Loss of salvation.
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Hi CS1
Sorry ole boy I can't agree with you on this one. Some christians depart from the faith, & there's scriptural proof for it.
It is absolutely true that God promises to keep us from falling, but that's God keeping His side of the covenant to the faithful. He will keep us if we stay with Him. But He never forces us to stay.
We all know people who have fallen away from the Christian faith. These are people who at one time made a profession of faith in Christ. They may have joined a Bible-believing church. I know some who were seminary graduates, active in ministry. But either they drifted from the Lord or deliberately turned away. They may have become ensnared in a cult or entangled by worldly values or have fallen into moral problems. But they are no longer living as Christians.
If you think such a thing could never happen to you, take heed lest you fall! We’re all vulnerable and we are at war with a cunning, deceptive enemy. We need to understand how not to fall away. Paul gives us an answer in 1 Timothy 4:1-5. It is not a complete answer, of course. A complete answer would entail all the New Testament teaching on the spiritual life. But it is nonetheless a solid answer that will help us be on guard so that we do not fall away.
Paul refers to an explicit prophecy by the Holy Spirit that in later times some will fall away from the faith. He may be referring to Jesus’ prediction concerning the apostasy during the end times (Mark 13:22), or to other prophecies Paul made (2 Thess. 2:1-12; Acts 20:29). Or Paul may have received a new revelation from the Holy Spirit on this matter as he wrote this letter. “Later times” refers to the entire church age; but there will be a major apostasy just before the Lord’s return (2 Thess. 2:1-3). Apparently, some in Ephesus were already turning away from the faith. Paul is telling Timothy these things so that he will be on guard as the problems grow worse. He is saying that ...
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-12-how-not-fall-away-1-timothy-41-5
Sorry ole boy I can't agree with you on this one. Some christians depart from the faith, & there's scriptural proof for it.
It is absolutely true that God promises to keep us from falling, but that's God keeping His side of the covenant to the faithful. He will keep us if we stay with Him. But He never forces us to stay.
We all know people who have fallen away from the Christian faith. These are people who at one time made a profession of faith in Christ. They may have joined a Bible-believing church. I know some who were seminary graduates, active in ministry. But either they drifted from the Lord or deliberately turned away. They may have become ensnared in a cult or entangled by worldly values or have fallen into moral problems. But they are no longer living as Christians.
If you think such a thing could never happen to you, take heed lest you fall! We’re all vulnerable and we are at war with a cunning, deceptive enemy. We need to understand how not to fall away. Paul gives us an answer in 1 Timothy 4:1-5. It is not a complete answer, of course. A complete answer would entail all the New Testament teaching on the spiritual life. But it is nonetheless a solid answer that will help us be on guard so that we do not fall away.
Paul refers to an explicit prophecy by the Holy Spirit that in later times some will fall away from the faith. He may be referring to Jesus’ prediction concerning the apostasy during the end times (Mark 13:22), or to other prophecies Paul made (2 Thess. 2:1-12; Acts 20:29). Or Paul may have received a new revelation from the Holy Spirit on this matter as he wrote this letter. “Later times” refers to the entire church age; but there will be a major apostasy just before the Lord’s return (2 Thess. 2:1-3). Apparently, some in Ephesus were already turning away from the faith. Paul is telling Timothy these things so that he will be on guard as the problems grow worse. He is saying that ...
https://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-12-how-not-fall-away-1-timothy-41-5
In verse 23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.
Lack of faith, believing that one is saved by their faith in God because that is what they see written in the scriptures. Seeing that faith comes by hearing; and hope that is seen is not hope.
For he that comes to God must believe he is and that he is a rewarder to them that diligently seek him.
Lack of faith, believing that one is saved by their faith in God because that is what they see written in the scriptures. Seeing that faith comes by hearing; and hope that is seen is not hope.
For he that comes to God must believe he is and that he is a rewarder to them that diligently seek him.
R
When God turns you over to your choice to go back to unbelief.
People stop believing for the reasons Jesus said they do--temptation, affliction, and persecution.
And when you understand that 'belief' is 'trusting' you can see what is happening when a person returns to unbelief--they stop relying and trusting in Christ for justification, and for the reasons listed above. You do this by either choosing to simply stop trusting him, or through treating the Holy Spirit that sanctified you with contempt by purposely and willfully returning to your old life in a careless and unconcerned and deliberate 'in your face' rejection of Christ.
Ultimately, yes, you would know.
You'd know it because they no longer have the power of God to live righteously and would by default return to their old unrighteous life....only worse this time around.
People stop believing for the reasons Jesus said they do--temptation, affliction, and persecution.
And when you understand that 'belief' is 'trusting' you can see what is happening when a person returns to unbelief--they stop relying and trusting in Christ for justification, and for the reasons listed above. You do this by either choosing to simply stop trusting him, or through treating the Holy Spirit that sanctified you with contempt by purposely and willfully returning to your old life in a careless and unconcerned and deliberate 'in your face' rejection of Christ.
Ultimately, yes, you would know.
You'd know it because they no longer have the power of God to live righteously and would by default return to their old unrighteous life....only worse this time around.
R
Yes.
He who BELIEVES presently has everlasting life, not the person who has stopped believing.
The security of salvation (Christ) is gained through your believing. Stop believing and you no longer have the security of Christ who is gained through believing/trusting in Him.
So the question really boils down to if you can stop believing or not. Well, if we couldn't Paul sure wasted a lot of time persuading the saved Galatians not to go back to the law in unbelief and become slaves to the law who don't inherit the kingdom, noting that only sons through faith in Christ are in line for the inheritance.
He who BELIEVES presently has everlasting life, not the person who has stopped believing.
The security of salvation (Christ) is gained through your believing. Stop believing and you no longer have the security of Christ who is gained through believing/trusting in Him.
So the question really boils down to if you can stop believing or not. Well, if we couldn't Paul sure wasted a lot of time persuading the saved Galatians not to go back to the law in unbelief and become slaves to the law who don't inherit the kingdom, noting that only sons through faith in Christ are in line for the inheritance.
Hmm.. first off thanks for your answer. Let's check the Scriptures together to see if your answer jives with it completely.
2 Co 1:21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Not much of a guarantee then. Also please notice this Scripture also says it is "God who establishes us".
And you didn't explain how a person goes back to being the old man? Because I have a real issue grappling my mind around this one here. Cuz my Bible says...
Colossians 3:3 3For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
This is a real conundrum isn't it? Because it says we died and now every part of us is found in Christ, so if we lose our salvation (or if Holy Spirit left us even though He promised to never forsake us) we have nothing to go back to. Cuz the old man is DEAD. And now the new man is found in Christ.
Paul goes so far to say that we no longer no ourselves by the flesh?
16From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Hmm, another issue cuz it says the old has passed and the new is here. So now in Christ we are no longer known by the flesh, and we don't even have the old to return to!
So we simply just become lost again and there's no way for us to repent back to saved status? Is that what you're saying... oh man that's even scarier... this is going to make prison ministry difficult Ralph.
2 Co 1:21 And it is God who establishes us with you in Christ, and has anointed us, 22and who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
Not much of a guarantee then. Also please notice this Scripture also says it is "God who establishes us".
And you didn't explain how a person goes back to being the old man? Because I have a real issue grappling my mind around this one here. Cuz my Bible says...
Colossians 3:3 3For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
This is a real conundrum isn't it? Because it says we died and now every part of us is found in Christ, so if we lose our salvation (or if Holy Spirit left us even though He promised to never forsake us) we have nothing to go back to. Cuz the old man is DEAD. And now the new man is found in Christ.
Paul goes so far to say that we no longer no ourselves by the flesh?
16From now on, therefore, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we once regarded Christ according to the flesh, we regard him thus no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
Hmm, another issue cuz it says the old has passed and the new is here. So now in Christ we are no longer known by the flesh, and we don't even have the old to return to!
So we simply just become lost again and there's no way for us to repent back to saved status? Is that what you're saying... oh man that's even scarier... this is going to make prison ministry difficult Ralph.
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E
I will never understand the mindset
1, he saved us while we were sinners (his enemy) in other words, at our worse.
2. He said clearly, after we are born of God we can not live in sin anymore, it is against our nature, we are made new, our life is in him
3. He said if we go astray he will come after us, we know his voice and we will follow, he will chasten us (as true sons) and at least resort, he will take us home
4.considering this, we will never be to the point as children where we are qorse sinners than the moment we were saved, so how can we believe god saves us ar our worse, then we will lose our salvation even though we will never return to that state of sin again?
Where does this thinking come from that we can sin ourself out of our adoption?
1, he saved us while we were sinners (his enemy) in other words, at our worse.
2. He said clearly, after we are born of God we can not live in sin anymore, it is against our nature, we are made new, our life is in him
3. He said if we go astray he will come after us, we know his voice and we will follow, he will chasten us (as true sons) and at least resort, he will take us home
4.considering this, we will never be to the point as children where we are qorse sinners than the moment we were saved, so how can we believe god saves us ar our worse, then we will lose our salvation even though we will never return to that state of sin again?
Where does this thinking come from that we can sin ourself out of our adoption?