Does God Sever Fellowship With Us When We Sin?
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E
hey bro, i did not ask the outcome, i know the outcome, i asked you what ot looked like, what consitituted bearing fruit, like the term flesh, it was finding out what these two terms actually meant that finally opend my eyes.
amen it does not give you a license to sin, and i have yet to hear one person who believe in osas say we can go on sinning all we want, about the only people i hear say this is people like ralph who are running out if argume ts against eternal security
What does turn away mean? Loss of salvation?
amen it does not give you a license to sin, and i have yet to hear one person who believe in osas say we can go on sinning all we want, about the only people i hear say this is people like ralph who are running out if argume ts against eternal security
What does turn away mean? Loss of salvation?
1 Deuteronomy 31:6, Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the LORD your God goes with you; "He will never leave you nor forsake you."
2 Deuteronomy 31:8, The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; He will never leave you nor forsake you. "Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."
3 Joshua 1:5, No one will be able to stand up against you all the days of your life. "As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you."
4 1Kings 8:57, "May the LORD our God be with us as he was with our fathers; may He never leave us nor forsake us."
5 1Chronicles 28:20, David also said to Solomon his son, "Be strong and courageous, and do the work. "Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the LORD God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you until all the work for the service of the temple of the LORD is finished."
6 Psalms 37:28, For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. "They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;"
7 Psalms 94:14 "For the LORD will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance."
8 Isaiah 41:17 "The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. But I the LORD will answer them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them."
9 Isaiah 42:16 "I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them."
10 Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”
2 Deuteronomy 31:8, The LORD himself goes before you and will be with you; He will never leave you nor forsake you. "Do not be afraid; do not be discouraged."
3 Joshua 1:5, No one will be able to stand up against you all the days of your life. "As I was with Moses, so I will be with you; I will never leave you nor forsake you."
4 1Kings 8:57, "May the LORD our God be with us as he was with our fathers; may He never leave us nor forsake us."
5 1Chronicles 28:20, David also said to Solomon his son, "Be strong and courageous, and do the work. "Do not be afraid or discouraged, for the LORD God, my God, is with you. He will not fail you or forsake you until all the work for the service of the temple of the LORD is finished."
6 Psalms 37:28, For the LORD loves the just and will not forsake his faithful ones. "They will be protected forever, but the offspring of the wicked will be cut off;"
7 Psalms 94:14 "For the LORD will not reject his people; he will never forsake his inheritance."
8 Isaiah 41:17 "The poor and needy search for water, but there is none; their tongues are parched with thirst. But I the LORD will answer them; I, the God of Israel, will not forsake them."
9 Isaiah 42:16 "I will lead the blind by ways they have not known, along unfamiliar paths I will guide them; I will turn the darkness into light before them and make the rough places smooth. These are the things I will do; I will not forsake them."
10 Hebrews 13:5 Keep your lives free from the love of money and be content with what you have, because God has said, “Never will I leave you; never will I forsake you.”
GOD DOESN'T BREAK FELLOWSHIP.
WE DO.
Ralph, I can post scripture like you do and just drop it there with limited commentary like you are and twist it ten ways out of context.
But you cannot get around the full context of scripture that God is always seeking us and pursuing us. He is always in fellowship, it is is who choose not to be in fellowship with him.
WE DO.
Ralph, I can post scripture like you do and just drop it there with limited commentary like you are and twist it ten ways out of context.
But you cannot get around the full context of scripture that God is always seeking us and pursuing us. He is always in fellowship, it is is who choose not to be in fellowship with him.
23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if you were cut off from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these who are the natural branches be grafted into their own olive tree?
Did you forget to read the verses after? It was there own unbelief that broke fellowship! They were dying branches that were broken already, they chose that state. God didn't sever them, they severs themselves on the stumbling stone. They couldn't believe, that is how they cut themselves off.
Stop posting one verse out of context and just read the bible...
Did you forget to read the verses after? It was there own unbelief that broke fellowship! They were dying branches that were broken already, they chose that state. God didn't sever them, they severs themselves on the stumbling stone. They couldn't believe, that is how they cut themselves off.
Stop posting one verse out of context and just read the bible...
R
You left out one....
"I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’ 18And I will certainly hide my face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods."-Deuteronomy 31:17-18
Notice that this quote comes right from the very same chapter and context where the "He will never leave you nor forsake you" you quoted above comes from (vs.6 & 8).
"I will become angry with them and forsake them; I will hide my face from them, and they will be destroyed. Many disasters and calamities will come on them, and in that day they will ask, ‘Have not these disasters come on us because our God is not with us?’ 18And I will certainly hide my face in that day because of all their wickedness in turning to other gods."-Deuteronomy 31:17-18
Notice that this quote comes right from the very same chapter and context where the "He will never leave you nor forsake you" you quoted above comes from (vs.6 & 8).
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R
Hypergrace believes that you can not only live in wanton sin, but you can even go back to utter unbelief and a denial of Christ and you are still saved. They justify that belief through the distorted belief that says if you got saved by doing nothing, then you can't lose it by doing nothing.
Here, read a description of what Hypergrace/Freegrace theology believes about the freedom of the believer to sin and go back to unbelief:
Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."[6] For example, Stanley writes:
The doctrine sees the work of salvation as wholly monergistic, which is to say that God alone performs it and man has no part in the process beyond receiving it, and therefore, proponents argue that man cannot undo what they believe God has done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints#Free_Grace_doctrine
It's accurate. I have debated Hypergrace believers and this is exactly what they said they believed.
As I've said before, today most 'once saved always saved' believers are influenced in some way by this new (but old) doctrine sweeping through the church. Even hardcore Calvinist and Calvinist leaning people are being swayed by it. Which is hard to believe since it is so diametrically and utterly opposed to traditional 'once saved always saved' perseverance of the saints 'P' doctrine.
That's why it's almost useless to talk to 'once saved always saved' people about this. Since they have this horrible mix of these two opposing views about 'once saved always saved' they run to the safety of one view of the two doctrines that suits the discussion they are in. In the next discussion they run back to the other opposing 'once saved always saved' view.
Here, read a description of what Hypergrace/Freegrace theology believes about the freedom of the believer to sin and go back to unbelief:
Charles Stanley, pastor of Atlanta's megachurch First Baptist and a television evangelist, has written that the doctrine of eternal security of the believer persuaded him years ago to leave his familial Pentecostalism and become a Southern Baptist. He sums up his deep conviction that salvation is by faith alone in Christ alone when he claims, "Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy… believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation."[6] For example, Stanley writes:
Look at that verse [John 3:18] and answer this question: According to Jesus, what must a person do to keep from being judged for sin? Must he stop doing something? Must he promise to stop doing something? Must he have never done something? The answer is so simple that many stumble all over it without ever seeing it. All Jesus requires is that the individual "believe in" Him.
— Charles Stanley[6] (p. 67).
In a chapter entitled "For Those Who Stop Believing", he says, "The Bible clearly teaches that God's love for His people is of such magnitude that even those who walk away from the faith have not the slightest chance of slipping from His hand (p. 74)." A little later, Stanley also writes: "You and I are not saved because we have an enduring faith. We are saved because at a moment in time we expressed faith in our enduring Lord" (p. 80).— Charles Stanley[6] (p. 67).
The doctrine sees the work of salvation as wholly monergistic, which is to say that God alone performs it and man has no part in the process beyond receiving it, and therefore, proponents argue that man cannot undo what they believe God has done.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints#Free_Grace_doctrine
It's accurate. I have debated Hypergrace believers and this is exactly what they said they believed.
As I've said before, today most 'once saved always saved' believers are influenced in some way by this new (but old) doctrine sweeping through the church. Even hardcore Calvinist and Calvinist leaning people are being swayed by it. Which is hard to believe since it is so diametrically and utterly opposed to traditional 'once saved always saved' perseverance of the saints 'P' doctrine.
That's why it's almost useless to talk to 'once saved always saved' people about this. Since they have this horrible mix of these two opposing views about 'once saved always saved' they run to the safety of one view of the two doctrines that suits the discussion they are in. In the next discussion they run back to the other opposing 'once saved always saved' view.
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E
1 you dd not prove your point, no place in what you posted did mr stanly say you can sin all you want, it does not matter.
2. You have debated hypergrace believers in here, many of you for over a year now, and you have failed to prove your point, because they do not teach this, far from it
your the only one who teaches is, by slandering a group of believers so you can live with your own legalism. Which in and of itself is an excusing sin gospel, you can sin all you want, as long as it is not the big sins..
2. You have debated hypergrace believers in here, many of you for over a year now, and you have failed to prove your point, because they do not teach this, far from it
your the only one who teaches is, by slandering a group of believers so you can live with your own legalism. Which in and of itself is an excusing sin gospel, you can sin all you want, as long as it is not the big sins..
R
budman is Hypergrace. He believes you not only can go on sinning in habitual sin (but that you shouldn't) but that everybody does. He says 1 Corinthians 6:9-10, Galatians 5:19-21, and Ephesians 5:5-6 don't apply to Christians because of God's grace. Ask him.
I'm confident the denials will come. And you won't be able to see that in his posts if I link you to them, but the rest of us know and can see what he posts.
I'm confident the denials will come. And you won't be able to see that in his posts if I link you to them, but the rest of us know and can see what he posts.