa, but you conduct your conversation as an unlearned child. In this post you admit you mention what I have posted on, but apparently you do not have the continence to discern your own conversation. I am not here to unwind it for you.

I pray that you find the true way and manner in grace. At present you are teaching it is not only allowable todissregard the laws that remain but advisable, and this is not of the Holy Spirit....

Me stop deflecting... That's rich.

The only time I mention justification is in response to legalists and judaizers to tell them that I haven't been mentioning it!!!

They are the ones that bring it up as an EXCUSE.

We don't do it for this reason, we don't do it for that reason. That's fantastic. Then what IS the reason you do it?

Why do you work at the Law of Moses? Why do you work at the 10 commandments? There must be a reason.

 

[Grandpa]

Sorry, you call yourself Grandpa, but you conduct your conversation as an unlearned child. In this post you admit you mention what I have posted on, but apparently you do not have the continence to discern your own conversation. I am not here to unwind it for you.

I pray that you find the true way and manner in grace. At present you are teaching it is not only allowable todissregard the laws that remain but advisable, and this is not of the Holy Spirit....

Wow.

That was sure profitable...

Apparently all the legalists and judaizers are afraid to tell anyone what their TRUE reason is for working at the law.


Its ok, judaizers. We already know the answer. No matter how you dance around it with your silly rhetoric.

 

[Ralph-]

This makes no sense to me. What other laws were they instructed to keep?

The prohibition against blood is not a Noahide law. It's a Mosaic law. So the argument that the council was not telling them to keep various Mosaic laws has no foundation.

 

[Ralph-]

In this particular case, the teaching that believers must keep Jesus' law and Moses' law, even though they contradict each other in multiple places.

List the contradictions you see exist between the law of Moses and what Jesus taught and we'll discuss them.

...the law isn't abolished, only parts of it are. Totally unscriptural and total confusion.

When you understand that the word 'abolished' means 'made obsolete and no longer needed' you'll begin to get it.

Some laws we simply don't need anymore. They aren't destroyed (Jesus said he did not come to do that). They have been made obsolete by the work of Christ on the cross. Animal sacrifice for sin is the most understandable example of Christ making a law obsolete and not needed.....not destroyed and ripped from the law, but made so we don't have to literally keep it anymore. On the other hand, it's obvious that Christ's work on the cross does not make 'love your neighbor as yourself' obsolete and no longer needed.

See how easy that was?

 

[JaumeJ]

Is this all you have left? Labeling, name-calling. I would be offended if I even suspected you knew what you were saying.

I see you have it down to a couple of words, pointless, meaningless.

Wow.

That was sure profitable...

Apparently all the legalists and judaizers are afraid to tell anyone what their TRUE reason is for working at the law.


Its ok, judaizers. We already know the answer. No matter how you dance around it with your silly rhetoric.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

List the contradictions you see exist between the law of Moses and what Jesus taught and we'll discuss them.

When you understand that the word 'abolished' means 'made obsolete and no longer needed' you'll begin to get it.

Some laws we simply don't need anymore. They aren't destroyed (Jesus said he did not come to do that). They have been made obsolete by the work of Christ on the cross. Animal sacrifice for sin is the most understandable example of Christ making a law obsolete and not needed.....not destroyed and ripped from the law, but made so we don't have to literally keep it anymore. On the other hand, it's obvious that Christ's work on the cross does not make 'love your neighbor as yourself' obsolete and no longer needed.

See how easy that was?

It's all obsolete. We don't have to follow the command to not murder if we follow the command to not hate. That is simplicity. People can follow the command to not murder and still be murderers at heart.

'love your neighbor as yourself' is Christ's law, but it is only one very small part of the law of Moses. Christ simplified things by taking the very essence of the law of Moses ('love your neighbor as yourself') and making it his law.

Apart from edification there is no use for the law of Moses.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The prohibition against blood is not a Noahide law. It's a Mosaic law. So the argument that the council was not telling them to keep various Mosaic laws has no foundation.

The 4 laws listed in Acts 15:20, 29 are an early form of the Noahide laws. That oral tradition was not formalized into the 7 laws that comprise it now until the Talmud was committed to writing 3 to 4 centuries later.

The idea that the Jerusalem council would pull that one law from the law of Moses, that Paul and Jesus said (in so many words) was absolutely irrelevant to the Christian walk, and compel gentiles to observe it to make GOD happy makes me doubt the ability of those who suggest such to fully understand what the gospel is.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The prohibition against blood is not a Noahide law. It's a Mosaic law. So the argument that the council was not telling them to keep various Mosaic laws has no foundation.

The 4 laws listed in Acts 15:20, 29 are an early form of the Noahide laws. That oral tradition was not formalized into the 7 laws that comprise it now until the Talmud was committed to writing 3 to 4 centuries later.

But you don't have to take my word for it. I would think that the Jewish Encyclopedia would be a good source to know what Jews' own laws were.

From > NEW TESTAMENT - JewishEncyclopedia.com

For great as was the success of Barnabas and Paul in the heathen world, the authorities in Jerusalem insisted upon circumcision as the condition of admission of members into the church, until, on the initiative of Peter, and of James, the head of the Jerusalem church, it was agreed that acceptance of the Noachian Laws—namely, regarding avoidance of idolatry, fornication, and the eating of flesh cut from a living animal—should be demanded of the heathen desirous of entering the Church

From > SAUL OF TARSUS - JewishEncyclopedia.com

According to Acts xiii., xiv., xvii-xviii. (see Jew. Encyc. ix. 252-254, s.v. New Testament), Paul began working along the traditional Jewish line of proselytizing in the various synagogues where the proselytes of the gate and the Jews met; and only because he failed to win the Jews to his views, encountering strong opposition and persecution from them, did he turn to the Gentile world after he had agreed at a convention with the apostles at Jerusalem to admit the Gentiles into the Church only as proselytes of the gate, that is, after their acceptance of the Noachian laws (Acts xv. 1-31).

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen.

People must make at least an attempt to learn how it has changed by learning the Word. For now the majority do not. They stop at being free of the curse of the law saying the law is destroyed by Jesus Christ. All should hear Him on all of the subject.

See he yells at us by saying we slander him, yet here he is slandering us.

no one says he law is destroyed, please stop with your mockery and bearing false witness.

the CURSE of the law is destroyed (see how leaving one word out causes a false representation of others?)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Most folks still read Moses with tht veil over their eyes, not seeing what is no more and what yet is. There was excuse until Jesus came to teach all of the grace of our Father, but to continue understanding the law with blinders is quite frankly ignoring the teaching of the Gospel of Jesus christ, Yeshua.

Yes you do, he veil of judaism, and not the veil of Christ,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Where have I mentioned salvation???

That is another excuse of the legalist and judaizer.

'But we don't do it to gain salvation...'

Then why do you do it? Why don't we focus more on what gains us salvation and less on what gives us "extra credit" or whatever reason you do the extra stuff.

Amen, hey are the ones making it a salvation issue, not us, we are talking about following the law period.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sorry, you call yourself Grandpa, but you conduct your conversation as an unlearned child. In this post you admit you mention what I have posted on, but apparently you do not have the continence to discern your own conversation. I am not here to unwind it for you.

I pray that you find the true way and manner in grace. At present you are teaching it is not only allowable todissregard the laws that remain but advisable, and this is not of the Holy Spirit....

Once again

1. Deflecting (blame shift)
2. puffing self up (i did no wrong, your wrong)
3. refusal to repent when shown he is wrong

And he wonders why people say he does not reflect christ at all.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Galatians 3:2-3
[FONT=&][SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

2 Corinthians 3:6-8
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Galatians 3:24-25
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Matthew 11:28 [/FONT][FONT=&]Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.



Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Romans 8:1-2
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[/FONT][FONT=&]

[FONT=&]1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[/FONT][FONT=&][SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


These would be contradictions if you tried to follow the Gospel and Moses at the same time.
[/FONT]​

[/FONT][FONT=&]
[/FONT]​

Excellent,EXCELLENT scriptures.

 

[JaumeJ]

Sadly to use these scriptures relating to be a slav of the entire law as some kind of evidence that we are not to obey Jesus Christ when He teaches us the law is to be obeyed according to His new and bright light is just another demonstration of peple since the time the Jews read teh law with a vei over their eys is yet the problem

You see if the Hebrews were readig the law witha veil, it tells me the did not see God's mercy and salvation, just like the Scribes and teh Pharisees.

So the veil is yet over the eys of all who do not understand the teaching of Jesus Christ, now more than before with the Hebrews (not all of them.)

Hebrews 7:19 For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.

Galatians 3:2-3
[SUP]2 [/SUP]This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

2 Corinthians 3:6-8
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

Galatians 3:24-25
[SUP]24 [/SUP]Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
[SUP]25 [/SUP]But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.



Galatians 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

Romans 8:1-2
​

1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.


These would be contradictions if you tried to follow the Gospel and Moses at the same time.
​

​

 

[gb9]

Once again

1. Deflecting (blame shift)
2. puffing self up (i did no wrong, your wrong)
3. refusal to repent when shown he is wrong

And he wonders why people say he does not reflect christ at all.

he( Jamie ) says a late last year that " real, true ,mature Believers do not need to read Paul's letters, they were for Churches with problems , and if you do not have these problems , you do not need to read them" ( paraphrase ).

then he would deny saying it, chastise me for telling him he said it.

then I went back and found his exact quote, posted it , then he says " o.k., I said it, what is the problem ? "

which would have started the whole process over again. so, I bailed. maybe others should too??

 

[eternally-gratefull]

he( Jamie ) says a late last year that " real, true ,mature Believers do not need to read Paul's letters, they were for Churches with problems , and if you do not have these problems , you do not need to read them" ( paraphrase ).

then he would deny saying it, chastise me for telling him he said it.

then I went back and found his exact quote, posted it , then he says " o.k., I said it, what is the problem ? "

which would have started the whole process over again. so, I bailed. maybe others should too??

He prety much proves it was over and over, if people would just stop giving him an audience we would not need to hold him accountable, but as long as people continue to enable him, and he continues to slander others over and over like he has been doing for as long as i can remember, i will continue to expose it

 

[JaumeJ]

Child where did you find it? All I see is some words you say I said with quotation marks placed on them.

Now that I do think......Paul teaches there is no other gospel but that of Jesus Christ. If any man teaches another gospel let him be accursed. Paul is saying the Gosple of Jesus Christ is the only Gospel, so what are you saying about Paul being so necessary when we are given the gift to fulfill the prophecy the we will be taught by God. Paul is not God, and h is the first to say we belong to Jesus Christ and not to Paul

You people have made this into somethng it is not..........a lie.....what does that make of yo?

he( Jamie ) says a late last year that " real, true ,mature Believers do not need to read Paul's letters, they were for Churches with problems , and if you do not have these problems , you do not need to read them" ( paraphrase ).

then he would deny saying it, chastise me for telling him he said it.

then I went back and found his exact quote, posted it , then he says " o.k., I said it, what is the problem ? "

which would have started the whole process over again. so, I bailed. maybe others should too??

 

[JaumeJ]

Bring it up again, it is a pathetic argument and I believe deep down or right at the surfaace you know it is.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Bring it up again, it is a pathetic argument and I believe deep down or right at the surfaace you know it is.

Its only pathetic if it is not true

keep doing it, it will continue to be brought up.