Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
12,329
6,696
113
Now that they know who you are addressing, they can rest at ease because the word of God tells us if we are silent about what we know are wrong we will be judged about it.

Youh ave been warned, use it do not use it.
and you and them have been warned that keeping the Law does not save. you will now say "i agree ", then go on to explain how one has to keep it.
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,222
3,201
113
and you and them have been warned that keeping the Law does not save. you will now say "i agree ", then go on to explain how one has to keep it.
I agree, but I have to explain that one has to keep it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
I don't know who He is that will redeem anybody into Hebrew Law.... :rolleyes: I know God gave Israel His Law? :)
Yes, He certainly did. As a covenant.
Did He give me, a Gentile of pagan descent, the same Law? I had neither a written instruction nor a conscience that forbade me to eat prawns wrapped in bacon before He opened my eyes to His Salvation. Do I sin then, now, if I enjoy a pork sandwich and do I blaspheme if I thank God for such a meal?

Am I spitting on His grace if I continue with the same diet that I had previously? Am I set free or by redeeming me from the curse of the Law did He actually place me under its judgement?
 
Last edited:

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
maybe His Law is written in ones heart?

Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”


NOW you are correct. SALVATION happens in a single moment, as a FREE GIFT.

IN THAT SINGLE MOMENT OF SALVATION: the Holy Spirit comes into your heart, HE births your once dead spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, HE pours GOD's LOVE directly into your heart, HE will put the desire to obey HIS COMMANDS into your hearts, HE will empower you LOVE HIM who SAVED YOU including to receive HIM as LORD, and that is all in that single moment.

THEN AFTER SALVATION: HE will create in your being a HUNGER FOR THE WORD, HE will make the WORD of GOD understandable with spiritual understanding, HE will give you the DEEP Understanding of GOD and HIS will is, HE will EMPOWER you to WALK in HIS ways, HE will gift you spiritually with gifts to SERVE the other BELIEVERS (NOT SELF) in your Congregation (everyone has a different gift depending what is your ministry), and FILL YOU WITH JOY as you busy yourself in the ministry HE as designed you to serve in.

For example: MUSIC MINISTRY, is NOT one of my Gifts; but the GIFT TO ENCOURAGE OTHERS is one of my gifts, and so is the Ministry of Helps.

NOTICE all of that above IS WHAT THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES FOR US. How dare we take Credit for any of it. HE GIVES US the empowerment to Obey HIM, how dare we take the GLORY from GOD the Holy Spirit; and say "Look what I did! If you are not humble enough to recognize the HOLY SPIRIT IN YOU, and give HIM the Credit HE deserves; HOW CAN THE HOLY SPIRIT BE IN YOU?
 
Last edited:

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
13,558
113
maybe His Law is written in ones heart?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”
[/FONT]
NOW you are correct. SALVATION happens in a single moment, as a FREE GIFT.

IN THAT SINGLE MOMENT OF SALVATION: the Holy Spirit comes into your heart, HE births your once dead spirit into ETERNAL LIFE, HE pours GOD's LOVE directly into your heart, HE will put the desire to obey HIS COMMANDS into your hearts, HE will empower you LOVE HIM who SAVED YOU including to receive HIM as LORD, and that is all in that single moment.
...
Is 'putting the desire to obey His commandments in your heart' the same as 'writing His commands in our mind and on our heart?'

If He really writes His commands on my heart is it necessary for someone else to tell me 'this is the Lord's command' or will I know them inherently because He Himself inscribed them on my innermost being?

What's that prophecy really saying? That I'll need a ministry of the letter still, but He'll cause me to 'want to not be condemned for disobedience?'
or that I will not need one at all?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
You know what gNp I know now of three instances of people getting really sick from eating pork meat. The one guy did not even eat it regularly and he almost died of what happened to him.

Do you understand Afrikaans or are you a full blown soutie?

Hey bro, I eat pork all the time. I love pork chops. We eat alot of pork. Pork can be dangerous, Especially if it is not prepared correct.

I hope you do not think I am mocking God doing that
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
I do not believe my friend Gandolf is hebrew roots. Lets listen before we judge.. We have to many people rushing to judgment and trying to put people in boxes they do not belong in,
 

Shamah

Senior Member
Jan 6, 2018
2,735
692
113
Is 'putting the desire to obey His commandments in your heart' the same as 'writing His commands in our mind and on our heart?'

If He really writes His commands on my heart is it necessary for someone else to tell me 'this is the Lord's command' or will I know them inherently because He Himself inscribed them on my innermost being?

What's that prophecy really saying? That I'll need a ministry of the letter still, but He'll cause me to 'want to not be condemned for disobedience?'
or that I will not need one at all?
I believe it is saying that our heart will desire the things that are in His Law, we can sheck if we are following the correct spirit by the Word. If it allings with the Word we are in the correct spirit. However if someone is fighting tooth and nail against the Law, the same one written in the heart it is hard to beleive they have the Law written on their heart...

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 36:26-28, "A new heart, will I also give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the heart of stone out of your flesh, and will give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will keep My judgments, and do them. And you will dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and you will be My people, and I will be your Father."[/FONT]



[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Zechariah 7:11-13, "But they refused to pay any attention--they turned a stubborn shoulder, and they stopped their ears so they would not be able to hear. Yes, they made their hearts like a hard adamant stone, in order not to hear the Law and the words, which YHWH of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Therefore, great wrath came from YHWH of hosts. Just as I called, and they would not hear, so they called, and I would not hear, says YHWH of hosts!"[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Ezekiel 11:19-21, “And I shall give them one heart, and put a new spirit within you. And I shall take the stony heart out of their flesh, and give them a heart of flesh, so that they walk in My laws, and guard My right-rulings, and shall do them. And they shall be My people and I shall be their Strength. But to those whose hearts walk after the heart of their disgusting matters and their abominations, I shall recompense their deeds on their own heads,” declares the Master [/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]יהוה[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif].”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Jeremiah 31:33, "For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israyl: After those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law (Torah/Instructions) in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts, and I will be their Strength, and they will be My people."[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Hebrews 10:16, "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says YHWH: I will put My Law into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.”

[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Isaiah 51:7, “Listen to Me, you who know righteousness, a people in whose heart is My Torah (Instructions/Law): do not fear the reproach of men, nor be afraid of their reviling.”[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]
[/FONT]
 

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
Is 'putting the desire to obey His commandments in your heart' the same as 'writing His commands in our mind and on our heart?'

If He really writes His commands on my heart is it necessary for someone else to tell me 'this is the Lord's command' or will I know them inherently because He Himself inscribed them on my innermost being?

What's that prophecy really saying? That I'll need a ministry of the letter still, but He'll cause me to 'want to not be condemned for disobedience?'
or that I will not need one at all?

I would say it is the same. Believe me to think spiritual truths, is a ministry of the Holy Spirit. Let me ask you one thing, before you became born again, was it possible to think spiritually?

1 Corinthians 2:7-16 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


I do not know why, but most Christians do not know all that the Holy Spirit does in your heart.
 
Last edited:

VCO

Senior Member
Oct 14, 2013
11,995
4,615
113
I would say it is the same. Believe me to think spiritual truths, is a ministry of the Holy Spirit. Let me ask you one thing, before you became born again, was it possible to think spiritually?

1 Corinthians 2:7-16 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
[SUP]10 [/SUP] but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.


I do not know why, but most Christians do not know all that the Holy Spirit does in your heart.

Paul also put it this way:

Galatians 2:20 (ESV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.


Don't you think HE MEANT THAT LITERALLY? I sure do!

HE gets credit for the good things I do!

I have to accept the credit for the bad things that I do.
 
Last edited:
Jan 25, 2015
9,222
3,201
113

Hey bro, I eat pork all the time. I love pork chops. We eat alot of pork. Pork can be dangerous, Especially if it is not prepared correct.

I hope you do not think I am mocking God doing that
You should actually read the reply from gNp and then do research on the worms he mentioned there. I could only find one website stating that the worms from pork meat can be treated, the rest of them openly admits that there are no treatment for the worms and it would take up to 25 years for the worms to die in your body. Yes, some of the other worms are also dangerous but nothing compared to what we find in our pig friends. The heat we prepare the meat on is also not high enough to kill the worms in pork meat (fact).

Then we have the following verses in the Bible that should at least ignite a little flame somewhere inside all of us:
Isa 65:2 I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people,which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
Isa 65:3 A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
Isa65:4 Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,402
113
This is unfortunately not Biblical as we can see that when Israel was in God’s promise they prospered but when they turned away from God and his laws they were in dire straits. Was there anybody (except for Jesus) who could keep the law 100%? Of course not,but that is why we need a Saviour.

Jesus didn’t die on the cross so we can eat pork chops and prawns, and work seven days a week. That is an insult to Him and His grace.
Hahhaahhaha you argue against the truth I posted and then post that which is flawed and wrong...wow........you have a lot of unlearning to do and then pick up the bible!
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,222
3,201
113
Yes, He certainly did. As a covenant.
Did He give me, a Gentile of pagan descent, the same Law? I had neither a written instruction nor a conscience that forbade me to eat prawns wrapped in bacon before He opened my eyes to His Salvation. Do I sin then, now, if I enjoy a pork sandwich and do I blaspheme if I thank God for such a meal?

Am I spitting on His grace if I continue with the same diet that I had previously? Am I set free or by redeeming me from the curse of the Law did He actually place me under its judgement?
Friend all we can do when discussing these issues is go back to the source of the truth and that is the Bible.

The first thing we have to consider is that Israel was not alone at mount Sinai when God made a covenant with them. There were other nations present that day also.
Second thing is the Bible teaches us that we are all descendants of Abraham if we are in Christ. So we are all Hebrews :)
Third thing is that we are now all part of a spiritual Israel and if we don't believe that we cannot accept that Jesus came for us because He plainly said that he came for the lost sheep of Israel (me and you). He is not capable of telling a lie.

Regarding your eating habits :rolleyes: I will quote the same verses as above: Isaiah 65 verse 1-4 :D
 
Jan 25, 2015
9,222
3,201
113
Hahhaahhaha you argue against the truth I posted and then post that which is flawed and wrong...wow........you have a lot of unlearning to do and then pick up the bible!
I agree, I am still learning... every day a little more than the previous day. The sad thing is that we have people that are not willing to open themselves to a learning experience anymore.

May God forgive me if I posted anything wrong in my reply to you brother dc :)
 

star

Senior Member
Nov 8, 2017
1,582
2,046
113
North Carolina
Nobody believes that salvation is gained by works.
Nobody believes that salvation is kept by works.
Nobody believes salvation is earned by works.
Nobody believes salvation can be lost.

But this I will tell you, if you do not do good works, you were never saved in the first place, so good works establishes the fact that you have faith in Jesus Christ. So true faith leads to true and loving good works. Simple. As James says, good works perfects your faith, or what I said, good works establishes that you have true faith.

If you don't have good works and provide fruit fit for the KOG, then it establishes that you were not saved back in the day, when you had a spiritual experience and you thought your were baptized of the HG. Aperson doesn't lose their salvation, they just never had it to start with.
Well then you are not reading the over 3,000 pages of posts on here if you claim what I said is not true. You've got some reading to do it looks like.

As for if one does not do good works that means they were not saved in the first place, well non-believers do good works. Do you suppose only saved people are capable of such a thing as good works?

Works is not the evidence of salvation. The Blood of Jesus Christ, the sealing of the Holy Spirit, that all comes with the acceptance of an individual of Savior, the Son of God.

Besides, the soul of a person that is saved or unsaved is only known unto God, Creator of all that is.
 

Zmouth

Senior Member
Nov 21, 2012
3,391
134
63

Hey bro, I eat pork all the time. I love pork chops. We eat alot of pork. Pork can be dangerous, Especially if it is not prepared correct.

I hope you do not think I am mocking God doing that
Notwithstanding thou mayest kill and eat flesh in all thy gates, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, according to the blessing of the LORD thy God which he hath given thee: the unclean and the clean may eat thereof, as of the roebuck, and as of the hart.
Deut 12:15

By grace, through faith that God would take care of their sin.
So why do you call it a sin if not of the law yet if not of the law then it would be of faith.

20 When the LORD thy God shall enlarge thy border, as he hath promised thee, and thou shalt say, I will eat flesh, because thy soul longeth to eat flesh; thou mayest eat flesh, whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.


21 If the place which the LORD thy God hath chosen to put his name there be too far from thee, then thou shalt kill of thy herd and of thy flock, which the LORD hath given thee, as I have commanded thee, and thou shalt eat in thy gates whatsoever thy soul lusteth after.
Deut 12:20-21
 
N

NoNameMcgee

Guest
I agree, I am still learning... every day a little more than the previous day. The sad thing is that we have people that are not willing to open themselves to a learning experience anymore.

May God forgive me if I posted anything wrong in my reply to you brother dc :)

i do agree many here consider themself as wise

while not even knowing what it truely means to be born again

:(

people who push doctrine of men

people who know of the law

but have no idea of what grace truely is


i was one of these

puffed up chest

nose held high

ready to teach anyone anything

God broke the false doctrine of sinless perfection from me....

even though i had read the bible over and over
i still was in error

and i couldnt see it

but one night ..... i prayed to God
to open my eyes

to deliver me from any sort of itching ear i may have had

to show me the truth

to deliver me from lies

no matter how much i hate it
no matter how much of a fool i will look like having pointed so many people to the false doctrine i may have believed

please just show me what He wanted me to see....


it wasnt over night...

it was followed by a lot more go throughs of scripture

a lot more prayer.... a lot of crying.... like a helpless baby


well God has now revealed to me the truth
:eek:

He truely will provide what we ask according to His will

the scriptures completely opened up in a whole new way
there is no confusion.. :D

anyways

i do believe being open to learn is important

but i cannot unlearn what He has revealed to me

it is absolutely true....

i am far from all knowing

but i know some things that cannot be desputed
;)