Do We Have To Keep The Law?

[eternally-gratefull]

thing is, people know, even those who do not believe, they are not to kill etc

but gossip etc is so often overlooked and it is alive and well right here at CC

I don't know what they think talking about a person to their face behind their back is

there is one person in particular who does this every thread they post in. this one is no exception

So it is wrong to overlook gossip

but perfectly ok to overlook people slandering others with prety much every word they say, and even when they are shown by their wn words to be lieing, thats perfectly fine

Wow, so eone has lost all line of reasoning.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When any in the forums refuse to hear the words of Jesus Christ I must eventually treat them as pagans, nonbelievers.

So your saying we are free to treat you this way?

I would rather you repent of your sins, and come to christ that call you names, name calling never helped anyone.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

we hear the words of Jesus. we see your words. we see you say them, then when asked about your words, you dance and dodge and accuse and whine.

so, if you are not prepared in a OPEN DISCUSSION FOURM, to answer questions about THINGS YOU POST, then maybe you should think deeply about some things.

Good luck getting him to admit he did anything wrong.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

.....riiiiiight


the seed has been planted

you are replying in platitudes

I have disagreed with studyman often enough

yet, in your translation of what I say I somehow am just like him or he with me

I agree with what the Bible simplys states

can you express in YOUR words what you think the commandments of Jesus really mean and how we keep them?

or are you of the persuasion that we don't have to listen to Jesus because He is a lawkeeper?

seems like talking to someone who will believe whatever they feel like when they feel like and speak from both sides of their mouth isnt going to be fruitful

yet you do it and are doing it right now, but that is what happens when a person enjoins an individual with personal comments and vere from the op

 

[7seasrekeyed]

again, confusing fruit, works and obedience results in misapprehension and very bad comprehension with regards to the words of Jesus

Jesus fulfilled all the obligations of the law

we cannot even if we want to

when we obey Christ, is this a work? of course not! the Bible describes what the works of those who are TRUE believers do

the Bible describes what fruit actually is...that would be changing on the inside and exhibiting the character of Christ

obedience is necessary for all of the above

good thing it is not a 4 letter word like fruit or work

seriously, why is this so difficult for some to understand?

 

[7seasrekeyed]

if you, whoever you are, cannot do anything but personally mock or twist what is being said, then maybe you actually have nothing to offer

people who do that, are defending themselves...NOT scripture

 

[Studyman]

Romans 5
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


________

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work

________




to answer your question

we are saved (and justified) by grace through faith

You pretty much ignored my post which was talking about what the "Works of the Law" Paul is speaking to.

"Through Faith" means something doesn't it? didn't Abraham love and trust God enough to follow His instructions? Isn't that our example of Faith?

You didn't answer my question. Can a man be justified apart from this Law? "thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and with all your might and with all your soul"?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

you are replying in platitudes

I have disagreed with studyman often enough

yet, in your translation of what I say I somehow am just like him or he with me

nope
just pointed out you seemed to agree with his strawman based on your hypocritical statement

I agree with what the Bible simplys states

doesnt seem like it to me

can you express in YOUR words what you think the commandments of Jesus really mean and how we keep them?

That we love God above all

and we love our neighbors as ourself

which you have failed in this thread through your false accusations and snarky comments (as have i through my own lack of patience and snappy comments)

or are you of the persuasion that we don't have to listen to Jesus because He is a lawkeeper?

ridiculous straw man again

no i dont believe how well we perform earns
or maintains salvation
but yes i do believe we have to keep His commandments in order to be fruitful children

yet you do it and are doing it right now, but that is what happens when a person enjoins an individual with personal comments and vere from the op

false accusation


i have actually do believe what the bible clearly states

Romans 5
5 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

3 And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience;

4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope:

5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.

7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.

8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement.

12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.

15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.

17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)

18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.


________

Ephesians 2:8 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God:

Philippians 3:9 - And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

John 1:12 - But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name

Romans 11:6 - And if by grace, then [is it] no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if [it be] of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work

________




to answer your question

we are saved (and justified) by grace through faith

hebrews 10


35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.

36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise.

37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry.

38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.
_____________


john 6


28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

___________


1 John 2:19
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

Matthew Chapter 13
►


1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.




do i believe those who are rooted in Christ will produce fruit through Him working in us?

yes


but you seem to think all produce 100

none produce 30


and to studyman
this applies to you

vv

the principal youre missing

vvvvv

matthew 19

16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

_________

Jesus was telling this man how to be perfect

this man believed his works regarding the commandments were perfect (including loving his neighbor as himself)

Jesus is saying ohhhhh is that so?

then give up all your things and follow me
(to expose where this mans heart really was.... it is not evil to have possessions)


22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.

____________



again same principal

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?

26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
(again a man looking to be justified by works)
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
(this man believes he actually does this fully)
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.
(Jesus says knowing this man is self righteous yaaa thats all you need then if you are correct)
29 But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour?
(as if he truely does this knowing Jesus does not believe him asks ohhh who is my neighbor maybe i am wrong mockingly)


30 And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.

31 And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side.

32 And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side.

33 But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him,

34 And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

35 And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee.

36 Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves?

37 And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

____________


that amount of money
as well as offering for excess was .... a lot of money at that time....

this exposes that man who believed he was doing these things is actually wrong......

he does not love his enemy as himself as he ought to in order to be perfect

let alone his literal neighbor....
people try to take and mix up

reproof

instruction for righteousness

the law

and works

and try to say a man needs more than grace and faith to be saved (which isnt true)

 

[ljs]

You all who are of the OSAS should fear the Word of the Lord when it is necessary.

Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

And what was that Gospel that Paul preached Jaume ??
1st Corinthians 15 1-4 , if you preach anything other than , added to etc etc , you are accursed ( which you do )

You realize that Paul was given direct revelation from Christ for the church dont you ?
So if you disobey Pauls words , then your disobeying Jesus

 

[7seasrekeyed]

nope
just pointed out you seemed to agree with his strawman based on your hypocritical statement




doesnt seem like it to me



That we love God above all

and we love our neighbors as ourself

which you have failed in this thread through your false accusations and snarky comments (as have i through my own lack of patience and snappy comments)


ridiculous straw man again

no i dont believe how well we perform earns
or maintains salvation
but yes i do believe we have to keep His commandments in order to be fruitful children




false accusation


i have actually do believe what the bible clearly states








Matthew Chapter 13
►


1 The same day went Jesus out of the house, and sat by the sea side.

2 And great multitudes were gathered together unto him, so that he went into a ship, and sat; and the whole multitude stood on the shore.

3 And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow;

4 And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up:

5 Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth:

6 And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away.

7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them:

8 But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold.




do i believe those who are rooted in Christ will produce fruit through Him working in us?

yes


but you seem to think all produce 100

none produce 30


and to studyman
this applies to you

vv

again, nothing of any value here

I am not even saying what you imply

you seem to have dug a deep rut in the road and can't climb out

I have never once said someone is going to loose their salvation and I am not giving my opinion on that

the entire time I have been posting about obedience

and that, only to Jesus

however this mashup you have come up with, gives no acknowledgement of that but just continues punching blindly in all directions

very nice how you seem to enjoy quoting yourself as much as you do

I don't read reams of scripture in posts. pasting reams of scripture does not indicate a person understands what it is they are pasting in

you say you obey the commandments

well if you do, what is the gripe here?

try obeying Jesus commandments. you will find it is harder to love as Jesus commands we should than it is to stop yourself from killing your neighbor

 

[JaumeJ]

Obviously you are just after me personally or you would already know just how many times I have posed in many threads but let us stick to this one, and that many times, that Paul teaches the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

Now what in the blazes is your beef with me now? Are you afraid I may pass on the words of Jesus christ? I do and I will, so wath the accusitive posting tome and to all who believe Jesus Christ.

The chiip you came in with is obvious......stay away unless you can muster up the love of God given you..

And what was that Gospel that Paul preached Jaume ??
1st Corinthians 15 1-4 , if you preach anything other than , added to etc etc , you are accursed ( which you do )

You realize that Paul was given direct revelation from Christ for the church dont you ?
So if you disobey Pauls words , then your disobeying Jesus

 

[7seasrekeyed]

And what was that Gospel that Paul preached Jaume ??
1st Corinthians 15 1-4 , if you preach anything other than , added to etc etc , you are accursed ( which you do )

You realize that Paul was given direct revelation from Christ for the church dont you ?
So if you disobey Pauls words , then your disobeying Jesus

right

ans what direct revelation from Christ do we have?

what did Jesus command?

Paul obeyed Jesus. do you?

 

[JaumeJ]

You know what, you are a very sad person when it comes to addressing me, and most likely many others, so I am compelled to put you with pagans.

And what was that Gospel that Paul preached Jaume ??
1st Corinthians 15 1-4 , if you preach anything other than , added to etc etc , you are accursed ( which you do )

You realize that Paul was given direct revelation from Christ for the church dont you ?
So if you disobey Pauls words , then your disobeying Jesus

 

[7seasrekeyed]

You pretty much ignored my post which was talking about what the "Works of the Law" Paul is speaking to.

"Through Faith" means something doesn't it? didn't Abraham love and trust God enough to follow His instructions? Isn't that our example of Faith?

You didn't answer my question. Can a man be justified apart from this Law? "thou shall Love the Lord thy God with all your heart and with all your might and with all your soul"?

he didn't answer me either

and by the way, I certainly do not disagree with you all the time

I prefer to not talk about loosing salvation (I think an argument can be made in either direction but not going to make one because of the confusing posts concerning the commandments of Jesus and the strawman arguments they seem to engender)

I honestly see confusing works, fruit and obedience as one of the major problems the OSAS crowd has in that they will pretty consistently come back with 'no one said we can continue to sin'

really, the ONLY answer to that quip, is 'no one said you said that'

it really becomes a little brother to the OSAS 3000 thread

 

[Studyman]

And what was that Gospel that Paul preached Jaume ??
1st Corinthians 15 1-4 , if you preach anything other than , added to etc etc , you are accursed ( which you do )

You realize that Paul was given direct revelation from Christ for the church dont you ?
So if you disobey Pauls words , then your disobeying Jesus

I might remind you that the Spirit didn't reveal anything to Paul other than that which was written in the Law and Prophets, at least according to him.


Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy,(Remember, the Jews had corrupted God's Word) so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

And again;

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

So according to Paul he is only forwarding the teaching of the Law and Prophets he calls the Gospel of Christ in Romans 1.

To say he taught different than the Word which became Flesh is in direct conflict to his own words.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

i actually did answer both of you

you can ignore scripture till youre blue in the face

and continue to reply with strawmen
false accusations
out of context verses

but at the end of the day

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

 

[ljs]

You know what, you are a very sad person when it comes to addressing me, and most likely many others, so I am compelled to put you with pagans.

HUH ?

what was sad about how I addressed you ? it was the truth !

I just called you out on what you teach , I have nothing against you , but I will not let false teaching go unanswered !
Be very careful calling a blood bought , spirit indwelt believer a pagan !

 

[JaumeJ]

By your post you are probably already aware that many believe Paul was privy to truth not yet revealed to the Twelve Apostles, that Paul had new good news for all. Paul never made this claim,yet people , not all of course, put this o him.
There are people who believe that Paul is the Master of the converts to Jesus Christ, by master I mean the teacher, and this is a great apostasy.

I might remind you that the Spirit didn't reveal anything to Paul other than that which was written in the Law and Prophets, at least according to him.


Acts 24:14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy,(Remember, the Jews had corrupted God's Word) so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

And again;

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:
20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

So according to Paul he is only forwarding the teaching of the Law and Prophets he calls the Gospel of Christ in Romans 1.

To say he taught different than the Word which became Flesh is in direct conflict to his own words.

 

[7seasrekeyed]

i actually did answer both of you

you can ignore scripture till youre blue in the face

and continue to reply with strawmen
false accusations
out of context verses

but at the end of the day

John 5:24 - Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life

no you did not

you just repeated what is always said by those who want to limit their own understanding to the comfortable zone of OSAS

again, I never mentioned salvation

this is my question to you:

can you express in YOUR words what you think the commandments of Jesus really mean and how we keep them?

I don't care if you answer or not, but that is what I have been posting about

not about salvation

not about what you think I said

not about the law

not about whether or not we keep the law

not about trying to get likes from others or reps from others...mind you, thanks to those who gave them...not complaining

so answer or not, but I am clever enough to know a dodge when I see one

 

[7seasrekeyed]

HUH ?

what was sad about how I addressed you ? it was the truth !

I just called you out on what you teach , I have nothing against you , but I will not let false teaching go unanswered !
Be very careful calling a blood bought , spirit indwelt believer a pagan !

so then you have nothing against being called out for the same reason?

well good then!

do the words of Paul supercede Jesus?

no?

then we had better jolly well keep the commandments of Jesus

yes? no?

what are they and how do we fulfill them?

good on yah that you will not let false teaching go...but first hang onto TRUE teaching...begin and end with Jesus