No Outward Act Can Save You

[mailmandan]

"Can such a faith save him?"

Just to believe that Jesus is Lord/Christ does not save all believers.

It saves only specific believiers, according to some other conditions (election, works, repentance, keeping the faith till death, gift of the Holy Spirit...)

Even miracles in Jesus´s name are useless regardings person´s salvation, when there is a disobedience, as Jesus said.

Such a faith mentioned in James 2:14 is an empty profession of faith/dead faith (evidenced by a lack of works) and that is why it can't save them. Authentic faith is rooted in Christ and results in evidential works. Even the demons believe that Jesus is the Lord, but they do not trust in Jesus Christ for salvation and neither do unbelievers.

Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable in receiving salvation. Genuine believers have authentic faith, have already repented, are of the elect, have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, keep the faith till death and show their faith by their works.

 

[trofimus]

Such a faith mentioned in James 2:14 is an empty profession of faith/dead faith (evidenced by a lack of works) and that is why it can't save them. Authentic faith is rooted in Christ and results in evidential works. Even the demons believe that Jesus is the Lord, but they do not trust in Jesus Christ for salvation and neither do unbelievers.

Repentance and faith are two sides to the same coin and are inseparable in receiving salvation. Genuine believers have authentic faith, have already repented, are of the elect, have received the gift of the Holy Spirit, keep the faith till death and show their faith by their works.

Well, we are in agreement then that one verse from the Bible about salvation is not enough. There are other things we must take into consideration regarding salvation, so that we are sure that such faith is not just "empty profession".

 

[DJ2]

But what if...now here me out. But what if God had commanded a outward action as the point/moment of salvation?

Would it then be true that a outward act be needed for salvation?

Remember now, if God commanded it to be so.

 

[trofimus]

But what if...now here me out. But what if God had commanded a outward action as the point/moment of salvation?

Would it then be true that a outward act be needed for salvation?

Remember now, if God commanded it to be so.

I think there is a problem with our view of time.

While we live/move through spacetime, God sees it all at once, as one creation, beginning and end.

For God, tomorrow´s sin or work of mine is already done.

 

[wanderer6059]

But what if...now here me out. But what if God had commanded a outward action as the point/moment of salvation?

Would it then be true that a outward act be needed for salvation?

Remember now, if God commanded it to be so.

any outward action is only a reaction to what has already happened inwardly. the start is always in the spirit.

The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; A broken and a contrite heart. what He desires more is from the heart that is mercy and covenant faithfulness.

 

[Depleted]

water baptized, works, the law, sacraments, nothing you can do in your own power can save you or even help your salvation. if there is anything you do it is the heart state you have and speaking.

there is only one thing that saves, that is to believe that Jesus was and is the Christ, and to confess Him as Lord. it is by Grace you are saved through faith.

Isn't that what DC said 3134 pages ago on his Not-Works thread?

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

If it's not faith in Christ and what He did for us at the Cross, then it's faith that God will not recognize. Jesus judges it as work of iniquity (Matthew 7:21-23). The apostle says, "Christ shall profit you nothing" (Gal. 5:2). He says, "Christ is become of no effect unto you" (Gal. 5:4). ​

 

[RickyZ]

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[Honey_Bee]

This is a great thread. We are here for Christian discussion. I like thoughts on self examination towards things we believe. When it comes to soul salvation, the original post it right, there is nothing we can do to "add" to the work of Christ. Our assurance is in believing the testimony of God about His Son by our gospel call. We do not maintain the salvation of our soul by fleshly responses/religious practices, that is a mindset that has fallen from grace.

Faith without works is dead, yes... but, we are "saved by grace", we "stand" by faith in grace, this is our doctrine for our ministry, the "ministry of reconciliation". As saved persons, we learn the doctrines of God for the renewing of our minds as we walk with this body of death, we are not to mind the flesh, the flesh can never be cleaned up or acceptable to God, because the flesh is dead to God, we need to learn the doctrines for our house, this is the will of God for our lives.

Today, in the dispensation of the grace of God toward all men, we are the circumcision made without hands, baptized by the Spirit, quickened by the faith and operation of God. We have a gospel call, and we have a seal, we have doctrines to build up our inner man according to the purposes of God in Christ for the vocation of the "one new man"

 

[seed_time_harvest]

water baptized, works, the law, sacraments, nothing you can do in your own power can save you or even help your salvation. if there is anything you do it is the heart state you have and speaking.

there is only one thing that saves, that is to believe that Jesus was and is the Christ, and to confess Him as Lord. it is by Grace you are saved through faith.

Thats a starting point, but not a complete view.

""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Mt 7:21

Although we should renew our minds after salvation called conditional sanctification,the OP Is talking about salvation and the will of the FATHER IS be perfect the way that HE Is perfect and that can only be done by Grace through faith.

 

[Tina2018]

water baptized, works, the law, sacraments, nothing you can do in your own power can save you or even help your salvation. if there is anything you do it is the heart state you have and speaking.

there is only one thing that saves, that is to believe that Jesus was and is the Christ, and to confess Him as Lord. it is by Grace you are saved through faith.

But is there an outward act that can exclude you?
Thats what i wonder

 

[seed_time_harvest]

I agree, yet "faith without works is dead" does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works. That's like saying a tree is dead until it produces fruit. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If someone says-claims he has faith but lacks resulting evidential works, (James 2:14) then he has an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

That's EXACTLY RIGHT.

 

[Ralph-]

But is there an outward act that can exclude you?
Thats what i wonder

Yes.

Any sinful act that is the result of UNBELIEF.

 

[seed_time_harvest]

one way i have seen it is faith is inactive without works. the Greek here for dead is not able to respond to impulses, or perform functions, unable, ineffective, dead, powerless.

my one question would be then if we are saves by grace, through faith.
​if faith is inactive, or we can say idle are we still saved?

Salvation Is by Grace through faith and If a person has been saved by Grace through faith their faith will be active.

Titus 2:11-13
King James Version(KJV)


11.) For the grace of GOD that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,

12.) Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and GODly, in this present world;

13) Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great GOD and our Saviour JESUS CHRIST.

 

[John146]

Thats a starting point, but not a complete view.

""Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."
Mt 7:21

Thankfully, Jesus Christ is the only one who always did the will of the Father, therefore, getting into Christ is the one and only answer. Believing upon the gospel of Jesus Christ places one into His body.

 

[Shamah]

Salvation is from the Most High, as soon as one sins a sin that deserves death they have voided their chance, if we accept the Messiah we are wiped clean of this transgression. However none of this is is a pass to ignore or not do His will, as He has said:

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 12:48, “He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 – poimén)."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.” [/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 14:23-24, “[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהושע [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

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[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]John 12:25-26, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone. But if it dies, it bears much fruit. He who loves his life shall lose it, and he who hates his life in this world shall preserve it for everlasting life." Whoever serves me must follow me; and where I am, my servant also will be. My Father will honor the one who serves me.”[/FONT]





[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Mat 25:31-46, “And when the Son of Aḏam comes in His esteem, and all the set-apart messengers with Him, then He shall sit on the throne of His esteem. And all the nations shall be gathered before Him, and He shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates his sheep from the goats. And He shall set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left. Then the Sovereign shall say to those on His right hand, ‘Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the reign prepared for you from the foundation of the world for I was hungry and you gave Me food, I was thirsty and you gave Me drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you visited Me, I was in prison and you came to Me. Then the righteous shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry and we fed You, or thirsty and gave You to drink? And when did we see You a stranger and took You in, or naked and clothed You? And when did we see You sick, or in prison, and we came to You? And the Sovereign shall answer and say to them, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did it to one of the least of these My brothers, you did it to Me. He shall then also say to those on the left hand, ‘Go away from Me, accursed ones, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his messengers for I was hungry and you gave Me no food, I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink, I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, was naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me. Then they also shall answer Him, saying, ‘Master, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not serve You? Then He shall answer them, saying, ‘Truly, I say to you, in so far as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into everlasting life.”[/FONT]

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[Studyman]

water baptized, works, the law, sacraments, nothing you can do in your own power can save you or even help your salvation. if there is anything you do it is the heart state you have and speaking.

there is only one thing that saves, that is to believe that Jesus was and is the Christ, and to confess Him as Lord. it is by Grace you are saved through faith.

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

 

[Honey_Bee]

But is there an outward act that can exclude you?
Thats what i wonder

No, because when we believe the gospel of our salvation, we are re-gened as a new creature. This is our doctrine, for the church the body of Christ.

Saved by grace through faith, is speaking of the "faith of Christ", the righteousness of God which is by faith, not of ourselves.

 

[Shamah]

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Luke 14:26 If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.
27 And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.

33 So likewise, whosoever he be of you that forsaketh not all that he hath, he cannot be my disciple.

Wonderful and self reflecting verses.

but I personally don't like the translation "

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

I believe love less is accurate to the greek word and context, JMO.

none the less praiseYah may we seek His will! and take heed to the words of His Sent One

 

[trofimus]

Thankfully, Jesus Christ is the only one who always did the will of the Father, therefore, getting into Christ is the one and only answer. Believing upon the gospel of Jesus Christ places one into His body.

While what you say is true, it does not explain why the doers of miracles in His name are not saved. Jesus said thats because they do not do the will of the Father.