New Covenant and Old Covenant

[tanakh]

All those who are in Christ are no longer under the old covenant. The old covenant was a temporary measure. Its purpose was to expose sin and provide a means to cover it until Christ came. Only those who are outside the body of Christ are still under the law. The Law was given to Israel. Israel is a type and Shadow of the true Israel which is Christ himself. Anyone who is in Christ is part of Israel. Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf.

 

[Shamah]

Yep...still in denial.

Ok, tell me how the Law is done away when the Messiah, the Sent One, the One we must hear and obey (Deut 18:18-19) says it will not pass till heaven and earth pass? Or do you deny His words or find ways to reject them?

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."

You toss out the Levitical priesthood but cling to the rest of the Law of sin and death.

The Law of sin and death is not do not murder, do not steal.. It is the ways of the world... sin...

Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin* that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


*What is sin, that we may not continue in it and thus have “died to sin”?


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”


Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”

You toss out the Levitical priesthood but cling to the rest of the Law of sin and death.

Romans 7 -

7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.


1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Never ttruly understanding the New covenant and how salvation is by Grace and Faith, not works.

yeah ok.

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."


John 13:35, “By this shall all know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”


John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”


John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”


John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”


John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

His words...His words....

Never ttruly understanding the New covenant and how salvation is by Grace and Faith, not works.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”[/FONT]


who says the law is sin and death? is that you?

You toss out the Levitical priesthood but cling to the rest of the Law of sin and death.

 

[Ariel82]

Inprecision of language and then folks stand back and act as if they said it all along...

 

[Ariel82]

Jesus calls the Old covenant THE LAW OF SIN AND DEATH. The New Covenant laws given in Matt 5 are different and called the Law of the Spirit. Reject it for you like.

2 Corinthians 3

7Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit have even more glory? 9For if there was glory in the ministry of condemnation, the ministry of righteousness must far exceed it in glory

 

[graceNpeace]

Ok, tell me how the Law is done away when the Messiah, the Sent One, the One we must hear and obey (Deut 18:18-19) says it will not pass till heaven and earth pass? Or do you deny His words or find ways to reject them?

Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1, "I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away."





The Law of sin and death is not do not murder, do not steal.. It is the ways of the world... sin...

Romans, “6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin* that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?"


*What is sin, that we may not continue in it and thus have “died to sin”?


1 John 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."


Romans 7:25, “Thanks be to YHWH, I have deliverance through Yahshua Messiah our King! So then, with this same mind, I myself serve the Law of YHWH, while in the flesh that is yet subject to the law of sin.”


Romans 8:2, “Because through Yahshua Messiah, the Law of the Spirit has set me free from the law of sin and death.”





Romans 7 -

7 What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet.

12 Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.
13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful.
14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I was carnal, sold into the power of sin*.


1 John 3:4, "...for sin is the transgression of the Law."




yeah ok.

John/Yahanan 12:48, "He who rejects Me, and does not follow My words has One Who judges him. The word that I have spoken, the same will be used to judge him in the last day."


John 13:35, “By this shall all know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another.”


John/Yahanan 14:6, "Yahshua proclaimed to him: I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man comes to the Father, except through Me."


John/Yahanan 10:16, "And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to My voice. So there will be one flock, one Shepherd (4166 –poimén)."


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


John/Yahanan 5:39, “You search the Scriptures, because you think you possess everlasting life in them. And these are the ones that bear witness of Me.”


John/Yahanan 14:26, “But the Comforter; the Holy Spirit which YHWH will send in My Name will teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatever I (Yahshua/Jesus) have said to you.”


John/Yahanan 6:63, “It is the Spirit that gives life; the flesh is useless. The words (Instructions) that I (Yahshua/Jesus) speak to you, they are Spirit, and they are life everlasting.”


John 14:23-24, “יהושע answered him, “If anyone loves Me, he shall guard My Word. And My Father shall love him, and We shall come to him and make Our home with him. He who does not love Me does not guard My Words. And the Word which you hear is not Mine but of the Father Who sent Me.”

His words...His words....



Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”


who says the law is sin and death? is that you?

Still cherry-picking texts to suit I see...
Sadly context is lacking...

 

[Ariel82]

Now compare these two verses you give...


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

****


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


*****

There is a difference between Jesus teaching and the Law (as given on Mount Sinai). Do you know it?

 

[Yahshua]

Now compare these two verses you give...


Mat 5:18, "I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh; the smallest of the letters will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

****


Mat 24:35, “Heaven and earth may pass away, but My teachings will not pass away.”


*****

There is a difference between Jesus teaching and the Law (as given on Mount Sinai). Do you know it?

One was written on tablets of stone and the other was "written" with the breath of his mouth.

I think you're overlooking the most obvious point: Has heaven and earth passed away at any point yet?

 

[gb9]

One was written on tablets of stone and the other was "written" with the breath of his mouth.

I think you're overlooking the most obvious point: Has heaven and earth passed away at any point yet?

and you and others continue to pluck verses out of context, and just attach your opinion commentary, and call it Scripture.

on the Cross, Jesus said " it is finished ". in Luke 24, v. 44-48, Jesus himself explains things to the Disciples , how things are finished. you and others continue to ignore any Scripture that you cannot bend back toward the Law.

 

[Ariel82]

One was written on tablets of stone and the other was "written" with the breath of his mouth.

I think you're overlooking the most obvious point: Has heaven and earth passed away at any point yet?

No the point is..,are you under the Old covenant laws or the New covenant laws?

They are not the same but folks want to deny this.

Those who want to be under the old covenant can chose to be and get the curses that Moses spoke of.

However you can't be in the New covenant and not learn the Laws God placed in the New covenant and how they are different from the covenant given on Mount Sinai.

There is a difference between Jesus teaching and the Law (as given on Mount Sinai). Do you know it?

It's Not just where they are written.

 

[Yahshua]

No the point is..,are you under the Old covenant laws or the New covenant laws?

They are not the same but folks want to deny this.

Those who want to be under the old covenant can chose to be and get the curses that Moses spoke of.

However you can't be in the New covenant and not learn the Laws God placed in the New covenant and how they are different from the covenant given on Mount Sinai.

There is a difference between Jesus teaching and the Law (as given on Mount Sinai). Do you know it?

It's Not just where they are written.

It's a simple question: has heaven and earth passed away yet? Let's lean on the passage that you've quoted; on what Christ says. We have to start there (on Christ's words), agreed?

 

[Yahshua]

and you and others continue to pluck verses out of context, and just attach your opinion commentary, and call it Scripture.

on the Cross, Jesus said " it is finished ". in Luke 24, v. 44-48, Jesus himself explains things to the Disciples , how things are finished. you and others continue to ignore any Scripture that you cannot bend back toward the Law.

Unfortunately you're guilty of what you've accused me of (plucking out of context). What exactly is finished that Christ is referring to? Has ALL that has been written in the scriptures (specifically what we call the "OT") been fulfilled?

 

[gb9]

It's a simple question: has heaven and earth passed away yet? Let's lean on the passage that you've quoted; on what Christ says. We have to start there (on Christ's words), agreed?

no, we do not. we start at Matthew 1 and go till the end of John. there is where the Words of Christ are found. they should not be broken into pieces and theology built around the pieces.

but, I understand that is the only way Hebrew roots / sda deception can work, so I get why you and others do not want to properly handle the Word.

 

[Studyman]

and you and others continue to pluck verses out of context, and just attach your opinion commentary, and call it Scripture.

on the Cross, Jesus said " it is finished ". in Luke 24, v. 44-48, Jesus himself explains things to the Disciples , how things are finished. you and others continue to ignore any Scripture that you cannot bend back toward the Law.

Yes, Jesus finished His role in His Fathers plan as a human. But He still has to come back and perform other prophesies.

Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This hasn't happened yet so this hasn't been "finished". I think we will know when this happens.

Did I take this verse out of context G9, and if so, can you explain how?

 

[Yahshua]

no, we do not. we start at Matthew 1 and go till the end of John. there is where the Words of Christ are found. they should not be broken into pieces and theology built around the pieces.

but, I understand that is the only way Hebrew roots / sda deception can work, so I get why you and others do not want to properly handle the Word.

...you do not lean on the passage that Ariel has quoted?? I'm confused at your reply.

But OK let's start wherever you want to start. I've no problem started at Genesis 1 and going through to Revelation 22, but sure we can start at Matthew 1.

 

[gb9]

Yes, Jesus finished His role in His Fathers plan as a human. But He still has to come back and perform other prophesies.

Matt. 13:41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

This hasn't happened yet so this hasn't been "finished". I think we will know when this happens.

Did I take this verse out of context G9, and if so, can you explain how?

still waiting on someone to explain Luke 24 v. 44-48. Jesus spoke these words AFTER Mathew 5, after the cross. do these just not count?

 

[Yahshua]

still waiting on someone to explain Luke 24 v. 44-48. Jesus spoke these words AFTER Mathew 5, after the cross. do these just not count?

I thought you wanted to start at Matthew 1? You said "they should not be broken into pieces" to build a theology.

 

[Studyman]

still waiting on someone to explain Luke 24 v. 44-48. Jesus spoke these words AFTER Mathew 5, after the cross. do these just not count?

They count, but you can't use them to erase verses that doesn't fit your religion.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Like the Word said, the prophesies regarding His coming as a flesh and blood human, the murder of Him by the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of that time, and His resurrection on the 3rd day has all been accomplished.

Truly the Passover Lamb has been sacrificed. But Passover is the Beginning of God's Salvation plan, not the end as you imply. And Luke confirms this.

Next time He comes He won't be pushed around by a bunch of self righteous preachers who reject His Words, create their own High Days and Sabbath and images of Him, and claim His reward. Next time He comes, He wont come as a Lamb to be ridiculed, spit on and persecuted by those who call Him Lord, Lord, but refuse to do what He says.

That hasn't happened yet, but as sure as the Christ existed in the first place, it will come to pass. And when that part is over He will once again stand before His Father and say "It is finished".

 

[gb9]

They count, but you can't use them to erase verses that doesn't fit your religion.

44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,


46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.

Like the Word said, the prophesies regarding His coming as a flesh and blood human, the murder of Him by the Mainstream God of Abraham preaching people of that time, and His resurrection on the 3rd day has all been accomplished.

Truly the Passover Lamb has been sacrificed. But Passover is the Beginning of God's Salvation plan, not the end as you imply. And Luke confirms this.

Next time He comes He won't be pushed around by a bunch of self righteous preachers who reject His Words, create their own High Days and Sabbath and images of Him, and claim His reward. Next time He comes, He wont come as a Lamb to be ridiculed, spit on and persecuted by those who call Him Lord, Lord, but refuse to do what He says.

That hasn't happened yet, but as sure as the Christ existed in the first place, it will come to pass. And when that part is over He will once again stand before His Father and say "It is finished".

I am not trying to erase anything. I simply believe that we should read the Bible with a balancing scale, so that Scripture is balanced with Scripture.

I do not believe, and will not, use a bathroom scale, so I can put my foot on any Scripture I choose, to give it more weight than others. you do this with " the Word became Flesh " and " you are of your father the devil ". you want to take those two parts of Scripture and throw out the vast majority of historical theology , dismiss history, and invent your own religion.

sorry, I can't go along with that. I gave you my word I would be respectful of you if you were of me. in my opinion, we have done so. I think it is wise to part ways now.

 

[Studyman]

I am not trying to erase anything. I simply believe that we should read the Bible with a balancing scale, so that Scripture is balanced with Scripture.

I do not believe, and will not, use a bathroom scale, so I can put my foot on any Scripture I choose, to give it more weight than others. you do this with " the Word became Flesh " and " you are of your father the devil ". you want to take those two parts of Scripture and throw out the vast majority of historical theology , dismiss history, and invent your own religion.

sorry, I can't go along with that. I gave you my word I would be respectful of you if you were of me. in my opinion, we have done so. I think it is wise to part ways now.

Yes, that may be best. I trust the Word's of God more than the Word's of man G9. Regarding the Pharisees who you seem to defend, I didn't take one scripture and give it more weight than the others.

Matt. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance:

Matt. 12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Matt. 23:33 Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Gen. 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

1 John 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Luke 13:15 The Lord then answered him, and said, Thou hypocrite, doth not each one of you on the sabbath loose his ox or his ass from the stall, and lead him away to watering?
16
And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

John 8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

You see G9, I don't ever do as you imply. I NEVER take one verse and use it to destroy another, or use it to make void another. My understanding of the Pharisees being servants of satan comes from thorough study of the Bible front and back.

I am not perfect, I am still learning, especially how to communicate what I have found. But the statement Jesus made of the Pharisees being children of the devil is backed up by this same theme throughout the entire New Testament. I didn't even show you the support for this same theme in the OT which is significant.

This Biblical truth is how I know of the Mainstream lie that the Pharisees were trying to earn salvation by following God's Laws. The DEvil is interested in turning people away from God's teaching as the Pharisees clearly did.

Matt. 23:13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.

and again;

15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

Given all this evidence, and no evidence against it, why do you still suggest that I am twisting or taking out of context God's Word to promote, what you preach is a false teaching, that the Pharisees were serving satan, not God.?

We can part ways, but just know it is still my great desire that you might someday look at the Word and consider, "you know, maybe Jesus is right?

 

[Ariel82]

It's a simple question: has heaven and earth passed away yet? Let's lean on the passage that you've quoted; on what Christ says. We have to start there (on Christ's words), agreed?

Those who want to be under the old covenant can chose to be and get the curses that Moses spoke of.

When Jesus comes to establish the New Heaven and New Earth, folks not written in His book will be tossed into the fire.

You don't get in the Lambs book of life by keeping Old covenant laws.

You don't even get in it by keeping New covenant laws.


Grace and faith in Christ finished work upon the cross is what is needed. Some people proclaim they have it but God knows the truth. Are you lead by the Spirit or the Letter?