Do We Have To Keep The Law?

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what does a passage whcih says if i see a person commit a sin, and he is still alive have to do with what I said?

of course there is sin which does not lead to death, if not, we would all be dead.
Why would John be telling us to not pray for a person who is sinning so as to physically die?

Obviously, he's talking about the hardened Christ rejector. They have chosen their path. Let them walk it. No prayer is going to rescue the person whom God himself will not rescue. Think Jeremiah and his ministry.



could have fooled me..
Yes, you are fooled. You're simply not seeing what he's saying.

I can see what he's saying. There really is a difference in the reasons a person sins.
 
See thats your problem, you look to continue commands, not at the real issue,

you still do not know what sin is. It is not just breaking commands, it goes far far deeper than that. I can obey commands and still be a sinner


this is the great deception . thinking that sin is just a thou shalt not and thou shalt. if they would open up their hearts and minds they would see how deep and evil sin is, and how the only hope we have of getting into the kingdom is faith and trust in a perfect sinless Savior, and faith and TRUST in Him.
 
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...the only hope we have of getting into the kingdom is faith and trust in a perfect sinless Savior, and faith and TRUST in Him.
Correct, and people who do that then obey the commands of God, because that's what they were created to do-Ephesians 2:10.

That's why people who don't obey the commands of God don't enter the kingdom of God. They aren't new creations in Christ, through faith in Christ, created to do good works, and so they continue on in their old unsaved, unchanged lives. But the church is sure they are saved because they say with their mouth that they trust in Christ.....and because they get involved in church ministries when they're not at home living immoral lives.
 
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So, you believe we have to remain Holy or keep the law, but if we not, or fall, we have to repent, and back to keep the law, am I correct?

No, that's not correct. We have to remain holy by keeping the commandments of Jesus. If we stumble we get cleansed and continue keeping the faith. Rinse and repeat if/when necessary.
 
Correct, and people who do that then obey the commands of God, because that's what they were created to do-Ephesians 2:10.

That's why people who don't obey the commands of God don't enter the kingdom of God. They aren't new creations in Christ, through faith in Christ, created to do good works, and so they continue on in their old unsaved, unchanged lives. But the church is sure they are saved because they say with their mouth that they trust in Christ.

sin is more than keeping or not keeping a command. sin is knowing to do good and not doing so. sin is defined as missing the mark, falling short of a standard.

Sermon on the Mount- do you uphold the things that Christ 100% crystal clear laid out every hour of every day?
 
Why would John be telling us to not pray for a person who is sinning so as to physically die?

Obviously, he's talking about the hardened Christ rejector. They have chosen their path. Let them walk it. No prayer is going to rescue the person whom God himself will not rescue. Think Jeremiah and his ministry.

ok you believe that, what would john be telling us we can know if a person sinned a sin leading to,death if we could not physically see it? Sometimes common sense mut be used,


Yes, you are fooled. You're simply not seeing what he's saying.

I can see what he's saying. There really is a difference in the reasons a person sins.

yes i see what he and you are saying, your excusing sin, deny it all you want.

You will never see me excuse any sin, no matter what reason i do it, i sinned against God, period
 
You believe this because you have been convinced that the Pharisees were following God's Laws. You get this false preaching from man, many on this very forum.

But Jesus never said they were following God's Commandments, or the Law of Moses, He said they were liars, children of satan, and that they taught for doctrines the Commandments of man, not of God.

They killed Stephen for telling them this truth. Yet you take their word over Jesus in Acts.

Why??? I never could understand how you and others could do this. They "said" they were following the Law of Moses, but Jesus said over and over that they were not.

"Enslave" them to what? The Word which became Flesh, or the doctrines and traditions of the Pharisees which taught for doctrines the commandments of men.

"Enslave" them to what? Their version of the Levitical Priesthood sacrificial "Works of the Law" for remission of sins that the Jews were still pushing.

This is what the Jews were pushing on the Galatians. Not "Love the Lord thy God, and Love thy neighbor as the Word which became Flesh taught in Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy.

Your whole doctrine is built on the assumption that anytime the law of Moses is mentioned in regards to the pharisees it means their oral tradition. That's a very shaky foundation to be standing on.
 
Sermon on the Mount- do you uphold the things that Christ 100% crystal clear laid out every hour of every day?
No. (Even if I did I would never dare say so in this forum. I would be eaten alive, provoked to sin by incessant insults, then banned, then gloated over.).


The difference between me and an unbeliever, or a believer living in contempt of the free gift is I fail because of weakness, ignorance, and occasionally sheer stupidity and foolishness, not because I don't believe in and trust Christ. You don't think there's a difference between my sin and their sin? If not, then you condemn yourself with the unbelievers. I don't think you want to do that. The reason we sin makes all the difference.
 
this is the great deception . thinking that sin is just a thou shalt not and thou shalt. if they would open up their hearts and minds they would see how deep and evil sin is, and how the only hope we have of getting into the kingdom is faith and trust in a perfect sinless Savior, and faith and TRUST in Him.
Jesus made it clear, 2 commands encompass ALL the law and prophets.

want to know when you sin, see when you failed.to live be God or your neighbor, thats sin, if you.put self above anylne, you have sinned,you do not need laws.to tell you this..
 
No. Unbelievers do not keep the commands of God. John said so. It's that simple.

The believer is signified by his obedience to the commands of God, but you are insisting that unbelievers are to. There is no truth to that at all.

so the gentiles who kept the law by nature were believers?

Yeah, keep,thinking that
 
Again, thanks for proving me right.

in your own words.


As long as i do this, i am ok (i can basically sin all i want)

if i repnt i am ok, if not the am doomed.


Repent is the key here EG and is more than just a word.

Luke 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5
I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

This is the difference EG. The very word repent means to change. "He that steals, let him steal no more". That is repentance.

The Preachers of Christ's time were practicing sin as were those in Matt. 7. They had convinced themselves that they didn't need repentance. They were all set. "Peace, Peace, when there was no peace".

And when Jesus told them, showed them in their own Scriptures where they were in sin, they didn't believe Him, nor the Word's of the God they claimed to follow. Since they had created their own "righteousness" they didn't need to submit to the righteousness of God.

No repentance, no forgiveness. At least according to the Bible. But those who truly Love God and have denied themselves, taken up their cross, and are following HIM, (Not religious traditions of man) these are repentant. When they fall they get back up and continue towards the High Calling of God. As Paul teaches.

12 Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, (Past sin) and reaching forth unto those things which are before, (righteous perfection)
14I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

So then if I repent, (change) I am OK. But if I don't repent (Continue in known sin) I am doomed.

You don't believe this?


again james said if i break one command i am guilty period.

all sin causes death, god coes not forgive certain sins and not others, thats a religious view which wreeks of phariseeism,

Unrepentant sin (Transgression of God's Commandments) is not forgiven. The Mainstream Preachers of Christ's time are a perfect example of this.

Sin that is repented of is forgiven. This is the Gospel of Christ. As Paul learned from the Vision Jesus gave Him.

Acts 26:19 Whereupon, O king Agrippa, I was not disobedient unto the heavenly vision:

20 But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should (ALL) repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

22 Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come:

23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles. (Same light)

So unless you can show me where unrepentant sin is forgiven, I am going to continue to trust the Word which became Flesh on this matter.



God can Not look at sin period, you think your sin does not stink you do not know God very well.

Sin that is gone does not stink, it is gone. If the Word which became Flesh takes it away, it is gone. He says I must first "Repent", then turn to God, (Not religious traditions of man) then "Bring Work's worthy of repentance". (There is that change repentance means.)

The "turning to God" part is what Jesus spoke of in John 14.

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

This is why Zechariahs knew Jesus and the Pharisees didn't. This is why Zechariahs sin was forgiven, and the Pharisees sins were not.

23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

This is how Zechariahs was able to "walk in His Commandments" and the Pharisees were not.

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

when Zechariahs knew God, he honored him with respect and obedience, the Pharisees did not honor Him with respect and obedience.

How is this understanding Flawed.
 
Just as Jesus teaches against certain laws in His sermon on the mount so He teaches how the law is to be understood. Otherwise He would not have defended the woman caught in adultery with many witnesses from being stoned, according to law.

Yet, He is considered to have obeyed the law perfectly. Why is this? It is bcause He knows how the law is to be applied....one of the three main principles included in its application is mercy.........I have mercy even if I sin, but I do my uitmost not to sin... Meanwhile God is perfecting me, the work He began when I repented of this age.

The Lord our God is perfect therefore we will be perfect.........is this a command or a promise. I know, and it is certain you do too.
 
Again, thanks for proving me right.

in your own words.




Repent is the key here EG and is more than just a word.

yep

sin, repent
sin repent
sin repent

i can sin all i want. All i have to do is repent and say i am sorry.

 
Just as Jesus teaches against certain laws in His sermon on the mount so He teaches how the law is to be understood. Otherwise He would not have defended the woman caught in adultery with many witnesses from being stoned, according to law.

Yet, He is considered to have obeyed the law perfectly. Why is this? It is bcause He knows how the law is to be applied....one of the three main principles included in its application is mercy.........I have mercy even if I sin, but I do my uitmost not to sin... Meanwhile God is perfecting me, the work He began when I repented of this age.

The Lord our God is perfect therefore we will be perfect.........is this a command or a promise. I know, and it is certain you do too.


No jesus taught us the law was not good enough, the law says but i say...
 
The law. If the Jews could have followed the law then the rest of us would be lost. PTL for His gift of Jesus. Without His love and blood, death would not have been defeated!
Although we follow Jesus Christ who came not to abolish the law but to fulfill the law and gave us the command to love one another and love Him...the laws are still good for us. They show us that we are sinners in need of our Savior.
 
ok you believe that, what would john be telling us we can know if a person sinned a sin leading to,death if we could not physically see it? Sometimes common sense mut be used,
They will not be living for Christ. That is, morally speaking. They may well still be going to church and even serving in the church, even boasting about the grace of God. But they will not be living sanctified, set apart personal lives for God.



yes i see what he and you are saying, your excusing sin, deny it all you want.
The only sin that gets excused is the sin that Christ forgives. The person living in sin because of contempt for the free gift does not have that forgiveness, even if they think they have it.




You will never see me excuse any sin, no matter what reason i do it, i sinned against God, period
There are many who do.
It usually manifests in an 'it's not really sin', or 'it can't lose my salvation' argument.